Patong is dead.

[LivinginKata]

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

Patong is dead, or as I have said a few times it is definitely struggling although it will more than likely carry on as a party place for the lo-rent, bogans and Chinese, whereas it could have become the Puerto Banus or Juan Les Pins of Phuket and possibly Thailand.

<snip>

 

 

Puerto Banus ... no way Patong would ever have that sort of class. I bought my ketch sail boat in Banus Marina, I've sat and people watched at Sinatra's Piano Bar on the corner, see all the fancy cars circling round ... mind you that was 33 years ago ... might be a dump now, I just gooled that Piano bar ... gone, Sigh Sigh ... memories.

[KarenBravo]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Hi KB, I think you may be referring to Nicke (a Scandinavian, Norwegian I think) who had the Mai Thai bar in Soi Eric, and yes it was a successful business with many regulars coming back year after year and of course assisted by his website.

 

He also used to make up one of his own concoctions which consisted of the old "Victory V" lozenges dissolved in some sort of cheap vodka and that was "nice" in a strange sort of way!

 

He was a decent bloke as you say however declining trade and the fact that his wife left him really impacted upon him badly.

 

 

Yes, sorry, got the bar name wrong. Knew it was named after a cocktail. Also, I had the famous Black Viking. Never knew it was made from Victory-Vs. Didn't know his wife left him, either. I know he had a small daughter at the time.

[fatdrunkandstupid]

1 hour ago, beechbum said:

And he's worried about baht 2.5m and some condo's...

 

That's 5 m in lost key money plus outgoing losses. 

 

That's a hit even for a baller like you I should imagine.

[xylophone]

5 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

Yes, sorry, got the bar name wrong. Knew it was named after a cocktail. Also, I had the famous Black Viking. Never knew it was made from Victory-Vs. Didn't know his wife left him, either. I know he had a small daughter at the time.

So it was called Black Viking!! Tried making some myself at one time, but it didn't seem quite the same.

 

I think his break up and "losing" his daughter hit him really hard, that along with falling business and after a heavy night and morning he crashed his bike somewhere in Kathu as I recall. So sad.............RIP Nicke and thanks for the good times.

 

 

[Thomas Hannah]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

Patong is dead, or as I have said a few times it is definitely struggling although it will more than likely carry on as a party place for the lo-rent, bogans and Chinese, whereas it could have become the Puerto Banus or Juan Les Pins of Phuket and possibly Thailand.

 

Away from the thread for a while (and a particularly vindictive poster) and whilst lying in a hospital bed getting a once-daily IV infusion, I got to thinking a little bit about the Patong of a few years back and these were the days when owning a good bar was profitable and the party life seemed as if it would go on for ever, so let me tell you a story about a friend of mine who owned a bar here…………

 

Terry owned the Euro Bar, which was one of the most successful bars in Soi Eric and he had owned it since early 2000 although I got to know him from 2006 onwards.

 

He was a large man with a big heart and a huge character, but unfortunately was suffering from Multiple Sclerosis, so latterly was just about wheelchair-bound. He had run a successful nightclub in London and certainly had the gift of the gab when it came to talking to customers and getting them to visit his bar. And visit they did, time after time, year after year and bringing along friends and spreading the word, so he never had a problem filling the place.

 

Not only that he was well-known and had friends who would drop by, including the Taipan mob who would spend a small fortune in record time and then move on, other bar owners and friends and so on.

 

Being the sort of guy he was Terry reciprocated and would often visit other bar owners and I can tell you that trying to get him and his wheelchair down the ramp into what was then Soi Crocodile was fraught with danger, this especially as he weighed 120 kg, the wheelchair was rickety and the place was absolutely jam-packed with punters!

 

Soi Easy was much better because there was quite a large ramp going up into those bars and he/we would call into have a drink at Capt Kirk’s bar. Soi Gonzo was easy and this place was never packed, but Terry liked to go there because he liked to drink with two middle-aged Thai sisters who owned a bar there called, Duck Tonight, this especially as one of them was a little sweet on him.

 

There were many more bars that we would visit and I would help him at the bar and wheel him around probably four or five nights a week and in 2007/8/9 the place was still humming and in Soi Eric they used to put tables and chairs down the middle of the soi and these would also be absolutely packed full of punters.

 

The GFC hadn’t really hit home (in some places) at that time because the financial chicanery dreamt up by Shonky Wall Street whizzkids and aided by rating agencies in the form of CDOs had yet to spread to the far corners, although a slowdown was noticeable.

 

Never mind, Terry ran a good bar and made profit, yes profit was there to be made and Terry would make over 1 million baht a year in pure profit and I can tell you the financials behind it.

 

The key money was 2.4 million baht for three years (800k per annum) and the rent was 35K per month. On top of that he rented a house for his bar girls and that set him back 17k per month and he paid two full-time staff. Out of his takings he also financed his living, car expenses and everything else needed to exist here quite comfortably.

 

He showed me his books and he was meticulous in keeping account and he worked out exactly what he needed to take on a daily basis in order to cover all of his expenses and he was making on average about 1.2 million baht a year in profit (it varied a little if my memory serves me correct, but it was always over 1 million baht).

 

He often urged me to get a bar because as he used to say, “it will be a good little earner” however I didn’t like the idea of being tied to a booze establishment and I had noticed a slight slowdown, and anyway it wasn’t the sort of life I wanted.

 

Eventually of course the slowdown came and there were a few bars empty in Soi Eric, with one bar owner topping himself due to lack of finances amongst other things and the tables and chairs in the middle of the soi were no longer needed because there was no-one to fill them.

 

In the end he wanted to sell his bar because his health was deteriorating and he was not reaching his takings targets. With the help of his Thai wife, I sold the bar for him, or at least the remaining one year of the lease for 800k and he was happy with that.

 

It wasn’t long after that that the poor guy died as a result of cirrhosis of the liver and he left a big hole in quite a few people’s lives because he was just one lovely man.

 

So, there were times here when owning a bar was profitable and the crowds would flock in, but the GFC and changing demographics (probably influenced by the GFC) changed, but Patong stayed the same in some respects, yet has gone downhill in many others.

 

 

So the Bar was a big success.After all that work running a Bar for a year,His profit was in those days about £16,000 The baht was about 69 to the pound.So to me that was a small earner for all that work as a business.

[fatdrunkandstupid]

1 minute ago, Thomas Hannah said:

So the Bar was a big success.After all that work running a Bar for a year,His profit was in those days about £16,000 The baht was about 69 to the pound.So to me that was a small earner for all that work as a business.

Yeah that is a problem here.  You get a business humming and you gross about the same as a part time waitress in Sydney.

[xylophone]

22 minutes ago, Thomas Hannah said:

So the Bar was a big success.After all that work running a Bar for a year,His profit was in those days about £16,000 The baht was about 69 to the pound.So to me that was a small earner for all that work as a business.

Read again Thomas............... out of the bar take he was able to buy and run a car, pay for his holidays back to the UK (when he went), pay for his living expenses and those of his wife, build her a house up north, dine at his favourite restaurants and so on.

 

The clue for you will be in my sentence, "out of his takings he also financed his living, car expenses and everything else needed to exist here quite comfortably".

 

I hope that helps with your understanding.

 

PS. Another key thing for him was that he loved running the bar and meeting all of the friends he had, because as I said, he had run a nightclub in London and loved that lifestyle. Those who knew him would tell you that without his bar here, he would have been lost.

 

[SooKee]

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

So it was called Black Viking!! Tried making some myself at one time, but it didn't seem quite the same.

 

I think his break up and "losing" his daughter hit him really hard, that along with falling business and after a heavy night and morning he crashed his bike somewhere in Kathu as I recall. So sad.............RIP Nicke and thanks for the good times.

 

 

"So it was called Black Viking!! Tried making some myself at one time, but it didn't seem quite the same."

 

Must admit I found most of these 'shot blends' ranged from pretty bad to downright awful, as time went on I just shook my head when they were offered or, if trying to be overly polite, accepted and quietly binned them or passed them on.  Worst of the lot I found to be the 'Creme de Menthe' (doubtless a cheap copy) based mixes served with god knows what, tequila, vodka, petrol, I was never sure, in some of the French owned bars I used to go to.  Only one that came close to being palatable was based on Werthers Caramel candy I think, actually quite pleasant, though more so I guess depending on how many beers I'd had.

[madmitch]

2 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Puerto Banus ... no way Patong would ever have that sort of class. I bought my ketch sail boat in Banus Marina, I've sat and people watched at Sinatra's Piano Bar on the corner, see all the fancy cars circling round ... mind you that was 33 years ago ... might be a dump now, I just gooled that Piano bar ... gone, Sigh Sigh ... memories.

I can assure you that Puerto Banus is not a dump, far from it, attracting the sort of quality clientele that Phuket so desires - joined, however by a number of dodgy Brits for whom the Costa Del Crime still exists.

[simon43]

You must have also known Nicke...

 

I remember Nicke very well.  At that time when I was working as a police volunteer at the airport, I also drove down to Patong every weekend to help out - at that time, the traffic between the airport and Patong was light, unlike today.

 

My job (because I can speak good Thai and Issan Lao), was to wander in and out all of the bars, to basically say hi to everyone (tourists, bar owners, bar girls, touts etc), look out for any tourists who disputed their bar bill, or tourists who so were drunk that they'd forgotten the name of their hotel!  (not an uncommon event).

 

It was an enjoyable time, and very sad when Nicke died - I would drop by his bar for a chat every weekend.

 

He wasn't the only popular bar owner to die in a motorbike accident.  What was the name of the American bar owner in Soi Sea Dragon(?) who used to have a BBQ outside his bar and who rode a big bike?  I recall visiting him in Vachira after a bad bike accident.  He was on the road to recovery, but then suddenly died.  Very sad.

 

To comment about guesthouses and profit, one of the problems of running a guesthouse or small hotel is the increased competition, with cut-throat pricing.

 

Although it is not Patong, when I opened my first small hotel near the airport some 13 years ago, there were just 4 other hotels listed in that locality.

 

When I got out of the business last year, there were many more guesthouses and small hotels.

 

I just checked on booking.com for hotels listed at Phuket airport.  93 properties are listed!

 

So you may have a popular hotel/guesthouse.  But customers will always be swayed by cut-throat pricing from competing 'hobby' businesses.

[beechbum]

6 hours ago, xylophone said:

Hi KB, I think you may be referring to Nicke (a Scandinavian, Norwegian I think) who had the Mai Thai bar in Soi Eric, and yes it was a successful business with many regulars coming back year after year and of course assisted by his website.

 

He also used to make up one of his own concoctions which consisted of the old "Victory V" lozenges dissolved in some sort of cheap vodka and that was "nice" in a strange sort of way!

 

He was a decent bloke as you say however declining trade and the fact that his wife left him really impacted upon him badly.

 

 

Are you sure Nicks wife left him?

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, beechbum said:

Are you sure Nicks wife left him?

Well I believe they "parted company" and it hit him hard...........maybe it was a temporary thing, but that was the word from some folks who knew about it at the time. I don't suppose we will ever know exactly what went on, but suffice it to say that she wasn't seen at his bar latterly............

 

Whatever happened in this regard, the fact is the poor guy met a tragic and untimely end and probably not good form on my part to dwell on too much speculation. My apologies if it sounded like this.

[NamKangMan]

 

Whilst we are reminiscing, the old Soi Lion, first bar on the right.  White tiles and pink neon.  Scandi owner, from memory. 

 

What was his name?  Is he still alive?  Is he still here?

[chrisandsu]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

Read again Thomas............... out of the bar take he was able to buy and run a car, pay for his holidays back to the UK (when he went), pay for his living expenses and those of his wife, build her a house up north, dine at his favourite restaurants and so on.

 

The clue for you will be in my sentence, "out of his takings he also financed his living, car expenses and everything else needed to exist here quite comfortably".

 

I hope that helps with your understanding.

 

PS. Another key thing for him was that he loved running the bar and meeting all of the friends he had, because as I said, he had run a nightclub in London and loved that lifestyle. Those who knew him would tell you that without his bar here, he would have been lost.

 

I think his ego may of taken over . There are many expats in Thailand that live on a lot less then a million a year .

[xylophone]

10 hours ago, chrisandsu said:

I think his ego may of taken over . There are many expats in Thailand that live on a lot less then a million a year .

Maybe chrisandsu and what he failed to realise that the 1.2 m baht was "surplus"money because the bar funded his living here.

 

As you say there are many expats who live here on less than that and anyway what is the use of converting it back to pounds........you can't compare the lifestyle costs here with those in the uk, it's meaningless!

[Patong2]

Great thread with some excellent posts

 

The changes over the years have been amazing.

 

Talking with a Thai I met in Tesco Kathu and said we remembered Ratuchit Rd when the east side was paddocks for water buffalo and were agog at the start of Jung Ceylon as we just knew it would be a disaster, where would they get the customers from?

Well the developers were right and we were wrong but still glad none of my money was at risk.

[chrisandsu]

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

Maybe chrisandsu and what he failed to realise that the 1.2 m baht was "surplus"money because the bar funded his living here.

 

As you say there are many expats who live here on less than that and anyway what is the use of converting it back to pounds........you can't compare the lifestyle costs here with those in the uk, it's meaningless!

No living costs and 100k a month ... that's a decent living in any country . I make way more then that where I live but my outgoings are way higher . I had cash from selling land and a house there I just bought it back over and lost close to 10% ... currency can be a batch but I needed the money and couldn't wait any longer for the $ to weaken . That money I couldn't buy a rai in Thailand, I could buy 5 acres of beautiful treed land here . 

[xylophone]

On 6/9/2017 at 1:39 PM, beechbum said:

And he's worried about baht 2.5m and some condo's...

 

Hey beechbum............where did you get the pie pic from? Available here in Thailand?? 

 

Would just love one right now, along with some nice mustard!!

[xylophone]

23 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Whilst we are reminiscing, the old Soi Lion, first bar on the right.  White tiles and pink neon.  Scandi owner, from memory. 

 

What was his name?  Is he still alive?  Is he still here?

Remember Soi Lion but it was fairly short lived as I recall. Went there a few times and initially it was humming, but wasn't "wheelchair friendly" so couldn't get my mate in there easily.

 

Knew nothing about the owner or his circumstances so can't help I'm afraid.

[NamKangMan]

2 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Remember Soi Lion but it was fairly short lived as I recall. Went there a few times and initially it was humming, but wasn't "wheelchair friendly" so couldn't get my mate in there easily.

 

Knew nothing about the owner or his circumstances so can't help I'm afraid.

 

At one stage, in my opinion, he had the prettiest girls out of all of the Bangla Road bars, and there was day light second. 

 

Ahhh, the good old days. 

 

Spoke to a Thai friend yesterday who is a legitimate receptionist at a medium sized hotel that used to cater for Russians, but now cater for Chinese.  She told me the Chinese tour guides are now offering girls to the rooms, unseen, although I suspect some photos must be shown to the customer.

 

No bar fines to me made.  No lady drink commissions to be made.  I'm sure the Chinese tour guide, aka, pimp, takes a commission.  Surely a sign of the times here, with more to come in the future..

 

Like the saying goes, "Phuket, you wanted the Chinese, you've got the Chinese." 

 

A lot of "profit" that used to remain in Phuket / Thailand is now being repatriated back to China.

 

Good luck to Phuket with that business model. 

[beechbum]

9 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

 

 

Ahhh, the good old days. 

 

 

Seriously..soi lion..i was only a few yrs ago and lasted for 5 minutes.

[schlog]

1 hour ago, beechbum said:

Seriously..soi lion..i was only a few yrs ago and lasted for 5 minutes.

Good times of soi lion are long gone.

Early 90' with bavarian bar and the bar of the english guy who regularily pxxx in his bedroom were not too bad. But longer then 1h stay in this soi - impossible because of the depressive atmosphere.

[xylophone]

19 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

At one stage, in my opinion, he had the prettiest girls out of all of the Bangla Road bars, and there was day light second. 

Yes there were some pretty girls there, but also some very pretty ones in The Guitar Bar (decked out in their little uniforms) and a couple in Euro Bar, both in Soi Eric.

 

Don't know why Soi Lion went, but as I and others have said, it wasn't there long!

 

Was speaking to the owner of one of the biggest disco/nightclubs in Patong today and he was also lamenting the influx of Chinese tourists and the fact that they added not a lot to the local economy.

 

He also backed up that which I have been saying on here for some time, that the last three low seasons have been lower in each successive year and this one looks to be following that trend. 

[NamKangMan]

14 hours ago, beechbum said:

Seriously..soi lion..i was only a few yrs ago and lasted for 5 minutes.

 

I was talking about a particular bar on that Soi, not the whole Soi itself.

 

Just saying, the girls were all young and pretty in that bar, consistently.  There was no "dead wood" working there.   

[NamKangMan]

3 hours ago, xylophone said:

Yes there were some pretty girls there, but also some very pretty ones in The Guitar Bar (decked out in their little uniforms) and a couple in Euro Bar, both in Soi Eric.

 

Don't know why Soi Lion went, but as I and others have said, it wasn't there long!

 

Was speaking to the owner of one of the biggest disco/nightclubs in Patong today and he was also lamenting the influx of Chinese tourists and the fact that they added not a lot to the local economy.

 

He also backed up that which I have been saying on here for some time, that the last three low seasons have been lower in each successive year and this one looks to be following that trend. 

 

"he was also lamenting the influx of Chinese tourists and the fact that they added not a lot to the local economy" - give it time and you will see them start to take from the local Phuket economy. 

 

It's happening already, but if the Chinese numbers increase, their stripping of profits from the Phuket economy will ramp up.

 

As mentioned before, the only way I can see Phuket / Thailand making Chinese tourism work for them is to allow casinos, where "the house" (Government) gets their cut out of them. 

 

The problem with this is, consumption is all "in house" and no businesses outside of the casino profit from this tourism. 

 

 

[Bulldozer Dawn]

7 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

Spoke to a Thai friend yesterday who is a legitimate receptionist at a medium sized hotel that used to cater for Russians, but now cater for Chinese.  She told me the Chinese tour guides are now offering girls to the rooms, unseen, although I suspect some photos must be shown to the customer.

 

No bar fines to me made.  No lady drink commissions to be made.  I'm sure the Chinese tour guide, aka, pimp, takes a commission.  Surely a sign of the times here, with more to come in the future..

 

Nothing new.  I was in a massage shop nearly three years ago and a guide came in and requested the three prettiest girls go with him to massage chinese clients in their rooms.  All of these girls said no way, but there were three over 50 ugly and broke lasses who went along.  I knew one of these old girls very well, when she came back I asked how was it and she replied "yag uak".

[xylophone]

Property in Patong…………

 

Wandering through Jungceylon a couple of days ago I noticed a new and larger property display by the Emerald group.

 

Before I get onto that, there are already 15 property booths in Jungceylon so one would have thought that would be enough, but obviously not. In addition I know the manager of several of these booths and a few months ago he was lamenting the fact that business was extremely slow and the poorest he had ever seen it, however then it took a blip upwards in late January early February (as I recall) so he was happier for a while anyway.

 

An old friend of mine who has just returned to Patong has gotten into the real estate business and told me just the other day that he never realised that there were so many apartments and businesses for sale, with so few buyers. He did however mention that when there was a fairly keen buyer, the seller would not drop the price or negotiate it, so no deal was done and he couldn’t understand this mentality.

 

Back on to the display I saw in Jungceylon; the Emerald Group built some apartments called “The Terraces” off Phra Baramee road and although they are not in the most salubrious surroundings the area is quiet and not too far from the beach. When they were being marketed, I was led to believe by the marketing folk at the time that there was going to be a second set of apartments built nearby called, “The Terraces 2”.

 

Now the second set of apartments if that’s what they were to be, have been stalled for some time now and there is just an empty shell with some rusting iron work protruding from various concrete places not to mention the fact that the whole place looks very shoddy indeed.

 

So I asked at this new property display in Jungceylon what they were actually selling and they said they were selling apartments and these apartments would be bought off the plan now and ready in two years?? I asked if they were the same apartments which had been stalled for some time now, however I didn’t get a straight answer.

 

Either way it makes you wonder as to whether these property developers think that just about everybody who comes to this place is stupid/gullible or whether they are right and there is easy money to be made on these things?

 

Looking around that the other stalled/derelict apartment blocks and doing a bit of research it should become quite obvious that there is a problem here what with the Phanason Park project stalled for three years now, the ACE Condominiums unfinished and rotting (and the money having vanished by all accounts) then others like the Dinso apartments where nothing has happened for two years and the plethora of apartments and houses for sale which haven’t moved for years.

 

And on the subject of property, those folks who bought apartments for an investment and who have gotten the seven or 10% returns promised for the first two years (which was built into the sale price anyway) which is now finished, will be struggling. One large development of recent times has taken to putting Chinese guests a la the “airbnb” model into these places for a few days at a time, which I thought had just been judged illegal.

 

Notwithstanding the odd Chinese tourist or three, a resident there has said that he rarely sees any activity in any of the apartments anyway (granted, a few more in the high season, but nowhere near enough to satisfy the owners investment return expectations I would think).

[madmitch]

3 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Property in Patong…………

 

Wandering through Jungceylon a couple of days ago I noticed a new and larger property display by the Emerald group.

 

Before I get onto that, there are already 15 property booths in Jungceylon so one would have thought that would be enough, but obviously not. In addition I know the manager of several of these booths and a few months ago he was lamenting the fact that business was extremely slow and the poorest he had ever seen it, however then it took a blip upwards in late January early February (as I recall) so he was happier for a while anyway.

 

An old friend of mine who has just returned to Patong has gotten into the real estate business and told me just the other day that he never realised that there were so many apartments and businesses for sale, with so few buyers. He did however mention that when there was a fairly keen buyer, the seller would not drop the price or negotiate it, so no deal was done and he couldn’t understand this mentality.

 

Back on to the display I saw in Jungceylon; the Emerald Group built some apartments called “The Terraces” off Phra Baramee road and although they are not in the most salubrious surroundings the area is quiet and not too far from the beach. When they were being marketed, I was led to believe by the marketing folk at the time that there was going to be a second set of apartments built nearby called, “The Terraces 2”.

 

Now the second set of apartments if that’s what they were to be, have been stalled for some time now and there is just an empty shell with some rusting iron work protruding from various concrete places not to mention the fact that the whole place looks very shoddy indeed.

 

So I asked at this new property display in Jungceylon what they were actually selling and they said they were selling apartments and these apartments would be bought off the plan now and ready in two years?? I asked if they were the same apartments which had been stalled for some time now, however I didn’t get a straight answer.

 

Either way it makes you wonder as to whether these property developers think that just about everybody who comes to this place is stupid/gullible or whether they are right and there is easy money to be made on these things?

 

Looking around that the other stalled/derelict apartment blocks and doing a bit of research it should become quite obvious that there is a problem here what with the Phanason Park project stalled for three years now, the ACE Condominiums unfinished and rotting (and the money having vanished by all accounts) then others like the Dinso apartments where nothing has happened for two years and the plethora of apartments and houses for sale which haven’t moved for years.

 

And on the subject of property, those folks who bought apartments for an investment and who have gotten the seven or 10% returns promised for the first two years (which was built into the sale price anyway) which is now finished, will be struggling. One large development of recent times has taken to putting Chinese guests a la the “airbnb” model into these places for a few days at a time, which I thought had just been judged illegal.

 

Notwithstanding the odd Chinese tourist or three, a resident there has said that he rarely sees any activity in any of the apartments anyway (granted, a few more in the high season, but nowhere near enough to satisfy the owners investment return expectations I would think).

Not just Patong: there's at least one condo block in Karon that now caters for busloads of Chinese. You'd be pretty p!ssed off if you were an owner, I'm sure.

 

I lost count of the number of large buses I saw on Patak Road last night and they were lined up at the Hilton Arcadia this morning. Are other parts of the island seeing similar? 

[KarenBravo]

Oh well.......at least the building of shop-houses has dramatically slowed all over the island.

[NamKangMan]

On 12/06/2017 at 1:15 AM, Bulldozer Dawn said:

 

Nothing new.  I was in a massage shop nearly three years ago and a guide came in and requested the three prettiest girls go with him to massage chinese clients in their rooms.  All of these girls said no way, but there were three over 50 ugly and broke lasses who went along.  I knew one of these old girls very well, when she came back I asked how was it and she replied "yag uak".

 

How long before the Chinese start to arrange "working holidays"  for their own hookers???? 

 

Then, not even Thai hookers will see a baht out of this tourism.