Patong is dead.

[Sharp]

Patong is dying due to various reasons and the transport debacle is definitely one of them... Imagine everytime you leave the hotel with your family it's a mission not to constantly get ripped off by these maggots... I was talking to a friend last week who was staying in Kalim with his family and told me everytime they want to leave the hotel for Patong, shopping or the beach it's 500b one way , sometimes the teenage kids want to go without the parents and visa versa, more than once a day.. It's turns out to be extremely expensive and draining hence his comments 'we will be trying Pattaya next time.

[Lokie]

All valid points being made, I used to love it here but now maybe I am just waiting to make the change to somewhere else with less of the hassles... best bit of advice I got from an old timer a few years ago was Don't buy a place here, just rent and if things ever get to where you aint happy just pack your bag and go, boy am I glad I did not do the buy a place thing and get involved with anything that would hold me back if I wanted to move on. As like many my thoughts was retire and shoot the breeze here in Patong/Phuket but now, Im not so sure, but we will live in hope (not having a pop at anyone who owns a business/home here, I wish you all well with it BTW)

Is just a shame the Thai people who could affect the change do not take the correct long term look at things, always seems to be short term greed and corruption that leads the way, how to destroy a paradise in quick order?

[grumpyoldman]

Patong is dying due to various reasons and the transport debacle is definitely one of them... Imagine everytime you leave the hotel with your family it's a mission not to constantly get ripped off by these maggots... I was talking to a friend last week who was staying in Kalim with his family and told me everytime they want to leave the hotel for Patong, shopping or the beach it's 500b one way , sometimes the teenage kids want to go without the parents and visa versa, more than once a day.. It's turns out to be extremely expensive and draining hence his comments 'we will be trying Pattaya next time.

Ah yea, those teenage kids will be A-O.K. in Pattaya

[Rawaiman]

Rawai/Naiharn have been pretty dead too

[johnatong]

Strange !

We have many friends from many countries who return at least once per year but you will not see them on Bangla !

[Gutenberg]

Any tourist that worries about the cost of transportation, isn't the "quality" tourist that the TAT are seeking.

The most tourists who spend freely do not have money.

The most tourists who have money do not spend freely.

[KarenBravo]

Any tourist that worries about the cost of transportation, isn't the "quality" tourist that the TAT are seeking.

The most tourists who spend freely do not have money.

The most tourists who have money do not spend freely.

Nice sound-bite. Pity it isn't true.

[johnatong]

Any tourist that worries about the cost of transportation, isn't the "quality" tourist that the TAT are seeking.

The most tourists who spend freely do not have money.

The most tourists who have money do not spend freely.

Nice sound-bite. Pity it isn't true.

Said by someone from the two week "millionaire" class ?

It needs brains to work out the truth and wisdom contained in the "sound bite" .

[AJBangkok]

Any tourist that worries about the cost of transportation, isn't the "quality" tourist that the TAT are seeking.

I respectfully disagree. I consider myself a quality tourist but that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to fair value for my money, or that I can't realize when I'm being ripped off.for example I enjoy a nice Sunday brunch and have no problems paying 7500 for 2 at the Banyan tree or even higher at Trisara, what really annoys me is when some ripoff taxi mafia wants to charge me 1200 baht for the 5 minute drive from the banyan tree to my condo because we have a baby pram.

As for the other posters solution that I consider it only 400 per person so what am I "w*anking" about, I'd ask if he really actually would be happy to listen to his own advice if he ever had the misfortune of experiencing a similar situation where it was him and his family involved.

[KarenBravo]

Any tourist that worries about the cost of transportation, isn't the "quality" tourist that the TAT are seeking.

The most tourists who spend freely do not have money.

The most tourists who have money do not spend freely.

Nice sound-bite. Pity it isn't true.

Said by someone from the two week "millionaire" class ?

It needs brains to work out the truth and wisdom contained in the "sound bite" .

Well, well. Mr. Pants-on-fire.

No, it takes brains to distinguish a throw-away sound-bite from the truth.

[KarenBravo]

Any tourist that worries about the cost of transportation, isn't the "quality" tourist that the TAT are seeking.

I respectfully disagree. I consider myself a quality tourist but that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to fair value for my money, or that I can't realize when I'm being ripped off.for example I enjoy a nice Sunday brunch and have no problems paying 7500 for 2 at the Banyan tree or even higher at Trisara, what really annoys me is when some ripoff taxi mafia wants to charge me 1200 baht for the 5 minute drive from the banyan tree to my condo because we have a baby pram.

As for the other posters solution that I consider it only 400 per person so what am I "w*anking" about, I'd ask if he really actually would be happy to listen to his own advice if he ever had the misfortune of experiencing a similar situation where it was him and his family involved.

My statement doesn't express my personal opinion. The clue is in the last five words of the sentence.

Edited April 3, 2016 by KarenBravo

[Lumbini]

The place has gone downhill for last 5+ years with overbuilding and turning in to a real low budget tourist destination loosing so much of its natural beauty and beaches from yesteryear's . Everything changes and in Thailand where there are no rules or caring from locals when it comes to paving paradise for parking lots , condos and building ANYTHING goes that makes money . [emoji445][emoji445][emoji445] don't it always seem to go , you don't know what you got till its gone , they paved paradise and put up a parking lot .

Simple Definition of paradise

: a very beautiful, pleasant, or peaceful place that seems to be perfect

Edited April 3, 2016 by Lumbini

[Gutenberg]

Any tourist that worries about the cost of transportation, isn't the "quality" tourist that the TAT are seeking.

The most tourists who spend freely do not have money.

The most tourists who have money do not spend freely.

Nice sound-bite. Pity it isn't true.

Sure it's true, because the people with wealth value money and the others just don't have. Of course there is a small portion so stuffed with wealth that they do not care but they will hardly use the mafia transport system anyway. So, statements is valid, most of them just don't.

Recently a neighbor bought a 4 mb house, Thai style "clone house". I was invited into his house, it was nicely furnished, newest TV screen, daughter visiting Darasmut and had a "Germany" T-Shirt on (going to private Tutor learning German) and iPhone in hand, besides a van he got a pickup standing in front of his door. It came out he was driving taxi, nothing else, mostly airport, his wife unemployed.

Then I remember the taxi guys driving the Mercedes Benz in my country of origin, making hardly minimum wage.

[Lumbini]

y

Simple Definition of paradise

: a very beautiful, pleasant, or peaceful place that seems to be perfect

[Gutenberg]

The place has gone downhill for last 5+ years with overbuilding and turning in to a real low budget tourist destination loosing so much of its natural beauty and beaches from yesteryear's . Everything changes and in Thailand where there are no rules or caring from locals when it comes to paving paradise for parking lots , condos and building ANYTHING goes that makes money . [emoji445][emoji445][emoji445] don't it always seem to go , you don't know what you got till its gone , they paved paradise and put up a parking lot .

Simple Definition of paradise

: a very beautiful, pleasant, or peaceful place that seems to be perfect ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1459680018.001054.jpgImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1459680032.046376.jpg

[KarenBravo]

Any tourist that worries about the cost of transportation, isn't the "quality" tourist that the TAT are seeking.

The most tourists who spend freely do not have money.

The most tourists who have money do not spend freely.

Nice sound-bite. Pity it isn't true.

Sure it's true, because the people with wealth value money and the others just don't have. Of course there is a small portion so stuffed with wealth that they do not care but they will hardly use the mafia transport system anyway. So, statements is valid, most of them just don't.

Recently a neighbor bought a 4 mb house, Thai style "clone house". I was invited into his house, it was nicely furnished, newest TV screen, daughter visiting Darasmut and had a "Germany" T-Shirt on (going to private Tutor learning German) and iPhone in hand, besides a van he got a pickup standing in front of his door. It came out he was driving taxi, nothing else, mostly airport, his wife unemployed.

Then I remember the taxi guys driving the Mercedes Benz in my country of origin, making hardly minimum wage.

To put your sound-bite into plain English:-

Those who don't have much money are free-spenders.

Those that have lots of money are not free spenders.

You see how dumb that is? Even if you accept the dubious generalization.

[Lumbini]

Thanks Gutenberg again $ wins and paradise gets trashed [emoji87]

[jamie obda]

Patong is changing, as inevitably everything must. I like Chalong, though. Regardless, I'm taking my US$ to Cebu/Boracay/Bohol and other outlying islands this year.

[KarenBravo]

Patong is changing, as inevitably everything must. I like Chalong, though. Regardless, I'm taking my US$ to Cebu/Boracay/Bohol and other outlying islands this year.

Enjoy the food.

[xylophone]

A quick update whilst not trying to drag out the "yawn fest".............

There's always going to be people on Bangla Road because of what it is and what it offers, but not so on the Patong "perimeters" as witnessed by the closed shops and the empty restaurants.

The recently reopened chemist shop at the bottom of Soi Nanai 6 has closed again, whilst the recently opened "Tiger group restaurant" opposite, which has been more than a year in the making, has not had one single customer in it for the past three weeks.

Custom at the bars along Nanai has been "sporadic" at best, with a couple up for sale again.

The roller blinds are down on quite a few of these type of shops in various locations including Beach Road, Soi Banzaan and Soi Sainamyen to name but a few, and some of these style shops have never actually opened, especially at the end of the "new middle road".

So bearing this in mind, it looks very much like someone is building some "mini" bars at the front of the new Makro dry goods building which replaced some other bars when they were knocked down. Quite how customers are going to fit in these places is a bit of a mystery, and indeed even if they could would they really want to be sitting right on the edge of the road enjoying a dusty, diesel fumed beer?

Looking a little further afield (I know it's not Patong but all the same)......... I took the ex and her daughter into Phuket town the other day to buy the daughter a new school uniform and dropped her and her mother off at the appropriate shop whilst I looked for somewhere to park the car. Found somewhere about a block away and as I was walking towards the shop, I passed a Tuk Tuk parked at the side of the road, and as I was walking by, the driver leaned out and asked if I wanted a Tuk Tuk, to which I replied no thank you, and he in pretty good English said that business was very bad and he hadn't had a customer in many days, and then put his thumb and forefinger up in front of me, rubbing them together and suggested I could give him some money!

Never had that happen before, so it would appear that the "bad times" in Patong are not just confined to Patong alone?

Edited April 7, 2016 by xylophone

[DrDave]

<snip>

The recently reopened chemist shop at the bottom of Soi Nanai 6 has closed again, whilst the recently opened "Tiger group restaurant" opposite, which has been more than a year in the making, has not had one single customer in it for the past three weeks.

<snip>

So bearing this in mind, it looks very much like someone is building some "mini" bars at the front of the new Makro dry goods building which replaced some other bars when they were knocked down. Quite how customers are going to fit in these places is a bit of a mystery, and indeed even if they could would they really want to be sitting right on the edge of the road enjoying a dusty, diesel fumed beer?

<snip>

The new Tiger Group restaurant is certainly puzzling. When they first "opened", they had a chalkboard outside listing some sort of bar promotion. That lasted 2 or 3 days. I've never seen a customer in there, and haven't seen any staff past the first couple of days. On very rare occasions, I might see a couple of Thai guys sitting at a table talking - probably Tiger employees. Now it seems they don't either bother to open, as every evening, the black plastic netting surrounding the building is up. They spent a great deal of money on the build-out of that place only to be doing zero business there. Laundromat comes to mind.

As for what's going on in front of Makro, MrsDave tells me that Don's BBQ is moving there, based on conversations she's had with Don's staff. Last week, the story was that Don was going to shut down and the current building would be renovated. This week, the story was that the current building is going to be demolished, and he's moving into the space being built in front of Makro. Don told me quite some time ago that he would be building a new bar in front of Makro, so who knows? The glassed-in area at the end looks like it could be a kitchen/grill area, so maybe that's the case. I guess we'll find out soon enough as it looks to be completed shortly.

[LivinginKata]

<snip>

As for what's going on in front of Makro, MrsDave tells me that Don's BBQ is moving there, based on conversations she's had with Don's staff. Last week, the story was that Don was going to shut down and the current building would be renovated. This week, the story was that the current building is going to be demolished, and he's moving into the space being built in front of Makro. Don told me quite some time ago that he would be building a new bar in front of Makro, so who knows? The glassed-in area at the end looks like it could be a kitchen/grill area, so maybe that's the case. I guess we'll find out soon enough as it looks to be completed shortly.

I had pretty much guessed that Don would be moving in there. Quite a small area, but I guess he can make it work.

[xylophone]

<snip>

As for what's going on in front of Makro, MrsDave tells me that Don's BBQ is moving there, based on conversations she's had with Don's staff. Last week, the story was that Don was going to shut down and the current building would be renovated. This week, the story was that the current building is going to be demolished, and he's moving into the space being built in front of Makro. Don told me quite some time ago that he would be building a new bar in front of Makro, so who knows? The glassed-in area at the end looks like it could be a kitchen/grill area, so maybe that's the case. I guess we'll find out soon enough as it looks to be completed shortly.

I had pretty much guessed that Don would be moving in there. Quite a small area, but I guess he can make it work.

Maybe he's moving just the BBQ bit there??

The new "spaces" in front of Makro are only about 2m in depth so absolutely no way that he could fit a bar, cooking/BBQ area and customer seating in there, along with TVs etc AND staff??????

Intriguing to say the least..............

Same same with the Tiger restaurant; never seen a soul in there and anyway the restaurant just metres away across the road closed after 2 months due to lack of customers, so that should have been a sign surely?

[spidermike007]

The recent TAT focus on Chinese tourists is going to turn out to be a mega disaster of epic proportions. And the disaster known as Prayuth is sabotaging western tourism on a daily basis with his churlish and petulant comments about foreigners. So, what else can be expected? Tourism is way, way down nationwide. Unless you count the Chinese, which the TAT counts but the hotels, restaurants, gift shops, bars and other tourist businesses do not count. Only 7/11 benefits from most of them.

And the fact that Patong is dead should not be surprising. Sooner or later most were going to discover that it was an overpriced, epic wasteland.

Edited April 7, 2016 by spidermike007

[johnatong]

The recent TAT focus on Chinese tourists is going to turn out to be a mega disaster of epic proportions. And the disaster known as Prayuth is sabotaging western tourism on a daily basis with his churlish and petulant comments about foreigners. So, what else can be expected? Tourism is way, way down nationwide. Unless you count the Chinese, which the TAT counts but the hotels, restaurants, gift shops, bars and other tourist businesses do not count. Only 7/11 benefits from most of them.

And the fact that Patong is dead should not be surprising. Sooner or later most were going to discover that it was an overpriced, epic wasteland.

Are you saying that a hotel full of 'invisible' Chinese Tourists is in fact empty and the hotel management have no idea that they are there ?

Where do you get the figures which support the statement "Tourism is way, way down nationwide" ?

In fact about 5.5 million European tourists visited Thailand in 2015.

[spidermike007]

The recent TAT focus on Chinese tourists is going to turn out to be a mega disaster of epic proportions. And the disaster known as Prayuth is sabotaging western tourism on a daily basis with his churlish and petulant comments about foreigners. So, what else can be expected? Tourism is way, way down nationwide. Unless you count the Chinese, which the TAT counts but the hotels, restaurants, gift shops, bars and other tourist businesses do not count. Only 7/11 benefits from most of them.

And the fact that Patong is dead should not be surprising. Sooner or later most were going to discover that it was an overpriced, epic wasteland.

Are you saying that a hotel full of 'invisible' Chinese Tourists is in fact empty and the hotel management have no idea that they are there ?

Where do you get the figures which support the statement "Tourism is way, way down nationwide" ?

In fact about 5.5 million European tourists visited Thailand in 2015.

I get that statement from the GM of an Amari hotel, who is a good friend. Also, from the dozens of restaurant, hotel, travel agents, and bar owners I speak with from time to time. All say the same thing. The numbers are up. But, that is only due to the massive influx of Chinese tourists. All business is down, except for a few hotels and restaurants that cater to them. And all of that business is heavily discounted to the tour operators. And nearly all of that money goes back to China. So, business is down. No doubt about that. And don't ever forget. Counted with that 5.5 million figure you specified, are visa runs, business visas, etc. Fudging is the top talent of the TAT.

[xylophone]

The recent TAT focus on Chinese tourists is going to turn out to be a mega disaster of epic proportions. And the disaster known as Prayuth is sabotaging western tourism on a daily basis with his churlish and petulant comments about foreigners. So, what else can be expected? Tourism is way, way down nationwide. Unless you count the Chinese, which the TAT counts but the hotels, restaurants, gift shops, bars and other tourist businesses do not count. Only 7/11 benefits from most of them.

And the fact that Patong is dead should not be surprising. Sooner or later most were going to discover that it was an overpriced, epic wasteland.

Are you saying that a hotel full of 'invisible' Chinese Tourists is in fact empty and the hotel management have no idea that they are there ?

Where do you get the figures which support the statement "Tourism is way, way down nationwide" ?

In fact about 5.5 million European tourists visited Thailand in 2015.

I get that statement from the GM of an Amari hotel, who is a good friend. Also, from the dozens of restaurant, hotel, travel agents, and bar owners I speak with from time to time. All say the same thing. The numbers are up. But, that is only due to the massive influx of Chinese tourists. All business is down, except for a few hotels and restaurants that cater to them. And all of that business is heavily discounted to the tour operators. And nearly all of that money goes back to China. So, business is down. No doubt about that. And don't ever forget. Counted with that 5.5 million figure you specified, are visa runs, business visas, etc. Fudging is the top talent of the TAT.

Have to agree with "spidermike007" on this as I too have spoken to quite a few business owners and all are saying the same; irrespective of the numbers of Chinese milling around the place, spend is absolutely and definitely down.

At one time prior to the Chinese invasion just recently the GM of Big C was lamenting the fact that his business was 20% down on last year, however when the Chinese came in force, business did pick up for a while, this especially as they were determined to fill the shopping trolleys with all sorts of rubbish, then buy cheap suitcases to transport the stuff back home, all adding to the turnover albeit in packets of dried fruit/spices/chocolates/seaweed/cosmetics and the like.

I know that bar owner takings are definitely down from everything that has been published on this thread and through bar owners I know, and of course the fact that many shops/bars/small guesthouses have closed should be another pointer.

Two hotel owners I know have said the same, however another one which caters almost exclusively for Chinese tourists is about 90% full, however is not making any where near the money it did before because it has to discount its prices quite substantially. The only person making money at that place is the shrewd Thai girl who started up a motor bike rental business, making money not only on the rentals, but the "repair bills" which are a regular feature of that business, especially when they are driven by Chinese!

And just for the record, go and have a look round Karon in the evenings and see if you can spot any tourists out spending – – two friends who live there have described it as a ghost town.

[xylophone]

The bars which are "thriving" in Bangla are those with live bands in them, so over the past few weeks a lot more bands have been appearing in various bars. It is somehow reminiscent of the pharmacies which open up in new roads, first, one which seems to be successful, then another, then another until you have about eight pharmacies in a 100 m stretch of road, all of which cannot be successful, so survival of the fittest comes into play.

There has been a live band in what used to be called margarita bar, but now "hot chilli" or something similar, for some time and of course the long established Tums bar was very popular in its heyday, and now you have live bands in Monsoon, New York, Smiley bar, Soi Freedom and a couple of folk playing music in Heroes bar, fronting Bangla, all of which vary from the very successful to the relatively successful, that is until you get to Tao which from what I have seen is struggling "mak mak".

What surprised me on my visit to Bangla yesterday was that in part of the space which was left when Soi Crocodile was demolished, is an open area like a "beer garden" which also sports a live band (on at some stage, but not sure when and don't know how they're going to cope in the rain because there is no roof on that area, unless one is in the process of being put up/constructed). Then walk past that (towards the beach) on the right-hand side and there is a whole line of bars going back into what was Soi Easy, and a band was playing somewhere down there.......IMO not a well constructed place as it was very narrow and the bars seem to be almost like one long bar with a pole about every 2 m for the girls to gyrate upon. More girls in that place last night that there were punters!

Then a little further down on the same side of the road in a place which called itself Lion, which originally sported a few bars, again not well frequented, was another band doing its utmost to entertain the very few punters in the place.

So, live bands are the order of the day, however I fear that the owners of some of these places have missed the point..........if you are going to construct a row of bars in which the girls will entertain the customers and the punters sit almost cheek to jowl, then having a live band plonked right next to them is not a good look, and if you look at the other earlier models, then there is always a space which allows some metres between the band and the customers. Even Smiley bar, which was once just an ordinary drinking bar, was extended to allow some room for the band and even a little dance floor, and of course when the Bangkok plods are not around, punters can sit on the tables out in the street, which makes it quite a good atmosphere all round. Same goes for Monsoon and New York.

On the subject of the volume of customers, well a couple of the aforementioned, well-established venues were quite well populated, but it was noticeable that overall custom was down.

I took a short cut from Rat-u-Thid Road through the back of new Tiger to get to Bangla and what was very noticeable was the amount of closed shops in that area, especially one very large, double storeyed restaurant. Now whether that has closed for songkran, I'm not sure, however it would be fair to say that none of those restaurants in that little stretch have done much in the way of business in the many times I have passed by. So restaurants and shops closing down, along with the empty bars at the back of new Tiger and resurrected Tiger surely point to a very hard low season for many, and for sure there will be more closures.

[DrDave]

<snip>

So, live bands are the order of the day, however I fear that the owners of some of these places have missed the point..........if you are going to construct a row of bars in which the girls will entertain the customers and the punters sit almost cheek to jowl, then having a live band plonked right next to them is not a good look, and if you look at the other earlier models, then there is always a space which allows some metres between the band and the customers. Even Smiley bar, which was once just an ordinary drinking bar, was extended to allow some room for the band and even a little dance floor, and of course when the Bangkok plods are not around, punters can sit on the tables out in the street, which makes it quite a good atmosphere all round. Same goes for Monsoon and New York.

<snip>.

If you go back 8-10 years or more, there weren't many places with live bands in Bangla. There was nothing like NY Live, Monsoon, RedHot and Tao, and the "clubs" were discos.

I can only recall a couple of bars that had a live band: Tum's and Coyote, both in Seadragon. I could be wrong, but I think Tum's was a double-wide bar back then, usually with a more laid-back band. Coyote was a little single-width place with a band crammed onto a tiny "stage", about a meter away from the tables. There was something about Coyote though, if you were somewhat of a regular, it was easy to get to know the band (who would occasionally switch out the guitar player and drummer). Back then, having a live band was a huge differentiator. I wouldn't say that either of these places was wildly successful, and in fact I think they both really struggled during low season.

Now, fast forward 10 years or so, and as you mention, live bands in small bars are now "the thing". I really don't know how they'll be able to turn a profit, as having a band in a small bar means they'll have to sell an additional 50 to 100 or more bottles of beer each night just to cover the cost. The bigger venues like NY Live, Monsoon and RedHot will continue to do well, as they attract a different demographic - a younger crowd that enjoys newer urban/pop music as well as a dance floor. The small bars have always relied on the "classic rock" demographic, which is becoming more and more scarce, so having more bars competing for a shrinking customer base doesn't make a lot of sense. It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out. I'm guessing that some of these small bars won't make it more than a couple of months into low season. I hope at least a couple are successful, as I fit into that shrinking demographic!

[simon43]

A quick report from outside Patong. I made a rare visit to Nai Yang Beach for lunch yesterday. The beach and sea looked great, but where were the tourists? Almost totally deserted. I chatted with the restaurant owner, who confirmed that it was the worst season that he could remember. (Although many Chinese stay in hotels near to the airport, they generally do not visit this beach because they are straight off on day tours the day after they arrive).

BTW, maybe I've become tight-arsed, but my meal of 2 milkshakes, a green curry, spring rolls and a small grilled fish came to 900 baht. I don't think that is good value at all and it is the last time that I'll visit that 'average' restaurant, (not an upmarket place etc).

My little hotel (and the other 2 that I manage) are busy, but not full now, maybe 85% occupancy, mainly Chinese and French. (The Chinese book because I seem to have a good reputation as a British 'gentleman' on the Chinese websites, the French tell me they book because they know that I can speak French...).

I was building more guest rooms, but that project can wait for next high season. Instead, I will construct a small water park area (mushroom fountain thing for the kids to play under etc).

There are a few rows of umbrellas on the beach now, which is a good improvement on being forced to sit on the sand and fight with the sand flies, (Nai Yang Beach is well known to have sand flies).

But like Patong and the rest of Phuket, I can't see any good news for the future.