UK anti-Semitic incidents hit record in 2014, says charity

[Ulysses G.]

Don't confuse the issues indeed. Comparing Netanyahu to Hitler or fighting with the Palestinians - in wars that THEY started - to the holocaust is just plain STUPID.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

Don't confuse the issues indeed. Comparing Netanyahu to Hitler or fighting with the Palestinians - in wars that THEY started - to the holocaust is just plain STUPID.

This issue is detailed here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_antisemitism

The paper included “Examples of the ways in which anti-Semitism manifests itself with regard to the state of Israel taking into account the overall context could include"

• Denying the Jewish people the right to self-determination, e.g. by claiming that the existence of a state of Israel is a racist endeavor;
• Applying double standards by requiring of Israel a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation;
• Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g. claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis;
• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
• Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the State of Israel.^[40][41]

The EUMC added that criticism of Israel cannot be regarded as antisemitism so long as it is "similar to that leveled against any other country."

It's complicated.

[Seastallion]

Don't confuse the issues indeed. Comparing Netanyahu to Hitler or fighting with the Palestinians - in wars that THEY started - to the holocaust is just plain STUPID.

This issue is detailed here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_antisemitism

The paper included “Examples of the ways in which anti-Semitism manifests itself with regard to the state of Israel taking into account the overall context could include"

• Denying the Jewish people the right to self-determination, e.g. by claiming that the existence of a state of Israel is a racist endeavor;
• Applying double standards by requiring of Israel a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation;
• Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g. claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis;
• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
• Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the State of Israel.^[40][41]

The EUMC added that criticism of Israel cannot be regarded as antisemitism so long as it is "similar to that leveled against any other country."

It's complicated.

Well, we're getting somewhere with your source, as it does state "The EUMC added that criticism of Israel cannot be regarded as antisemitism so long as....".

The last bit ("so long as it is "similar to that leveled against any other country." ") is an incomplete qualifier as it assumes Israel's crimes are equal to "any other country"...but that's a different topic.

The rest of the quote is simply biased opinion, although I agree with the last point about collective blame, except insofar as the question of whether an electorate is responsible for it's elected leaders' actions.

The only reason I would disagree with the double standard point is that a critic may not be as vociferous on other issues, but that doesn't mean they hold double standards.

And UG, I have offered no opinion about Netanyahu or Hitler...if your read properly, you would see I was talking about the general critics that do. And again I make my point; Saying the ethnic cleansing is comparable to the holocaust may not be apt (or is plain STUPID, in your opinion), but it remains criticism of Israel, and is not a display of antisemitism. If the critics had compared the Zionists to Andrew Jackson and the US Indian Removal Act, it would be no more nor no less antisemitic...and again, I offer no opinion on the aptness of the comparison....that is not what this thread is about.

[JingerBen]

The Israeli "...anti-terror operation against Hamas" has entered the lexicon as the Gaza Massacre of 2014 [google it] because of the large number of non-combatants killed in the fifty-day assault that claimed the lives of 2,254 Palestinians including 538 children.

Gentle reminder, this thread is about UK antiSemitism, not Gaza. Even if every word you wrote about Gaza were true it would still be small potatoes to what several Islamic nations or groups have managed, 2000 in a day by Boko Haram for example. Moreover to equate a foreign dispute with the persecution of a minority group in the UK is acceptance of the concept of original sin, the very cornerstone of antiSemitism or racism in general.

I don't need a "Gentle reminder..." that the thread is about UK anti-Semitism; I am well aware of it.

Atrocities like the Gaza Massacre create anti-Semitism in the UK and elsewhere. Just as atrocities by Muslims create anti-Islamic sentiment.

"Even if every word you wrote about Gaza were true..." - please tell me exactly what I wrote that was untrue.

[Jingthing]

The Israeli "...anti-terror operation against Hamas" has entered the lexicon as the Gaza Massacre of 2014 [google it] because of the large number of non-combatants killed in the fifty-day assault that claimed the lives of 2,254 Palestinians including 538 children.

Gentle reminder, this thread is about UK antiSemitism, not Gaza. Even if every word you wrote about Gaza were true it would still be small potatoes to what several Islamic nations or groups have managed, 2000 in a day by Boko Haram for example. Moreover to equate a foreign dispute with the persecution of a minority group in the UK is acceptance of the concept of original sin, the very cornerstone of antiSemitism or racism in general.

I don't need a "Gentle reminder..." that the thread is about UK anti-Semitism; I am well aware of it.

Atrocities like the Gaza Massacre create anti-Semitism in the UK and elsewhere. Just as atrocities by Muslims create anti-Islamic sentiment.

"Even if every word you wrote about Gaza were true..." - please tell me exactly what I wrote that was untrue.

Dude, antisemitism has been going on for thousands of years.

It didn't start during the recent Gaza armed conflict.

This is about the UK.

Are the Jews of the UK responsible for actions of the government of Israel?

I will grant you most Jews in the world support the existence of Israel but if you see a random Jew they do not represent the government and policies of the Israeli government.

In reference to the UK and who is responsible for the uptick of hatred against Jews in the UK ... look closer to home in the UK ... look to GEORGE GALLOWAY (start at minute 39)

Edited February 10, 2015 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

And UG, I have offered no opinion about Netanyahu or Hitler.

Protesters in the UK shouting Heil Hitler, Oh Jew, you will die", Hitler you were right! and Death to Jews are not comparisons. They are anti-semitic incidents.

[Jingthing]

And UG, I have offered no opinion about Netanyahu or Hitler.

Protesters in the UK shouting Heil Hitler, Oh Jew, you will die", Hitler you were right! and Death to Jews are not comparisons. They are anti-semitic incidents.

Obviously. The linkage between Israel demonization and antisemitism (hatred against Jews) is undeniable. Israel demonization is not mere normal criticism of Israel ... it goes much further into opposing the very existence of the only nation in the world with a Jewish majority.

[Scott]

Off-topic post and reply removed.

[Chicog]

It's complicated.

• Applying double standards by requiring of Israel a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation;

I don't think Israel's circumstances or behaviour are in any way similar to any other democratic nation.

Hard to apply a double standard.

[rgs2001uk]

Wonder how many commenting actually live in or have been to the UK?

I wonder how many of the fanatical anti-American posters have ever been to the US or know anything about it - other than what they read on left-wing blogs. You don't have to have been somewhere to comment on it. Those are the rules.

I think you are on the wrong thread.

[Jingthing]

Some additional current and relevant information related to this topic ... the spike of antisemitism (hatred against Jews) in the UK:

Manifestations of persistent anti-Semitism shock British MPs
...

“People have a legitimate right to protest against Israel though boycott or other peaceful means. However, such protest becomes entirely illegitimate when constituting an attack on or intimidation of British Jews. We have set out that cultural boycotts, implemented in the way they were in the summer, were unacceptable. The boycott movement faces a challenge of how to put their tactics into effect while not slipping into anti-Semitism, unlawful discrimination or assaulting valued freedoms.”

http://www.timesofisrael.com/manifestations-of-persistent-anti-semitism-shock-british-mps/

[Choctastic]

Some additional current and relevant information related to this topic ... the spike of antisemitism (hatred against Jews) in the UK:

You can't drench the innocent with White Phosporous then complain when people strike out at the nearest Jew. Muslims are experiencing the same response and you hear little from Jewish or Israeli defenders. Only the constant refrain that says all Muslims are 'terrorists'. When you and your ilk start to combat THAT smear, you might win more support. Otherwise you are simply reinforcing the message that only Jews matter.

Stop whining.

[Jingthing]

Galloway doesn't want any Israelis in his area.

He wants an Israeli Free Zone.

Do you imagine he includes Arab Israelis in his outrageous bigotry?

Galloway claims it's not about Jews to him.

Seems like a lie.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Some additional current and relevant information related to this topic ... the spike of antisemitism (hatred against Jews) in the UK:

You can't drench the innocent with White Phosporous then complain when people strike out at the nearest Jew. Muslims are experiencing the same response and you hear little from Jewish or Israeli defenders. Only the constant refrain that says all Muslims are 'terrorists'. When you and your ilk start to combat THAT smear, you might win more support. Otherwise you are simply reinforcing the message that only Jews matter.

Stop whining.

So to you every Jew in the world (specifically in the UK per this thread) represents what you don't like about Israeli policies and thus like the Jihadists a valid target of violence?

Also stop putting words in my mouth ... just as you seem to be pushing this racist meme that all Jews are valid targets and it's OK to see all Jews in the world as roaming IDF soldiers.

I have never said in my entire life that all Muslims are terrorists.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

There is nothing 'vile' about what Galloway says. Many agree with him.

More nonsense from the usual suspects. Plenty agree with the KKK and the Nazis. Does that make racism OK? Among many other remarks, this hateful nutjob claims that the "Zionist movement funded Hitler." Galloway is an anti-Semite who makes up fake history to support his false narrative.

[Seastallion]

Some additional current and relevant information related to this topic ... the spike of antisemitism (hatred against Jews) in the UK:

Manifestations of persistent anti-Semitism shock British MPs

...

“People have a legitimate right to protest against Israel though boycott or other peaceful means. However, such protest becomes entirely illegitimate when constituting an attack on or intimidation of British Jews. We have set out that cultural boycotts, implemented in the way they were in the summer, were unacceptable. The boycott movement faces a challenge of how to put their tactics into effect while not slipping into anti-Semitism, unlawful discrimination or assaulting valued freedoms.”

http://www.timesofisrael.com/manifestations-of-persistent-anti-semitism-shock-british-mps/

I agree wholeheartedly with your quote.

What I take issue with is that it seems quite common to label criticism of Israel as antisemitism simply because it's critical of Israel.

If we separate actual antisemitism from expressions of condemnation of Israel, we would have less "antisemitism" reported in reports such as the OP.

Amongst the expressions of criticism of Israel, there are, unfortunately, hollow antisemitic expressions used, usually, I submit, expressed in ignorance. These, while sounding distasteful, would not be genuinely felt, and are thus effectively not antisemitic. They are misplaced and erroneously used phrases. Hollow and rhetorical. Hatred is only possible from a hater. To criticise Israel while not hating Jews happens a lot and can not be antisemitism even if the wrong words are employed.

It's like saying "Bloody Asian drivers!!" while out in your car. You are not a racist, but your anger expressed itself with a thoughtless racist-sounding exclamation. Thoughtless, thus not heartfelt, thus not making you a racist.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Seastallion

[dexterm]

There is nothing 'vile' about what Galloway says. Many agree with him.

More nonsense from the usual suspects. Plenty agree with the KKK and the Nazis. Does that make racism OK? Among many other remarks, this hateful nutjob claims that the "Zionist movement funded Hitler." Galloway is an anti-Semite who makes up fake history to support his false narrative.

That's just a silly fallacy. Sounds slick but is actually meaningless. It's like saying:

All cats are animals. Ginger is an animal. Therefore, Ginger is a cat.

or,

I speak English. Therefore, I am English.

George Galloway is vehemently anti racist and anti anti-semitic if you have ever bothered listening to him. You will not be able to quote a single anti Jewish remark he has ever made.

He is most certainly as I am anti-Zionist.

He held his own in the BBC set up, and emerged with far greater dignity than the rabid Zionist audience who wanted to suppress his freedom of speech.

Edited February 11, 2015 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

He is most certainly as I am anti-Zionist.

You two are like two peas in a pod alright and you both rely on fabricated history to promote your agenda. It is well known that Galloway supports Hamas whose Charter openly calls for genocide against Jews. Substituting the word "Zionist" for "Jews" when in public fools pretty much no one.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

He is most certainly as I am anti-Zionist.

You two are like two peas in a pod alright and you both rely on fabricated history to promote your agenda. It is well known that Galloway supports Hamas whose Charter openly calls for genocide against Jews. Substituting the word "Zionist" for "Jews" when in public fools pretty much no one.

Sounds like Chinese whispers here with you transposing your own thoughts and words into Galloway's mouth.

In other words, just as I said, you cannot find a single anti Jewish quote made by Galloway, but you are quite prepared to smear him as racist and anti Semitic. Which is quite amazing considering he is such a prolific speaker.

Perhaps the reason being that he isn't anti Jewish, but is anti Zionist...ie anti Israel as a Jewish supremacist state.

Edited February 11, 2015 by dexterm

[Morch]

Some additional current and relevant information related to this topic ... the spike of antisemitism (hatred against Jews) in the UK:

Manifestations of persistent anti-Semitism shock British MPs

...

“People have a legitimate right to protest against Israel though boycott or other peaceful means. However, such protest becomes entirely illegitimate when constituting an attack on or intimidation of British Jews. We have set out that cultural boycotts, implemented in the way they were in the summer, were unacceptable. The boycott movement faces a challenge of how to put their tactics into effect while not slipping into anti-Semitism, unlawful discrimination or assaulting valued freedoms.”

http://www.timesofisrael.com/manifestations-of-persistent-anti-semitism-shock-british-mps/

I agree wholeheartedly with your quote.

What I take issue with is that it seems quite common to label criticism of Israel as antisemitism simply because it's critical of Israel.

If we separate actual antisemitism from expressions of condemnation of Israel, we would have less "antisemitism" reported in reports such as the OP.

Amongst the expressions of criticism of Israel, there are, unfortunately, hollow antisemitic expressions used, usually, I submit, expressed in ignorance. These, while sounding distasteful, would not be genuinely felt, and are thus effectively not antisemitic. They are misplaced and erroneously used phrases. Hollow and rhetorical. Hatred is only possible from a hater. To criticise Israel while not hating Jews happens a lot and can not be antisemitism even if the wrong words are employed.

It's like saying "Bloody Asian drivers!!" while out in your car. You are not a racist, but your anger expressed itself with a thoughtless racist-sounding exclamation. Thoughtless, thus not heartfelt, thus not making you a racist.

It's alright if you didn't really mean it?

[Seastallion]

Some additional current and relevant information related to this topic ... the spike of antisemitism (hatred against Jews) in the UK:

Manifestations of persistent anti-Semitism shock British MPs

...

“People have a legitimate right to protest against Israel though boycott or other peaceful means. However, such protest becomes entirely illegitimate when constituting an attack on or intimidation of British Jews. We have set out that cultural boycotts, implemented in the way they were in the summer, were unacceptable. The boycott movement faces a challenge of how to put their tactics into effect while not slipping into anti-Semitism, unlawful discrimination or assaulting valued freedoms.”

http://www.timesofisrael.com/manifestations-of-persistent-anti-semitism-shock-british-mps/

I agree wholeheartedly with your quote.

What I take issue with is that it seems quite common to label criticism of Israel as antisemitism simply because it's critical of Israel.

If we separate actual antisemitism from expressions of condemnation of Israel, we would have less "antisemitism" reported in reports such as the OP.

Amongst the expressions of criticism of Israel, there are, unfortunately, hollow antisemitic expressions used, usually, I submit, expressed in ignorance. These, while sounding distasteful, would not be genuinely felt, and are thus effectively not antisemitic. They are misplaced and erroneously used phrases. Hollow and rhetorical. Hatred is only possible from a hater. To criticise Israel while not hating Jews happens a lot and can not be antisemitism even if the wrong words are employed.

It's like saying "Bloody Asian drivers!!" while out in your car. You are not a racist, but your anger expressed itself with a thoughtless racist-sounding exclamation. Thoughtless, thus not heartfelt, thus not making you a racist.

It's alright if you didn't really mean it?

Yes, of course.

It's exactly the same as the "I'm gonna kill you" said in anger yet everybody knows you have no intention of murder, you are not a potential murderer, and that the words were hollow. You did not really threaten to kill, you mouthed off.

The words are not magic. Even "Abracadabra" has to be accompanied with intent for it to work.

Antisemitism, by it's very definition implies hatred against Jews. If an ignorant yobbo, who does not hate Jews but does despise Israel's crimes says "The Gaza massacre is equivalent to the holocaust", we sensible people know he is not an antisemite, but an anti-Israeli who used an inapt reference.

There seems to be, over the last few months especially, a resurgence in the propagandist attempts to convey a deeper magic onto the word "antisemite". As our friend JT is so fond (ad nauseum) of writing "(hatred of Jews)" every time he writes the word "antisemite", we know very well that to be an antisemite, you must hate Jews. Saying "Hitler" out loud does not make one an antisemite. Saying "Israel is doing ethnic cleansing, just like Hitler did" does not make the speaker an antisemite. He may be, or not, but that utterance does not make him one.

[Morch]

Some additional current and relevant information related to this topic ... the spike of antisemitism (hatred against Jews) in the UK:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/manifestations-of-persistent-anti-semitism-shock-british-mps/

I agree wholeheartedly with your quote.

What I take issue with is that it seems quite common to label criticism of Israel as antisemitism simply because it's critical of Israel.

If we separate actual antisemitism from expressions of condemnation of Israel, we would have less "antisemitism" reported in reports such as the OP.

Amongst the expressions of criticism of Israel, there are, unfortunately, hollow antisemitic expressions used, usually, I submit, expressed in ignorance. These, while sounding distasteful, would not be genuinely felt, and are thus effectively not antisemitic. They are misplaced and erroneously used phrases. Hollow and rhetorical. Hatred is only possible from a hater. To criticise Israel while not hating Jews happens a lot and can not be antisemitism even if the wrong words are employed.

It's like saying "Bloody Asian drivers!!" while out in your car. You are not a racist, but your anger expressed itself with a thoughtless racist-sounding exclamation. Thoughtless, thus not heartfelt, thus not making you a racist.

It's alright if you didn't really mean it?

Yes, of course.

It's exactly the same as the "I'm gonna kill you" said in anger yet everybody knows you have no intention of murder, you are not a potential murderer, and that the words were hollow. You did not really threaten to kill, you mouthed off.

The words are not magic. Even "Abracadabra" has to be accompanied with intent for it to work.

Antisemitism, by it's very definition implies hatred against Jews. If an ignorant yobbo, who does not hate Jews but does despise Israel's crimes says "The Gaza massacre is equivalent to the holocaust", we sensible people know he is not an antisemite, but an anti-Israeli who used an inapt reference.

There seems to be, over the last few months especially, a resurgence in the propagandist attempts to convey a deeper magic onto the word "antisemite". As our friend JT is so fond (ad nauseum) of writing "(hatred of Jews)" every time he writes the word "antisemite", we know very well that to be an antisemite, you must hate Jews. Saying "Hitler" out loud does not make one an antisemite. Saying "Israel is doing ethnic cleansing, just like Hitler did" does not make the speaker an antisemite. He may be, or not, but that utterance does not make him one.

I don't know that it makes one an antisemitic, I'm pretty sure it raises the odds one is.

As for the I-didn't-really-mean-it, sounds like an easy way out.

[Seastallion]

I agree wholeheartedly with your quote.

What I take issue with is that it seems quite common to label criticism of Israel as antisemitism simply because it's critical of Israel.

If we separate actual antisemitism from expressions of condemnation of Israel, we would have less "antisemitism" reported in reports such as the OP.

Amongst the expressions of criticism of Israel, there are, unfortunately, hollow antisemitic expressions used, usually, I submit, expressed in ignorance. These, while sounding distasteful, would not be genuinely felt, and are thus effectively not antisemitic. They are misplaced and erroneously used phrases. Hollow and rhetorical. Hatred is only possible from a hater. To criticise Israel while not hating Jews happens a lot and can not be antisemitism even if the wrong words are employed.

It's like saying "Bloody Asian drivers!!" while out in your car. You are not a racist, but your anger expressed itself with a thoughtless racist-sounding exclamation. Thoughtless, thus not heartfelt, thus not making you a racist.

It's alright if you didn't really mean it?

Yes, of course.

It's exactly the same as the "I'm gonna kill you" said in anger yet everybody knows you have no intention of murder, you are not a potential murderer, and that the words were hollow. You did not really threaten to kill, you mouthed off.

The words are not magic. Even "Abracadabra" has to be accompanied with intent for it to work.

Antisemitism, by it's very definition implies hatred against Jews. If an ignorant yobbo, who does not hate Jews but does despise Israel's crimes says "The Gaza massacre is equivalent to the holocaust", we sensible people know he is not an antisemite, but an anti-Israeli who used an inapt reference.

There seems to be, over the last few months especially, a resurgence in the propagandist attempts to convey a deeper magic onto the word "antisemite". As our friend JT is so fond (ad nauseum) of writing "(hatred of Jews)" every time he writes the word "antisemite", we know very well that to be an antisemite, you must hate Jews. Saying "Hitler" out loud does not make one an antisemite. Saying "Israel is doing ethnic cleansing, just like Hitler did" does not make the speaker an antisemite. He may be, or not, but that utterance does not make him one.

I don't know that it makes one an antisemitic, I'm pretty sure it raises the odds one is.

As for the I-didn't-really-mean-it, sounds like an easy way out.

Ok, you're entitled to your opinion, it is not an entirely unreasonable one. What would be unreasonable would be to jump to a definite conclusion on a person being an antisemite (jew hater), just because he speaks of holocausts or Hitler when refering to Israel.

"Possible antisemite" would be more appropriate in future, as from your own admission, you're basing it on the odds, not the facts.

[theoldgit]

Post quoting statement with no link to source, removed.

[Jay Sata]

Sadly this thread has has degenerated in to the usual arguments from a couple of posters that are not related to the reality.

Golders Green in London is probably the biggest centre of Jewish population in the UK.

Sadly some of the loudest voices on here have no knowledge of the UK or London and are spouting rubbish.

It is a nice middle class suburb where a cross section of people from various backgrounds live in harmony.

My advice to those who have never lived in the area or the UK is waste your time elsewhere and don't try to paint a picture from your ignorance.

[Morch]

It's alright if you didn't really mean it?

Yes, of course.

It's exactly the same as the "I'm gonna kill you" said in anger yet everybody knows you have no intention of murder, you are not a potential murderer, and that the words were hollow. You did not really threaten to kill, you mouthed off.

The words are not magic. Even "Abracadabra" has to be accompanied with intent for it to work.

Antisemitism, by it's very definition implies hatred against Jews. If an ignorant yobbo, who does not hate Jews but does despise Israel's crimes says "The Gaza massacre is equivalent to the holocaust", we sensible people know he is not an antisemite, but an anti-Israeli who used an inapt reference.

There seems to be, over the last few months especially, a resurgence in the propagandist attempts to convey a deeper magic onto the word "antisemite". As our friend JT is so fond (ad nauseum) of writing "(hatred of Jews)" every time he writes the word "antisemite", we know very well that to be an antisemite, you must hate Jews. Saying "Hitler" out loud does not make one an antisemite. Saying "Israel is doing ethnic cleansing, just like Hitler did" does not make the speaker an antisemite. He may be, or not, but that utterance does not make him one.

I don't know that it makes one an antisemitic, I'm pretty sure it raises the odds one is.

As for the I-didn't-really-mean-it, sounds like an easy way out.

Ok, you're entitled to your opinion, it is not an entirely unreasonable one. What would be unreasonable would be to jump to a definite conclusion on a person being an antisemite (jew hater), just because he speaks of holocausts or Hitler when refering to Israel.

"Possible antisemite" would be more appropriate in future, as from your own admission, you're basing it on the odds, not the facts.

I did not "admit" to anything.

When I make my mind up on someone's opinions it is usually after having prolonged exposure to what he expresses on relevant topics. Usually try not to jump to conclusions, unless its too obvious to interpret otherwise. What I meant was simply, that relying on such comparisons is often indicative of antisemitic bias. It may not always be the case, it may be less pronounced or less obvious, but its there. If someone wishes to simply criticize Israel, there is no specific need to allude to the Nazis - many more fitting examples for comparison. The extra bonus of resorting to the Nazi comparison is aimed at robbing Jews of their right to say anything when antisemitism raises its head.

[Morch]

Sadly this thread has has degenerated in to the usual arguments from a couple of posters that are not related to the reality.

Golders Green in London is probably the biggest centre of Jewish population in the UK.

Sadly some of the loudest voices on here have no knowledge of the UK or London and are spouting rubbish.

It is a nice middle class suburb where a cross section of people from various backgrounds live in harmony.

My advice to those who have never lived in the area or the UK is waste your time elsewhere and don't try to paint a picture from your ignorance.

And nobody was even contradicting this.

[Jingthing]

Yeah, at this point, not very many people are suggesting that the UK is no longer a safe place for Jews to live compared to France or Sweden. But warning signs are warning signs.

[Seastallion]

Yes, of course.

It's exactly the same as the "I'm gonna kill you" said in anger yet everybody knows you have no intention of murder, you are not a potential murderer, and that the words were hollow. You did not really threaten to kill, you mouthed off.

The words are not magic. Even "Abracadabra" has to be accompanied with intent for it to work.

Antisemitism, by it's very definition implies hatred against Jews. If an ignorant yobbo, who does not hate Jews but does despise Israel's crimes says "The Gaza massacre is equivalent to the holocaust", we sensible people know he is not an antisemite, but an anti-Israeli who used an inapt reference.

There seems to be, over the last few months especially, a resurgence in the propagandist attempts to convey a deeper magic onto the word "antisemite". As our friend JT is so fond (ad nauseum) of writing "(hatred of Jews)" every time he writes the word "antisemite", we know very well that to be an antisemite, you must hate Jews. Saying "Hitler" out loud does not make one an antisemite. Saying "Israel is doing ethnic cleansing, just like Hitler did" does not make the speaker an antisemite. He may be, or not, but that utterance does not make him one.

I don't know that it makes one an antisemitic, I'm pretty sure it raises the odds one is.

As for the I-didn't-really-mean-it, sounds like an easy way out.

Ok, you're entitled to your opinion, it is not an entirely unreasonable one. What would be unreasonable would be to jump to a definite conclusion on a person being an antisemite (jew hater), just because he speaks of holocausts or Hitler when refering to Israel.

"Possible antisemite" would be more appropriate in future, as from your own admission, you're basing it on the odds, not the facts.

I did not "admit" to anything.

When I make my mind up on someone's opinions it is usually after having prolonged exposure to what he expresses on relevant topics. Usually try not to jump to conclusions, unless its too obvious to interpret otherwise. What I meant was simply, that relying on such comparisons is often indicative of antisemitic bias. It may not always be the case, it may be less pronounced or less obvious, but its there. If someone wishes to simply criticize Israel, there is no specific need to allude to the Nazis - many more fitting examples for comparison. The extra bonus of resorting to the Nazi comparison is aimed at robbing Jews of their right to say anything when antisemitism raises its head.

You said that you're sure it raises the odds.

But now you're talking about you and this forum. I was talking generally and to the OP.

So.....Hitler and holocaust references have odds that they are actual antisemitic, and thus odds that they are not.

What I contend is that the report used in the OP exaggerates the problem and that some so-called antisemitic verbal or written attacks are not antisemitic at all. Odds are.

Looking at our closest actual reference to real people in the UK on this thread, ie the Jews in the audience of Question Time video posted, we can see a group of people intent on seeing any criticism of Israel or Zionists as antisemitism.

I think the report in the OP exaggerates the problem.

[Jay Sata]

Yeah, at this point, not very many people are suggesting that the UK is no longer a safe place for Jews to live compared to France or Sweden. But warning signs are warning signs.

Please post from your experience and not google.

You don't reply to any of my statements and facts because you have not got a clue about what we are talking about.

What do you know about Golders Green?

All your bluster with no facts from experience!