Thai opinion: The Ugly American is alive and kicking

[Alwyn]

Don said. "In reality, Thais don't even know there is martial law." and they never heard of Daniel Russell either you mug

[MrTee]

Wind it in..
It's an opinion piece, by someone that doesn't matter, in a rag that doesn't matter.

So much blowhard over nothing

[tbthailand]

Children should not play with fire, as they can get seriously burnt. If Thailand wants to keep its very lucrative trade access to the USA, it may wish to pick its fights with caution.

yes, agreed.

however ultra-nationalism is blind to this.

[wolfmanjack]

What the writer doesn't realise is that NO ONE CARES about Thailand courting this or that.

The world will still turn if Thailand chooses to unfriendly the USA, and the USA won't bat an eyelid.

What's the usual response in the UK or the US from people when you mention Thailand?

Don't say it. We'll get banned.

Honestly, Thailand needs to wake up to the fact it's in its own little introspective bubble and the rest of the World considers it to be the World's [fill the blank, begins with 'B']

The response I almost always got when i mentioned Thailand was "Oh Taiwan, Yeah I know where that's at". Most Americans i knew had no idea thailand even existed but that was before the hangover movie was filmed here so I am sure that has changed.

Edited January 30, 2015 by wolfmanjack

[iReason]

What is so wrong with wanting there to be democracy and a fair election in Thailand

The people currently in power are just scared that the Thai people will one day soon wale up and smell the coffee

and realize how bad they have it. They started to wake up 12 months ago but the military stepped in to squash their dreams.

IMO until there is an all out people revolution that is allowed to play out the cycle willl continue and Thailand will be regarded

as a 3rd world banana republic

Democracy has never existed here in Thailand. The current military government has made this country peaceful again and put an end to all the protests and violence. There is little or no military presence on the streets and the army are doing their best to clean up Thaksin's mess. The majority of peace loving Thais are happy and proud of the job that their army are doing.

The US sent a politician here who obviously lacks education and knowledge about Thailand. He looked at the facts without studying the reasons behind them. He obviously chose the 'elected leader's' side and spoke about the return of 'democracy'. He probably knows nothing about the rice scheme or Yinglucks family background.

The fact that the US sent someone lacking intelligence showed a lack of respect for Thailand. That is what is most annoying about the incident. US Imperialistic attitudes are prevalent whenever their ruling elite engage with the outside world. For example, Fox news' recent embarrassing claims about Muslim areas in Britain and France and another news reporter recently though that the Republic of Ireland was British.Added to this is Michelle Obama's lack of respect by not wearing a Muslim headscarf at the funeral of the King Of Saudi Arabia. I bet no one even thought of a headscarf prior to her stepping off the plane. She shouldn't have gone to the funeral. Most of the Muslim leaders there were shocked by the presence of a woman there let alone one that showed a complete lack of respect for Muslim culture. Right now I would be embarrassed to be American....

In answer to your ludicrous assertions of the lack of knowledge and intelligence of Daniel Russel.

(Not to mention your naiveté.)

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/biog/212045.htm

You actually think he just winged it?

You think he wasn't extensively briefed by the State Dept. and his staff?

And knew nothing of the issues within Thailand beforehand?

One doesn't compile a resume like his with the kind of faults you claim.

Absolutely ludicrous.

Fox "News" indeed...

[LatPhrao]

What is so wrong with wanting there to be democracy and a fair election in Thailand

The people currently in power are just scared that the Thai people will one day soon wale up and smell the coffee

and realize how bad they have it. They started to wake up 12 months ago but the military stepped in to squash their dreams.

IMO until there is an all out people revolution that is allowed to play out the cycle willl continue and Thailand will be regarded

as a 3rd world banana republic

Democracy has never existed here in Thailand. The current military government has made this country peaceful again and put an end to all the protests and violence. There is little or no military presence on the streets and the army are doing their best to clean up Thaksin's mess. The majority of peace loving Thais are happy and proud of the job that their army are doing.

The US sent a politician here who obviously lacks education and knowledge about Thailand. He looked at the facts without studying the reasons behind them. He obviously chose the 'elected leader's' side and spoke about the return of 'democracy'. He probably knows nothing about the rice scheme or Yinglucks family background.

The fact that the US sent someone lacking intelligence showed a lack of respect for Thailand. That is what is most annoying about the incident. US Imperialistic attitudes are prevalent whenever their ruling elite engage with the outside world. For example, Fox news' recent embarrassing claims about Muslim areas in Britain and France and another news reporter recently though that the Republic of Ireland was British.Added to this is Michelle Obama's lack of respect by not wearing a Muslim headscarf at the funeral of the King Of Saudi Arabia. I bet no one even thought of a headscarf prior to her stepping off the plane. She shouldn't have gone to the funeral. Most of the Muslim leaders there were shocked by the presence of a woman there let alone one that showed a complete lack of respect for Muslim culture. Right now I would be embarrassed to be American....

The current military government put an end to their own self started protests and violence, colluding with Suthep, supporters and the "justice" system to bring down the elected government! Get a #@*! clue.

Yes, the US is interested in supporting democratic nations, and leaders and not military takeovers and those who abrogate freedom of speech and people's right to assemble, among others.

And please, stay embarrassed, "lacking in education and knowledge" and supporting what's going down here. And quoting from Fox News? The entity just recognized by fact checkers as lying in their so called "news" more than any other outlet in the media category. Another right wing outfit that prefers lying and obscuring information to control their audience. You should love them.

[Emster23]

Have any of the allegedly educated ever read the book "The Ugly American"? I have. "The Ugly American" was an ironic comment about a character who went out, helped the common people, got his hands dirty and was not one of the "Beautiful Americans" that do the Embassy circuit, the hiso gatherings and all that. If someone wishes to call me an "Ugly American" I will say "If you are referring to the character in the book described as "the ugly American", I will take that as a compliment.

The OP references the Brando film, not the book. And the film is as depicted in the OP.

Yes but does not even remark about the book.... which led me to assume he didn't know it was a book first. Probably unfamiliar with fact Lord of the Rings saga was also written... I am so old school.

[willyumiii]

Thailand "unfriending" America would make little if any difference to America.

It would however make a difference to Americans ( like me) living in Thailand.

I have many expats friends here from other countries and talking to them, I feel that we Americans get better treatment and respect from government officials than they do.

America has done much for Thailand's infrastructure since it's involvement in Vietnam.

Without American support of the government and military in thailand, I think their attitude toward Americans in Thailand will change, and not for the better.

The future could be interesting for Americans in Thailand..

P.S. Did you know that they are already bringing in teachers from China to teach young Thai children to speak Chinese?

China is not a member of ASEAN!

Edited January 30, 2015 by willyumiii

[pegman]

USA diplomatic corps. gets it right? Who would have thunk it possible. Well done sir.

[pegman]

The US never learn...not even when is living in a totally "New World" and "Global Economy".....In the 60's and 70's with the excuse to win the Cold War with Russia, the US/CIA get into internal affairs in democratic countries in South America replacing Democratic Governments with Military Dictatorships, killing thousand of innocent people in the way....Chile, Argentina, Brazil.... thousands of innocent people. Others have to get into exile to save its lives.

After 50 years of control and corruption, even with the end of the Cold War, those countries, and most South America countries are now elected Democratic Socialist Governments, doing better economically without the US help, and getting into alliances with Russia, China, etc. Mexico is getting close to that, even with so close connection with the US. Sure, the US propaganda never will admit that.....like never will admit that the US is making a mess getting into Muslim countries now...killing more this time...and its own people.

The US sub-estimated South America, and it doing the same with Asia...and its will have a surprise again...Prayut Government was not imposed by any foreign "CIA"....and its is very Thai...foreigners like it or not. Prayut becomes a very popular leader. His lack of Politic "education" may be not good for PR with other politicians...but.....he connects very well with PEOPLE...and Thailand, like any country in the World, belongs to its PEOPLE, and Prayut will become an elected PM if he runs for it. No doubts about, and better to the US understand that.

Then he should call the election immediately.

[hawthorne]

No need for anyone to get wound up here guys. This is politics and that is it. This game is played played by idiots, normal folk not allowed on the field. So the spectators don't need to fight over their idiot players. No country is without its own special needs team.

Sit back, grab a six pack and be merry the show never ends, always another season.

[h90]

During the last coup after about 6 months in the Junta conjured up the boarder dispute with Cambodia over the Preah Vihear temple which was never in dispute that it belonged to Cambodia. They played this card in press daily until the international court ruled in Cambodia's favor. Things have been "wearing thin" lately with the Thai's over this coup so now they are playing the imperialist American, we know better,stay out of our business card. Only the Kool-Aid drinking Yellow followers will believe this diversion tactic as any critical thinking person has seen this strategy before.

As long as I remember it wasn't after the last coup, it was during Abhisit.

[tbthailand]

What is so wrong with wanting there to be democracy and a fair election in Thailand

The people currently in power are just scared that the Thai people will one day soon wale up and smell the coffee

and realize how bad they have it. They started to wake up 12 months ago but the military stepped in to squash their dreams.

IMO until there is an all out people revolution that is allowed to play out the cycle willl continue and Thailand will be regarded

as a 3rd world banana republic

Democracy has never existed here in Thailand. The current military government has made this country peaceful again and put an end to all the protests and violence. There is little or no military presence on the streets and the army are doing their best to clean up Thaksin's mess. The majority of peace loving Thais are happy and proud of the job that their army are doing.

The US sent a politician here who obviously lacks education and knowledge about Thailand. He looked at the facts without studying the reasons behind them. He obviously chose the 'elected leader's' side and spoke about the return of 'democracy'. He probably knows nothing about the rice scheme or Yinglucks family background.

The fact that the US sent someone lacking intelligence showed a lack of respect for Thailand. That is what is most annoying about the incident. US Imperialistic attitudes are prevalent whenever their ruling elite engage with the outside world. For example, Fox news' recent embarrassing claims about Muslim areas in Britain and France and another news reporter recently though that the Republic of Ireland was British.Added to this is Michelle Obama's lack of respect by not wearing a Muslim headscarf at the funeral of the King Of Saudi Arabia. I bet no one even thought of a headscarf prior to her stepping off the plane. She shouldn't have gone to the funeral. Most of the Muslim leaders there were shocked by the presence of a woman there let alone one that showed a complete lack of respect for Muslim culture. Right now I would be embarrassed to be American....

In answer to your ludicrous assertions of the lack of knowledge and intelligence of Daniel Russel.

(Not to mention your naiveté.)

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/biog/212045.htm

You actually think he just winged it?

You think he wasn't extensively briefed by the State Dept. and his staff?

And knew nothing of the issues within Thailand beforehand?

One doesn't compile a resume like his with the kind of faults you claim.

Absolutely ludicrous.

Fox "News" indeed...

given his last line,

Right now I would be embarrassed to be American...

he obviously is not American and doesn't know how the diplomatic corps works.

It seems quite obvious that Russell recognized that meeting with former PMs, especially Yingluck, would ruffle some feathers given the current environment.

Edited January 30, 2015 by tbthailand

[copa8]

Now i see a problem with the usual self righteous thai bashers.

Here's the deal. If you have been reading this forum long enough you would know that the shinawatras aren't loved here and the fact that they have chinese blood in them makes it even worse.

Then you have america supporting the shinawatras and questioning the present thai govt which causes the US to be bashed and that's a big no no here it's just the typical farang reaction obviously. It's also not a coincidence that the ones that support america and the rest of the west happen to be anti thaksin/shinawatra so now they are in a fix. Thaksin being chinese = china and an american official asking for a fair trial and getting bashed by the thai side well they cannot support the american side now cos that means supporting thaksin and the chinese side.

Got this from Wiki: 14% of Thailand's population are considered ethnic Chinese. The share of those having at least partly Chinese ancestry is estimated at about 40%. Also, interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taksin

[Jools]

As an American, I don't see the "American Bashing" here. Valid criticism of foreign policy is not bashing, it is an attempt to secure justice.If Thais think that China will not "interfere" with their internal affairs, they are welcome to invite them in.

The Ugly American is alive and kicking

Isn't this comment against forum rules, American Bashing. I'm an Aussie and don't really care just wondering.

When they say many Thais who exactly do the mean, is it the Junta or the populous? The Thais I know have never heard of Mr Russell or were even aware of his comment.

[MZurf]

Like Thais could do without seven-eleven.

None of us can.

I can. Hardly ever been in one apart from when travelling and stop for fuel then it is normally just stretching the legs in the aircon. I come from Aust and wouldn't even know where find one there.

Well, if you can't find one in Thailand you shouldn't drive!

[Fatty123]

Like Thais could do without seven-eleven.

None of us can.

Still has a bloody awful range of 'products' that hardly ever changes. Oh wait. They once got in cottage cheese for a while and Crunchips salt and vinegar crisps. They were different and actually good products. So they stopped selling them after a few weeks of course (despite them selling out quickly).

Surely they could buy in some Monster Munch, real cheese, frozen pies etc after all these years? Perhaps some edible normal sized bread? No?

Oh, ugly American you say? Bit of an obscure movie to bring up. Never heard of it. But the Thai elite haven't heard this one:

Thai elite: ''Say sorry or we stop trade with you and trade everything with China instead'' (whispers to collegues ''heh heh...this will make them panic and do as we say'')

US gov: ''Oh me? I didn't realise you were talking to me. Oh I'm sorry. I thought you were talking to someone who actually gives a sh...''

[khunsiam]

During the last coup after about 6 months in the Junta conjured up the boarder dispute with Cambodia over the Preah Vihear temple which was never in dispute that it belonged to Cambodia. They played this card in press daily until the international court ruled in Cambodia's favor. Things have been "wearing thin" lately with the Thai's over this coup so now they are playing the imperialist American, we know better,stay out of our business card. Only the Kool-Aid drinking Yellow followers will believe this diversion tactic as any critical thinking person has seen this strategy before.

As long as I remember it wasn't after the last coup, it was during Abhisit.

oh yes and the ultranationalist yellow faction of the democrats pushing for it, Abhisit reluctant first but had to give in and who was on the stages during the people's uprising, conspiring with the military, ask any hardcore yellow who made the plans for "Sutheps" uprising and you'll know..and it had nothing to do with the amnesty law...

[MyFriend You]

"third-world country."

Didn't bother to read the rest. This is the apparent truth certainly in terms of diplomacy and many other aspects. Yes, Thailand, your current behaviour deserves to be patronised.

You are proving their point perfectly.

Sit down and start behaving like a grown up.

Go your separate ways? Where would Thailand prefer to go? Into the loving arms of China?

Hahahaha. Reap your own crop from that plan if you like. Either man up and play by the rules or take the criticism and make your own path.

I have a feeling,that soon enough someone is going to have a quiet word with this NLA and tell them to wind their necks in. Because if this rhetoric keeps up like this the USA might just take it seriously and tell them to f*** right off and go and get into bed with China.good luck.

When the Phillipines kept saying 'Yanqui go Home' they got real quiet when we called their bluff and did, and took a lot of equipmwent with us to Thailand, including two De Long Piers about a cool Million$$ apiece and containers full of equipment - I know - I worked the Vayama and Sattahip Ports and the stream of vessels stacked up from Subic lasted for weeks. I know a lot will say "No it was Mount Pinatabo's fault that cause the US to DESERT US. not so..........Thailand will never make that mistake. Never.

[Bluespunk]

During the last coup after about 6 months in the Junta conjured up the boarder dispute with Cambodia over the Preah Vihear temple which was never in dispute that it belonged to Cambodia. They played this card in press daily until the international court ruled in Cambodia's favor. Things have been "wearing thin" lately with the Thai's over this coup so now they are playing the imperialist American, we know better,stay out of our business card. Only the Kool-Aid drinking Yellow followers will believe this diversion tactic as any critical thinking person has seen this strategy before.

As long as I remember it wasn't after the last coup, it was during Abhisit.

oh yes and the ultranationalist yellow faction of the democrats pushing for it, Abhisit reluctant first but had to give in and who was on the stages during the people's uprising, conspiring with the military, ask any hardcore yellow who made the plans for "Sutheps" uprising and you'll know..and it had nothing to do with the amnesty law...

It was PAD who were pushing the whole temple issue and they were fiercely critical if the Dems when they refused to follow their fanatical nationalistic line. PAD and the Dems are not the same. Very different.

The protests that broke out after the "give thaksin whatever he wants" amnesty bill had everything to do with that bill.

Suthep's lunacy? Well that was his doing and not that of the those who rightly protested PT's abuse of power and procedure to give thaksin his way.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Bluespunk

[movsrus]

The PM doesn't think Thais even know they are under martial law? Oh, I think they know. Just ask any of the opposition politicians who have been called in by the military for attitude adjustment and I think they can tell you they know.

[nodomino]

What ever it is that Thai people choose for their form of government is a choice for them and them alone. America, in spite of its pretensions to being the ultimate arbiter of all things democratic has a very, very mixed record as a defender of other people's self determination. Beyond being insulting to Thai's, this American official has insulted and embarrassed those of us Americans who choose to live here.

[connda]

"The Ugly American" reportedly prompted US president Dwight Eisenhower to call for an adjustment of US foreign policy. President John F Kennedy is thought to have sent a copy of the book on which the film is based to every US senator."

And obviously, if you study history up to the present day, it didn't have any effect on the outcome of present US foreign policy. Business as usual, 'Ugly' or not.

[45slap]

Post 10, the Americans don't support The Shins, they support democracy. Snap out of it.

[willyumiii]

Post 10, the Americans don't support The Shins, they support democracy. Snap out of it.

We Americans know that the ankles support the Shins, the Shins support the knees, the knees, the thighs, the thighs, the hips And so on!

Snap any of them and you have a problem!

[Johpa]

China must be delighted.

China has been delighted since it began to compete with the United States for the extracted profits coming out of Thailand, especially with the ever increasing ascendancy of the CP Group, which reinvests in the PRC, over the smaller scale businesses that use to fund all the Thai restaurants and Thai owned real estate purchases in the US.

Basically a US political appointee was caught whining about diminishing US influence in Bangkok. Of course the rising influence of China does not bode well for the Thais as the entire region seems to be taking on Cambodia as the regional role model.

[pegman]

What ever it is that Thai people choose for their form of government is a choice for them and them alone. America, in spite of its pretensions to being the ultimate arbiter of all things democratic has a very, very mixed record as a defender of other people's self determination. Beyond being insulting to Thai's, this American official has insulted and embarrassed those of us Americans who choose to live here.

What part of the Thai people electing, by popular majority, the government they wanted then having the elites grab power are you having trouble understanding? Never mind the Ugly American, I present the Stupid American.

[Guest]

despite all the rhetoric and huffing and puffing, russel should keep his nose out of Thailand politics and shut his mouth, internal affairs are for the Thai government only, and the self proclaimed sherriff should stay out of it

[Don Aleman]

Personally I wish, and fervently hope that this last incident will open some important US political eyes as to what does the US profit, in any way, from a Thai relationship ? Pretty much Thailand is just an endless funnel for US taxpayers money giving absolutely nothing in return. Thailand, somehow believes, their tiny ,virtually fruitless, thumb sized nation is important and that the US cares about Chinese financial domination here and, now, I think the US is fed up and, quietly "allowing" China to get an even strong foothold !

[trogers]

What? Marines will be having their R&R in Kota Bahru, Malaysia?