Tottenham Thread

[carmine]

I agree, we walked through that! I'm not sure if it was intentional but Modric had a very quiet game. Parker came forward and controlled play, switched passes and attacked them on the 18 yard box, and defended brilliantly. Modric was a disappointment for me. I liked the way Bale played all over the park and I think that Parkers ';role' gave him the confidence to 'run about a bit'! All luvverley geezers - of course!

Obviously any team would miss a player of the calibre of Modric but the important thing for me is that we are not totally reliant on him providing we are not ravaged by injuries as we were for the first three weeks of the season.

For me, the big thing now is whether Redknapp will try a different formation to accomodate Sandro. Its a sin to have him on the bench and i would also argue we'd get even more out of Parker if he had Sandro mopping up. This team set up can be done and if he does try it no ones going to overun our midfield. We are currently in a situation where we must accodate Van Der Vaart because he's playing so well. But we all know how he can fade and then with his lack of defensive skills he's a liability.

Unbelievable to think that Tom Huddlestone has yet to feature. He really has a wealth of talent at his disposal has Redknapp. You can also be very confident that Pavlyuchenko and Bassong will be off in january with some real quality coming in

[mrbojangles]

That result put the icing on the cake for my prediction week. :jap:

[smokie36]

That result put the icing on the cake for my prediction week. :jap:

I know what you're doing there.....but plenty of time for me to make a revival....anyway I'm almost as giddy as you must be!

[Abrak]

You can also be very confident that Pavlyuchenko and Bassong will be off in january with some real quality coming in

I am not too confident that you can add much to your current team because you are very balance sheet and cash flow constrained.

If you look at the last set of results, sales increased 44m to 163m and Spurs went from a 6m loss to a 0.4m profit. The problem was that 37.1m of the rise in sales came from CL attributable revenue while wages increased c.25m to 93m in the year. You can see that without CL you will be running at a hefty loss. On the balance sheet side you had 25m in net cash 5 years ago and you now have net debt of 70m (c.100% leverage). To the extent you do have money to spend presumably you need to secure a permanent striker and goalkeeper but you will almost certainly have to sell to achieve that.

I think (unlike you guys) that the albatross around your neck is the need to build a new stadium. Some people see this as a potential gold mine to send Spurs into the big league. The reality is that your old stadium with c.35,000 capacity generated revenues of 20.4m. What do you expect a new stadium with say 55,000 capacity to generate - 40m? - and is the additional 300m+ of expenditure worth it for 20m additional revenue per year. Whether you can finance such a build is debatable whether it will stymy your ability to invest in the squad for the foreseeable future is not.

I dont mean to sound pessimistic because I am not. I actually think you are the best and most obvious takeover candidate amongst the big clubs in the league.

[smokie36]

No dodgy Russians or 2nd rate arabs please Abrak. And definitely no yanks!!

[Abrak]

Good to see Adebayor sticking to his principles. He loves playing football, he loves playing for Spurs but he loves getting 170k a week more.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/22/emmanuel-adebayor-wages-tottenham-move

[smokie36]

Good to see Adebayor sticking to his principles. He loves playing football, he loves playing for Spurs but he loves getting 170k a week more.

http://www.guardian....-tottenham-move

You could say the same for at least 99% of the players nowadays Abrak. I'm happy if he keeps scoring in every match.

[Abrak]

Good to see Adebayor sticking to his principles. He loves playing football, he loves playing for Spurs but he loves getting 170k a week more.

http://www.guardian....-tottenham-move

You could say the same for at least 99% of the players nowadays Abrak. I'm happy if he keeps scoring in every match.

You certainly could. Afterall it is only a game.

Also the fact that you arent prepared to pay him 170k a week doesnt necessarily mean that he wont end up signing with you. Afterall he is costing City 100k a week to play for you. So you could pay City 15m for him, they could pay him 10m to cancel his contract and you could pay him 100k a week.

[rijit]

Good to see Adebayor sticking to his principles. He loves playing football, he loves playing for Spurs but he loves getting 170k a week more.

http://www.guardian....-tottenham-move

You could say the same for at least 99% of the players nowadays Abrak. I'm happy if he keeps scoring in every match.

nah mate you could say that 99/% of the working world wouldn't take a pay cut, would you?

[smokie36]

Good to see Adebayor sticking to his principles. He loves playing football, he loves playing for Spurs but he loves getting 170k a week more.

http://www.guardian....-tottenham-move

You could say the same for at least 99% of the players nowadays Abrak. I'm happy if he keeps scoring in every match.

nah mate you could say that 99/% of the working world wouldn't take a pay cut, would you?

I would mate...but my employers wouldn't allow it!

[CockneyGit]

Good to see Adebayor sticking to his principles. He loves playing football, he loves playing for Spurs but he loves getting 170k a week more.

http://www.guardian....-tottenham-move

You could say the same for at least 99% of the players nowadays Abrak. I'm happy if he keeps scoring in every match.

nah mate you could say that 99/% of the working world wouldn't take a pay cut, would you?

I would mate...but my employers wouldn't allow it!

I know Adebayor has been great for us but my worry is that at the moment he is "playing for a contract" and then if we do take a punt on him, once he's got his 100k a week and a settled contract will he start kicking off again as he did at The Arse, City etc.

Tricky one!

[smokie36]

As I said we won all our games in November I hope you're right about December MrRed....the fight for 2nd is hotting up!

[Abrak]

5 useless facts about Spurs that you might not know

1) This is Spurs best start in Premiership history

2) If you had beaten Newcastle instead of drawn your next game would have had the potential to match Spurs longest winning run in history. That was achieved in 1960/61 when I assume you went on to win the Championship

3) No club has lost its two opening games and gone on to qualify for the Champions League in the same year

4) Although you are currently battling for second you are not likely to come higher than 4th as no club in the top 6 has deviated more than 2 positions from its money league ranking in 5 years (valiant try by City last year.)

5) 2007 Tottenham's major shareholder, Joe Lewis, bought 11m shares in Bear Stearns at an average price of US$107 a share. The following year the company was taken over by JP Morgan at US$10 a share with Lewis losing US$1.16bn. He has said he is not going to contribute to the financing of a new stadium.

[carmine]

5 useless facts about Spurs that you might not know

1) This is Spurs best start in Premiership history

2) If you had beaten Newcastle instead of drawn your next game would have had the potential to match Spurs longest winning run in history. That was achieved in 1960/61 when I assume you went on to win the Championship

3) No club has lost its two opening games and gone on to qualify for the Champions League in the same year

4) Although you are currently battling for second you are not likely to come higher than 4th as no club in the top 6 has deviated more than 2 positions from its money league ranking in 5 years (valiant try by City last year.)

5) 2007 Tottenham's major shareholder, Joe Lewis, bought 11m shares in Bear Stearns at an average price of US$107 a share. The following year the company was taken over by JP Morgan at US$10 a share with Lewis losing US$1.16bn. He has said he is not going to contribute to the financing of a new stadium.

I'm actually surprised that you took the decision to print the fourth point because its the most ridiculous twoddle i've ever read on this forum.

[carmine]

Roy Hodgson reckons West Brom were hard done by. We had 15 shots on target, they had 5. Yet he feels they deserved a draw!

That was particularily nice to win without Modric and the in form Van Der Vaart. It will also send a clear message that we arn't going anywhere. The results this weekend are panning out very nicely so far.

Adebayor should have bagged about seven the last two games. Great goal by Defoe. Whats really impressive is the steel we show these days. We are going to be very dificult for anyone to beat and i don't think the players are bothered who we play. I know i'm not!

Happy days.

[alfieconn]

Roy Hodgson reckons West Brom were hard done by. We had 15 shots on target, they had 5. Yet he feels they deserved a draw!

We had more shots on target in the first half let alone the second half

That was particularily nice to win without Modric and the in form Van Der Vaart. It will also send a clear message that we arn't going anywhere. The results this weekend are panning out very nicely so far.

Yes Carms, nice too see that we are not a one man team unlike some of the lower teams in the league

Adebayor should have bagged about seven the last two games. Great goal by Defoe. Whats really impressive is the steel we show these days. We are going to be very dificult for anyone to beat and i don't think the players are bothered who we play. I know i'm not!

To be fair, i can only see it being a 2 horse race now, perhaps we can afford to let Modric go to either Man yoo or the chaves as they are both in greater need of him than us, only for 70m of course

[carmine]

I wonder what Modric is thinking now having nearly joined a small team in decline. I'm really looking forward to playing them in december.

Nice to seem the big Dutchman, Mr Jol doing us a favour aswell. Always was a top bloke he was. Our next focus must be to see the kids qualify for the knock out stages of the europa.

I think Dawson and Thudd are going to have a real fight on their hands to start when they are fit, however in the absense of Modric Thudd would be staight in for me as he would have been yesterday in place of Sandro in the first half atleast. If we cant play Modric we need his creativity and range of passing

Kaboul starting even with a fit Dawson of Gallas is a good arguement too. His improvement over the last couple of years is impressive. I've always been a big fan of Dawson but the fact is he's not the quickest center back in the league and Billy is 34 already.

[Abrak]

I'm actually surprised that you took the decision to print the fourth point because its the most ridiculous twoddle i've ever read on this forum.

I dont quite understand why a fact is twoddle. I think you understand the massively high correlation between spend and performance so it is natural to assume that you will regress towards the correlation rather than continue to deviate from it. It is sort of like a coin one side is heads and the other is tails and the fact that you got 5 heads in a row wont change that.

It simply isnt very likely that you can beat either Chelsea, City or United who all spend at least 60% more than you. I can think of only one instance where there has been a similar deviation of spend and performance and that was the year that Newcastle were relegated. Obviously it is not impossible and if you do beat one of them it is far more impressive than winning the league with shed loads of money.

I do actually wonder where Chelsea's money has disappeared to. They are 2nd in the money league so it would be highly unusual if they ended up 5th at the end of the season.

I find it more incredible that people actually think football is anything much more than money. If City spend enough they will win the league. And as money appears to be no object resistance by Utd will be futile at the end of the day.

PS and those facts were a free service and easily worth the read I reckon. Most of it is true too. By default Lewis wont fund the stadium because he has 3bn quid and then Boris wouldnt give you a penny. Do you happen to know how much Levy owns?

Edited November 27, 2011 by Abrak

[carmine]

I'm actually surprised that you took the decision to print the fourth point because its the most ridiculous twoddle i've ever read on this forum.

I dont quite understand why a fact is twoddle. I think you understand the massively high correlation between spend and performance so it is natural to assume that you will regress towards the correlation rather than continue to deviate from it. It is sort of like a coin one side is heads and the other is tails and the fact that you got 5 heads in a row wont change that.

It simply isnt very likely that you can beat either Chelsea, City or United who all spend at least 60% more than you. I can think of only one instance where there has been a similar deviation of spend and performance and that was the year that Newcastle were relegated. Obviously it is not impossible and if you do beat one of them it is far more impressive than winning the league with shed loads of money.

I do actually wonder where Chelsea's money has disappeared to. They are 2nd in the money league so it would be highly unusual if they ended up 5th at the end of the season.

I find it more incredible that people actually think football is anything much more than money. If City spend enough they will win the league. And as money appears to be no object resistance by Utd will be futile at the end of the day.

What interests me is that you spend about 56m a year on wages more than we do yet we are a far better team that by tonight will probably be six points ahead of you with a home game in hand.

[JacknDanny]

I'm actually surprised that you took the decision to print the fourth point because its the most ridiculous twoddle i've ever read on this forum.

I dont quite understand why a fact is twoddle. I think you understand the massively high correlation between spend and performance so it is natural to assume that you will regress towards the correlation rather than continue to deviate from it. It is sort of like a coin one side is heads and the other is tails and the fact that you got 5 heads in a row wont change that.

It simply isnt very likely that you can beat either Chelsea, City or United who all spend at least 60% more than you. I can think of only one instance where there has been a similar deviation of spend and performance and that was the year that Newcastle were relegated. Obviously it is not impossible and if you do beat one of them it is far more impressive than winning the league with shed loads of money.

I do actually wonder where Chelsea's money has disappeared to. They are 2nd in the money league so it would be highly unusual if they ended up 5th at the end of the season.

I find it more incredible that people actually think football is anything much more than money. If City spend enough they will win the league. And as money appears to be no object resistance by Utd will be futile at the end of the day.

What interests me is that you spend about 56m a year on wages more than we do yet we are a far better team that by tonight will probably be six points ahead of you with a home game in hand.

And with the added handicap of havin a shit manager who has took you as far has he can!!

[carmine]

I'm actually surprised that you took the decision to print the fourth point because its the most ridiculous twoddle i've ever read on this forum.

I dont quite understand why a fact is twoddle. I think you understand the massively high correlation between spend and performance so it is natural to assume that you will regress towards the correlation rather than continue to deviate from it. It is sort of like a coin one side is heads and the other is tails and the fact that you got 5 heads in a row wont change that.

It simply isnt very likely that you can beat either Chelsea, City or United who all spend at least 60% more than you. I can think of only one instance where there has been a similar deviation of spend and performance and that was the year that Newcastle were relegated. Obviously it is not impossible and if you do beat one of them it is far more impressive than winning the league with shed loads of money.

I do actually wonder where Chelsea's money has disappeared to. They are 2nd in the money league so it would be highly unusual if they ended up 5th at the end of the season.

I find it more incredible that people actually think football is anything much more than money. If City spend enough they will win the league. And as money appears to be no object resistance by Utd will be futile at the end of the day.

What interests me is that you spend about 56m a year on wages more than we do yet we are a far better team that by tonight will probably be six points ahead of you with a home game in hand.

And with the added handicap of havin a shit manager who has took you as far has he can!!

Knob off and bore someone on another thread plod. Thanks mate.

Edited November 27, 2011 by carmine

[Abrak]

What interests me is that you spend about 56m a year on wages more than we do yet we are a far better team that by tonight will probably be six points ahead of you with a home game in hand.

Yes although a little historic. Your wages increased 40% or so last year and now is over 70% of sales which will fall.

But you are right if we compare 09/10 we spent 56m more than you and you beat us. Chelsea spent 100m more than you and 150% more on wages. And now City have outspent them. Man Utd spent over 100% more on wages and havent been beaten in the league by a club that spent less since 03/04.

Your 'fact' highlights two things. LFC has been incredibly inefficient in their spend - I dont think you could find a single fan that disagreed. FSG may have paid up for transfer fees but they have been very careful about wages.

I will also admit a second point that over the last couple of years Spurs have shown that they are the most efficient spender of capital amongst the big clubs (with Arsenal a little way behind.)

However you dont quite understand why you still lose. You have shown that you get the best utility (in points or football) out of money. The problem with efficiency is that it is finite. And to be honest efficiency realistically trend towards a mean (by that I mean if you are more efficient because you underpay players and we are less efficient because we overpay the likelihood is in the future you will pay more and we will pay less) - Modric doesnt remained underpaid for long. If Liverpool's efficiency vaguely approached yours we might beat you.

But your concept is that as you can beat one club that spends 56m more than you, you can become even more efficient and beat clubs that are spending 100m more than you. And even if you became super efficient and could get more points than a club spending double what you do - all City has to do is spend more.

The problem you have is while your efficiency is finite, say City's or Chelsea's money is infinite.

[smokie36]

I can see that no one can spell twaddle. Also Abrak is insanely jealous. A further look into my crystal ball and I see them getting battered at home this evening.

Oh dear!

[carmine]

I can see that no one can spell twaddle. Also Abrak is insanely jealous. A further look into my crystal ball and I see them getting battered at home this evening.

Oh dear!

He is insanely jealous and appartently we will start to slide soon because they spend more money and erhh something Haven't they noticed up there that we've never looked back since Levy sacked Comolli They are no fun on there anymore. Stevie doesn't want to play, Dev does whatever Stevie does, jimjim is so sensitive its like posting on egg shells!!! And tonight they play City Suarez better keep his elbows and forearms down because its not good to play Citeh with 10 men.

I predict 1-3 to City and Mindyou isn't it a win win for us!

[smokie36]

I can see that no one can spell twaddle. Also Abrak is insanely jealous. A further look into my crystal ball and I see them getting battered at home this evening.

Oh dear!

He is insanely jealous and appartently we will start to slide soon because they spend more money and erhh something Haven't they noticed up there that we've never looked back since Levy sacked Comolli They are no fun on there anymore. Stevie doesn't want to play, Dev does whatever Stevie does, jimjim is so sensitive its like posting on egg shells!!! And tonight they play City Suarez better keep his elbows and forearms down because its not good to play Citeh with 10 men.

I predict 1-3 to City and Mindyou isn't it a win win for us!

Any result would suit us. The beer will be flowing and the scouse guvnor is doling out free chilli an all....win win all right!

[JacknDanny]

So you guys are playing decent football.

Lying 3rd in the league!!

So before Carmine starts with his knob head insults, I just want to ask genuinely if 'Arry is doing a good job in your opinion?

Before I was seeing "He has took us as far as he can!!" And you were hoping England would take him off your hands etc etc!!

I think he has done a great job with very little money... Selling Crouch, replacing him with Adebayor on loan for example is a great bit of business. Buying Parker another great bit of business!!

[Abrak]

He is insanely jealous and appartently we will start to slide soon because they spend more money and erhh something Haven't they noticed up there that we've never looked back since Levy sacked Comolli They are no fun on there anymore.

You guys are however a lot of fun. Yes I will readily admit that I am impressed by how efficiently you allocate resources and how well you have managed to do considering that you are competing with only a bog roll and an empty packet of fags.

But I am afraid to say Tottenham is a case study in masochism and you seemed determined to bang your head against a brick wall for no apparent reason.

So since Comolli left at the end of '08 you havent looked back. I am not sure you have actually been looking where you are going at all and if you had looked back you would see that you are heading backwards. Nobody has benefited from anything at Spurs and you have simply squeezed your selves by trying to compete with the big boys when you dont have sufficient revenues to finance your ambitions.

Lets consider what has happened since Comolli left.

1) Your share price has fallen 75% and your business is now valued at 76m which is about 4 months losses for City.

2) You have made no money and what is a little scary is that you made 0.4m last year when you had 37m of CL revenues. When Comolli left you had a profitable business without CL revenues.

3) You have leveraged the balance sheet from 20m net debt to 70m net debt in order to finance the squad and are now 100% leveraged.

4) So you now have no positive cash flow and no ability to borrow more to finance the squad

5) I dont think you won anything. You qualified for CL which made you no money as you ramped up the cost base that now sits there with no CL revenues

6) You have the lowest match day revenues and the lowest commercial revenues out of the top 6, so being the most efficient has given you the reward of being able to breakeven. Great.

7) Given that you have say 35m more revenue than Everton you could spend more than them, beat them and make a large profit but instead you have simply pissed into an incredibly strong headwind.

8) Even your players are basically underpaid relative to what they could earn elsewhere because you are brutally efficient but there is no quid pro quo.

So you have leveraged the balance sheet, are no longer profitable, you have run out of money to expand the team while at the same time being the most efficient. Your efficient use of revenues has been more than wasted because you are trying to compete against teams that have far more revenues to begin with. Brilliant operating efficient with a moronic profit model.

You can tell me what you have achieved if you can think of something. What I want to know is what you are trying to achieve.

And look Liverpool's fundamentals rank 5 out of 6. Arsenal has 50m more revenue than LFC, Man Utd 120m and both City and Chelsea have more revenues with virtually unlimited capital. LFC does however have double the matchday revenue and double the commercial revenue of Spurs. So I certainly dont feel jealous of Spurs incredibly unenviable position. I just dont understand why an intelligent man like Levy is banging his head against a brick wall.

[MrRed]

As I said we won all our games in November I hope you're right about December MrRed....the fight for 2nd is hotting up!

The way you are playing i don't doubt it,Interestingly United are in a better position than last year too

[alfieconn]

Lets consider what has happened since Comolli left.

1) Your share price has fallen 75% and your business is now valued at 76m which is about 4 months losses for City.

2) You have made no money and what is a little scary is that you made 0.4m last year when you had 37m of CL revenues. When Comolli left you had a profitable business without CL revenues.

3) You have leveraged the balance sheet from 20m net debt to 70m net debt in order to finance the squad and are now 100% leveraged.

4) So you now have no positive cash flow and no ability to borrow more to finance the squad

5) I dont think you won anything. You qualified for CL which made you no money as you ramped up the cost base that now sits there with no CL revenues

6) You have the lowest match day revenues and the lowest commercial revenues out of the top 6, so being the most efficient has given you the reward of being able to breakeven. Great.

7) Given that you have say 35m more revenue than Everton you could spend more than them, beat them and make a large profit but instead you have simply pissed into an incredibly strong headwind.

8) Even your players are basically underpaid relative to what they could earn elsewhere because you are brutally efficient but there is no quid pro quo.

So you are saying this has all happened because Comolli left

LFC does however have double the matchday revenue

If Spurs have a capacity of 36,000,liverpools is 42,000 and liverpool average seat price is less than Spurs how can this be

[alfieconn]

You can tell me what you have achieved if you can think of something. What I want to know is what you are trying to achieve.

If you need to ask this question then you really don't have a clue about the average football supporter.

To be fair abrak the average football fan doesn't really give a shit about a clubs finances as long as the team are progressing because if that is happening then the finances are ilrevelent.

Anyway i for one find your spouting on about football clubs finances sometimes interesting but mostly boring so i will open a thread for football business talk only and hopefully you will not clog up threads with all this insignificant crap.

Edited November 27, 2011 by alfieconn