There is something seriously wrong with this toilet, please confirm

[solstan]

I have 3 bags / plastic seals. The RED bag does not inflate at all. The BLUE seal will inflate if you seal off the overflow tube securely. The bag marked YELLOW over the overflow value will inflate as long as blue is sealed.

There is obviously a link from the BLUE to the YELLOW bag, pushing down on blue will inflate yellow a little bit and vice versa, this is normal in all toilets as the jets and overflow connect to the bowl. What's not normal is for there to be a third connection to this area from the sewage tube.

In a couple days I will get a new toilet and all the answers will be known.

Yepp, the blue and yellow should be conneted. Thats normal.

If the red seal doesnt stop the smell then there is a problem inside or below. The unit might be broken or the attachment to the floor piping might be bad. Still - when you change it, flush the floor pipe with a a lot of water ...

[ChiangraiTony]

The condo where I live and many of the residents complain about the same thing. I removed the ceramic toilet twice and the seal was missing. I found a wax seal and had it installed and the toilet set properly. The odor didn't go away. I tried covering the two floor drains that I have in the bathroom and that helped a lot. However, after further checks it was determined that when the condo was built, the contractors did not install the plumbing correctly. The P-traps are either missing completely and the air vents are not correctly configured. After two or three years later, the condo and original contractor will not fix the problem.

One thing that was also observed was that when the septic tank gets near full the smell comes back. The smell isn't everyday. Now the smell has almost completely gone away.

Why??? The condo management was trying to save on electricity usages and the timers were set-up where the electrical pumps to the septic only came on for a short time where as now after the residents have complained, the condo now set-up the pumps of the septic tank to turn on more frequently. This has made things to improve considerably. Now maybe once in 4-5 months will there be a slight odor. Therefore, if you reside in a condo or have a septic tank with electrical pump to circulate and allow better air circulation for ventilation you may want to investigate other options other than your toilet.

[Simons3]

Lots of possibilities here...

it could very well be a casting flaw.. the manufacture process is automated and the machines would have glazed over the flaw giving it a finished look.

it could also be a design flaw , but not probable, the whole purpose of todays toilets is to remove the waste from the bowl using a siphon, adding the additional breather hole defeats that.

So my guess is , it was a defective casting that got thrown out, and someone picked it up and sold it cheap to the Builder.

Options..

Call the manufacturer, send them the picture and ask them if the toilet is defective, they may well replace it free of charge!

or.. as you have the toilet removed take the opportunity to fill the hole with Silicone and let it cure .

or.. buy new toilet.. but check underneath first!

also the bottom of the toilet is the cleanest ive ever seen one pulled from service.. did they have a wax seal installed ? I definite must when you put it back

[nithisa78]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bWHt9FR0b_M

[Globalist]

I've seen such a connection from the drain area going "back" towards the bowl in siphon-type flush toilets, even by high-end foreign brands.

See for example http://www.americanstandard.co.th/backend/product/file/download/download-1345649625.pdf

I assumed it was somehow part of the siphon flushing system, but obviously not leaving a permanent open path from the toilet floor drain to the room. So I'm a bit sceptical to it being a design flaw.

Nevertheless, I've never seen such a connection in a toilet bowl with a wash-down flushing system so maybe that type is safer in this respect.

[llp]

I've seen such a connection from the drain area going "back" towards the bowl in siphon-type flush toilets, even by high-end foreign brands.

See for example http://www.americanstandard.co.th/backend/product/file/download/download-1345649625.pdf

I assumed it was somehow part of the siphon flushing system, but obviously not leaving a permanent open path from the toilet floor drain to the room. So I'm a bit sceptical to it being a design flaw.

Nevertheless, I've never seen such a connection in a toilet bowl with a wash-down flushing system so maybe that type is safer in this respect.

Thanks for posting this link. If this design was accurate, then all the water would leak down into this hole, leaving no water in the bowl. So given this, I decided to call up American Standard (NOT the brand that I have) and they were very helpful. They pulled up this specific pdf and told me that the hole is closed after leaving the factory, with a nice finish over it. He stated that the hole is for quality control to test for any gas leaks, and then closed afterwards. So look for any holes under the toilet before installation. Now technically I can just plug this hole, but its not worth my time, and there can be other defects, will just go buy American Standard which is easier.

Edited February 16, 2015 by llp

[aboctok]

Finally, a momentous topic. Congratulations, everybody.

[Globalist]

I've seen such a connection from the drain area going "back" towards the bowl in siphon-type flush toilets, even by high-end foreign brands.

See for example http://www.americanstandard.co.th/backend/product/file/download/download-1345649625.pdf

I assumed it was somehow part of the siphon flushing system, but obviously not leaving a permanent open path from the toilet floor drain to the room. So I'm a bit sceptical to it being a design flaw.

Nevertheless, I've never seen such a connection in a toilet bowl with a wash-down flushing system so maybe that type is safer in this respect.

Thanks for posting this link. If this design was accurate, then all the water would leak down into this hole, leaving no water in the bowl. So given this, I decided to call up American Standard (NOT the brand that I have) and they were very helpful. They pulled up this specific pdf and told me that the hole is closed after leaving the factory, with a nice finish over it. He stated that the hole is for quality control to test for any gas leaks, and then closed afterwards. So look for any holes under the toilet before installation. Now technically I can just plug this hole, but its not worth my time, and there can be other defects, will just go buy American Standard which is easier.

Good research, I also wondered how that hole could actually be there... :-) Obviously, if they plug it from the bowl-side, it will always be visible from the drain side.

I had a similar sewage smell problem where the root cause was a too short wall-to-drain distance, finally solved it with a flexible rough-in toilet http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/777775-sewage-smell-in-condo-any-ideas/

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post.

[cliveshep]

For those who think toilet bowls don't have flaws - take the train from Don Mueng towards Ayuthaya. Off to the right about 10 clicks out you'll see an entire field of broken ceramic toilet bowls.

So clearly there are problems in manufacture that are getting picked up.

[DrDave]

Thank you, OP, for all of this information.

I too have a problem with sewer gas entering the home. I'm fairly certain that there are no P-traps installed anywhere (floor drains, toilets, shower drains), and the stacks are not vented. The problem seems to be the worst on windy days - if we open the windows, we get enough negative pressure in the bathrooms to suck up more gas. The same goes for running the ceiling vent fans for more than a few minutes.

You've given me a lot of things to consider and test.

One question: You mentioned that got a methane detector. Where did you get it, and what was the approximate cost?

Thanks!

[2fishin2]

If you can smell poop, you have methane. Dont need a detector for that. Its free and on the front of your face. And yes Thais dont know how to properly plumb a house

[llp]

Thank you, OP, for all of this information.

I too have a problem with sewer gas entering the home. I'm fairly certain that there are no P-traps installed anywhere (floor drains, toilets, shower drains), and the stacks are not vented. The problem seems to be the worst on windy days - if we open the windows, we get enough negative pressure in the bathrooms to suck up more gas. The same goes for running the ceiling vent fans for more than a few minutes.

You've given me a lot of things to consider and test.

One question: You mentioned that got a methane detector. Where did you get it, and what was the approximate cost?

Thanks!

I knew nothing about plumbing a few months ago and learned everything from google and youtube. All toilets have built in traps goes straight to sewage line, you need a perfect wax seal or cement around the base and all bolt holes plugged. Floor drains might have a p trap you can use flashlight to see standing water or pour some in. If not, that metal cap doesnt help much but there are specially products for sale for floor drains that can be installed without tearing up floors and adding a trap. Sinks should have a u trap sometimes its a metal T shape pipe like you see under urinals. Methane detector is about 35 USD from eBay but can find them online in Thailand also for 1200 baht or so. Its very sensitive but adjustable will go off on your breathe which contains methane. Methane is odorless but is the main componment of most gas...sewage gas smell is from ammonia and hydrogen sulfide. In the USA a plumber can run a smoke test after all traps are installed. Connect smoke generator to sewage line and see where the smoke comes out in the house. Other causes can be a dead rodent..or dirty water in a trap can be fixed with pouring hot water and bleach. I've read reports of people spending hundred if not thousands of dollars battling smells because sometimes they are very hard to find the source.

[llp]

If you can smell poop, you have methane. Dont need a detector for that. Its free and on the front of your face. And yes Thais dont know how to properly plumb a house

Yes you dont need a detector can use your nose, its mostly used to detect explosive leaks around piping. But given the small cost I got one to isolate the source because the whole bathroom smelled, could have been the room piping above or below. Before that I got a formaldehyde detector, a VOC gas and got rid of the mattress, but again can just use your nose.

Edited February 17, 2015 by llp

[piston broke]

Here is example of how Drain ventilation

should look.

If the house not have this properly install. Then the problem with smell persist.

i seem to have a similar problem and have sent you a PM......

[kamalabob2]

I've bought a few toilets in my time in Thailand for several houses. I familiar with the Mogen like the OP has shown in the photo. Mogen is part of STWO which also markets Starmark Kitchens. http://www.stwo.co.th/ If he bought it at HomePro they should honor a 30 day money back guarantee. Thaiwatsadu should honor the 30 day money back policy on a toilet. I know for a fact what the American Standard one day a month policy for actual service calls in Buriram. I originally bought some American Standard Champion toilets and I had to be persistent with American Standard, (Lixil) to provide customer service in the warranty period in Buriram. My experience with Cotto had been far different. Cotto is no longer with Toto but they will come to Buriram within three days of a valid service call. In fact for a fee they will install a toilet in Buriram with a guarantee. Any Cotto main dealer, not a re-seller who buys from a middle man, can get this sort of service from Cotto for any customer. If the OP checks in advance to see how promptly the toilet manufacturer will send a service team to his home in his province it might help him in selecting a toilet. The prices on Cotto toilet models at Homepro, Thaiwatsadu and most Home Marts is almost identical. Some Global House stores, but not all Global House stores sell Cotto. Homepro charges 950 baht to install a standard toilet and will install for "free" on certain higher end toilet models.

Edited February 25, 2015 by kamalabob2

[Prapaexpert]

I've had a my toilet reset on a wax seal, and cemented down, twice!

Once by a handyman, and once again bought another wax seal and had a "professional" plumber who did a much better job, set up the flange properly, and filled up all the bolt holes as well as a precaution .

But the sewage gas persisted. I even got a methane detector to confirm the problem is from the toilet.

Now look and behold when I look the exact same model from underneath, there is a hole before the internal s-trap. All the gas is going into this hole and out the jet holes, as well as out the overflow pipe perhaps.

Please someone confirm with me this is not normal for a toilet to be manufactured like this. This a brand name toilet one piece modern design.

It was my understanding that excess water should flow into the toilet bowl, hence no holes before the s-trap.

What have happend?

Have you replaced the toilet and solved the problem?

[llp]

Yes, problem solved 100%. Looking at the bottom of the same make/model toilet in the store, I can see that hole sealed with porcelain. I then looked at the bottom of some other reputable brands and they have a open hole as well but it is sealed deeper in. On the American Standard model I bought it had a hole for quality testing as well, and I filled it up with water while having the toilet upside down just to make sure it was sealed. I confirmed with the person in the store that the brand/ model I previously had that the hole should have been sealed after factory on the outside, and that this model has had issues in the past with leaking gas, even though it is the best selling model (good price and looks very modern with dual flush).

So the hole might not necessary mean its faulty model as the seal for the hole might be deeper inside instead of on the outside, depending on the make/model. Going with a reputable brand is probably your best bet.

Edited March 22, 2015 by llp

[pokerkid]

On 3/23/2015 at 3:01 AM, llp said:

Yes, problem solved 100%. Looking at the bottom of the same make/model toilet in the store, I can see that hole sealed with porcelain. I then looked at the bottom of some other reputable brands and they have a open hole as well but it is sealed deeper in. On the American Standard model I bought it had a hole for quality testing as well, and I filled it up with water while having the toilet upside down just to make sure it was sealed. I confirmed with the person in the store that the brand/ model I previously had that the hole should have been sealed after factory on the outside, and that this model has had issues in the past with leaking gas, even though it is the best selling model (good price and looks very modern with dual flush).

So the hole might not necessary mean its faulty model as the seal for the hole might be deeper inside instead of on the outside, depending on the make/model. Going with a reputable brand is probably your best bet.

was the brand Moya by any chance ? 

[CGW]

Our toilets all have this hole! (mogen brand) it comes filled in, I had some problems with one toilet flushing, long story cut short, if I unplugged the hole the toilet would flush, installing a vent line on sewage tank solved the flushing problem with the hole resealed.