Patong is dead.

[xylophone]

I did a bit of "research" last night on my foray out to Bangla and the results were interesting.

It was mentioned that many bars in the Soi we are speaking about were possibly going to see their investment of nine years of lease key money in jeopardy, however there would be only about six bars in that Soi which actually paid that sort of money, and one very large one in particular which paid an exorbitant amount (the amount has already been mentioned) and no one could understand why!!

Many of the rest have paid three years with a review for the nine years available along the way because they rejected having to pay nine years of key money. And yes, some have been allowed to move in on a rent only basis so that the Soi looks busy. As I have said before, the Soi was already dying so why would anyone put that sort of money into it and I suppose the old adage, "never invest more in Thailand than you can afford to walk away from" comes to mind (not to mention a few others).

As has already been said, many of the owners in that Soi are Thai, and yes they are struggling, but I have to ask myself why they keep investing in such things, and this is pretty endemic in Patong and you only have to read other posts on this thread about shops, restaurants, guesthouses etc closing, while still more Thais move in and buy them up, only to fail again, and the cycle continues.

Also the management of the Soi is poor according to feedback and that has to be expected here, because that is usually the norm, with just a few exceptions.

Last night the Soi was just about devoid of farangs, yet after the live band came on for its second session there were 30 farangs with 5 Thais in tow at the two bars next to the band.........and this would have been about four times the amount in the rest of the Soi. Some folk did enjoy a dance, and these were certainly in the "middle-aged" bracket.

I guess this does show that some people like that type of live music and appreciate the band for what it is (and I elicited feedback from many of the people there and they thought the band was good and they thoroughly enjoyed themselves) however not everybody appreciates everyone else's type or style of music, so that's just one of those things.

It was said that when the band comes on, the other bar owners turn off their speakers, well that is just not the case because the speakers are connected to the DJs console and when they are playing their stuff, the speakers are active, however when the live band comes on those speakers are not used and the band uses its own sound system, much the same as bands do elsewhere.

The band can be heard about halfway down the Soi, so what people hear at the end near Bangla Road may well be muffled or distorted, and surely this is something that the Soi management could work on if it was Interested, which it doesn't seem to be!

So another Soi is dying, much the same as Soi Easy, Soi Gonzo, Soi Lion, The "New Tiger" in Middle Road, and countless other Sois and beer bars did, and by the looks of things the two current Tigers are struggling, and even the smaller beer bars built on where the "Living Room pool Bar" used to be don't look to have a good future.

As has been said on here, the demographics changed and were changing for a long time, yet nobody took notice, or wanted to take notice and thought that the good times would roll on forever, but we know they don't.

[TacoHell]

Business owners with the fortitude to survive and change through this temporary crisis are licking their chops. Competitors closing.

This downturn will see huge and hopefully the right kinds of investment in Phuket.

If all the sex bars closed in Phuket, does anyone really care? Not really.

Spoken like a true management consultant.

Temporary crisis? You think?

2-3 years.

The big pink elephant in the room and nobody talks about is the immigration issue with foreigners on dodgy visas. Rightfully so.

Do you think the landowners give a toss? They don't.

Can Thai people wait it out? Yes.

Can Farang? Not many, but some will.

Phuket has needed an attitude adjustment for a long time. Hopefully, it will be for the better.

[KarenBravo]

Just who do you think will be the new customers?

What has Westerners on dodgy visas got to do with it?

[schlog]

Maybe if they play the Casino card then they can stop this downturn in 2-3 years. In my opinion you have to look further maybe 10-15 years till the sun is shinnig on HKT again.

Came back from a Vienna/Frankfurt trip, wasn't there more then 7 years. I was really shocked how cheap the most things are exempt properties. With the amount i spend here every month i will also do fine in Europe. This wasn't the case 7,14 years or 20 years ago.

Patong ist dated and overpriced but it's warmer then in Europe. Other SEA countries doing their homeworks and Thailand is dreaming...........may they wake up.

[NamKangMan]

Business owners with the fortitude to survive and change through this temporary crisis are licking their chops. Competitors closing.

This downturn will see huge and hopefully the right kinds of investment in Phuket.

If all the sex bars closed in Phuket, does anyone really care? Not really.

Spoken like a true management consultant.

Temporary crisis? You think?

2-3 years.

The big pink elephant in the room and nobody talks about is the immigration issue with foreigners on dodgy visas. Rightfully so.

Do you think the landowners give a toss? They don't.

Can Thai people wait it out? Yes.

Can Farang? Not many, but some will.

Phuket has needed an attitude adjustment for a long time. Hopefully, it will be for the better.

"The big pink elephant in the room and nobody talks about is the immigration issue with foreigners on dodgy visas." - huh????

[NamKangMan]

Maybe if they play the Casino card then they can stop this downturn in 2-3 years. In my opinion you have to look further maybe 10-15 years till the sun is shinnig on HKT again.

Came back from a Vienna/Frankfurt trip, wasn't there more then 7 years. I was really shocked how cheap the most things are exempt properties. With the amount i spend here every month i will also do fine in Europe. This wasn't the case 7,14 years or 20 years ago.

Patong ist dated and overpriced but it's warmer then in Europe. Other SEA countries doing their homeworks and Thailand is dreaming...........may they wake up.

"Maybe if they play the Casino card then they can stop this downturn" - they are already behind Cambodia, Vietnam and of course, Macau, for gambling.

This is one in Vietnam.

http://www.thegrandhotram.com/

This is one in Cambodia.

http://www.nagaworld.com/

If casinos were built on Phuket, why do you think it would be good for local businesses?

People can gamble on Phuket now - online. (yes, it's illegal, but entirely possible, and people are doing it)

I don't think a casino would turn Phuket around. It might encourage a little more domestic tourism, if Thai's are allowed inside the casino, but I can't see it encouraging big gamblers, or even "gambling holidays." Sure, it would offer another activity on the island, but Phuket already has plenty to see and do, yet has a rapidly declining western market.

It's all the BS that surrounds these activities, beaches, tourist atractions, restaurants etc etc that is repelling western tourists.

Put simply. Phuket no longer offers a value for money and pleasant holiday.

[xylophone]

Quote Lashay: "Sounds like you prefer something more like a cocktail/piano/jazz bar type of thing (something else missing from Bangla)".

Yes, that is something missing from Bangla, however I'm not sure that is the place for it, perhaps better in an upmarket restaurant or lounge type setting.....nice thought though (although I wouldn't be a regular visitor and I wonder if there would be many who would visit, now that the demographics have changed quite markedly for the worse?).

My music tastes are a bit eclectic, and I like what I hear from the Filipino band in the Soi because they cover a range of songs from the likes of Bon Jovi, Whitesnake, Tina Turner, Adele, The Cranberries, CCR, Bryan Adams, Guns n' Roses, Whitney Houston, The Kinks, Thin Lizzy, Cold Chisel, The Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Texas, Journey and AC/DC (whom I don't like) to name but a few.

I guess not everyone is going to be satisfied with what they hear in various pubs and clubs, but that's life!

[The Big Mango]

Well for sure Phuket Town hasn't got the memo yet.

Currently in the Pint Factory @ Limelight and its busy as hell.

Quick head count , 70 people plus and Im the only Foreigner here at the moment.

And the beer aint cheap , every bottle circa 200thb , but decent imported stuff.

[Lashay]

Malaysian tenant, it's going to be one big bar with a live band so I'm told and not like his other establishments in soi Sea Dragon he runs

So is who i thought, wonder if he paid the crazy money they wanted from bamboo, if that's case going to take him a long time to make the money back. But should be interesting to watch, even though like everyone he is suffering atm, his gogo's are consistently considered the best in town. Be interesting to see where band he brings in are from (and be interesting to see what he is planning, currently his bar counter looks like it will be blocking the entrance?!?)

Though, imo the Live Band concept is getting overdone now (even bloody Best Western has one most nights singing to empty bar), so if he wants to stand out they will have to be pretty spectacular.

Bamboo - hadn't been there in 6 months or so, but at that time, it was dead, the band wasn't very good, and the beers were way overpriced. Wasn't surprised that it has closed.

They decided they were not renewing around new years, shortly after main singers and lot of their good staff left. Went downhill fast from that point. Before that it was generally top 2 in customers in the live band bars

Well for sure Phuket Town hasn't got the memo yet.

Currently in the Pint Factory @ Limelight and its busy as hell.

Quick head count , 70 people plus and Im the only Foreigner here at the moment.

And the beer aint cheap , every bottle circa 200thb , but decent imported stuff.

Not familiar with place but guessing it is not exactly a tourist destination? More expats and wealthier Thai's?

But, after looking online at pics it does not surprise me that people are not fussed at prices as it looks like a decent city gastro bar that would not be out of place in London or New York.

But that brings us back to the price issue in Patong, while some will always complain until prices go back to 30 baht for a beer and 500 baht for LT, majority of rest would be happy with higher prices if they got value for money and/or quality in exchange. But both are sadly lacking in Patong (in both bars and restaurants).

Patong has always tried to place it's self as a more up market Pattaya. When both places were just all cheap beer bars, the lack of development, nice beaches made that easy. But over the last 20 years Patt's has improved venues quite a bit (they can do nothing about beach or the more sleeezy customers), kept lower prices, while Phuket just got overdeveloped and bars remained in vast majority of cases, ramshackle rundown places. If just all the front bars on Bangla were up to the level of this pint factory looks (but hopefully not same design, not to my taste) they could easily justify the prices.

Thailand in general, Patong in particular, wants "quality tourists", but they offer little quality in return

[eisfeld]

Well for sure Phuket Town hasn't got the memo yet.

Currently in the Pint Factory @ Limelight and its busy as hell.

Quick head count , 70 people plus and Im the only Foreigner here at the moment.

And the beer aint cheap , every bottle circa 200thb , but decent imported stuff.

Phuket town has a hand full of (mostly relatively new) establishments like this which locals like to frequent. They are clean, nicely designed, have good quality drinks and food, nice relaxed atmosphere and most importantly: no scumbags (falang and thai) to be seen.

I'm happy to pay the price for that and seems like there is a lot of other people who think the same, these venues do quite well.

[KarenBravo]

Well for sure Phuket Town hasn't got the memo yet.

Currently in the Pint Factory @ Limelight and its busy as hell.

Quick head count , 70 people plus and Im the only Foreigner here at the moment.

And the beer aint cheap , every bottle circa 200thb , but decent imported stuff.

Phuket town has a hand full of (mostly relatively new) establishments like this which locals like to frequent. They are clean, nicely designed, have good quality drinks and food, nice relaxed atmosphere and most importantly: no scumbags (falang and thai) to be seen.

I'm happy to pay the price for that and seems like there is a lot of other people who think the same, these venues do quite well.

Yeah, just get stabbed, shot, clubbed on the way home (if you're on a motorbike).

[NamKangMan]

Well for sure Phuket Town hasn't got the memo yet.

Currently in the Pint Factory @ Limelight and its busy as hell.

Quick head count , 70 people plus and Im the only Foreigner here at the moment.

And the beer aint cheap , every bottle circa 200thb , but decent imported stuff.

Phuket town has a hand full of (mostly relatively new) establishments like this which locals like to frequent. They are clean, nicely designed, have good quality drinks and food, nice relaxed atmosphere and most importantly: no scumbags (falang and thai) to be seen.

I'm happy to pay the price for that and seems like there is a lot of other people who think the same, these venues do quite well.

Yeah, just get stabbed, shot, clubbed on the way home (if you're on a motorbike).

Ahhhh, yes, that old Phuket transport issue, AGAIN.

It's one of the main reasons Phuket "is dead."

[NamKangMan]

Malaysian tenant, it's going to be one big bar with a live band so I'm told and not like his other establishments in soi Sea Dragon he runs

So is who i thought, wonder if he paid the crazy money they wanted from bamboo, if that's case going to take him a long time to make the money back. But should be interesting to watch, even though like everyone he is suffering atm, his gogo's are consistently considered the best in town. Be interesting to see where band he brings in are from (and be interesting to see what he is planning, currently his bar counter looks like it will be blocking the entrance?!?)

Though, imo the Live Band concept is getting overdone now (even bloody Best Western has one most nights singing to empty bar), so if he wants to stand out they will have to be pretty spectacular.

Bamboo - hadn't been there in 6 months or so, but at that time, it was dead, the band wasn't very good, and the beers were way overpriced. Wasn't surprised that it has closed.

They decided they were not renewing around new years, shortly after main singers and lot of their good staff left. Went downhill fast from that point. Before that it was generally top 2 in customers in the live band bars

Well for sure Phuket Town hasn't got the memo yet.

Currently in the Pint Factory @ Limelight and its busy as hell.

Quick head count , 70 people plus and Im the only Foreigner here at the moment.

And the beer aint cheap , every bottle circa 200thb , but decent imported stuff.

Not familiar with place but guessing it is not exactly a tourist destination? More expats and wealthier Thai's?

But, after looking online at pics it does not surprise me that people are not fussed at prices as it looks like a decent city gastro bar that would not be out of place in London or New York.

But that brings us back to the price issue in Patong, while some will always complain until prices go back to 30 baht for a beer and 500 baht for LT, majority of rest would be happy with higher prices if they got value for money and/or quality in exchange. But both are sadly lacking in Patong (in both bars and restaurants).

Patong has always tried to place it's self as a more up market Pattaya. When both places were just all cheap beer bars, the lack of development, nice beaches made that easy. But over the last 20 years Patt's has improved venues quite a bit (they can do nothing about beach or the more sleeezy customers), kept lower prices, while Phuket just got overdeveloped and bars remained in vast majority of cases, ramshackle rundown places. If just all the front bars on Bangla were up to the level of this pint factory looks (but hopefully not same design, not to my taste) they could easily justify the prices.

Thailand in general, Patong in particular, wants "quality tourists", but they offer little quality in return

"Thailand in general, Patong in particular, wants "quality tourists", but they offer little quality in return" - correct.

The same old outdoor, brick built bars, with a row of bar stools, and some overhead fans, but now with a lot higher prices.

And who is the recipient of the majority of the extra prices - the greedy Thai landlords, and it's all surrounded by scams, extortion, collusion, lack of infastructure and corruption.

[grumpyoldman]

Bust out you chopsticks and get your Ramen Burger on !

And yes, I do believe you'll see a Phuket Town rennaissance as Patong becomes a complete bore.

[eisfeld]

Well for sure Phuket Town hasn't got the memo yet.

Currently in the Pint Factory @ Limelight and its busy as hell.

Quick head count , 70 people plus and Im the only Foreigner here at the moment.

And the beer aint cheap , every bottle circa 200thb , but decent imported stuff.

Phuket town has a hand full of (mostly relatively new) establishments like this which locals like to frequent. They are clean, nicely designed, have good quality drinks and food, nice relaxed atmosphere and most importantly: no scumbags (falang and thai) to be seen.

I'm happy to pay the price for that and seems like there is a lot of other people who think the same, these venues do quite well.

Yeah, just get stabbed, shot, clubbed on the way home (if you're on a motorbike).

Hehe yes normally I'd agree with you but I drive a big bike and wear a full face helmet and I think that keeps you out of most of the trouble you are hinting at. At least I never had any issue whatsoever over the years while a friend on a scooter got robbed.

I would not be comfortable on a scooter in the night in Phuket Town.

[illy]

The malaise isn't just the bars.

I went over to Patong yesterday at about four in the afternoon. First time in three months, or so.

I rode from the south end of beach road to Soi Bangla and I only saw 30 to 40 tourists, most of them Chinese, or Korean. Quite shocking how empty the place was.

Met a friend who is part owner in a successful hotel that has been here since the late eighties.

He said that last high season was the worst ever.....and they have a lot of repeat guests. He figured profits were down 20%. He guestimates that other hotels were down 50%.

He, like many others are dreading next high season.

Once per week I travel through Patong around 12.30 at night on the way home from work [live music performing] and each week it seems to get increasingly quiet. Usually when driving around Bangla area the traffic gets very slow due to so many people walking/staggering around on the road...seems now the traffic flows just fine and there are almost no people on the streets and most places seems empty...the streets are now completely full of stationary tuk tuks now parking reversed into/90 degrees to the kerb taking even more space for thru traffic.

In 8 years I have never seen Patong so quiet at nightime when it used to come alive, but I guess its a case of som nam na.

[The Big Mango]

Was there last night with some friends , and I definately agree the place is really quite generally.

That said , Seduction was packed full . There was probably more people in there than the entire rest of all the bars on bangla.

[pistachios]

Rawai is struggling too : a pharmacy I know is seeing a drop of almost 50% in sales compared to last year.

They used to sell a lot of herbal stuff and expensive creams on top of brand name medicine, nowadays most customers come straight for the cheapest generic medicine.

It seems like tourists are fewer, have less money to spend, and on top of that at least 4 pharmacies have opened since last year in the area, so the customer base is even more diluted.

[phuketlive]

Was in soi post office near the beach of patong yesterday, at least 6 shops for rent or sale, that's a lot.

Rent is probably high anyway, owner thinking it has to be expensive for that area but not a lot of money to be made now...

Surprised so many tattoo shops or massage still open for so little tourists.

[robertthebruce]

Suits me big time, everywhere is quiet, so calm out on the Scooter or in the Car.....

A nice change......

[NamKangMan]

Spoke to a legit Thai receptionist friend today. Her hotel, which is reasonably large, and is in Patong, catered for the Russians.

She was always complaining about them, but she took the job, and remained in the job, because it paid a bigger salary than her last hotel.

No Russians in her hotel these days, and some staff have already been laid off.

She now has concerns for her own job, and her chances of finding a new one.

[xylophone]

Of course they can walk away.

If the business is losing money, better to close, call the key money a loss and save the monthly rent.

Think of it this way.....the key money is just a license to lose more money. It's gone whichever way you look at it.

You think running the business at a loss is better?

That's logic, but when you have 7 to 25 million in key money (9 year contracts remember), your house (most have bank loans) on the line, not so easy to go by logic. Hope for a better tomorrow will keep you in there

Oh dear..........not a good situation to be in.

I'm sure that 90% of the businesses on this island just operate to support the land-lord.

"I'm sure that 90% of the businesses on this island just operate to support the land-lord." - I agree.

Most business owners are just slaves to greedy Thai landlords, and financially locked in.

Agree with this, especially as I now know how it works.

When I first came here I had no idea about "key money" because the concept was totally alien to me and it wasn't until it was explained by my bar owner friend that I finally cottoned on.

The landlords have already pocketed a few years key money and don't really mind if the bar owners walk away, because they can always resell it to another punter, which involves more key money upfront, and if they walk away, then more money in the bank and another chance to on sell again, and so the ruse continues.

The sad part is that there always seems to be another buyer, no matter how badly the previous bar or Soi has been performing, however even that source of continual income seems to be drying up and I wonder how long it will be before that merry-go-round stops.

One hopes that the landlords will be the architects of their own demise in the years to come, but then do they really mind if they have pocketed enough cash to make a huge profit on their initial investment?

[NamKangMan]

@ xp

"but then do they really mind if they have pocketed enough cash to make a huge profit on their initial investment?" - it would depend where they have invested that "pocketed cash."

Say a Thai Landlord made a lot of money over the years turning over the key money from unprofitable bars to stary eyed farang bar owners.

If he took that cash and built a hotel/s on Phuket with it, I would say he may have some problems in the future, because not only will his bars be without tenants, but also his hotel/s, and if the hotel/s have a good occupancy rate, chances are it will be bargain basement room prices to the Chinese, making minimal profit.

Maybe he bought, or built, more bars. He will definately be facing a problem here in the near future.

It all depends what he has done with all that revenue.

[xylophone]

On that note, talking about hotels etc, I noticed that there are a couple that have closed down on Soi Banzaan.

One was previously called "Siam hotel" and the other was owned by an Italian guy and was right next to the horrible unfinished eyesore of what was going to be a hotel, which juts out into the middle of the road.

In addition, the recently opened Italian restaurant which was situated next to what used to be the Beachhouse has just closed for a long holiday, apparently re-opening at the end of October. Not surprising really, as never saw more than a handful of people in there anyway and if things don't improve this coming "high season" then I doubt that this will be a long-term addition to Nanai Road.

And to complete a really depressing day, it looks as if the investors in the "Ace" condominium development will be struggling to get any money back, however I really hope my reading of the situation is wrong and that some money can be returned to the investors, this because no money has seemingly been spent on any ground work whatsoever, unlike the development by Phanason in Nanai Road (The Park), which does have some structures built on it, and has been pretty well idle for around 9 months.

To end on an entirely different note, what has happened to the previous mayors "icon" on Patong Hill, which seems to be being broken up by jackhammers?

[DrDave]

<snip>

To end on an entirely different note, what has happened to the previous mayors "icon" on Patong Hill, which seems to be being broken up by jackhammers?

Wife tells me that the former Keesin monument on the hill will now be used as a temporary parking area for disabled vehicles. Not sure how much truth there is to that, though.

[NamKangMan]

On that note, talking about hotels etc, I noticed that there are a couple that have closed down on Soi Banzaan.

One was previously called "Siam hotel" and the other was owned by an Italian guy and was right next to the horrible unfinished eyesore of what was going to be a hotel, which juts out into the middle of the road.

In addition, the recently opened Italian restaurant which was situated next to what used to be the Beachhouse has just closed for a long holiday, apparently re-opening at the end of October. Not surprising really, as never saw more than a handful of people in there anyway and if things don't improve this coming "high season" then I doubt that this will be a long-term addition to Nanai Road.

And to complete a really depressing day, it looks as if the investors in the "Ace" condominium development will be struggling to get any money back, however I really hope my reading of the situation is wrong and that some money can be returned to the investors, this because no money has seemingly been spent on any ground work whatsoever, unlike the development by Phanason in Nanai Road (The Park), which does have some structures built on it, and has been pretty well idle for around 9 months.

To end on an entirely different note, what has happened to the previous mayors "icon" on Patong Hill, which seems to be being broken up by jackhammers?

I could be wrong, but I was told the owner of the Italian restaurant on Nanai Road had the business plan of closing during "low season" and opening during "high season" but, as you suggest, after the next high season, he may be closed permanently.

Most businesses in that Banzaan / Nanai Road area are really struggling now.

[phuketlive]

"the other was owned by an Italian guy and was right next to the horrible unfinished eyesore of what was going to be a hotel, which juts out into the middle of the road"

Bucintoro the restaurant is being renovated, they will reopen probably this month they said.

They do ok, lots of italians go there, pizza is good, they've been there a long time.

But the other pizza on nanai, pizza connection, his place is very quiet, does not make much money i guess...

[LivinginKata]

<snip>

Most businesses in that Banzaan / Nanai Road area are really struggling now.

Seems to me that the tourists/long stay visitors who used to stay in the Nanai area have mostly migrated to the new road as it saves a taxi ride to/from the Bangla area.

[xylophone]

"the other was owned by an Italian guy and was right next to the horrible unfinished eyesore of what was going to be a hotel, which juts out into the middle of the road"

Bucintoro the restaurant is being renovated, they will reopen probably this month they said.

They do ok, lots of italians go there, pizza is good, they've been there a long time.

But the other pizza on nanai, pizza connection, his place is very quiet, does not make much money i guess...

Was there not a guesthouse/boutique hotel above it as well?

I remember when the pizza connection place was very popular, Michele (spelling?) was the owner then I think, and he sold it two or three years ago.

As NKM has said, businesses in the Banzaan/Nanai Road area are struggling.

[phuketlive]

Bucintoro does restaurant and guesthouse too yes, they will reopen everything i guess.