Giuliani questions Obama's love of US; Democrats cry foul

[up-country_sinclair]

He wasn't brought up the way you were brought up and I was brought up through love of this country," said Giuliani,

I would like someone to explain how being "brought up through love of this country" involves getting several Vietnam War era student deferments, requesting an occupational deferment, and when that was rejected, appealing the rejection, and getting a Federal judge to petition the draft board. And when all those deferments finally expired in 1970, he got a high number and didn't enlist.

And it's seems that Giuliani's father and none of his five (5!) uncles served in World War II.

http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/30661/

That's some way to demonstrate "love of this country".

[bendejo]

I knew this guy in the 1970s when I lived in Denver. He was short, funny-looking, very pale (almost albino looking) and a little bit off between the ears. I thought he was an ok guy, knew him at work, would hang out with him sometimes. I don't think he had a place of his own, always was staying with a different girlfriend. One day he mentioned that he was saved. I sort of knew what it meant, but I asked him about it. He said he was visiting this Christian group (they were probably providing free food), and there were others getting saved and he followed suit. He rolled around on the floor shouting "I love Jesus! I love Jesus!" until a few of the people helped him to his feet and congratulated him. He said ever since then he had no trouble finding girls or amenities (food, place to stay, etc), all he had to do was talk about how he was saved and someone would respond (I think this was somewhat fashionable at that place and time). I asked if he believed in it. He laughed and said "are you kidding?"

So yeah, how do you know someone loves America? Because they say it. That's it! All you have to do is be convincing. Glen Beck loves America more than anybody else because he can cry while he says it. I knew my neighbor in California loved America because he had a US flag hanging outside his house. I guess the rest of us on the block were unpatriotic communists.

The emptiest barrel makes the most noise. When, out of nowhere, someone starts spouting off about how much they support the local police, love their country, make a big show of how religious they are I suspect they are running drugs, molesting their kids, etc. If you wear a US flag pin on your lapel everyone will know you love America, no doubt about it.

So, is Giuliani testing the waters for a run at the WH? Or is he trying to set himself up as a GOP archbishop? Maybe he's trying to get his own show on FN, like Huckabee had.

[sirineou]

Think what u want of the man but the ppl on the right have disrespected the office he holds time and time again while they claim to be patriotic and law abiding. Ppl forget when that azzhole shouted you lie during the state of the union.

Sent from my S4 LTE

Bill Clinton was a perfect example of how the left uses the office of the President...made his term as US President the laughing stock of the entire world with his antics...

and then Bush came and restored our dignity

[media]

[media]

and in the process restored democracy and stability in Iraq

[hhgz]

All Presidents love America. Bush43 loved it to death, and Obama had to bring it back to life.

[Jingthing]

Just another twist on the "birther" movement,

Sad.

If the republicans ever think they are going to win back the presidency this way, well, they won't.

But the questions about his patriotism that emerge from a venomous stew of racism, xenophobia and echo-chamber cable television chatter are ludicrous and say a great deal more about the critics than about the object of their criticism.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/gov-scott-walkers-spineless-silence/2015/02/20/ebf9f626-b91c-11e4-a200-c008a01a6692_story.html

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[Publicus]

Notice how the leftist Giuliani smear campaign is in full swing now seeing as he said some uncomplimentary things about their Deity. Yet still they hold water for someone who can't even admit ISIS are Islamic terrorists, yet still manages to compare their actions now with the crusades. So which is it Mr president. Either ISIS are Islamic terrorists after all or your comparison between them and the Crusaders (a religion based metaphor) is completely without context?

Actually I wish Giuliani had gone further, why question Obama's patriotism when the key question to pose is whether the POTUS is serially incompetent or seditious? If the answer is seditious then the question of Obama's loyalty becomes moot, except perhaps to the Ummah.

Notice how the leftist Giuliani smear campaign is in full swing now

This is political tripe. Anyone who sees such dots before his eyes needs to see an ophthamologist who isn't also on the political fringe because trying to connect those particular and peculiar dots draws an ugly outline.

Any time a partisan political hack comes out from under his rock to spew venom he's going to expose himself to an equal and opposite reaction so that's what Giuliani is and that is what Giuliani has done.

Giuliani is trying to deal in the currency of his Mayor of America fame and glory which anyway had faded substantially and significantly as the result of his failed campaign for prez in 2008 and his extreme political activity the past six years. Giuliani has however gone OTT while also plunging the depths of a tawdry sleaze politics.

Some of us recall the 1992 Republican national convention where for several daze and nights a succession of right wing crackpots was given the podium and microphone to scare the bejesus out of ordinary Americans. The Republican party and its prez G.H.W.Bush had thought they were playing by the ordinary rules when the R party instead cost their incumbent president his job.

Eight years later in 2000 the only way the same political party and the same family was able to get back into the White House was to hang a bunch of ballot chads in Florida.

Look at what they did the next eight years...to include the next eight years after that....and the coming eight years after that too.

[Choctastic]

Have to agree with John Oliver... 'American Politics Is A 'Circus Of Crazy'

[sirineou]

I am or was, an independent voter,and have voted for both, slowly as I become older , I am also becoming cynical and is loosing faith in both parties, but as much as have lost faith in both parties and wish for an independent patriot to lead, I am developing a loathing for the republicans, their menagerie of the Giulianis, Trumps, Sarah Palins, etc, aside from the obvious . insults my intelligence,

Anyone whose intelligence is not insulted, simply does not have any.

ii

[Ulysses G.]

The more Americans that doubt his loyalty

Doubt the president's loyalty to what? Good grief.

Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds to rational, middle of the road voters?

You mean like when Obama questioned Bush's patriotism in 2008 and then got elected anway. Maybe you need to pay more attention to the rest of the thread.

While I give you credit for engaging in an epic feat of spin, your political acumen leaves quite a bit to be desired. Everyone reading this thread knows (primarily because of the youtube videos) that what candidate Obama said is that adding trillions to the debt was unpatriotic because of the affect it would have on future generations. A poor choice of words perhaps, but it does not come close to questioning President Bush's loyalty. What Giuliani said is about President Obama not loving America is jaw-droppingly outrageous.

They both said that same thing, no matter how you try to spin it. Obama called Bush unpatriotic and then did the exact same thing himself once he got elected, only he DOUBLED the amount added to the debt. Giuliani questions Obama's patriotism because of numerous things he - and his wife - has said and done over many years. Personally, I don't know if the president loves America or loathes it, but I do know that his actions have been extremely destructive and that Americans voted him the worst president since WW II. I certainly concur with that.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/poll-obama-worst-president-since-wwii-108507.html

[Berkshire]

I am or was, an independent voter,and have voted for both, slowly as I become older , I am also becoming cynical and is loosing faith in both parties, but as much as have lost faith in both parties and wish for an independent patriot to lead, I am developing a loathing for the republicans, their menagerie of the Giulianis, Trumps, Sarah Palins, etc, aside from the obvious . insults my intelligence,

Anyone whose intelligence is not insulted, simply does not have any.

ii

So true.

[sirineou]

You mean like when Obama questioned Bush's patriotism in 2008 and then got elected anway. Maybe you need to pay more attention to the rest of the thread.

While I give you credit for engaging in an epic feat of spin, your political acumen leaves quite a bit to be desired. Everyone reading this thread knows (primarily because of the youtube videos) that what candidate Obama said is that adding trillions to the debt was unpatriotic because of the affect it would have on future generations. A poor choice of words perhaps, but it does not come close to questioning President Bush's loyalty. What Giuliani said is about President Obama not loving America is jaw-droppingly outrageous.

They both said that same thing, no matter how you try to spin it. Obama called Bush unpatriotic and then did the exact same thing himself once he got elected, only he DOUBLED the amount added to the debt. Giuliani questions Obama's patriotism because of numerous things he - and his wife - has said and done over many years. Personally, I don't know if the president loves America or loathes it, but I do know that his actions have been extremely destructive and that Americans voted him the worst president since WW II. I certainly concur with that.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/poll-obama-worst-president-since-wwii-108507.html

Removed post to allow response

Sorry Ulysses, not the same thing, you are using faulty logic in this.

Obama called Bush unpatriotic on this one act, he did not say that Bush was unpatriotic

Some one can be very patriotic, but commit an unpatriotic act..

where Giuliani said Obama did not love America, he did not say that Obama did not love america in this one thing.

The two are not the same

The same applies in the increase to the debt

Bush but as in dept while driving the country in to a ditch, and Obama increased that dept while trying to pull the country out of the ditch ,in essence both increases were Bushes fault.

[SpokaneAl]

Deja vu all over again.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/02/20/ed-henry-grills-earnest-does-obama-have-regrets-for-calling-bush-43-unpatriotic-video/?EL.fb

Everybody's got something to hide except for me and my monkey!

[Ulysses G.]

As long as we are hair-splitting, Giuliani did not actually say that Obama does not love America. He said that he does not believe that the president loves America, because of weak foreign policy decisions and questionable public remarks about terrorists, terrorism and American responsibility for past events. Those are the acts that he was criticizing, if you read the whole speech. However, both Giuliani AND Obama questioned the patriotism of the President of the United States.

Edited February 22, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Publicus]

Actually I wish Giuliani had gone further, why question Obama's patriotism when the key question to pose is whether the POTUS is serially incompetent or seditious? If the answer is seditious then the question of Obama's loyalty becomes moot, except perhaps to the Ummah.

You wish he had gone further?

Then I guess you have no interest in the GOP winning the presidency in 2016. This sort of hyper-partisan bomb-throwing might play well with extreme teaparty whackjobs, but I can assure you that it leaves independent voters shaking their heads in disbelief at what has happened to the GOP. Winning primary and caucus fights in Iowa and S. Carolina is not the same thing as getting to 270 electoral votes.

By the way, guess who just talked himself out of a prime time speaking slot at the GOP convention next year.

You are out of touch at to what is going on in America. You did take notice of the mid term elections where the Democrats LOST control of the Senate, the number of Democrats seats in the U,S. were reduced by Republican replacements, U.S. State Legislatures have turned Republican along with the Governor's seat ... state governments are now a super majority of Republican control ... Elections have consequences ... Now that a respected Republican leader has said it ... dozens more will say it in a few short days and weeks. Why? Because it is the Truth. obama has no allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, to traditional America, he openly shows his allegiance and favoritism to Islam... I could write a list ten pages long... All this plus obama is a Narcissistic pathological liar, who lies about lying, who lies even when the truth would serve him better. Sure signs of the depth and pathology of his mental state.

You did take notice of the mid term elections

The mid-term election of 2014 is the most recent election the US has had, yes...yes indeed, and the conservatives who accuse Prez Obama of "no allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, to traditional America" love to cite this election and in fact eat, sleep and live by this most recent election. American political conservatives cite the recent mid-terms to verify among themselves that they are right.

However, from January 20th 2009 thru 2012 the same political group refused to accept the result of the 2008 general election.

The same political group have further refused from January 20th 2013 to accept the results of the 2012 general election.

To be respected at all, the conservatives of US politics and society need to be consistent and accept the results of all elections and every election.

Democracy does have minimum standards and norms and they need to be honored and respected. Otherwise the system does not work and cannot succeed. The vast majority of Americans want our democracy to be viable and to succeed.

It is called being civil

Edited by Publicus for spacing.

Edited February 22, 2015 by Publicus

[sirineou]

As long as we are hair-splitting, Giuliani did not actually say that Obama does not love America. He said that he does not believe that the president loves America, because of weak foreign policy decisions and questionable public remarks about terrorists, terrorism and American responsibility for past events. Those are the acts that he was criticizing, if you read the whole speech. However, both Giuliani AND Obama questioned the patriotism of the President of the United States.

must not be Giuliani's hair we are spliting because these hairs are so thick you can split it with a chain saw

Giuliani said at a New York City event on Wednesday night, "I know this is a horrible thing to say, but I do not believe that the president loves America."

"He doesn't love you. And he doesn't love me. He wasn't brought up the way you were brought up and I was brought up through love of this country,"

[CMNightRider]

The more Americans that doubt his loyalty

Doubt the president's loyalty to what? Good grief.

Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds to rational, middle of the road voters?

You mean like when Obama questioned Bush's patriotism in 2008 and then got elected anway. Maybe you need to pay more attention to the rest of the thread.

While I give you credit for engaging in an epic feat of spin, your political acumen leaves quite a bit to be desired. Everyone reading this thread knows (primarily because of the youtube videos) that what candidate Obama said is that adding trillions to the debt was unpatriotic because of the affect it would have on future generations. A poor choice of words perhaps, but it does not come close to questioning President Bush's loyalty. What Giuliani said is about President Obama not loving America is jaw-droppingly outrageous. That is abundantly clear to everyone who isn't a raging hyperpartisan who feasts on that sort of bile.

What is "jaw-dropping outrageous" is Obama getting elected as president in the first place. Good on Giuliani for saying the truth about this guy.

[sirineou]

While I give you credit for engaging in an epic feat of spin, your political acumen leaves quite a bit to be desired. Everyone reading this thread knows (primarily because of the youtube videos) that what candidate Obama said is that adding trillions to the debt was unpatriotic because of the affect it would have on future generations. A poor choice of words perhaps, but it does not come close to questioning President Bush's loyalty. What Giuliani said is about President Obama not loving America is jaw-droppingly outrageous. That is abundantly clear to everyone who isn't a raging hyperpartisan who feasts on that sort of bile.

What is "jaw-dropping outrageous" is Obama getting elected as president in the first place. Good on Giuliani for saying the truth about this guy.

Removed post to allow reply.For good measure I removed one of Ulysses's

Naahh, I think all those who could not believe Obama got elected president were slack jawed to begin with

[CMNightRider]

Did any of them say that they had never been proud of America - in their lifetime - until their husband won a primary?

Rudy and his wives and he's currently upon wife number three....

"Giuliani dropped out of the presidential race, but don't worry about him. He's already busy looking for wife number four." --David Letterman

"Support for Rudy Giuliani has fallen to 12%, and that's just among his children." --Jay Leno

"Giuliani said he wants to make it clear he is not in favor of gay marriage. He believes marriage should be between a man and a woman, no matter how many times it takes them to get it right" --Jay Leno

"According to a new AP poll, the most popular presidential candidate among registered Republicans is 'none of the above.' At the moment, Rudy Giuliani is running third, just behind 'Good Lord, not him.'" --Conan O'Brien

"In an interview with the Christian Broadcasting Network, Rudy Giuliani said he is guided by Jesus and the Bible, and he doesn't want people to judge his private life. He then said, 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.' And then Mitt Romney hit him in the head with a rock" --Jay Leno

Late night hosts have a lot of fun talking about Obama as well.

"The Secret Service said there have been 40 fence-jumping incidents at the White House in the past five years. Half of them were intruders trying to get in. The other half was President Obama trying to get out." –Conan O'Brien

"President Obama was diagnosed with acid reflux. His approval rating is so low that he's starting to get pushback from his esophagus." -Jimmy Kimmel

"Democrats in state legislatures are at their lowest level since the 1920s. President Obama has a can't-miss strategy to save the party in 2016. He's leaving." –Craig Ferguson

"Michelle Obama said she wants Americans to elect a woman president 'as soon as possible.' So even she has had enough of President Obama." –Conan O'Brien

"President Obama's approval rating is down to 39 percent. And Toronto Mayor Rob Ford, who admitted to smoking crack cocaine, went up to 49 percent. How does this make Obama feel? He'd be better off smoking crack than passing Obamacare." –Jay Leno

"Well, finally the long race is over and as usual a guy from Kenya won." –David Letterman

​Although it is entertaining to listen to late night hosts make fun of Obama, there is nothing funny about this guy occupying the White House. Obama is a good example of what is wrong with Socialism and Communism.

[up-country_sinclair]

You mean like when Obama questioned Bush's patriotism in 2008 and then got elected anway. Maybe you need to pay more attention to the rest of the thread.

While I give you credit for engaging in an epic feat of spin, your political acumen leaves quite a bit to be desired. Everyone reading this thread knows (primarily because of the youtube videos) that what candidate Obama said is that adding trillions to the debt was unpatriotic because of the affect it would have on future generations. A poor choice of words perhaps, but it does not come close to questioning President Bush's loyalty. What Giuliani said is about President Obama not loving America is jaw-droppingly outrageous.

They both said that same thing

President Obama:

The problem is, is that the way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion for the first 42 presidents – #43 added $4 trillion by his lonesome, so that we now have over $9 trillion of debt that we are going to have to pay back — $30,000 for every man, woman and child. That’s irresponsible. It’s unpatriotic.

http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-called-bush-unpatriotic-for-debt-before-outspending-bush-half-the-time

Guiliani:

“I do not believe, and I know this is a horrible thing to say, but I do not believe that the president loves America,”

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/02/rudy-giuliani-president-obama-doesnt-love-america-115309.html

[Publicus]

Doubt the president's loyalty to what? Good grief.

Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds to rational, middle of the road voters?

You mean like when Obama questioned Bush's patriotism in 2008 and then got elected anway. Maybe you need to pay more attention to the rest of the thread.

While I give you credit for engaging in an epic feat of spin, your political acumen leaves quite a bit to be desired. Everyone reading this thread knows (primarily because of the youtube videos) that what candidate Obama said is that adding trillions to the debt was unpatriotic because of the affect it would have on future generations. A poor choice of words perhaps, but it does not come close to questioning President Bush's loyalty. What Giuliani said is about President Obama not loving America is jaw-droppingly outrageous. That is abundantly clear to everyone who isn't a raging hyperpartisan who feasts on that sort of bile.

What is "jaw-dropping outrageous" is Obama getting elected as president in the first place. Good on Giuliani for saying the truth about this guy.

Jaw dropping outrageous is that conservatives refuse in the absolute the accept the general elections of 2008 and 2012 yet expect the entire country to accept the mid-term election results of 2014.

This cherry picking is the conservatives glass jaw going in to the 2016 general election and it's their own doing entirely and completely.

Yes, I do hope Giuliani is the keynote speaker at the Republican national convention (in Cleveland Ohio) next year which is shaping up as another 1992 for the conservatives.

[sirineou]

Not to change the subject,

on a serious note

but has anyone noticed that Giuliani is beginning to look more and more like Colonel Klink

[sirineou]

HE is the one who said it is "unpatriotic". Time to start splitting hairs again.

If Bush had not but the country in a ditch, Obama might not have to spend all that money pulling it out,

or do you think he should have left it in the ditch?

PS: what is this fascination you have with hair?

Edited February 22, 2015 by sirineou

[Ulysses G.]

The hair splitting begins again.

Edited February 22, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[sirineou]

The hair splitting begins again.

I can afford to split hair, I have a head full of it, not to mention nose ears and back

Giuliani........... not so mach

[chuckd]

He wasn't brought up the way you were brought up and I was brought up through love of this country," said Giuliani,

I would like someone to explain how being "brought up through love of this country" involves getting several Vietnam War era student deferments, requesting an occupational deferment, and when that was rejected, appealing the rejection, and getting a Federal judge to petition the draft board. And when all those deferments finally expired in 1970, he got a high number and didn't enlist.

And it's seems that Giuliani's father and none of his five (5!) uncles served in World War II.

http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/30661/

That's some way to demonstrate "love of this country".

"And it's seems that Giuliani's father and none of his five (5!) uncles served in World War II."

Until that sentence, I thought you were talking about Bill Clinton.

[klikster]

Back in the heyday of USENET, when arguments got heated and reason failed -- the guy who was losing the argument often trotted out the "Nazi/Hitler Comparison". That invoked Godwin's Law which resulted in an automatic, YOU LOSE!

It seems that TVF has a parallel. So I propose that anyone who tries to win a point/argument using a FOX News crutch should suffer the same automatic indignity. YOU LOSE!

[Publicus]

He wasn't brought up the way you were brought up and I was brought up through love of this country," said Giuliani,

I would like someone to explain how being "brought up through love of this country" involves getting several Vietnam War era student deferments, requesting an occupational deferment, and when that was rejected, appealing the rejection, and getting a Federal judge to petition the draft board. And when all those deferments finally expired in 1970, he got a high number and didn't enlist.

And it's seems that Giuliani's father and none of his five (5!) uncles served in World War II.

http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/30661/

That's some way to demonstrate "love of this country".

"And it's seems that Giuliani's father and none of his five (5!) uncles served in World War II."

Until that sentence, I thought you were talking about Bill Clinton.

When did Bill Clinton say an American president is unpatriotic....

[Publicus]

The hair splitting begins again.

I can afford to split hair, I have a head full of it, not to mention nose ears and back

Giuliani........... not so mach

Go easy on him a bit cause Rudy and the birther Donald Trump have a lot in common

[chuckd]

You are out of touch at to what is going on in America. You did take notice of the mid term elections where the Democrats LOST control of the Senate, the number of Democrats seats in the U,S. were reduced by Republican replacements, U.S. State Legislatures have turned Republican along with the Governor's seat ... state governments are now a super majority of Republican control ... Elections have consequences ... Now that a respected Republican leader has said it ... dozens more will say it in a few short days and weeks. Why? Because it is the Truth. obama has no allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, to traditional America, he openly shows his allegiance and favoritism to Islam... I could write a list ten pages long... All this plus obama is a Narcissistic pathological liar, who lies about lying, who lies even when the truth would serve him better. Sure signs of the depth and pathology of his mental state.

You did take notice of the mid term elections

The mid-term election of 2014 is the most recent election the US has had, yes...yes indeed, and the conservatives who accuse Prez Obama of "no allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, to traditional America" love to cite this election and in fact eat, sleep and live by this most recent election. American political conservatives cite the recent mid-terms to verify among themselves that they are right.

However, from January 20th 2009 thru 2012 the same political group refused to accept the result of the 2008 general election.

The same political group have further refused from January 20th 2013 to accept the results of the 2012 general election.

To be respected at all, the conservatives of US politics and society need to be consistent and accept the results of all elections and every election.

Democracy does have minimum standards and norms and they need to be honored and respected. Otherwise the system does not work and cannot succeed. The vast majority of Americans want our democracy to be viable and to succeed.

It is called being civil

Edited by Publicus for spacing.

What are you going on about?

"To be respected at all, the conservatives of US politics and society need to be consistent and accept the results of all elections and every election."

Talk about not accepting elections, see the following quote:

"Eight years later in 2000 the only way the same political party and the same family was able to get back into the White House was to hang a bunch of ballot chads in Florida.'

Following that little exchange you close out with an appeal for civility thusly...

"Democracy does have minimum standards and norms and they need to be honored and respected. Otherwise the system does not work and cannot succeed. The vast majority of Americans want our democracy to be viable and to succeed.

It is called being civil"

Permit me to throw some quotes, taken from this thread alone, into the civility arena.

1. "Giuliani needs to tend to his own false and cynical self-promotion which also involves trying to assail the character and integrity of Pres Obama."

2. "Giuliani is a propagandist not a messenger, and Giuliani is a fraud extraordinaire...a cheap political hack."

3. "There's no valid reason for the extent of the extremism against him which originates from one quarter and that is the tea party extreme intemperate lunatic far right."

4. "The R party is a bankrupt asylum that has been taken over by the inmates. The lunatics are running the asylum."

5. "Any time a partisan political hack comes out from under his rock to spew venom he's going to expose himself to an equal and opposite reaction so that's what Giuliani is and that is what Giuliani has done."

I'm guessing we can expect some more civility aimed at this post now?