17 foreign ‘English teachers’ arrested in Chiang Mai for working illegally

[lostinisaan]

I was born and brought up in Bath.

Although my tongue is firmly in my cheek, let,'s agree to disagree?

You ain't a Bristolian..........Yet you run down my birthplace..........

I feel the same way about Thai bashers .

Here we go. Two guys who're born in the same country.

My point being is how can foreigner in general accept each other in a country like Thailand, if there's so much hate going on?

I personally don't care if somebody's from Edinburgh,Manchester, New York, or Philadelphia. It all comes down who the person is.

I've met Trans quite a few times and he's definitely a nice bloke. Does it really matter that much where somebody was born?

But to get back to topic, would it be legal to be a Moderator, or Administrator of an online forum, without having a work permit?

The guys in CM just had bad luck, that's all. or somebody informed them.....

i don't even want to know how many people here are teaching "illegal", or doing other stuff that's against the law.

Regarding Americans, okay I find it sad that all British movies have to be subtitled that they're understood by Americans, but most people on this planet do speak American English.

English, as well as German, are "word borrowing" languages. Do all Brits really know that English is actually a Germanic language?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_languages

[JAG]

I was born and brought up in Bath.

Although my tongue is firmly in my cheek, let,'s agree to disagree?

You ain't a Bristolian..........Yet you run down my birthplace..........

Well yes, that's rather the point!

If it worries you that much, although it was meant as a joke, and certainly no hatred was involved (lostinissan), I will apologize and withdraw the comment.

[LannaGuy]

Here we go again..

Only Brits are native English speakers.

They invented the language.

They own the language.

It's just a shame that most people can not understand the language the way the Brits speak it.

and, oh yes, the Brits are a pretty small percentage of the people on the planet who do speak English....

GOD SAVE THE BRITiSH !

Maybe it is time to change the name of the language and put a stop to these foolish claims??

lol

get it right old chap? the English speak English and the 'Brits' as you call them are Scottish, Welsh and NI's in one lump and many of them do NOT speak English well

[willyumiii]

I was born and brought up in Bath.

Although my tongue is firmly in my cheek, let,'s agree to disagree?

You ain't a Bristolian..........Yet you run down my birthplace..........

I feel the same way about Thai bashers .

Here we go. Two guys who're born in the same country.

My point being is how can foreigner in general accept each other in a country like Thailand, if there's so much hate going on?

I personally don't care if somebody's from Edinburgh,Manchester, New York, or Philadelphia. It all comes down who the person is.

I've met Trans quite a few times and he's definitely a nice bloke. Does it really matter that much where somebody was born?

But to get back to topic, would it be legal to be a Moderator, or Administrator of an online forum, without having a work permit?

The guys in CM just had bad luck, that's all. or somebody informed them.....

i don't even want to know how many people here are teaching "illegal", or doing other stuff that's against the law.

Regarding Americans, okay I find it sad that all British movies have to be subtitled that they're understood by Americans, but most people on this planet do speak American English.

English, as well as German, are "word borrowing" languages. Do all Brits really know that English is actually a Germanic language?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_languages

Excellent post...you nailed it!

I am American ( West Coast ) and even have difficulty understand people from some parts of America at times.

But with a little effort and concentration, I can understand any English speaker,.... without subtitles!

The arrogance of some who think they are the only ones who speak the language is a little irritating at times, but I guess we all need something to be proud of. l

I think what we all need to be aware of is that when we use our own localized slang, other English speakers get lost, and slang should not be presented to English language students as part of the English language.

When I said you "nailed it" I believe that is a localized slang term....but I meant it.....

As far as foreigners not getting along in Thailand, I must admit that I almost exclusively have contact with Thais, and the longer I am here in Thailand, the more difficult it is to relate to other foreigners, especially those who reject and do not respect Thai ways and culture.

As a result, I do not go out of my way to meet or communicate with other foreigners, even from my home country.

Again..good post..

Thanks

[stevenl]

Here we go again..

Only Brits are native English speakers.

They invented the language.

They own the language.

It's just a shame that most people can not understand the language the way the Brits speak it.

and, oh yes, the Brits are a pretty small percentage of the people on the planet who do speak English....

GOD SAVE THE BRITiSH !

Maybe it is time to change the name of the language and put a stop to these foolish claims??

lol

Well I'm English, and horror of horrors, I teach the language. I would be the first to agree that Americans, Australians, Kiwis, and Canadians amongst others are native speakers. I know Philippinos, Indians and Dutchmen who speak (and teach) excellent English. I know Englishmen (and others) who butcher the language. Speaking it well enough to teach it is not dependant on birth, as some contributors to this forum have demonstrated.

No we don't own the language, and certainly as a living language it will develop differently in different parts of the world. We did invent it, so give us the credit for that. Many of us are delighted that so many other nations have adopted it.

As for God, well as he is almost certainly an Englishman, no doubt he will save us!

What makes you say God is male?

[JAG]

Umm, no I'm not biting, not even a nibble!

[fey]

Anyone know what type of work permit they could apply for in order to work 'online'?

if the money is coming from within thailand you need a standard work permit.

they were paid by a thai company - need permit

if the money is generated outside the country - dont need permit

[The Deerhunter]

Can't manage to catch those who possess/make/sell fake passports and engage in people trafficking but nab a few would-be TEFLERS.

They seem to have caught quite a few big ones doing that just lately. And one arrest was just one guy with about 300 passports? Does it suit you to ignore that?

[Chupup]

Just don't do work without a permit and all will b well, and that means teaching 1 on 1 for a friends child no excuses

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

The G5 plus one Irish dude...

[cgcgcg]

The school should be fined for employing them!!!

[willyumiii]

The school should be fined for employing them!!!

and you should be fined for such a lame comment on a topic you obviously did not read!

They were not employed by a school.

They were working online, for a bogus "online language school, that doesn't really exist in Thailand.

Give us a break.

and thanks for the valuable input!

[ravip]

If you live in Thailand, use their infrastructure and their ATM, then taxes should go to Thailand. That will reduce your net income - by far not as much as in Europe -, but you get free access to Thai infrastructure in return. What's the problem?

Maybe if they would give people a proper work permit, for all types of jobs, those people would pay taxes.

Honestly, this isn't a difficult problem to solve.

So all countries hand out work permits freely?

[Peabody]

"The remaining foreigners had passports and valid work permits but were in breach of work conditions."

I ould like to see more details about this statement. Were their permits for another company/job/location?

[Soutpeel]

Anyone know what type of work permit they could apply for in order to work 'online'?

if the money is coming from within thailand you need a standard work permit.

they were paid by a thai company - need permit

if the money is generated outside the country - dont need permit

And no cigar...

where or even if someone is being paid has absolutely no relevance under Thai law as regards the Work permit rules, eg Volunteers even though they are not being paid require a WP, so your whole premise is incorrect...

[mca]

Here we go again..

Only Brits are native English speakers.

They invented the language.

They own the language.

It's just a shame that most people can not understand the language the way the Brits speak it.

and, oh yes, the Brits are a pretty small percentage of the people on the planet who do speak English....

GOD SAVE THE BRITiSH !

Maybe it is time to change the name of the language and put a stop to these foolish claims??

lol

Well I'm English, and horror of horrors, I teach the language. I would be the first to agree that Americans, Australians, Kiwis, and Canadians amongst others are native speakers. I know Philippinos, Indians and Dutchmen who speak (and teach) excellent English. I know Englishmen (and others) who butcher the language. Speaking it well enough to teach it is not dependant on birth, as some contributors to this forum have demonstrated.

No we don't own the language, and certainly as a living language it will develop differently in different parts of the world. We did invent it, so give us the credit for that. Many of us are delighted that so many other nations have adopted it.

As for God, well as he is almost certainly an Englishman, no doubt he will save us!

What makes you say God is male?

His big white beard sort of gives the game away

[rwdrwdrwd]

Obviously you've never been to East Anglia.

[aaacorp]

So fun to read all the comments from the "legal workers" and "honest company owners" who in 90% of the case work for companies owned by nominees...

When you rant about someone be sure to not being on the wrong border of the fence too...bunch of "smartasses" here who should just shut up and look at their own situation before spitting on other ones

[Praematura]

Saw a new low last night in Jomtien. Farang driving the motorbike of one of those Somtam carts with Thai lady sitting in the adjacent side cart/food preparation area. I thought I'd seen everything until last night.

[micmichd]

Guess you've seen a Thai - Farang couple / family where Farang helps his Thai lady a little bit. You don't need a working permit to drive a motorbike, you need a driving licence.

[hiller]

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The Thai policy regarding English teachers would be a prime example if someone asked what it is in the mindset here that supports the concept that "when logic meets culture, culture wins."

No one want people crossing their border to take jobs away, be it physical labor or rocket science.

That being said, skilled English speakers are in very, very short supply in the Kingdom, and one might think that attracting and supporting teaching this valuable skill would create a special exception to a general rule.

If we were to gather 100 Thais who speak perfect English, 15 would be "born Hi So" who went abroad to college. Another 35 would be "came from a village - now "Hi So"... meaning those incredibly beautiful Sukhumvit 5 Star girls with the ultra rich Foreign partner.

45 more would be Bar Girls, and I mean the high price spread.

The last 5, hard working college students and business owners who really stuggled but did master the language.

Guess what they all have in common?

NONE OF THEM HAVE ANY INTEREST IN 30,000 THB TO TEACH ENGLISH.

Having lived in Pattaya for a number of years, 15+, could anyone explain to me why the Russian prostitutes have work permits, as nurses? When caught they are fined B500 and released back to the disco or beach walk.

Their Russian pimps, who follow them and make sure payment is received for services, apparently work under the work permit held by the girl.

How many, so called, property hustlers here have work permits? Why would they need one? No Real Estate laws are enforced here and it is always buyer beware.

The entire work permit law is a scam as most holders got theirs with a healthy tea money payment. Got one of those once and after the first year decided I didn't need it. Got busted within 30 days for working outside the limits of what was outlined on the work permit. That is a whole other story.

Definition of work in Thailand is vague at best. Performance of work is nonexistent.

[hiller]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Anyone know what type of work permit they could apply for in order to work 'online'?

if the money is coming from within thailand you need a standard work permit.

they were paid by a thai company - need permit

if the money is generated outside the country - dont need permit

And no cigar...

where or even if someone is being paid has absolutely no relevance under Thai law as regards the Work permit rules, eg Volunteers even though they are not being paid require a WP, so your whole premise is incorrect...

Well said and correct.

[AZBill]

Would have been easy and cheap to comply. It's their country, their rules. Sorry!

[hiller]

There is one rule of law in Thailand that never changes. The law is what the BIB says it is when he walks in the door. Pay the fine then. It will not get any cheaper than it is at that point in time.

[No Apologist]

Bad move.

They were not committing a crime, they were offering a service that Thais can't offer.

They were taking nobody's job.

Just another excuse to say how bad these foreigners are..................

I know, you can't work without a WP, but at this instance they were harming nobody.

I can't beleive I'm saying this, but I completely agree with you, Costas.

[Tomtomtom69]

So they were teaching online courses to people in China.....no one in China able to do this?

A better question would be...why aren't they living in China and teaching English there? A bit odd to be teaching foreigners (Chinese) from a third country (Thailand).

First time I've heard of this.

[Soutpeel]

So they were teaching online courses to people in China.....no one in China able to do this?

A better question would be...why aren't they living in China and teaching English there? A bit odd to be teaching foreigners (Chinese) from a third country (Thailand).

First time I've heard of this.

the answer is very simple, because one suspects most of them wouldn't be accepted for any form of long term visa in China to live there, fact is its far too easy to acquire visa's which allow people to stay in country long term without any specific "justifiable" reason or visible means of support in Thailand.

Make it harder to get long term visa's/extensions in Thailand and this sort of thing will become virtually non-existent, simply because the people doing it will not be allowed to stay in country long term.

[jspill]

So they were teaching online courses to people in China.....no one in China able to do this?

A better question would be...why aren't they living in China and teaching English there? A bit odd to be teaching foreigners (Chinese) from a third country (Thailand).

First time I've heard of this.

the answer is very simple, because one suspects most of them wouldn't be accepted for any form of long term visa in China to live there, fact is its far too easy to acquire visa's which allow people to stay in country long term without any specific "justifiable" reason or visible means of support in Thailand.

Make it harder to get long term visa's/extensions in Thailand and this sort of thing will become virtually non-existent, simply because the people doing it will not be allowed to stay in country long term.

Common sense reason is it's just a lot more fun to live in Thailand while working online on something location-independent. It isn't odd at all.

Thailand is a way more popular destination - doesn't matter the type of online work is, people will do it here if location doesn't matter (which it doesn't for Skype teaching). Presumably they prefer private Skype tuition to being in a school - higher pay and no need to crowd control a class.

Soutpeel assumes these teachers wanted to stay long term, we don't know that at all, they may have just been on a gap year or backpacking for a few months and looking for part time cash. Actually China is pretty easy, 90 days on arrival and repeat that with border runs no questions asked.

Anyway, don't hold your breath waiting for it to be 'harder to get long term visa's [sic]' in Thailand.

[Godfree2]

So they were teaching online courses to people in China.....no one in China able to do this?

A better question would be...why aren't they living in China and teaching English there? A bit odd to be teaching foreigners (Chinese) from a third country (Thailand).

First time I've heard of this.

the answer is very simple, because one suspects most of them wouldn't be accepted for any form of long term visa in China to live there, fact is its far too easy to acquire visa's which allow people to stay in country long term without any specific "justifiable" reason or visible means of support in Thailand.

Make it harder to get long term visa's/extensions in Thailand and this sort of thing will become virtually non-existent, simply because the people doing it will not be allowed to stay in country long term.

What criteria are you talking about? Flash 100,000 baht cash on arrival, bank statements, letter from Thai sponsor (lol)?

The system is currently setup to allow the following types of tourists: sexpats and pensioners. Anyone wanting to make money in any form other than teaching English will have a hard time.

The reason is that the authorities are still unable to comprehend the internet or any work that is done on the internet. They probably think it is a series of vacuum tubes like at the bank drive thru.

Look what happened with the PunSpace raid in Chiangmai -- the policed believed the dozen or so farang were inside working for the owner of the business. The idea that some of them were online making more money for themselves than anyone in a 3 mile radius was unfathomable.

[beau thai]

What seems ludicrous to me is that the thai-owned business derived its income from chinese nationals in China, some of which was paid to english speaking farang in wages, to be spent here.

The salaries were low enough that any thai who could speak english well enough to teach it, would not sit behind a computer in an office, to earn such small money. So they were not 'stealing' thai jobs. I believe there were also plans to set up a residential school here for Chinese to stay for 3 months studying, bringing in more cash from China.

It seems to me that if 'the rules' are thoughtlessly applied without looking at the bigger picture, the increasing number of businesses that choose Vietnam instead, as it is business- friendly, will grow apace.

Thailand's major export markets of rice and sugar are both depressed and Government keeps revising down this year's economic growth number-which is probably still an over-estimate.

Time to start joining up the dots.....

And now China has just agreed a US$45billion deal with Pakistan that will see road and rail links through to the Indian Ocean. Seems a roundabout kind of route but the Chinese are far smarter than I am, and presumably some trade that could have come via Thailand, will be lost.

Not sure if we have an effective 'Department for Economic Development' here- if not, we need one. If yes, they need to step up to the plate.....