Israel intercepts Gaza-bound shipment of materials for weapons making

[Thorgal]

All this according to a spokesman from Shin Bet...

Than it must be true !

[dexterm]

There should be a limit of Just two posts per topic by a member.

I have a better idea. Stop posters who constantly post easily proven lies from posting after they have been caught out a few times. Why penalize members who keep their posts factual and have opinions that they have come by honestly? It would certainly improve the content of these threads and be fair to everyone. All one has to do is make sure their claims can be backed up with facts from a credible source.

Presumably UG, you would chair the committee for proven facts, credible sources and righthink.

That would just be plain censorship, rather than a lively open forum.

[konying]

All this according to a spokesman from Shin Bet...

Than it must be true !

Considering that it is of the best if not the best Intelligence agencies in world, then yeah it is

Edited February 14, 2015 by konying

[kieran2698]

Fiber glass rockets and mortars? This can't be serious.

It's restriced as it is always used to make their mortors and never to fix their motors, just like cement which is also banned, is always for tunnel building and never for rebuilding their city following Israeli airstrikes.

The reason they banned books, candles, crayons, clothing, cups, cutlery, crockery, glasses, light bulbs, matches, musical instruments, needles, sheets, blankets, shoes and mattresses in 2009? Anyone?

The Hamas does control materials making their way into the Gaza strip, be it via illegal smuggling or authorized shipments. The main issue with concrete is indeed that it is used for Hamas projects rather than for the benefit of the civilian populations. The Hamas steadfastly refuses to any viable controls over use of construction materials and dual-use materials. Even when such measures are temporarily agreed upon conditions are often broken. The shortage of cement and other construction materials are probably one issue which Gazan's feel relatively free to express their displeasure at.

And yes, many of the items on the banned list make no sense. This by itself does not mean that there are no credible issues with regard to dual-use materials.

"This by itself does not mean that there are no credible issues with regard to dual-use materials."

It casts doubt against any reason they give for restricting anything.

This is an interesting development from Gaza.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/12/palestine-gaza-reconstruction--siege-new-technology.html#

[sirineou]

The Palestinians have themselves to blame for the defensible blockade of Gaza.

what a surprise you would say that

[kieran2698]

All this according to a spokesman from Shin Bet...

Than it must be true !

Considering that it is of the best if not the best Intelligence agencies in world, then yeah it is

The best in the world at extracting confessions?

[konying]

All this according to a spokesman from Shin Bet...

Than it must be true !

Considering that it is of the best if not the best Intelligence agencies in world, then yeah it is

The best in the world at extracting confessions?

Confused with Revolutionary guard or Isis by any chance?

[Jingthing]

Some facts:

Hamas IS re-arming.

Gaza IS a mess.

Money pledged to help rebuild not forthcoming.

Why?

Go ahead.

Blame Israel.

Blame the USA.

Blame Egypt.

But what a second ... how about looking at HAMAS?!?

Sure people want to give money to help and they should want to give money to help ... but where does the money go?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/world/2015/02/13/gaza-misery/?hpid=z1

The economy is in deep recession; pledges of billions in aid have not been honored; and the Islamist movement Hamas, which controls the enclave, refuses to loosen its grip and is preparing again for war.

...


‘A dirty diaper’

One reason for the reluctance to deliver funds is the Islamist militant movement Hamas, which retains control of Gaza and its 1.8 million residents.

...

A foreign diplomat whose government runs aid programs in Gaza, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said Abbas and his government see the strip as “a dirty diaper. No one wants to touch it.”

Edited February 14, 2015 by Jingthing

[Morch]

Fiber glass rockets and mortars? This can't be serious.

It's restriced as it is always used to make their mortors and never to fix their motors, just like cement which is also banned, is always for tunnel building and never for rebuilding their city following Israeli airstrikes.

The reason they banned books, candles, crayons, clothing, cups, cutlery, crockery, glasses, light bulbs, matches, musical instruments, needles, sheets, blankets, shoes and mattresses in 2009? Anyone?

The Hamas does control materials making their way into the Gaza strip, be it via illegal smuggling or authorized shipments. The main issue with concrete is indeed that it is used for Hamas projects rather than for the benefit of the civilian populations. The Hamas steadfastly refuses to any viable controls over use of construction materials and dual-use materials. Even when such measures are temporarily agreed upon conditions are often broken. The shortage of cement and other construction materials are probably one issue which Gazan's feel relatively free to express their displeasure at.

And yes, many of the items on the banned list make no sense. This by itself does not mean that there are no credible issues with regard to dual-use materials.

"This by itself does not mean that there are no credible issues with regard to dual-use materials."

It casts doubt against any reason they give for restricting anything.

This is an interesting development from Gaza.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/12/palestine-gaza-reconstruction--siege-new-technology.html#

No really, there is very little argument that Hamas does use materials to advance its own projects (be it construction or armament). There is also very little argument that Hamas is not ready to accept outside controls over funds and materials.

The story linked is indeed interesting. Well done for the guy mentioned, quite resourceful and sounds like a right kind of attitude.

Mind, the story does not actually get into the whys - why funds for rehabilitation of Gaza are not transferred, and why construction materials are not brought in. Answers are more to do with the Hamas and the inter-Palestinian split than with anything else.

[kieran2698]

The Hamas does control materials making their way into the Gaza strip, be it via illegal smuggling or authorized shipments. The main issue with concrete is indeed that it is used for Hamas projects rather than for the benefit of the civilian populations. The Hamas steadfastly refuses to any viable controls over use of construction materials and dual-use materials. Even when such measures are temporarily agreed upon conditions are often broken. The shortage of cement and other construction materials are probably one issue which Gazan's feel relatively free to express their displeasure at.

And yes, many of the items on the banned list make no sense. This by itself does not mean that there are no credible issues with regard to dual-use materials.

"This by itself does not mean that there are no credible issues with regard to dual-use materials."

It casts doubt against any reason they give for restricting anything.

This is an interesting development from Gaza.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/12/palestine-gaza-reconstruction--siege-new-technology.html#

No really, there is very little argument that Hamas does use materials to advance its own projects (be it construction or armament). There is also very little argument that Hamas is not ready to accept outside controls over funds and materials.

The story linked is indeed interesting. Well done for the guy mentioned, quite resourceful and sounds like a right kind of attitude.

Mind, the story does not actually get into the whys - why funds for rehabilitation of Gaza are not transferred, and why construction materials are not brought in. Answers are more to do with the Hamas and the inter-Palestinian split than with anything else.

There will always be people who accept their situation and others who fight to improve it. The divide will persist regardless but the extremes we have seen will only continue as long as Israel continues to dominate them in such an extreme way. It's all quite natural considering their situation and the answer can only come from Israel retreating from the entire originally agreed upon Palestinian territory.

[Jingthing]

"Originally agreed upon Palestinian territory" ???

Huh.

You really need to be much more specific about what you mean.

Anyway, this thread is about Gaza.

If you mean the West Bank, how does that stop Hamas from doing what they do?

Keeping in mind, you do realize the goal of Hamas is no Israel at all.

Which of course they can't achieve with what they've got ... but their intentions are relevant.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Jingthing

[SheungWan]

I am really getting sick and tired of this endless pointless and hopeless bickering between Thai Hermits - foreigners one or another way stuck here in Thailand.

Sure, I am here as well, but I try to live and enjoy every moment of what is left.

Here I see a fight of never to be reconciled groups. One is for Jews, Israel etc. and the other is against Jews, Israel etc.

These two groups will never stop fighting! Not in another 3,000 years!

You guys are all irrelevant! (myself included)

Jews exist! Never mind you like them or not.

Israel exists! Never mind you like it or not.

Want to be relevant? Fine... - Go and sign in with Hamas, or IS, or IDF, or Mossad...

But no! - You prefer this verbal jerk-off - sitting in Thailand and "fighting" verbal fights for the noble cause of your choice.

As far as Jews, Israel, antisemitism, Zionism, Palestine etc. are concerned -

You are irrelevant!

Well, when you and others make the nasty accusation of this group being "against Jews", you will be contradicted for your lie.

Some nasty guys wear nasty caps that fit just so.

[Morch]

The Hamas does control materials making their way into the Gaza strip, be it via illegal smuggling or authorized shipments. The main issue with concrete is indeed that it is used for Hamas projects rather than for the benefit of the civilian populations. The Hamas steadfastly refuses to any viable controls over use of construction materials and dual-use materials. Even when such measures are temporarily agreed upon conditions are often broken. The shortage of cement and other construction materials are probably one issue which Gazan's feel relatively free to express their displeasure at.

And yes, many of the items on the banned list make no sense. This by itself does not mean that there are no credible issues with regard to dual-use materials.

"This by itself does not mean that there are no credible issues with regard to dual-use materials."

It casts doubt against any reason they give for restricting anything.

This is an interesting development from Gaza.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/12/palestine-gaza-reconstruction--siege-new-technology.html#

No really, there is very little argument that Hamas does use materials to advance its own projects (be it construction or armament). There is also very little argument that Hamas is not ready to accept outside controls over funds and materials.

The story linked is indeed interesting. Well done for the guy mentioned, quite resourceful and sounds like a right kind of attitude.

Mind, the story does not actually get into the whys - why funds for rehabilitation of Gaza are not transferred, and why construction materials are not brought in. Answers are more to do with the Hamas and the inter-Palestinian split than with anything else.

There will always be people who accept their situation and others who fight to improve it. The divide will persist regardless but the extremes we have seen will only continue as long as Israel continues to dominate them in such an extreme way. It's all quite natural considering their situation and the answer can only come from Israel retreating from the entire originally agreed upon Palestinian territory.

There is no guarantee that hostilities will cease even if Israel was to clear out of the West Bank. There is no one that can actually guarantee this, even if he's a poster on TVF. Such a hypothetical Israeli withdrawal will not include lifting of the blockade without proper assurances as to who is in control and security issues being satisfied. The Palestinian divide itself is unlikely to be solved simply as a result of an Israeli withdrawal.

The notion of lift the blockade and Hamas will lay down its arms is not a real proposition.

[Ulysses G.]

There should be a limit of Just two posts per topic by a member.

I have a better idea. Stop posters who constantly post easily proven lies from posting after they have been caught out a few times. Why penalize members who keep their posts factual and have opinions that they have come by honestly? It would certainly improve the content of these threads and be fair to everyone. All one has to do is make sure their claims can be backed up with facts from a credible source.

Presumably UG, you would chair the committee for proven facts, credible sources and righthink.

That would just be plain censorship, rather than a lively open forum.

Actually it would be the moderators. I have a feeling you would either have to change what you post completely or would not be around for long.

[Chicog]

Why would we suspend ourselves and why wouldn't he refer to the fact that the Palestinians were caught smuggling arms making materials: Liquid fiberglass, used for rocket and mortar launching tubes? The terrorists were caught red-handed and confessed. Of course he might bring it up.

If you were in an IDF basement with a bunch of Israeli thugs, I'd suspect you'd confess to anything they asked, too.

[Seastallion]

"Originally agreed upon Palestinian territory" ???

Huh.

You really need to be much more specific about what you mean.

Anyway, this thread is about Gaza.

If you mean the West Bank, how does that stop Hamas from doing what they do?

Keeping in mind, you do realize the goal of Hamas is no Israel at all.

Which of course they can't achieve with what they've got ... but their intentions are relevant.

You keep on perpetuating the lie. That is either mischievous or ignorant. Hamas accepts Israel, if it keeps to the pre-1967 borders (with appropriate land swaps).

[Seastallion]

Why would we suspend ourselves and why wouldn't he refer to the fact that the Palestinians were caught smuggling arms making materials: Liquid fiberglass, used for rocket and mortar launching tubes? The terrorists were caught red-handed and confessed. Of course he might bring it up.

If you were in an IDF basement with a bunch of Israeli thugs, I'd suspect you'd confess to anything they asked, too.

What UG and Morch are both ignoring is that the bet was offered because Morch does not think the event was significant, whereas I suggest it was very convenient for Netanyahu's upcoming speech.

"Get out there men, find something that "proves" Hamas is out to get us"....next minute, boat repair kits are intercepted...."Rocket-making materials!!!!!!"

They (the "best intelligence service in the world") couldn't find any explosive ingredients, just fibreglass.

How to make a rocket from dried apricots, I wonder?

Why is it that fibreglass resin can be intercepted, and assumed to be nefarious, while sole-purpose, decidedly nefarious stuff that makes rockets explode is not found?

[Morch]

"Originally agreed upon Palestinian territory" ???

Huh.

You really need to be much more specific about what you mean.

Anyway, this thread is about Gaza.

If you mean the West Bank, how does that stop Hamas from doing what they do?

Keeping in mind, you do realize the goal of Hamas is no Israel at all.

Which of course they can't achieve with what they've got ... but their intentions are relevant.

You keep on perpetuating the lie. That is either mischievous or ignorant. Hamas accepts Israel, if it keeps to the pre-1967 borders (with appropriate land swaps).

And yet you are unable to find any credible recent link to support this.

Or will this be another instance of explaining about Hamas moderates?

The best Hamas "accepted" was a truce (which does not actually carry the same meaning as in English), on condition of full Israeli retreat to the 1967 lines, applying the Right of Return and the whole thing conditional on approval by referendum. All that, by the way - and still not an official recognition of Israel, or a proper peace deal. This notion was raised a while back, at a point in time when Hamas was desperate to gain international acceptance. Not on the cards these days anyway.

[Morch]

Why would we suspend ourselves and why wouldn't he refer to the fact that the Palestinians were caught smuggling arms making materials: Liquid fiberglass, used for rocket and mortar launching tubes? The terrorists were caught red-handed and confessed. Of course he might bring it up.

If you were in an IDF basement with a bunch of Israeli thugs, I'd suspect you'd confess to anything they asked, too.

What UG and Morch are both ignoring is that the bet was offered because Morch does not think the event was significant, whereas I suggest it was very convenient for Netanyahu's upcoming speech.

"Get out there men, find something that "proves" Hamas is out to get us"....next minute, boat repair kits are intercepted...."Rocket-making materials!!!!!!"

They (the "best intelligence service in the world") couldn't find any explosive ingredients, just fibreglass.

How to make a rocket from dried apricots, I wonder?

Why is it that fibreglass resin can be intercepted, and assumed to be nefarious, while sole-purpose, decidedly nefarious stuff that makes rockets explode is not found?

You are aware that you're making things up, right?

As in, what you posted did not actually happen?

Alright.

If it is hard for you to accept that this did not make a lot of headlines in either Israeli or Palestinian media, can't help you - it's one of them facts. I have no idea why you suppose that other materials are not caught (may want to check Egyptian press for the latest), or that Hamas does not succeed in smuggling in materials (they are conducting rocket test launches quite regularly).

It seems that so far the one blowing things out of proportion is you.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts have been removed.

[Ulysses G.]

[Hamas accepts Israel, if it keeps to the pre-1967 borders (with appropriate land swaps).

Why do the Israel-bashing crew keep posting fabrications? This is not true and it has been proven over and over again on this forum. It never happened.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

[Hamas accepts Israel, if it keeps to the pre-1967 borders (with appropriate land swaps).

Why do the Israel-bashing crew keep posting fabrications? This is not true and it has been proven over and over again on this forum. It never happened.

Alternate universes, perhaps.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Jingthing

[Seastallion]

"Originally agreed upon Palestinian territory" ???

Huh.

You really need to be much more specific about what you mean.

Anyway, this thread is about Gaza.

If you mean the West Bank, how does that stop Hamas from doing what they do?

Keeping in mind, you do realize the goal of Hamas is no Israel at all.

Which of course they can't achieve with what they've got ... but their intentions are relevant.

You keep on perpetuating the lie. That is either mischievous or ignorant. Hamas accepts Israel, if it keeps to the pre-1967 borders (with appropriate land swaps).

And yet you are unable to find any credible recent link to support this.

Or will this be another instance of explaining about Hamas moderates?

The best Hamas "accepted" was a truce (which does not actually carry the same meaning as in English), on condition of full Israeli retreat to the 1967 lines, applying the Right of Return and the whole thing conditional on approval by referendum. All that, by the way - and still not an official recognition of Israel, or a proper peace deal. This notion was raised a while back, at a point in time when Hamas was desperate to gain international acceptance. Not on the cards these days anyway.

That is still very different from "Hamas's goal is no Israel at all". It's a lie.

[Seastallion]

Why would we suspend ourselves and why wouldn't he refer to the fact that the Palestinians were caught smuggling arms making materials: Liquid fiberglass, used for rocket and mortar launching tubes? The terrorists were caught red-handed and confessed. Of course he might bring it up.

If you were in an IDF basement with a bunch of Israeli thugs, I'd suspect you'd confess to anything they asked, too.

What UG and Morch are both ignoring is that the bet was offered because Morch does not think the event was significant, whereas I suggest it was very convenient for Netanyahu's upcoming speech.

"Get out there men, find something that "proves" Hamas is out to get us"....next minute, boat repair kits are intercepted...."Rocket-making materials!!!!!!"

They (the "best intelligence service in the world") couldn't find any explosive ingredients, just fibreglass.

How to make a rocket from dried apricots, I wonder?

Why is it that fibreglass resin can be intercepted, and assumed to be nefarious, while sole-purpose, decidedly nefarious stuff that makes rockets explode is not found?

You are aware that you're making things up, right?

As in, what you posted did not actually happen?

Alright.

If it is hard for you to accept that this did not make a lot of headlines in either Israeli or Palestinian media, can't help you - it's one of them facts. I have no idea why you suppose that other materials are not caught (may want to check Egyptian press for the latest), or that Hamas does not succeed in smuggling in materials (they are conducting rocket test launches quite regularly).

It seems that so far the one blowing things out of proportion is you.

Come on....fibreglass resin makes a story and explosive ingredients don't?

I suggest that should anything definitely explosive or rocket related would make a headline.

My scenario is quite feasible.

[dexterm]

There should be a limit of Just two posts per topic by a member.

I have a better idea. Stop posters who constantly post easily proven lies from posting after they have been caught out a few times. Why penalize members who keep their posts factual and have opinions that they have come by honestly? It would certainly improve the content of these threads and be fair to everyone. All one has to you post something with links and Ido is make sure their claims can be backed up with facts from a credible source.

Presumably UG, you would chair the committee for proven facts, credible sources and righthink.

That would just be plain censorship, rather than a lively open forum.

Actually it would be the moderators. I have a feeling you would either have to change what you post completely or would not be around for long.

If the truth disagrees with your view of the world, your usual method is to call it a fabrication, and if that doesn't work, you besmirch the source and the poster. Now you want to go one step further and silence the messenger.

Dr Goebbels, Pol Pot and Big Brother shared your methodology.

How about you post your opinion with links, I post my opinion with links, and readers decide where the truth lies. That's why it's called a forum and not a mutual admiration society for good ole redneck boys.

Edited February 15, 2015 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

If the truth disagrees with your view of the world, your usual method is to call it a fabrication, and if that doesn't work, you besmirch the source and the poster.

Only if I can prove it is a blatant lie and I have done so with your posts repeatedly, often using your own links as evidence. It was not my idea, but why would you object to the Thai Visa moderators deciding what is a lie and what is not, if they were willing to make a ruling? They are pretty careful about being fair and impartial when it comes to facts and it would stop some members from posting completely dishonest information over and over again.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[sirineou]

These Palestinians are so unresonable, , The European and American Jew ocupiers, have created a heaven on earth for them, and to repay them they resist.

Ungreatful bastards!!

[Ulysses G.]

Actually, they have created a purgatory for themselves. Terrorism has given Israel very valid reasons to restrict their freedoms and the more they fight, the more they lose and the more miserable their lives become.

All they do is complain about the defensive blockade and the security wall, but both work and the Palestinians themselves are responsible for them.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[konying]

These Palestinians are so unresonable, , The European and American Jew ocupiers, have created a heaven on earth for them, and to repay them they resist.

Ungreatful bastards!!

You not far off from the truth there.

If it was not for those European and American Jew occupiers, Fakestiians still be riding donkeys in search of fresh water and green grass.

[sirineou]

These Palestinians are so unresonable, , The European and American Jew ocupiers, have created a heaven on earth for them, and to repay them they resist.

Ungreatful bastards!!

You not far off from the truth there.

If it was not for those European and American Jew occupiers, Fakestiians still be riding donkeys in search of fresh water and green grass.

instead of being riden like donkeys,

what a racist thing to say