Jingthing Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Yes, I agree. It is. Nobody is saying its nearly as bad as Iran, Russia, or Uganda. But there is plenty of room for improvement. Among Thais between 15 and 24 years old, 56 per cent think homosexuality is wrong, according to recent research by Khon Thai Foundation, a non-profit organization. By comparison, more than 70 per cent of young people in Japan, South Korea, the Philippines and western European countries think that homosexuality should be accepted by society at large, according to the Pew Research Center, an American think-tank. In a country where nearly 95 per cent of people are Buddhists, some believe that gay or transgender people suffer from bad karma for committing adultery in their past lives. "I find it surprising that Thailand, being one of the most gay-friendly countries [for foreigners], does not have laws that support and protect the LGBT community," said L'Estrange, an Irish-American who has lived in Thailand for almost 10 years. http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1421901413§ion=14&typecate=06 Of course, many would say A LOT about Thailand is superficial, but that's another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgal Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Why should there be special laws for LGBT community in LOS ? Which laws need to be improved ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Why should there be special laws for LGBT community in LOS ? Which laws need to be improved ? Did you even read the article? It's typical anti-gay civil rights rhetoric to suggest gay people seek "special" treatment. That's a crock. We seek EQUAL treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siampolee Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 No problems in the U.K. in the 1980's.or even now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costas2008 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 JT, we are living in one of the most friendly countries, towards gay people, in the world. Nothing superficial here.....people are genuine. I wonder if it is you trying, once more, to attract attention to non existent problem. Not Thailand mate..........Iran, Russia, or Uganda......yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 JT, we are living in one of the most friendly countries, towards gay people, in the world. Nothing superficial here.....people are genuine. I wonder if it is you trying, once more, to attract attention to non existent problem. Not Thailand mate..........Iran, Russia, or Uganda......yes. Did you even read the article? I didn't write the article, did I? I didn't make up the statistics from Pew research, did I? If you don't agree with the conclusions in the article, fine. Can you back it up with conflicting research other than personal SUPERFICIAL impressions? I don't think so, but go ahead and try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsxrnz Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I would suggest that male cross dressers with breast augmentation surgery, obviously "camp" gay males, and obviously "butch" gay females get a much, much MUCH better deal from society in general in Thailand than they would in any western country. As an example, go to random 7/11's or shopping malls throughout the Kingdom and you'll have no trouble finding a fair proportion of the staff are represented by these minorities. Jeez, there are more ladyboys working in the cosmetic sections of the malls than women. I've not yet seen any discrimination (Thai on Thai) of these minorities, and I think Thailand is the better place for it. Notwithstanding the legal aspects raised in the article may need addressing. I'm actually surprised with the results quoted in the Khon Thai survey and would like to see how the question/s were phrased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Of course, you're surprised, Because you're not a Thai gay man. They wouldn't be surprised. The superficiality has fooled most outsiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsxrnz Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Of course, you're surprised, Because you're not a Thai gay man. They wouldn't be surprised. The superficiality has fooled most outsiders. Neither are you. But I'm friends with two gay men, a couple of ladyboys and two Toms. We converse in both English and Thai. None of them work in the sex industry, three of them are in my wife's extended family. The ladyboys are "married" in their eyes and have been together for about five years. One works in a mall, the other at a 7/11. The opinions expressed in the article are directly opposed to theirs. In fact when I've raised the issue with them about how society regards their sexuality, they had trouble understanding where I was coming from. I mentioned "discrimination" and got laughed at. The only issue mentioned was that one of the ladyboys got called up for military service, and that was a huge joke by all accounts. They don't really care about how the law defines them. They don't really care about western opinion about marriage and suchlike, pointing out that most Thai heterosexuals aren't legally married anyway, so what's the big deal about marriage. They say that western logic about the legal status of same sex relationships is irrelevant in Thailand and that only the (few) gay activists care about it. On the street, within their communities and families, and in their workplaces, none of the ones I know have any issues with how society treats them. But that's only the few that I know and by no means can be considered an appropriate sample. No doubt you will have different opinions. Maybe you can elaborate on the discussions you've had with appropriate Thai gays that don't work in Pattaya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgal Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Why should there be special laws for LGBT community in LOS ? Which laws need to be improved ? Did you even read the article? It's typical anti-gay civil rights rhetoric to suggest gay people seek "special" treatment. That's a crock. We seek EQUAL treatment. Can you answer my questions ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Why should there be special laws for LGBT community in LOS ? Which laws need to be improved ? Did you even read the article? It's typical anti-gay civil rights rhetoric to suggest gay people seek "special" treatment. That's a crock. We seek EQUAL treatment. Can you answer my questions ? I probably could but as you framed your question with odious anti-gay rhetoric ("special rights") on a gay forum, I won't. It's not anyone's obligation to respond to every rude baiting question that comes along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsxrnz Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Why should there be special laws for LGBT community in LOS ? Which laws need to be improved ? Did you even read the article? It's typical anti-gay civil rights rhetoric to suggest gay people seek "special" treatment. That's a crock. We seek EQUAL treatment. Can you answer my questions ? JT - I'm a bit confused over the "We seek EQUAL treatment" comment. Surely the article is discussing Thai gay people. So who is the "we" your comment refers to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Of course, you're surprised, Because you're not a Thai gay man. They wouldn't be surprised. The superficiality has fooled most outsiders. Neither are you. But I'm friends with two gay men, a couple of ladyboys and two Toms. We converse in both English and Thai. None of them work in the sex industry, three of them are in my wife's extended family. The ladyboys are "married" in their eyes and have been together for about five years. One works in a mall, the other at a 7/11. The opinions expressed in the article are directly opposed to theirs. In fact when I've raised the issue with them about how society regards their sexuality, they had trouble understanding where I was coming from. I mentioned "discrimination" and got laughed at. The only issue mentioned was that one of the ladyboys got called up for military service, and that was a huge joke by all accounts. They don't really care about how the law defines them. They don't really care about western opinion about marriage and suchlike, pointing out that most Thai heterosexuals aren't legally married anyway, so what's the big deal about marriage. They say that western logic about the legal status of same sex relationships is irrelevant in Thailand and that only the (few) gay activists care about it. On the street, within their communities and families, and in their workplaces, none of the ones I know have any issues with how society treats them. But that's only the few that I know and by no means can be considered an appropriate sample. No doubt you will have different opinions. Maybe you can elaborate on the discussions you've had with appropriate Thai gays that don't work in Pattaya. Thanks for your perspective. There is an ARTICLE here to refer to. I didn't write it. I posted it for discussion. You are discussing. Good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Why should there be special laws for LGBT community in LOS ? Which laws need to be improved ? Did you even read the article? It's typical anti-gay civil rights rhetoric to suggest gay people seek "special" treatment. That's a crock. We seek EQUAL treatment. Can you answer my questions ? JT - I'm a bit confused over the "We seek EQUAL treatment" comment. Surely the article is discussing Thai and gay people. So who is the "we" your comment refers to. Stay confused. It can be healing. Anyway, you're right, I can't speak for GLBT Thai people and I didn't intend to imply that I can. I was specifically responding to the disgusting "special rights" rhetoric in a more general way. That phrase is only used by people who are against legal equality for gay people. I could have said it differently. Please don't call the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsxrnz Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Of course, you're surprised, Because you're not a Thai gay man. They wouldn't be surprised. The superficiality has fooled most outsiders. Neither are you. But I'm friends with two gay men, a couple of ladyboys and two Toms. We converse in both English and Thai. None of them work in the sex industry, three of them are in my wife's extended family. The ladyboys are "married" in their eyes and have been together for about five years. One works in a mall, the other at a 7/11. The opinions expressed in the article are directly opposed to theirs. In fact when I've raised the issue with them about how society regards their sexuality, they had trouble understanding where I was coming from. I mentioned "discrimination" and got laughed at. The only issue mentioned was that one of the ladyboys got called up for military service, and that was a huge joke by all accounts. They don't really care about how the law defines them. They don't really care about western opinion about marriage and suchlike, pointing out that most Thai heterosexuals aren't legally married anyway, so what's the big deal about marriage. They say that western logic about the legal status of same sex relationships is irrelevant in Thailand and that only the (few) gay activists care about it. On the street, within their communities and families, and in their workplaces, none of the ones I know have any issues with how society treats them. But that's only the few that I know and by no means can be considered an appropriate sample. No doubt you will have different opinions. Maybe you can elaborate on the discussions you've had with appropriate Thai gays that don't work in Pattaya. Thanks for your perspective. There is an ARTICLE here to refer to. I didn't write it. I posted it for discussion. You are discussing. Good! I just remembered something. The ladyboy that works in the mall did actually have some issues with her female workmates last year. Apparently she got a promotion and the girls were of the opinion that she only got the promotion because she was better looking than them. How ironic is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 It's interesting in the drafting of the new Thai constitution they are seriously considering equality language for "third sex" Thais (what westerners would usually call TRANSGENDER people) but they are NOT considering any language about equality under the law for gay Thais. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgal Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Why should there be special laws for LGBT community in LOS ? Which laws need to be improved ? Did you even read the article? It's typical anti-gay civil rights rhetoric to suggest gay people seek "special" treatment. That's a crock. We seek EQUAL treatment. Can you answer my questions ? I probably could but as you framed your question with odious anti-gay rhetoric ("special rights") on a gay forum, I won't. It's not anyone's obligation to respond to every rude baiting question that comes along. Special rights ? I was thinking about parental rights, adoption, marriage, succession rights, political representation, judicial representation, etc... Can you answer the questions ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Back to the discrimination question, can someone list the names of all the openly gay elected MP's in the entire history of Thailand? Not closeted ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyHead Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 It's interesting in the drafting of the new Thai constitution they are seriously considering equality language for "third sex" Thais (what westerners would usually call TRANSGENDER people) but they are NOT considering any language about equality under the law for gay Thais. Well, i think the thing with that is that they are "creating" the third sex for people who feel trapped in the wrong body and suffer because of that. It isn't for men who are happy with their gender, regardless of sexual tastes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 It's interesting in the drafting of the new Thai constitution they are seriously considering equality language for "third sex" Thais (what westerners would usually call TRANSGENDER people) but they are NOT considering any language about equality under the law for gay Thais. Well, i think the thing with that is that they are "creating" the third sex for people who feel trammed in the wrong body and suffer because of that. It isn't for men who are happy with their gender, regardless of sexual tastes. Yes, it isn't. Look at South Africa's constitution ... equal treatment for gay people is written there. In Thailand, it isn't, and won't be, Now most countries have long standing constitutions so they're stuck with old stuff. But Thailand ... they're doing a new one ... a really progressive gay friendly nation writing a new constitution today WOULD include equality language for all sexual minorities, not only so called third sex. Of course Thai culture is very different ... and in the popular mind gay people (happy with their GENDER) are often confused with third gender, but of course they are NOT the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isanbirder Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The article, and you, JT, seem to be discussing the question in Western, not Thai, terms. My partner and his younger brother are both openly gay... well, not so much openly, as not making the slightest attempt to hide it. The point really is that in a village community like ours, it is simply not an issue. If I had to give the attitude a label, I would say gay=tolerant rather than gay-friendly. I can think of two Thai gay PMs who have never bothered to hide their gayness, but people don't point the finger at them for it (neither will I!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsxrnz Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Back to the discrimination question, can someone list the names of all the openly gay elected MP's in the entire history of Thailand? Not closeted ones. There was Nok, the transgender MP. Not sure of his/her sexuality. There can't be too many ladyboy MP's in the US or UK I would have thought. But back to the discrimination question - can someone tell me how many openly gay people ran for election in the entire history of Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 As I'm not a Thai, I can't speak as if I'm a Thai. The Pew research poll in Thailand was of Thais, not westerners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Back to the discrimination question, can someone list the names of all the openly gay elected MP's in the entire history of Thailand? Not closeted ones. There was Nok, the transgender MP. Not sure of his/her sexuality. There can't be too many ladyboy MP's in the US or UK I would have thought. But back to the discrimination question - can someone tell me how many openly gay people ran for election in the entire history of Thailand. I asked about gay men openly running with their identity part of the public discussion. As I've indicated, in Thailand third sex people are better comprehended in Thai traditional culture. Gay men aren't comprehended as well. Interestingly, similar to Iran though of course I'm not suggesting any sort of equivalence between Thailand and Iran (as there they execute gay people). Also, no I'm not suggesting that "third sex" Thais don't experience discrimination based on their status, of course they do (they feel pressured into a limited number of professions), more about cultural understanding. In traditional societies, the very concept of GAY IDENTITY is indeed often perceived as a WESTERN IMPORT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsxrnz Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The article, and you, JT, seem to be discussing the question in Western, not Thai, terms. My partner and his younger brother are both openly gay... well, not so much openly, as not making the slightest attempt to hide it. The point really is that in a village community like ours, it is simply not an issue. If I had to give the attitude a label, I would say gay=tolerant rather than gay-friendly. I can think of two Thai gay PMs who have never bothered to hide their gayness, but people don't point the finger at them for it (neither will I!). You've nailed it. The attitude is even more than just gay tolerant, it's actually gay supportive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 The article, and you, JT, seem to be discussing the question in Western, not Thai, terms. My partner and his younger brother are both openly gay... well, not so much openly, as not making the slightest attempt to hide it. The point really is that in a village community like ours, it is simply not an issue. If I had to give the attitude a label, I would say gay=tolerant rather than gay-friendly. I can think of two Thai gay PMs who have never bothered to hide their gayness, but people don't point the finger at them for it (neither will I!). You've nailed it. The attitude is even more than just gay tolerant, it's actually gay supportive. The definition of tolerant is not the same as the definition of supportive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgal Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 As I'm not a Thai, I can't speak as if I'm a Thai. The Pew research poll in Thailand was of Thais, not westerners. Pew Research Center is an American think tank... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balo Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 It seems to me that every Thai family have at least one LB or open gay person among their relatives. So I think its accepted as normal even if the laws are not with them . And I wouldnt trust opinion polls like this. I met up on a beach party some time ago and met a thai doctor on a visit from Bangkok, he lived a happy family life and his son (daughter) was a ladyboy. He was very proud of his son, I mean daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsxrnz Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The article, and you, JT, seem to be discussing the question in Western, not Thai, terms. My partner and his younger brother are both openly gay... well, not so much openly, as not making the slightest attempt to hide it. The point really is that in a village community like ours, it is simply not an issue. If I had to give the attitude a label, I would say gay=tolerant rather than gay-friendly. I can think of two Thai gay PMs who have never bothered to hide their gayness, but people don't point the finger at them for it (neither will I!). You've nailed it. The attitude is even more than just gay tolerant, it's actually gay supportive. The definition of tolerant is not the same as the definition of supportive. That's exactly the point I was making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 As I'm not a Thai, I can't speak as if I'm a Thai. The Pew research poll in Thailand was of Thais, not westerners. Pew Research Center is an American think tank... Oh, I get it now. It's American so it's worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.