Q: What insurance coverage is recommended / needed?

[Swiss1960]

Dear All

I am currently looking into various insurance options for my retirement and I am comparing none (meaning self-insured) vs. accident only vs. sickness only vs. accident and sickness. Definitely inpatient only, no outpatient option.

My problem is that I do not know what annual or case-based coverage I would need to look at. So I trie to find out what various worst case scenarios can cost in order to make a more educated decision about future insurance. Following cases I think would be most costly (and are within my risk parameters):

- cancer: 9 month chemo and/or radiation treatment

- heart attack with bypass surgery

- heart transplantation (yep, really worst case)

- accident with 10 days in ICU and 2 month in normal inpatient care

Can anybody give me ballpark figures what such events would cost? Given the fact that I might not in a position to decide myself, what difference would it make from government hospital to private hospitals like Bangkok Hospital Pattaya (which I know is expensive)?

Or are there any websites with recommendations for minimum coverage in Thailand where I could see what those recommendations are based on?

Thank you all in advance

[inbangkok]

The cost between government hospitals and private hospitals is huge. My advice is to go with the absolute best insurance you can afford.

[jpinx]

We had a similar thread a while back and there were as many solutions as there were posters Personally I go for accident, in-patient insurance only, but everyone's situation is different and you need to go to the hospitals (or their websites) and get the costs of treatments for you to be able to compare.

[Swiss1960]

We had a similar thread a while back and there were as many solutions as there were posters Personally I go for accident, in-patient insurance only, but everyone's situation is different and you need to go to the hospitals (or their websites) and get the costs of treatments for you to be able to compare.

Thanks... could you please point me to that thread? I did search this forum, but did not find that one... maybe I have not been searching long enough...

[jpinx]

We had a similar thread a while back and there were as many solutions as there were posters Personally I go for accident, in-patient insurance only, but everyone's situation is different and you need to go to the hospitals (or their websites) and get the costs of treatments for you to be able to compare.

Thanks... could you please point me to that thread? I did search this forum, but did not find that one... maybe I have not been searching long enough...

Here's a few.....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/777691-accident-insurance-cover-help-please/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/760731-taking-the-ultimate-gamble-with-medical-insurance/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/754559-barebones-health-insurance/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/741208-a-e-fund-co-op-for-ex-pats/

hth

[Sophon]

Since you mention that you want inpatient only coverage look carefully into what it covers. I believe that cancer treatment (which you mention as a risk scenario) would typically be covered under outpatient coverage.

Sophon

[rethaier]

Check out joining the Pattaya Expat Forum (google it) they provide a group insurance policy that will save you a ton of money.

[bigyin]

AA Insurance opposite Big C Pattaya Tai in Pattaya provide a good insurance package and are very helpful.

[Suradit69]

If I had to buy insurance, I'd go with BUPA in-patient only. The additional premium for out-patient care is pratically as much as the maximum you could ever recover from claims.

Have a friend who has gotten the go around from a claim he made to AIA after being treated at Bangkok Pattaya Hospital.

A factor to keep in mind for most insurance companies is the maximum age they will accept to initiate coverage and whether or not they will keep you on over a certain age. I think for BUPA you have to start before 55 (or maybe 60?) and keep renewing or they'll not reinstate your policy after any lapse... and they don't even publish premium rates over a certain age, but they will rise dramatically.

[Swiss1960]

Thanks a lot to all for the answers so far. You all have received well deserved "likes" from me

Unfortunately, the main question remains unanswered so far and that is: what is the annual / case cover I should have. The offers I have received so far (about a dozend) differ wildly (yes... not only widely...) from 5 Mio (BUPA highest Platinum offer) per year to something like 80Mio lifetime... and also many other things in the offers are pretty different, not only the premiums (where Thai insurances give only up to 65 / 75 but not longer) to others who say "we do not give any outlook" and not all of the offers have written (Terms and Conditions) lifetime renewal guarantee...

Am going to put all that together and then post my results on here... but that will take me some time.

In the meantime... anybody giving me an idea about her / his max coverage (per case / year / life) and why she / he choose that amount, would be highly appreciated! Also for the self-insured, would be interested to learn how much you put aside, knowing of course that that might be either to personal, as it will depend on many private factors (i.e. health issues / assets etc.)

[konying]

Lots of threads, but you find expat health insurance, ie you living overseas and what is available in Thailand does not offer time frame of the illness but rather limit to amount of money being paid per year with limits to per illness.

Good companies offer 1 MILLION dollars or EURO per year limit and higher.

I believe this would be sufficient in case of cancer or something serious.

The ones with higher premiums offer better , ie higher amount of money for room also.

Cheaper ones would offer less, so going to good private hospital would cost you extra.

Current leaders, are Bupa, April(Ambassade), these 2 are not the cheapest ones but offer most comprehensive covers.

Also look into Ambassade Expat cover, from memory it was a really good deal, but some restrictions on age.

[konying]

Thanks a lot to all for the answers so far. You all have received well deserved "likes" from me

Unfortunately, the main question remains unanswered so far and that is: what is the annual / case cover I should have. The offers I have received so far (about a dozend) differ wildly (yes... not only widely...) from 5 Mio (BUPA highest Platinum offer) per year to something like 80Mio lifetime... and also many other things in the offers are pretty different, not only the premiums (where Thai insurances give only up to 65 / 75 but not longer) to others who say "we do not give any outlook" and not all of the offers have written (Terms and Conditions) lifetime renewal guarantee...

Am going to put all that together and then post my results on here... but that will take me some time.

In the meantime... anybody giving me an idea about her / his max coverage (per case / year / life) and why she / he choose that amount, would be highly appreciated! Also for the self-insured, would be interested to learn how much you put aside, knowing of course that that might be either to personal, as it will depend on many private factors (i.e. health issues / assets etc.)

I am with Ambassade, paying 1100 euro per year and my cover is 1 million euro per year covering 100% costs of hospitalization, 12 000 baht per day for room, all cancer treatments any outpatient visits which resulted in hospitalization

Some idea for you http://en.april-international.com/sites/default/files/produits/asia-expat-cover_april_en_notice_2014.pdf

[cooked]

As you are Swiss (I suppose) you should think about getting a repatriation insurance. Even if you are so ill that you can't tell the embassy in Bangkok that you are leaving, you have the right to free treatment in Switzerland from the first day. REGA is also an option. http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/switzerland--we-look-after-our-own/32898472 .

[konying]

As you are Swiss (I suppose) you should think about getting a repatriation insurance. Even if you are so ill that you can't tell the embassy in Bangkok that you are leaving, you have the right to free treatment in Switzerland from the first day. REGA is also an option. http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/switzerland--we-look-after-our-own/32898472 .

An important fact to consider is if insurance company has local offices, brokers or agreements with local hospitals as it can turn ugly and problematic.

[PacificCrossInsurance]

The costs of hospitalisation in Thailand varies considerably - as does the standard of care, and the ‘accommodation’ cost of a hospital visit is normally shown as the room rate per night, and just like a hotel there will be variations within the one hospital for varying sizes, locations and amenities provided. This can be as low as ฿2,000 or less (where care is basic and you would expect a family member to provide your meals, linen, washing and so on), through mid range hospitals which could average ฿5-6,000 per night and up to the very top tier hospitals with well known brand names where room rates may average towards ฿10,000 per night.

Health insurance policies normally match this ‘room rate’ with a maximum amount per night, and also potentially a cap on the number of nights in a policy year for budget options. You can obtain cover that at one end of the scale is limited to ฿2,000 per night (or less) through to the other end of the spectrum which is well beyond the level likely to occur in Thailand (but necessary if you are overseas and require emergency hospital treatment). At Pacific Cross, for example, we offer four different plans which contain a total of 9 policy options with per night cover levels ranging from ฿2,000 through to ฿18,000 and obviously the premiums vary a lot between these two extremes.

Most expats are accustomed to a minimum standard of hospital care which is higher (and more expensive) than the most basic level available in Thailand; only those with social security cards are legitimately entitled to tap free health care; and few expats have the support of the extended family to make up for the very limited amenities provided in a basic hospital - so you would be wise to err on the side of caution and make sure you have cover that will allow you to stay somewhere you feel comfortable and that is a personal choice similar to your choice of accommodation when travelling.

But the old proverb ‘nobody ever complains about having too much insurance cover’ rings true and assuming you are insuring principally for an unwelcome and very serious medical situation, if you are in that position the last thing you want to be worried about is how to fund the shortfall between your cover and your actual costs, or feel you have to settle for a less than ideal treatment plan because you chose an option that had the lowest premiums.

Most health insurance policies will specify the scope and maximum level of cover/reimbursement for all the other charges that are typically incurred - operating theatre fees, surgeon’s fees, anaesthetist, prescription medication, pole dancers, etc - and obviously this varies in relation to the cost.

Similarly the provision of related benefits like accidental death, permanent disability lump sum payment; medical repatriation from overseas; funeral expenses and so on vary on each policy from very basic or not included at one end through to the most comprehensive plans which may extend to offer cover for many types of treatment or options far beyond the basic plans.

While the premium cost roughly follows the level of cover you choose, many companies offer optional exclusions to lower the premium so it can be possible to access higher benefit levels by choosing, essentially, to take some of the risk and claims cost yourself. So for example Pacific Cross on all but the most basic plans offers 20% discount if you choose to exclude Outpatient cover; and then if you choose to take an optional deductible where you pay in any one policy year the first ฿40,000; ฿100,000, ฿200,000 or ฿300,000 there is a further discount of 25%, 32.5%, 40% and 50% respectively. Over and above this a ‘no-claims’ discount can provide up to a further 20% off the remaining annual premium after 3 claim-free years.

A good way of gaining an understanding of the range of cover options available on the market is to access and/or download the 4 brochures (covering 9 plans) that are available on the Pacific Cross website at the following link: Health Insurance Downloads. This should give you a good perspective on the entire market and once you have this framework clear in your mind i will help you see where the various companies stack up in terms of what they offer and at what cost. There is also a growing bank of what we hope are useful articles relevant to the industry with an objective flavour n the ‘Blog’ section of the Pacific Cross Health Insurance website.

Finally, our suggestion is that you would benefit from some knowledgeable advice; you are setting the bar quite high for yourself getting to grips with a market and product area that is quite complex (there are more than a thousand possible combinations within our product range alone), and from time to time you may see posted here contradictory recommendations where someone may have the wrong end of the stick - with good intent - which is part and parcel of an open forum.

There are numerous reputable and knowledgeable insurance brokers who specialise in the expatriate market and are registered under Thai law (we strongly recommend you stay within the regulatory umbrella of Thai registered brokers who, unlike offshore brokerages are subject to quite rigorous compliance and control processes). If you do not have an established insurance broker relationship then AA Insurance Brokers who are the other sponsor of this forum are certainly one group that meets the criteria just mentioned.

Alternatively Pacific Cross has a direct quotation/sales team with dedicated senior expat consultants and you can obtain a no-obligation quotation by following this link: Health Insurance Quotes.

We hope this information is helpful to you.

Regards

[Swiss1960]

Running out of likes, gentlemen

thanks again, will be looking into all your information

Regards

[Swiss1960]

As you are Swiss (I suppose) you should think about getting a repatriation insurance. Even if you are so ill that you can't tell the embassy in Bangkok that you are leaving, you have the right to free treatment in Switzerland from the first day. REGA is also an option. http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/switzerland--we-look-after-our-own/32898472 .

Yep, am Swiss and member of REGA since many decades and intend to stay so... and will also sign-up and pay for the voluntary AHV/IV (government pension fund / government disability fund) and thus have the basic insurance from there..

[Swiss1960]

...

While the premium cost roughly follows the level of cover you choose, many companies offer optional exclusions to lower the premium so it can be possible to access higher benefit levels by choosing, essentially, to take some of the risk and claims cost yourself. So for example Pacific Cross on all but the most basic plans offers 20% discount if you choose to exclude Outpatient cover; and then if you choose to take an optional deductible where you pay in any one policy year the first ฿40,000; ฿100,000, ฿200,000 or ฿300,000 there is a further discount of 25%, 32.5%, 40% and 50% respectively. Over and above this a ‘no-claims’ discount can provide up to a further 20% off the remaining annual premium after 3 claim-free years.

A good way of gaining an understanding of the range of cover options available on the market is to access and/or download the 4 brochures (covering 9 plans) that are available on the Pacific Cross website at the following link: Health Insurance Downloads. This should give you a good perspective on the entire market and once you have this framework clear in your mind i will help you see where the various companies stack up in terms of what they offer and at what cost. There is also a growing bank of what we hope are useful articles relevant to the industry with an objective flavour n the ‘Blog’ section of the Pacific Cross Health Insurance website.

...

Alternatively Pacific Cross has a direct quotation/sales team with dedicated senior expat consultants and you can obtain a no-obligation quotation by following this link: Health Insurance Quotes.

We hope this information is helpful to you.

Regards

Thank you for those comprehensive information. Having had a brief look at your documents, the main question I have is

- do your General Terms and Conditions guarantee lifetime renewals?

- what about the premiums once I reach the age of 65 (your brochures do not cover ages above 65)

Regards

[cooked]

Not talking about Pacific Cross specifically, I have the impression that despite having a life long guarantee of renewals, at some time or another the premiums will get incredibly expensive. My modest premiums increased by 50% when I reached 66.

[thailand49]

Based on what you outline as to what might happen you will need something like a 1 million baht policy minimum and this would be for in-patient coverage only. Keep in mind that many policy do not cover for accidents I think Bupa 1 million does give you a 10,000 baht coverage for accident included.

I give you two examples of accidents that friends had and used Bangkok/Pattaya. Friend taken to emergency with a seizure from head injury the night before. He stayed a month, had surgery to his brain and ICU ( there are two types of ICU at BPH ) one for maximum watch and care 25,000 a night, minimum.. 15,000 baht a night. Total cost after 1 month slightly over 1 million baht.

Case two friend.. accident motorbike taken to BPH, had Internal injuries, broken ribs, stay nearly two month, majority in ICU, 1.8 million baht.

I had AIA, which is the largest but the worse of the lot... sure to have someone disagree... more power to you if you haven't been burn by them!

I've had Expat coverage (Thai by AA Insurance) Bupa, LMG, and now ACS, a french company coverage for Expats in SEA. Whatever you do select one and stay because as noted you get to a certain age one can't afford to move around since they won't accept you after a while. And you want one that doesn't cancel you if you make too many claims.

If you are 60-65 outside the clubs.. expect to pay around 60,000 baht for 1 M, to 1.5 coverage.

Someone mentioned coverage for cancer after inpatient treatment is now or might be consider outpatient? This situation the treatment after cancer for inpatient is usually covered as continuous but only the policy fine print would clarify it but of course you never get the fine print until you actually paid for the policy. So if you can get the fine prints to the policy it would be a helpful to determine the right one so you do not end up moving around.

As noted I've had nearly all the companies because I moved around after finding out their loop holes to their coverage. I've personally never used any of the policies, lucky me, but my son has had no such luck. For the last two years and I can't change now due to my age I'm with a French company ACS, this company coverage payment is paid in USD, there are two module policys, and for what I could afford I got the lower one coverage at $500,000 USD inpatients which translate into exchange rate 30x1 gives me 15 million baht of coverage in theory. The premium I paid for this coverage is slightly less than what I paid to Bupa for their 1 million. In theory I'm getting 14 million baht more coverage for basically the same money or Baht. Expect no matter who covers you at premium increase each year betwen 2500/4000 baht a year regardless if you use it on not. The policy does not cover me for accidents unless I'm inpatient. So I got a accident policy from AA Insurance for 100,000 baht for a premium of 2,000 baht.

Insurance in Thailand is a mine field so good luck? Hospital like BPH, as noted and from my experience charge more for Expat and foreigners than Thais and they are no different from many of the other private hospitals in the area. A example... I went to do visits at other privates down the road as a non-insured and the room charge and nurse care was the same if not higher. One adminitrator told me cheaper but not enough for me to take a 25 plus KM drive to your hospital.

In the end, do not just shop for price for policy do enough research on the hospital so you can decide what level of care you might want to except for what you can afford.

For all your outpatients if possible do not use the hospital like BPH for every little thing like flu or colds, you can go to clinics etc... without giving out your name etc..insurance companies can use this information against you to not cover and claim it is a pre-exist condition that you fail to inform and not pay? This opinion is not hearsay but from a first hand experience!

You can basically use the website ad here on Thaivisa compare save 78%... which I have and like most ads in Thailand if is all false advertisement no way you are going to save 78%!

Good luck...

[jpinx]

The age limit is the real problem. One can find policies to suit everything if you're about 45-50 when first applying, but a first application when over 65 or so is going to be eye-watering. If you're scooped off the road into an ambulance, there's not much chance to tell the driver which hospital you want. They seem to operate in areas and will whisk you straight to the hospital that pays them the most. Getting out of that hospital and into a cheaper option is not going to happen. The best care costs the most money -- sometimes the not-so-good care costs just as much. If you live in the catchment of a "good" hospital that you want to use - go directly to them and ask if they have a policy you can take out that will ensure you end up there. If you're not so fussy - go with the government hospital, some of them are apparently quite good, and it'll certainly be cheaper.

[thailand49]

The age limit is the real problem. One can find policies to suit everything if you're about 45-50 when first applying, but a first application when over 65 or so is going to be eye-watering. If you're scooped off the road into an ambulance, there's not much chance to tell the driver which hospital you want. They seem to operate in areas and will whisk you straight to the hospital that pays them the most. Getting out of that hospital and into a cheaper option is not going to happen. The best care costs the most money -- sometimes the not-so-good care costs just as much. If you live in the catchment of a "good" hospital that you want to use - go directly to them and ask if they have a policy you can take out that will ensure you end up there. If you're not so fussy - go with the government hospital, some of them are apparently quite good, and it'll certainly be cheaper.

This answers is from a true story!

If injured and unable to speak they will not take you to the most expensive hospital especially in Pattaya. The most expensive hospital like BPH, although they can harp it is not true all they want if you end up at their doorstep with NO proof of insurance or ability to pay they will find a way to send you off to a Government one.

What you can do, is make sure you have identification whatever it can be. Whatever your reason for being here you can go to your nearby Kodak shop with your passport and have it copy and laminate a credit card size for you You can also carry your insurance card and the hospital card in your wallet or carry case. Sure what if you forget your wallet which can happen and you are in a accident and can't speak.. What I do is I make copies of everything and place one in my car glove and motorbike compartment. Even in Thailand someone will look through your stuff and if they see insurance etc... you will most likely end up at BPH. case in point is #2 in earlier post.. buddy dead drunk on motorbike.. they got his wallet and saw a card where he stayed, called the manager the manager confirm his stay and ability to pay the bill off he went to BPH, cost for near two month stay ICU 1.8 million. His policy was for 1 million he cough up 800,000 baht 30x1 = $26,000 USD.

Do not assume you can't be moved! true story again! If you are staying at BPH, and you are nearly tab in your insurance max.. if able! you can have a friend etc... arrange for your long term care once you are better and they have handle on your case that moving you will not kill you, Basically you are fixed but can take care of yourself and need to be in a hospital to fully recover you can arrange to be moved to a government or cheaper hospital like Sattahip Goverment etc.. for much less cost to stretch out your coverage they can not stop you. All you do is contact the insurance to stop payment on a specific day of release and get authorization that you are moving. Believe me they will... BPH would just ask you to sign off on liability. You pay the transport yourself or if you are near broke get a songthaw throw you in the back.

[thailand49]

...

While the premium cost roughly follows the level of cover you choose, many companies offer optional exclusions to lower the premium so it can be possible to access higher benefit levels by choosing, essentially, to take some of the risk and claims cost yourself. So for example Pacific Cross on all but the most basic plans offers 20% discount if you choose to exclude Outpatient cover; and then if you choose to take an optional deductible where you pay in any one policy year the first ฿40,000; ฿100,000, ฿200,000 or ฿300,000 there is a further discount of 25%, 32.5%, 40% and 50% respectively. Over and above this a ‘no-claims’ discount can provide up to a further 20% off the remaining annual premium after 3 claim-free years.

A good way of gaining an understanding of the range of cover options available on the market is to access and/or download the 4 brochures (covering 9 plans) that are available on the Pacific Cross website at the following link: Health Insurance Downloads. This should give you a good perspective on the entire market and once you have this framework clear in your mind i will help you see where the various companies stack up in terms of what they offer and at what cost. There is also a growing bank of what we hope are useful articles relevant to the industry with an objective flavour n the ‘Blog’ section of the Pacific Cross Health Insurance website.

...

Alternatively Pacific Cross has a direct quotation/sales team with dedicated senior expat consultants and you can obtain a no-obligation quotation by following this link: Health Insurance Quotes.

We hope this information is helpful to you.

Regards

Thank you for those comprehensive information. Having had a brief look at your documents, the main question I have is

- do your General Terms and Conditions guarantee lifetime renewals?

- what about the premiums once I reach the age of 65 (your brochures do not cover ages above 65)

Regards

That is the million dollar question? Personally I have been burned more than once and i personally again from experience do not trust any of these insurance companies. The key burn is something we know all about " preexisting condition " They can use this and cancel you, sure someone is going to say NO you can get a lawyer.etc etc... get real here in Thailand. If you have millions sure fight but if you have that kind of money just self insure yourself.

As for why 65 years of age... reality check... you are lucky they take you even without any pre-existing condition at 60 year.. It is called Age discrimination! as for 65 the stats you got one foot in the grave and that is not only in Thailand they are thinking. If you are a American, get 65 medicare whether you live here or not. Nothing to brag about to the government... fix yourself here get you butt on a airplane and die at home.

[Swiss1960]

...

While the premium cost roughly follows the level of cover you choose, many companies offer optional exclusions to lower the premium so it can be possible to access higher benefit levels by choosing, essentially, to take some of the risk and claims cost yourself. So for example Pacific Cross on all but the most basic plans offers 20% discount if you choose to exclude Outpatient cover; and then if you choose to take an optional deductible where you pay in any one policy year the first ฿40,000; ฿100,000, ฿200,000 or ฿300,000 there is a further discount of 25%, 32.5%, 40% and 50% respectively. Over and above this a ‘no-claims’ discount can provide up to a further 20% off the remaining annual premium after 3 claim-free years.

A good way of gaining an understanding of the range of cover options available on the market is to access and/or download the 4 brochures (covering 9 plans) that are available on the Pacific Cross website at the following link: Health Insurance Downloads. This should give you a good perspective on the entire market and once you have this framework clear in your mind i will help you see where the various companies stack up in terms of what they offer and at what cost. There is also a growing bank of what we hope are useful articles relevant to the industry with an objective flavour n the ‘Blog’ section of the Pacific Cross Health Insurance website.

...

Alternatively Pacific Cross has a direct quotation/sales team with dedicated senior expat consultants and you can obtain a no-obligation quotation by following this link: Health Insurance Quotes.

We hope this information is helpful to you.

Regards

Thank you for those comprehensive information. Having had a brief look at your documents, the main question I have is

- do your General Terms and Conditions guarantee lifetime renewals?

- what about the premiums once I reach the age of 65 (your brochures do not cover ages above 65)

Regards

That is the million dollar question? Personally I have been burned more than once and i personally again from experience do not trust any of these insurance companies. The key burn is something we know all about " preexisting condition " They can use this and cancel you, sure someone is going to say NO you can get a lawyer.etc etc... get real here in Thailand. If you have millions sure fight but if you have that kind of money just self insure yourself.

As for why 65 years of age... reality check... you are lucky they take you even without any pre-existing condition at 60 year.. It is called Age discrimination! as for 65 the stats you got one foot in the grave and that is not only in Thailand they are thinking. If you are a American, get 65 medicare whether you live here or not. Nothing to brag about to the government... fix yourself here get you butt on a airplane and die at home.

Thank you for your answers, I appreciate your thoughts. Let me just give you few comments:

What you call "Age Discrimination" is what the insurance companies call "Risk Based Premium Adjustments". And while I do not say that your expression is wrong and while I do not want to defend insurance companies, it is also fact that the older you get, the more likely you are to produce costs for the insurance company. Age based premiums do not only exist in Thailand, they exist worldwide, also in Switzerland. And for not accepting new policies for people over 60y of age... at the end of the day, an insurance company is a profit organization and as long as there is no law that they must accept everybody (like here in Switzerland for the government regulated basic health insurance), they are of course free to say "no" based on the risk profile they have for you.

btw.. age discrimination exists in other insurances also... for example drivers insurance in Europe... the younger you are (new drivers), the higher your premiums... and if you happen to be born with the wrong passport, i.e. from ex Jugoslavia... +20% on the premium just for your passport...

I guess with regards to this "age discrimination" and the possibility to be kicked out when you reach a certain age or when you request payments... for sure you have to read the fine print in the GToC and see what cancellation reasons the company has.. and you might be on the safer side for legal claims, if you have an international insurer with HQ outside Thailand, because they might be better regulated than within Thailand.

[thailand49]

I do not disagree with anything you have said it all. I use the word age discrimination you called it Risk based and it is obvious if you are older you will have most likely be using it more and I fully understand as for car insurance why younger drivers pay more etc. believe me I get it.

Based on your explanation you have answer your own question as to why they do not offer insurance 65 and up! as I noted, you got one foot in the grave! The Risk based is basically a legal term to decide who lives and who dies by insurance companies? it all depends on how you look at things and what insurance profit levels should be but of course that is another subject and debate.

Just remember your questions, it is all related to Thailand and what you think and feel about the west / swiss throw that out the window if you are going to live here? It is a whole new ballgame here and sooner you understand the word discrimination the better off you will be? Welcome / Enjoy but you have not seen anything yet, buckle up for a ride of your life.

[poweratradio]

Check out joining the Pattaya Expat Forum (google it) they provide a group insurance policy that will save you a ton of money.

Is there a similar group policy with a Chaing Mai Expats

[PacificCrossInsurance]

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...

While the premium cost roughly follows the level of cover you choose, many companies offer optional exclusions to lower the premium so it can be possible to access higher benefit levels by choosing, essentially, to take some of the risk and claims cost yourself. So for example Pacific Cross on all but the most basic plans offers 20% discount if you choose to exclude Outpatient cover; and then if you choose to take an optional deductible where you pay in any one policy year the first ฿40,000; ฿100,000, ฿200,000 or ฿300,000 there is a further discount of 25%, 32.5%, 40% and 50% respectively. Over and above this a ‘no-claims’ discount can provide up to a further 20% off the remaining annual premium after 3 claim-free years.

A good way of gaining an understanding of the range of cover options available on the market is to access and/or download the 4 brochures (covering 9 plans) that are available on the Pacific Cross website at the following link: Health Insurance Downloads. This should give you a good perspective on the entire market and once you have this framework clear in your mind i will help you see where the various companies stack up in terms of what they offer and at what cost. There is also a growing bank of what we hope are useful articles relevant to the industry with an objective flavour n the ‘Blog’ section of the Pacific Cross Health Insurance website.

...

Alternatively Pacific Cross has a direct quotation/sales team with dedicated senior expat consultants and you can obtain a no-obligation quotation by following this link: Health Insurance Quotes.

We hope this information is helpful to you.

Regards

Thank you for those comprehensive information. Having had a brief look at your documents, the main question I have is

- do your General Terms and Conditions guarantee lifetime renewals?

- what about the premiums once I reach the age of 65 (your brochures do not cover ages above 65)

Regards

Yes, with Pacific Cross Health Insurance lifetime renewals are guaranteed, and there is no arbitrary maximum age for new applications - regardless of the age of a new applicant each case is taken on its own merits.

There is a common view that health insurers don't want clients past a certain age and raise the premiums to a level that is designed to discourage people from renewing at certain points. We can't speak for other companies but in the case of Pacific Cross this is definitely not the case. We carefully price our premiums at each 5-yearly age band to be an accurate reflection of the anticipated claims costs and all other component parts of the pricing equation so that each of these age band groups are neutral in terms of the expected margins. If we were to do it any other way the result would be one age group would be subsidising the premiums of another, and this, we believe, is the first step in losing touch with the market realities and can lead to all sorts of unwelcome consequences.

To illustrate this point here is a chart from the American Society of Actuaries which shows the total cost of health care in the US by age. This only goes to 65 but the trend is easy to see, and regardless of the country the general shape of the graph is similar. The summary is that children under 5 on the average have a lot of health costs incurred; this drops dramatically by the teens and the cost by age climbs gently until around the age of 50 after which the annual increase starts to become more pronounced which is shown by the steepening of the line. When extrapolated up to the age 100 that curve continues - i.e. it is not a straight line with the cost of health care increasing by the same amount each year but it is an exponential curve where each year the cost increases by a higher percentage than the year before. [Quiz for today: Is this (a) a parabola, ( a hyperbola, or © it depends who is asking.]

(The reason the female line diverges in the middle is related to childbirth).

Now we show an illustration of a mid-level health insurance plan (ranked in cost as #4 out of 9). For the record it is our Lifestyle Series 'Premier' plan which has no restrictions on hospitals, a limit per claim of 5 million baht and lifetime 20 million baht; daily hospital room allowance of 8,000 baht with no limit on the number of days per year; worldwide emergency cover and evacuation; and for most costs like surgeon, anaesthetist, etc the plan covers normal and customary charges. We have taken the annual premium cost for each age band from 0-90 - there is no allowance for any group, family or no-claim discounts but we have used what is very common which is the exclusion of Outpatient cover, and in addition to this exclusion we show firstly the annual premium with an optional deductible of 40,000 baht and in the final column what is the cost when a deductible of 300,000 baht is chosen.

The optional deductible amounts going up to 300,000 are designed to make the premiums more affordable for older customers who may consider they could fund 300,000 baht if required but 3 million for a serious health event would be a real problem. And for the record these voluntary deductibles are what you as the client agree to pay within each year of the policy - so if you are unlucky enough to experience two separate events in the same policy year, you only are expected to pay this deductible amount one time.

These are the current rates and are not guaranteed - and provided for general illustration purposes only and not as a quotation or recommendation for any particular individual or circumstance. This information isn't designed to replace the need for individual advice and recommendation by an Insurance Broker licensed by the Thai regulator or from the direct sales consulting team at Pacific Cross and it's definitely not our desire to get into specific details in a general and open forum like this. But we are aware this is a topic of interest to many readers of the insurance forum and as a result have given some more detail rather than beating around the bush ... we hope this clears up some questions.

You can obtain personalised recommendations and a quotation from an Insurance Broker who is licensed to operate within the Kingdom of Thailand (there are very real dangers related to dealing with unlicensed offshore brokerages); or by requesting a quote from Pacific Cross Health Insurance directly.

Regards

[Swiss1960]

Dear All, dear PacificCross Insurance

Thank you all for your contribution to my questions. It was most informative for me to read all your statements and specially, I would like to thank PacificCross for showing the above premium table which goes up to the age of 90.

I guess it was not the easiest decision to give those premiums which show raises of almost 40% / 50% when one crosses the age of 66 / 71... so again, thank you for being open and informative, I assume that many others who see this thread will also appreciate your openness. It is the first time that I have seen a premium table going further than 70/75 (and I have asked for quotes from many companies in the last weeks) and for that I really want to thank you.

Dear Mods: Since for me and for now, I have received the main information I was looking for, I do kindly ask you to close the thread, before somebody comes to the idea of bashing around those premiums... We should appreciate the many information given by PacificCross and not discuss whether or not the raises are justified or not... at the end of the day, it is everybody's decision to sign up or not based on the information given.

[theoldgit]

I note the request above, but this helpful information might well be useful to other members, so I think it's best to leave it open.

[Swiss1960]

I note the request above, but this helpful information might well be useful to other members, so I think it's best to leave it open.

I can live with that also - up to you