Fat people live longer says health Professor Timothy Olds

[AZBill]

I live in central PA where everyone seems to be overweight and eat nothing but calorie rich diets. Almost impossible to find any kind of healthy fare at a restaurant in my area. Yet the one thing you see is a lot of very old people. If you read the obits here you rarely see someone under 80 and many many in their 90s. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather eat healthy and feel and look good but it sure makes you wonder.

[Jingthing]

More relating to the O.P. about the myths that overweight is necessarily less healthful:

One of the principles driving the $61 billion weight-loss industries is the notion that fat is inherently unhealthy and that it’s better, health-wise, to be thin, no matter what you have to do to get there. But a growing body of research is beginning to question this paradigm. Does obesity cause ill health, result from it, both, or neither? Does weight loss lead to a longer, healthier life for most people?

Studies from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention repeatedly find the lowest mortality rates among people whose body mass index puts them in the “overweight” and “mildly obese” categories. And recent research suggests that losing weight doesn’t actually improve health biomarkers such as blood pressure, fasting glucose, or triglyceride levels for most people.

So why, then, are we so deeply invested in treatments that not only fail to do what they’re supposed to—make people thinner and healthier—but often actively makes people fatter, sicker, and more miserable?

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2015/03/diets_do_not_work_the_thin_evidence_that_losing_weight_makes_you_healthier.html

[h90]

I live in central PA where everyone seems to be overweight and eat nothing but calorie rich diets. Almost impossible to find any kind of healthy fare at a restaurant in my area. Yet the one thing you see is a lot of very old people. If you read the obits here you rarely see someone under 80 and many many in their 90s. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather eat healthy and feel and look good but it sure makes you wonder.

Well these people might have been slim most of their life.

In my home country (after we lost the second worldwar) the people are getting fat now, but my father had to eat raw potatoes as the doctors told that the Vitamin C in the raw potatoes is more important than the poison.

My mother came from a well off family so she got like once a week sausage on the bread they gave her for school. And the other kids were jealous.

Now this generation lives long even they are fat now. But it doesn't mean that the people who are fat at young age will live long.

Beside that, it could be also that people who enjoy life live longer. They may live shorter for their overweight but longer for being happy and enjoying.

And overweight....if you are 1.70 tall and should have 60-64 kg as male (that is what I learned 30 years ago), you may live long and happy with 80, 90 kg. But not with 120 kg.

[mommysboy]

More relating to the O.P. about the myths that overweight is necessarily less healthful:

One of the principles driving the $61 billion weight-loss industries is the notion that fat is inherently unhealthy and that it’s better, health-wise, to be thin, no matter what you have to do to get there. But a growing body of research is beginning to question this paradigm. Does obesity cause ill health, result from it, both, or neither? Does weight loss lead to a longer, healthier life for most people?

Studies from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention repeatedly find the lowest mortality rates among people whose body mass index puts them in the “overweight” and “mildly obese” categories. And recent research suggests that losing weight doesn’t actually improve health biomarkers such as blood pressure, fasting glucose, or triglyceride levels for most people.

So why, then, are we so deeply invested in treatments that not only fail to do what they’re supposed to—make people thinner and healthier—but often actively makes people fatter, sicker, and more miserable?

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2015/03/diets_do_not_work_the_thin_evidence_that_losing_weight_makes_you_healthier.html

Well that's a really interesting posting as CDC research is much more likely accurate than not.

If right, still an assumption, we can say without fear of contradiction that diet really is not so important at all in overall health, and that the only way people can effect key biomarkers is by being fit and active, with the added bonus of appearing healthier too. I for one welcome the final demolition of the idea you can eat yourself fit.

It does not necessarily imply that it is healthy to be overweight during younger years, but that certainly it is better to carry a few extra pounds as we move in to old age. That makes sense and many family doctors have been saying this for years.

Note, it could just be that medical intervention is good at managing the chronic health conditions that overweight people tend to suffer and would otherwise kill earlier.

And being overweight in later years tends to imply that males in particular are being well nursed.

So I would say the major predictors of longevity are:

1. Genes.

2. Medical care and family environment.

3. Luck

4. Activity and fitness.

5. Diet (most likely fibre).

[mommysboy]

Perhaps avoiding alcohol, cigarettes, and recreational drugs should also be in that list too, probably alongside luck.

[h90]

Perhaps avoiding alcohol, cigarettes, and recreational drugs should also be in that list too, probably alongside luck.

I don't think so......

No question if you drink a bottle whiskey + 2 packs of Marlboro per day it won't do good.

But small amounts in a happy life might be better than avoiding everything fun and living frustrated.....

[mommysboy]

You see cigarettes and alcohol tyically are not consumed in healthy amounts. In all my years on the fags I never met anyone who just had 2 or 3 a day.

[Jingthing]

You see cigarettes and alcohol tyically are not consumed in healthy amounts. In all my years on the fags I never met anyone who just had 2 or 3 a day.

Ridiculous.

I've been having one drink nightly, a shot of something, a small beer, or a glass of wine for many years now.

[h90]

You see cigarettes and alcohol tyically are not consumed in healthy amounts. In all my years on the fags I never met anyone who just had 2 or 3 a day.

For alcohol there are a lot people in Europe who drink in moderation.

For cigarettes it was common that people smoke 1-2 self made cigarettes per day. But that seems to be past now.

That was home-grown tobacco.....

[mommysboy]

Of course one small beer and a couple of tabs here and there are fine. But on a societal basis particularly in Thailand the effects on health are indisputable.

I smoked for about 35 years. It starts off just one or two then a few then 10 and 20,30, sometimes even more. Certainly when I think back at least half of my peers behaved much the same.

But I agree in part . How about ' excessive exposure to recreational drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes and environmental toxins such as pollution over a sustained period of time?

[NickJ]

Well in Thailand they cant find clothes to fit so they dont go out and drink lao kao....a nd live 11.8 years longer......and never get laid.

Edited March 31, 2015 by NickJ

[h90]

Of course one small beer and a couple of tabs here and there are fine. But on a societal basis particularly in Thailand the effects on health are indisputable.

I smoked for about 35 years. It starts off just one or two then a few then 10 and 20,30, sometimes even more. Certainly when I think back at least half of my peers behaved much the same.

But I agree in part . How about ' excessive exposure to recreational drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes and environmental toxins such as pollution over a sustained period of time?

I think it is the living happy and balanced....a few beer and a few cigarettes have way less impact (or if they increase the satisfaction with life, they might be even positive) than having a concerned unhappy life.

Like....take care your sheeps, walk in nature all the day, eat some light meals with lot of hers fruits vegetable, but also sources of protein, play on the evening with a glass of wine cards with your friends and make smoke 1 or 2 cigarettes.....

Opposite to be some stressed investment banker......

[mommysboy]

Of course one small beer and a couple of tabs here and there are fine. But on a societal basis particularly in Thailand the effects on health are indisputable.

I smoked for about 35 years. It starts off just one or two then a few then 10 and 20,30, sometimes even more. Certainly when I think back at least half of my peers behaved much the same.

But I agree in part . How about ' excessive exposure to recreational drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes and environmental toxins such as pollution over a sustained period of time?

I think it is the living happy and balanced....a few beer and a few cigarettes have way less impact (or if they increase the satisfaction with life, they might be even positive) than having a concerned unhappy life.

Like....take care your sheeps, walk in nature all the day, eat some light meals with lot of hers fruits vegetable, but also sources of protein, play on the evening with a glass of wine cards with your friends and make smoke 1 or 2 cigarettes.....

Opposite to be some stressed investment banker......

One or two yes I agree, a few cigarettes yes I reckon so, a few beers no I am not so sure of this at all. But I would undoubtedly still be drinking if it wasn't for the fact that just one glass of wine was near torture. As I drank less I noticed my ability to hold the drink went down too, and in the end even a couple of glasses was not enjoyable. I don't come from any moral angle. If I drank now I think my body would react as if it was poison, which it is really, isn't it?

Moderation is the key, but I don't think either of these 2 highly pleasurable activities are worth it if you can't indulge. That could be a national trait though, according to gov stats.15000 Brits die of direct alcohol related illness every year, and a staggering 100000 of smoking related illness. Still we all die in the end.

One of my uncles died aged around 80. All through most of his adult life he was overweight, drank way too much, he would have six spoonfuls of coffee in one cup, and smoked sometimes like a chimney. He did no formal exercise. By the time he was late middle aged he was diabetic.Nevertheless I can honestly say that in his case I doubt he lost much longevity as he got pretty good medical treatment.

One thing he used to tell me was no matter what, he had his 5 fruit and veg.

[h90]

Of course one small beer and a couple of tabs here and there are fine. But on a societal basis particularly in Thailand the effects on health are indisputable.

I smoked for about 35 years. It starts off just one or two then a few then 10 and 20,30, sometimes even more. Certainly when I think back at least half of my peers behaved much the same.

But I agree in part . How about ' excessive exposure to recreational drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes and environmental toxins such as pollution over a sustained period of time?

I think it is the living happy and balanced....a few beer and a few cigarettes have way less impact (or if they increase the satisfaction with life, they might be even positive) than having a concerned unhappy life.

Like....take care your sheeps, walk in nature all the day, eat some light meals with lot of hers fruits vegetable, but also sources of protein, play on the evening with a glass of wine cards with your friends and make smoke 1 or 2 cigarettes.....

Opposite to be some stressed investment banker......

One or two yes I agree, a few cigarettes yes I reckon so, a few beers no I am not so sure of this at all. But I would undoubtedly still be drinking if it wasn't for the fact that just one glass of wine was near torture. As I drank less I noticed my ability to hold the drink went down too, and in the end even a couple of glasses was not enjoyable. I don't come from any moral angle. If I drank now I think my body would react as if it was poison, which it is really, isn't it?

Moderation is the key, but I don't think either of these 2 highly pleasurable activities are worth it if you can't indulge. That could be a national trait though, according to gov stats.15000 Brits die of direct alcohol related illness every year, and a staggering 100000 of smoking related illness. Still we all die in the end.

One of my uncles died aged around 80. All through most of his adult life he was overweight, drank way too much, he would have six spoonfuls of coffee in one cup, and smoked sometimes like a chimney. He did no formal exercise. By the time he was late middle aged he was diabetic.Nevertheless I can honestly say that in his case I doubt he lost much longevity as he got pretty good medical treatment.

One thing he used to tell me was no matter what, he had his 5 fruit and veg.

I can not smoke 1 or 2 cigarettes for enjoy....I am quickly at 2 packs per day.

As well I can't drink an enjoyable beer at dinner....I would have 4 large one or more.

But there are people who can.......

[Chonburiram]

Any amount of alcohol increases your risk of chancer. Any amount will mess up your insuline production, resulting in diabetes ll (not from the "sugar" but from the toxicity of alc)

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2011/mar/07/safe-level-alcohol-consumption

[h90]

Any amount of alcohol increases your risk of chancer. Any amount will mess up your insuline production, resulting in diabetes ll (not from the "sugar" but from the toxicity of alc)

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2011/mar/07/safe-level-alcohol-consumption

yes but only since the last few political correct years, the 500 years before on every study a moderate consumption didn't harm or was beneficial.

(by the way the body also produces very small amounts of alcohol by itself)

[Chonburiram]

In those times it was dangerous to drink water and you were supposed to be dead at 40...

[h90]

In those times it was dangerous to drink water and you were supposed to be dead at 40...

Well 2-3 years ago......I am glad that I got over 40 by drinking beer instead....

[mommysboy]

There was more clarification on this subject in a BBC podcast, (Weekend Break - World Service.)

Yes indeed the bare stats show greater longevity. Nobody knows why yet, but simple explanations are

1. The BMI scale is wrong, as it classes certain groups fat when they are normal even healthy, eg, England rugby forwards.

2. Medicine is better dealing with the diseases that overweight people typically present.

3. Thinner people are more prone to Alzheimers.

4. When serious illness strikes, thinner people have less in their tanks to ride it out.

5. Statistical blip.

Note : healthy fat is the overall chubbyness as typically presented by a baby for instance. Beer gut fat is dangerous.

[lostinisaan]

I heard it`s also true that smoking 100 cigarettes a day is good for the health.

It's true. It's definitely good for the health of the companies that produce cigarettes and the governments who collect huge taxes.

What about all the "too big" people" who need the fire workers and their equipment to get to a hospital, after breaking out all windows, because they don't fit through any "normal" doors?

[mommysboy]

The good lady misses the healthily overweight category by a tad.

[ronz28]

I've adjusted my weight goal to current weight, because I have plateaued there and am currently a little under optimal BMI for adults over 65 per research indicating the lowest risk of death for that age group being between 27.0 and 27.9. However, younger folks appear to be most healthy at a little lower BMI. I will adjust if future research improves optimal weight assessments.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Endocrinology/GeneralEndocrinology/44843

[Kasset Tak]

I know that this is an old topic but I just want to add something about myself to it.

I'm considered obese regarding BMI, at one time of my life I was really fit and could show a six-pack but still I was obese according to the BMI.
Today I have belly fat but otherwise no big fat deposits in my face, arms or legs, they are quite normal.
Because I'm obese/overweight I don't do certain things like running and play football BUT I have been riding my bicycle between 10-40 km a day for the last 4 years with basically not loss of weight! Here comes the next but, my blood works are all good; sugar, cholesterol, blood pressure and so on are all on normal levels. My blood pressure was a little high but that was solved with 30 min meditation 3-4 times a week.

So as a conclusion: My doctor back home told me I should lose 100lbs for my BMI, then I went to see a Thai doctor that told me that I didn't need to lose any weight as all my blood works where OK but I should look out and check my sugar from time to time as it's more common among fat people to get diabetes.

[h90]

I know that this is an old topic but I just want to add something about myself to it.

I'm considered obese regarding BMI, at one time of my life I was really fit and could show a six-pack but still I was obese according to the BMI.

Today I have belly fat but otherwise no big fat deposits in my face, arms or legs, they are quite normal.

Because I'm obese/overweight I don't do certain things like running and play football BUT I have been riding my bicycle between 10-40 km a day for the last 4 years with basically not loss of weight! Here comes the next but, my blood works are all good; sugar, cholesterol, blood pressure and so on are all on normal levels. My blood pressure was a little high but that was solved with 30 min meditation 3-4 times a week.

So as a conclusion: My doctor back home told me I should lose 100lbs for my BMI, then I went to see a Thai doctor that told me that I didn't need to lose any weight as all my blood works where OK but I should look out and check my sugar from time to time as it's more common among fat people to get diabetes.

BMI is a very poor tool...It is like you would judge the quality of a car by the wide of their tires (which might be even more correct than the BMI).

There are even Docs who told bodybuilder with 3 mm skin on their belly to loose some weight as they are obese

There is a big difference if you are very muscular person with small belly or a same height person with very little muscle and a thick layer of fat.

Any Doc should know that.

But 100 lbs on the belly?? is a guarantee for back problems......

[mommysboy]

Sorry Kasset Talk. From what you describe you are now obese. No getting away from it really.

[h90]

Sorry Kasset Talk. From what you describe you are now obese. No getting away from it really.

From what he describe no one can tell anything.

he could be very muscular with a small belly or the belly could be huge...

[sanuk711]

I do believe statistics show---fat women live longer------then their husbands who point it out to them................

[mommysboy]

Sorry Kasset Talk. From what you describe you are now obese. No getting away from it really.

From what he describe no one can tell anything.

he could be very muscular with a small belly or the belly could be huge...

100lbs overweight, fat on the belly, no defined muscle!

[h90]

Sorry Kasset Talk. From what you describe you are now obese. No getting away from it really.

From what he describe no one can tell anything.

he could be very muscular with a small belly or the belly could be huge...

100lbs overweight, fat on the belly, no defined muscle!

100 lbs overweight is just what you want to read, it is not in the posting that way.

no defined muscle and fat on the belly doesn't make you the winner in the Mr. Fitness contest, but doesn't mean you are overweight and even less that you are obese.

If you take a fit bodybuilder and add 10 kg fat he has fat on the belly no defined muscles calculating the BMI it would make him obese but in fact he would have less bodyfat than the average person who is normal weight.

BMI may has some value for looking at a population but it is complete worthless for looking at a single person. Even without training, there is a huge difference if someone is born with the body shape of an African Marathon runner or a Swedish strongman.

[Kasset Tak]

I know that I should lose a lot of weight to not be considered obese.

Sins I came to Thailand 4 years ago I have gone from American sized portions to eat Thai size portions, I even eat less than many of my Thai friends. And for the last 6 months my alcohol consumption is a total of 2 (yes two) bottles of beer and I have limit my intake of sodas to 1 bottle during the weekends. On that I have some sort of exercise (bicycling (10-40 km everyday), basketball and swimming (a couple of times a week)) everyday for the last 4 years and still I have't lost any weight, I'm on a steady 297 lbs at 6'3.5".