NYC, Orthodox Jews reach deal on circumcision suction ritual

[webfact]

NYC, Orthodox Jews reach deal on circumcision suction ritual
VERENA DOBNIK, Associated Press

NEW YORK (AP) — The city said Tuesday it has reached a tentative agreement with members of the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community over a tradition known as oral suction circumcision.

Health officials have linked 17 cases of infant herpes since 2000 to the ancient ritual of sucking blood from the wounds on the infants' penises.

On Tuesday, Mayor Bill de Blasio's administration said mohels, as the circumcisers are called in Yiddish, should no longer be required to obtain signed consent forms before the rites.

Administration officials said they will ask the Board of Health to vote to rescind the requirement while working with a coalition of rabbinical leaders and medical experts to educate members of the ultra-Orthodox community about the possible dangers of the practice, known as metzitzah b'peh in Hebrew. A vote is expected in June.

If an infant is found to have herpes after a circumcision, officials will ask a rabbinical coalition to identify the mohel who performed it so his DNA can be tested. If he's found to have infected the infant, he'll be banned from performing the ritual.

Oral suction circumcisions first came under scrutiny in 2012 during Mayor Michael Bloomberg's administration, which asked parents or guardians to sign consent forms indicating they understood the medical risks.

But the city's mohels, believed to perform more than 3,000 rites annually, say they apply strict medical procedures, including testing for herpes, sterilizing their hands and rinsing with mouthwash before the ceremony.

Rabbi A. Romi Cohn, who has performed 35,000 circumcisions, said he believes babies could have contracted the herpes virus from sources other than mohels.

Officials said Tuesday that DNA testing by health officials likely would prove or disprove whether there's a match between an infected infant and a mohel. If not and a baby still tests positive, health officials will try to seek the source of the herpes, which often results in skin blisters.

Officials said the new agreement fulfills the mayor's commitment to find a more effective policy that protects children and religious rights.

Details of the agreement haven't been finalized, but officials concede it's impossible to enforce the proposed measures in a community that practices its religious freedom in private.

Mohels have produced only one signed consent form in recent years, and rabbis urged their faithful not to comply.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-02-25

[noitom]

Why in the world would some news like this be news in Thailand? You would think that Thais would have more noteworthy news about their own affairs in Thailand.

[Scott]

Why in the world would some news like this be news in Thailand? You would think that Thais would have more noteworthy news about their own affairs in Thailand.

It is the World News Section. Thai news is in the Thai news section.

[Costas2008]

I'm not the right person to express my opinion on this matter as I'm not Jewish.

But I do believe that certain religions should stop their old rituals.

As a Greek Orthodox, I was glad to see many church rituals from the past have been abolished in todays church.

Like the submerging of a child under water when it is baptised and others.

Religion should not stay rigid through time but evolve and adjust as the world evolves and adjusts.

Extreme practices should no more exist and the same applies for extreme believes.

We can see what extreme can do in the Moslem faith and what has done to all religions in the past and still going on.

I hope they reconsider their practices.

[Prbkk]

gross..

[hansgruber]

No matter the religion. All the sexual weirdos hide behind the robes to cure their perverted urges. Disgusting ritual.

[Seastallion]

What I don't understand is why the Mayor and health authorities aren't straight out banning the practice. It has led to the deaths and brain damage of babies. One recent report I just listened to says one baby contracted herpes and HIV. (https:) //www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE0deNN54wk.

The authorities are afraid of the Orthodox lobby. To address the problem, they backtracked on parental consent, but accepted that the Jewish community will not close ranks and will inform them of who the rabbi is who next infects a baby. And the only consequence will be the mohel will stop practicing the oral suction.

"Keep doing it, but every time another baby dies, we'll ban the mohel from doing it again.....then another baby dies, and another mohel moved to an inactive post, so to speak"

(If the parents and congregation don't close ranks). Shut the gate after the horse has bolted, but in this case, it's another baby dying.

Several things are terribly wrong here because it involves the lives and health of babies.

If this was an ancient ritual that was performed in the Catholic church or Islam, do you think it would be allowed to continue in the West? I seriously doubt it.

Boo to the gutless mayor.

[Bogan Koori]

This is double standards if I have ever seen it. If catholic priests or muslims were sucking on thousands of babies penises they would be locked up. Why are rabbis protected species? This practice is abhorrent.

[up-country_sinclair]

This vile and disgusting act should be outlawed immediately, and the perpetrators charged with sexual assaults on children.

[siampolee]

Seastallion post # 7

What I don't understand is why the Mayor and health authorities aren't straight out banning the practice. It has led to the deaths and brain damage of babies. One recent report I just listened to says one baby contracted herpes and HIV. (https:) //www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE0deNN54wk.

The authorities are afraid of the Orthodox lobby. To address the problem, they backtracked on parental consent, but accepted that the Jewish community will not close ranks and will inform them of who the rabbi is who next infects a baby. And the only consequence will be the mohel will stop practicing the oral suction.

"Keep doing it, but every time another baby dies, we'll ban the mohel from doing it again.....then another baby dies, and another mohel moved to an inactive post, so to speak"

(If the parents and congregation don't close ranks). Shut the gate after the horse has bolted, but in this case, it's another baby dying.

Several things are terribly wrong here because it involves the lives and health of babies.

If this was an ancient ritual that was performed in the Catholic church or Islam, do you think it would be allowed to continue in the West? I seriously doubt it.

Boo to the gutless mayor.

All about votes and making sure you and your clique have got your hands in the pork barrels or perhaps to be P.C. I should perhaps say Salt Beef Barrels.

[Bogan Koori]

I wonder what screening process for pedophiles entails? Some sort of questionnaire? Have you got any experience in this field?

[sungod]

This is 2015 right?

[tartempion]

Circumcision?

Luckily I have not been mutilated by religious nutters.

It is also a useless practice.

[Pomthai]

The whole practice is sick.

In fact "religion" is responsible for more pain, suffering and horror in the world than anything else. It'd be a better planet for all of us without religion period.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies along with an inappropriate video have been removed.

References to sexual abuse posts have also been removed. This practice is a religious practice, it is not necessarily a sexual practice.

Please try to keep the discussion civil.

[FritsSikkink]

Sucking a baby's dick is a disgusting practice.

[Steely Dan]

I see some of our esteemed members (555) are intent on making a mountain out of a Mohel hill.

[Jingthing]

There is nothing sexual about this practice. I do think it should be illegal as well. Not because it's a sexual practice, which it isn't, but because of health concerns. Folks, don't imagine the oral suction practice is widely done among Jews. It is not. Only certain very orthodox types do it, a minority. But I would agree it shouldn't be done at all and Blasio should have gone further.

http://heebmagazine.com/54227/54227

I wish I could say that the long-marginalized practice of sucking the blood off a newly circumcised infant’s penis was strictly the purview of the imaginary monsters in this video, but – alas – it’s actually still done by real-life villains with little to no regard for the law, to say nothing of public safety.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Jingthing

[tartempion]

I see some of our esteemed members (555) are intent on making a mountain out of a Mohel hill.

That rabi Cohn performed 35.000 circumcisions, if that is not a mountain of penis skins what is it then?

[Jingthing]

The origin of this eccentric oral suction practice was ancient and at the time reflected the best medical knowledge of the time as far as benefiting the baby getting the circumcision. They were wrong but the intentions were good. Now there is no logical reason to continue the practice because science has advanced. Fundamentalists of all type of religions show resistance to scientific advancement. This case is no different.

[hansgruber]

The origin of this eccentric oral suction practice was ancient and at the time reflected the best medical knowledge of the time as far as benefiting the baby getting the circumcision. They were wrong but the intentions were good. Now there is no logical reason to continue the practice because science has advanced. Fundamentalists of all type of religions show resistance to scientific advancement. This case is no different.

Yet NYC has made a deal with them so they can continue their dick sucking practice. Why is that? Should be outlawed and no comprises made.

[Jingthing]

The origin of this eccentric oral suction practice was ancient and at the time reflected the best medical knowledge of the time as far as benefiting the baby getting the circumcision. They were wrong but the intentions were good. Now there is no logical reason to continue the practice because science has advanced. Fundamentalists of all type of religions show resistance to scientific advancement. This case is no different.

Yet NYC has made a deal with them so they can continue their dick sucking practice. Why is that? Should be outlawed and no comprises made.

I agree it should be fully prohibited. But your description of the practice is just silly. That's how you describe a sex act. They are not having sex acts. I am not saying some mohels aren't pedophiles, like any population surely some are, but what they are doing in these religious rituals is not an expression of pedophilia.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Jingthing

[Seastallion]

The origin of this eccentric oral suction practice was ancient and at the time reflected the best medical knowledge of the time as far as benefiting the baby getting the circumcision. They were wrong but the intentions were good. Now there is no logical reason to continue the practice because science has advanced. Fundamentalists of all type of religions show resistance to scientific advancement. This case is no different.

Yet NYC has made a deal with them so they can continue their dick sucking practice. Why is that? Should be outlawed and no comprises made.

I agree it should be fully prohibited. But your description of the practice is just silly. That's how you describe a sex act. They are not having sex acts. I am not saying some mohels aren't pedophiles, like any population surely some are, but what they are doing in these religious rituals is not an expression of pedophilia.

I'm not so sure that the practice is all that "eccentric". It seems to happen a lot just in NYC. One Orthodox Jew even proclaimed that if the oral suction method was not used, the parents could not be Orthodox...ie, he was claiming that all true Orthodox Jews are/should be doing it.

The video clip that was deleted showed it happening.....the mohel certainly looked like he relished his task, and as you say, there are bound to be peadophile mohels.

Best just to prohibit it...but how can a civic body go against Jewish Orthodoxy?

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

Ban all religion, the world would be better off!!

[Jingthing]

Ban all religion, the world would be better off!!

Like the Soviet Union?

Edited February 25, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

A core value of American culture is religious freedom. However, the USA has a secular government (happily). This is just another case of balancing religious freedom with life in a modern secular society. I guess we'll see how this turns out. If there are no more cases of suspected mohel to baby disease transmission, then this ruling will probably stand. If not, the issue will come up again in the legal system. Was politics a factor in this probably too liberal compromise? Sure, of course. If Blasio had gone harsh on the Orthodox Jews then they would have mobilized against him. There was little politically to gain by banning this practice entirely as only one demographic, Orthodox Jews, really cares much about this issue.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Jingthing

[Seastallion]

A core value of American culture is religious freedom. However, the USA has a secular government (happily). This is just another case of balancing religious freedom with life in a modern secular society. I guess we'll see how this turns out. If there are no more cases of suspected mohel to baby disease transmission, then this ruling will probably stand. If not, the issue will come up again in the legal system. Was politics a factor in this probably too liberal compromise? Sure, of course. If Blasio had gone harsh on the Orthodox Jews then they would have mobilized against him. There was little politically to gain by banning this practice entirely as only one demographic, Orthodox Jews, really cares much about this issue.

I am essentially in agreeance with you, however where we part ways is your blase attitude towards waiting for another Jewish baby to die before something is done.

[Jingthing]

Keeping it real, if the practice was made illegal, some of the Orthodox mohels would still do it anyway. They are fundamentalists. They don't care about the law of the land compared to the law of the way they read Torah.

Like some people in some countries want to make all circumcisions illegal even for Muslims and Jews. That would not stop Muslims and Jews from doing circumcisions ... it would just force it underground and make it more unsafe, like banning abortions.

Also Jews don't have a Pope. Rather there are different sects (called movements). So if there was a Jewish Pope for all Jews, he could say, just stop it everybody, God says so, but with Jews it doesn't work that way.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Jingthing

[tolsti]

I think the mohel are scared of losing their tips!

[Jingthing]

What would Jews do without mohel and foreskin jokes?