English teachers in Thai govt schools face test

[Jonmarleesco]

The obvious solution is to have the teachers assessed, and standard improved, by NATIVE English linguists; but that isn't going to happen. So I suppose it will have to rely on the Thais' own English expertise, and methodology.

[thaivisa57]

They work hard, and are willing teachers, but I never hired one as it was against the private school's policy.

And I agree with another teacher who also read another post where a non-native teacher wrote that "it is ok for non-natives to teach English". But you read that post and see how many spelling and grammitical mistakes he made, while claiming that it's ok for them to teach English. Maybe one day a native English teacher will head an English department and run it in a way that actually helps students.

If you want to know how educated and deserving a native applicant really is, ask him/her to write a 100 word paragraph on any topic of their choice on the spot. From their composition skills you will know if they are deserving to teach. Check for everything, like spelling, syntax, etc.

[ebonykap]

I am a NES.

I don't have a broad accent.

I have an excellent understanding of the English language (psychological testing - 97%).

I have created and delivered countless training courses to various sized groups during my 30 years in management.

I love to help people develop and better themselves.

I don't drink or do drugs.

I have an Associate Diploma in Marketing.

I intend to live in Thailand indefinitely.

I DON'T HAVE A DEGREE.

Disregarding the above point, why am I not allowed to teach English?

[JulesMad]

In 2002 I stayed in Korat for about a month, This Dutch guy and myself were offered jobs teaching English. I told this school that I am not a teacher, his reply was that is not important. The thing that is important is " To be white and can speak some English" The Dutch guy could only speak a little English.

The point I am trying to make is the schools don't care about the children's education they only care about MAKING MONEY

To me this is a very sad situation.

I'm not saying that the Filipinas are not good teachers or the Dutch or German but I do believe that only Native English teachers should be teaching English. I just hope for the Children sake they can fix this problem.

Non native speakers are prefectly abled to teach English. I had a Dutch English teacher in school, I am sure an Englishman could not tell he was not British, just a perfect Accent.

I disagree with you.

I agree 100% with Mr Somtam!!! Non native speakers are often much better understandable and have often less accent than a lot of native English speakers, as they normally are taught the queens english. Brits from certain places are completely un-understandable (i.e. New Castle, Liverpool, etc etc); Way too much accents!

Of course, only the Brits think they speak perfect English

[JustAnotherFarang]

They work hard, and are willing teachers, but I never hired one as it was against the private school's policy.

And I agree with another teacher who also read another post where a non-native teacher wrote that "it is ok for non-natives to teach English". But you read that post and see how many spelling and grammitical mistakes he made, while claiming that it's ok for them to teach English. Maybe one day a native English teacher will head an English department and run it in a way that actually helps students.

If you want to know how educated and deserving a native applicant really is, ask him/her to write a 100 word paragraph on any topic of their choice on the spot. From their composition skills you will know if they are deserving to teach. Check for everything, like spelling, syntax, etc.

Well after checking your composition I am afraid you have failed on spelling and incorrect syntax too. I can see 3 mistakes ;-) (improper usage of the comma with "and" in a short sentence, grammatical not grammitical and incorrect tense of the word "while"). But aside from nitpicking your post (which is merely in jest as this is not a test) I think that one of the real causes of concern in the teaching in Thai schools is the attitude that students are merely cows which must be milked for all they are worth before moving on to pastures new.

I have been teaching here for 15 years and it astounds me that when a parent realises that their child is falling behind in a subject and approaches the teacher, they will often be told that they need to attend after school classes to catch up. Of course these classes come at a "small" price and merely allow the teacher to give the student the answers to their homework. When it's time to test, the same teacher will once again tell the students the answers to ensure they are capable of passing. The students then move onto the new pasture with the inability to do any analytical thinking by themselves and will resort to copying............. or paying another teacher/farmer to help them with the answer sheet.

It must also be said that it is not always the teachers fault. I have tried on many occasions to tell a student why they have made a mistake and what they should do to rectify it. Often it will lead to an understanding of their mistakes and an improvement in their work but alas, this is also where their precious sensitivities can take over. The notion of "saving face" and not looking stupid in front of others is a real barrier that can sometimes be nigh on impossible to overcome. With boys they will become sullen and disruptive. With girls they will become emotional and accuse you of bullying them. Compound this with parents who have the "mai bpen rai" attitude and the notion that they just want their kids to "enjoy" and pass the test and we begin to see the many deficient facets of Thai society today.

Hope my 100+ word composition passes muster. If it doesn't I will sulk in the corner and tell everyone you are picking on me !!!

JAF

Edited March 2, 2015 by JustAnotherFarang

[thaivisa57]

Actually, it didn't. Glad you caught mine, all three intentional.

[Godders]

My daughter speaks better English than any of her schoolteachers and she's seven. Need one say more?

[Rhys]

Somebody.. is going to make out like a bandido here..

[FangFerang]

Again with the pervasive Education corruption this government keeps promoting, and putting its nods and rubber stamps to...

Why not also test the private schools, eh...? Cat got your tongue?

No, the private schools are this government's most adored and evil touch-me-not corrupt pet...really...to subsidize private schools so that the parents pay tuition and the schools get 35k per head from their taxes too is laughable in the face of the utter non-progress in Thai education. Private schools were the ones who lobbied for the no-fail policy...they kept losing students.

Private schools get more public tax money than the public schools. A LOT MORE MONEY. Shame! Boo! Stopping corruption my ass.

Just continuing corruption for the junta's bestest butt buddies, an episode resembling lottery reform and the recent bailing out of dodgy bank notes.

Now, where is that red menace when we need distracting again?...................

[aarontendo]

In 2002 I stayed in Korat for about a month, This Dutch guy and myself were offered jobs teaching English. I told this school that I am not a teacher, his reply was that is not important. The thing that is important is " To be white and can speak some English" The Dutch guy could only speak a little English.

The point I am trying to make is the schools don't care about the children's education they only care about MAKING MONEY

To me this is a very sad situation.

I'm not saying that the Filipinas are not good teachers or the Dutch or German but I do believe that only Native English teachers should be teaching English. I just hope for the Children sake they can fix this problem.

I have met and worked with numerous native speaker teachers in Thailand, and I can say that I would never allow most of those "native speakers" to get any close to any kids let alone teach them. Travellers, junkies, fugitives and all sort of scumbags account for a large number of native speakers in Thailand. I know there are some good teachers as well. I would say that native speakers should teach listening and speaking. Unfortunately, most of them have no idea how to teach academic writing, IELTS, or grammar. Why would you let them teach these subjects?

The best teachers I have met were non-native speakers, and some of them had real great knowledge of English language.

Many of the native speakers I've worked with have been top quality, and the ones I meet now are advancing their own qualifications and working hard at professional development. Having said that, many of them are long-term expats here. I'm certainly not discounting your experience but just to offer a counter-point on that issue. Having said that, yes I've had more than once where I've raised an eyebrow to teachers I met.

[jdinasia]

So, apparently Thai government schools will shortly be without any Thai English teachers, right?

You know and I know that there is no way they will pass if this is conducted ethically and morally

to the standards in which the test was meant.

Any chance that foreign English teachers will be getting work permits, like those Vietnamese slaves

they're recruiting? To me, that is a sign of being serious, to at least let the kids have good teachers while

these idiots squabble in their conference rooms up on high.

But good teachers demand good results. Failure to get good results means no students. No students

means... no.... income........... Ahhhhhhhhhhh! So that is what this is all about; Rig another auspicious

example of a Western approved idea and impress everyone with the fabricated results!

"If you see a snake, just kill it - don't appoint a committee on snakes."

-Ross Perot

Take a look back to June 8th 2010 and see how Thai teachers did when they were tested on the subject they taught.

I am glad my colleagues are all far better than average (without exception)

[jdinasia]

Again with the pervasive Education corruption this government keeps promoting, and putting its nods and rubber stamps to...

Why not also test the private schools, eh...? Cat got your tongue?

No, the private schools are this government's most adored and evil touch-me-not corrupt pet...really...to subsidize private schools so that the parents pay tuition and the schools get 35k per head from their taxes too is laughable in the face of the utter non-progress in Thai education. Private schools were the ones who lobbied for the no-fail policy...they kept losing students.

Private schools get more public tax money than the public schools. A LOT MORE MONEY. Shame! Boo! Stopping corruption my ass.

Just continuing corruption for the junta's bestest butt buddies, an episode resembling lottery reform and the recent bailing out of dodgy bank notes.

Now, where is that red menace when we need distracting again?...................

I am unaware of private schools getting public funds. Can you provide some proof of this claim?

[jdinasia]

In 2002 I stayed in Korat for about a month, This Dutch guy and myself were offered jobs teaching English. I told this school that I am not a teacher, his reply was that is not important. The thing that is important is " To be white and can speak some English" The Dutch guy could only speak a little English.

The point I am trying to make is the schools don't care about the children's education they only care about MAKING MONEY

To me this is a very sad situation.

I'm not saying that the Filipinas are not good teachers or the Dutch or German but I do believe that only Native English teachers should be teaching English. I just hope for the Children sake they can fix this problem.

I have met and worked with numerous native speaker teachers in Thailand, and I can say that I would never allow most of those "native speakers" to get any close to any kids let alone teach them. Travellers, junkies, fugitives and all sort of scumbags account for a large number of native speakers in Thailand. I know there are some good teachers as well. I would say that native speakers should teach listening and speaking. Unfortunately, most of them have no idea how to teach academic writing, IELTS, or grammar. Why would you let them teach these subjects?

The best teachers I have met were non-native speakers, and some of them had real great knowledge of English language.

Sounds like you may need help both in English and in the basic knowledge of what goes on in Thai schools.

The Thai teachers are supposed to teach the basic rules of English and grammar early on in Thai language. From there, if the student has reached a basic level, english teacher can help.

How do you think any native speaker can teach rules of grammar and sentance structure if speaking in English and the children cant understand a word?

All the teaching certificates or courses in world cant help here, since the Thai teachers have failed to get the students up to the most basic level of proficiency whereby a native speaker can take over.

why? As stated by others here..the thai english teachers rarely ever speak more than a few words of english in a lesson and they cetainly do not teach coherant sentance structure as they themselves cannot even do it

Not accurate. I have learned 3 languages without input from any other language.

[aarontendo]

Again with the pervasive Education corruption this government keeps promoting, and putting its nods and rubber stamps to...

Why not also test the private schools, eh...? Cat got your tongue?

No, the private schools are this government's most adored and evil touch-me-not corrupt pet...really...to subsidize private schools so that the parents pay tuition and the schools get 35k per head from their taxes too is laughable in the face of the utter non-progress in Thai education. Private schools were the ones who lobbied for the no-fail policy...they kept losing students.

Private schools get more public tax money than the public schools. A LOT MORE MONEY. Shame! Boo! Stopping corruption my ass.

Just continuing corruption for the junta's bestest butt buddies, an episode resembling lottery reform and the recent bailing out of dodgy bank notes.

Now, where is that red menace when we need distracting again?...................

I am unaware of private schools getting public funds. Can you provide some proof of this claim?

UNESCO report on private secondary school education in Thailand.

http://www.unesco.org/iiep/PDF/pubs/Thailand.pdf

"In summary, private schools at the basic education level depend upon the following sources for their income:

1) Government subsidies: The government provides monthly subsidies on a cost-per-student

basis. This is a major source of income for most schools."

[PungShoeWrote]

If the parents of these gov.schools had any clue how GD bad they're children's education is they would still do nothing. Thainess is a nice way of saying " lazy bunch of chicken shits'.

90% of the old worthless Tw@ts I had to work with could only speak English when reading out of a book.

Lieland is the joke of ASEAN!!!!

[diehard60]

50% of the Thai teachers in rural areas could never pass a real English test. And if the test was verbal (speaking) test it would be more like 90% could not pass.

[jdinasia]

Again with the pervasive Education corruption this government keeps promoting, and putting its nods and rubber stamps to...

Why not also test the private schools, eh...? Cat got your tongue?

No, the private schools are this government's most adored and evil touch-me-not corrupt pet...really...to subsidize private schools so that the parents pay tuition and the schools get 35k per head from their taxes too is laughable in the face of the utter non-progress in Thai education. Private schools were the ones who lobbied for the no-fail policy...they kept losing students.

Private schools get more public tax money than the public schools. A LOT MORE MONEY. Shame! Boo! Stopping corruption my ass.

Just continuing corruption for the junta's bestest butt buddies, an episode resembling lottery reform and the recent bailing out of dodgy bank notes.

Now, where is that red menace when we need distracting again?...................

I am unaware of private schools getting public funds. Can you provide some proof of this claim?

UNESCO report on private secondary school education in Thailand.

http://www.unesco.org/iiep/PDF/pubs/Thailand.pdf

"In summary, private schools at the basic education level depend upon the following sources for their income:

1) Government subsidies: The government provides monthly subsidies on a cost-per-student

basis. This is a major source of income for most schools."

Thanks.

Overseen by a government agency and that agency does evaluation every 5 years. The schools receiving subsidies have to teach the Thai curriculum. There's a net savings to the government.

[penwithcris]

Good idea , lots of Philippine English teachers about, some are pretty good but some have a proper Philippine accent and I don't want my kids sounding like Carman Miranda when they speak English

[garrya]

50% of the Thai teachers in rural areas could never pass a real English test. And if the test was verbal (speaking) test it would be more like 90% could not pass.

I would say 90% of them would fail any sort of listening comprehension and speaking tests.

[penwithcris]

Can't see much wrong with children speaking English with an American 'twang' as most Philippine speakers do.

The important thing is that children can communicate well in English, even though they may adopt the accents of their tutors.

The teacher's assessment levels as described are just officialdom at it's worst. Schools should require all foreign teachers teaching English to have passed TEFL exams or their equivalent.

Regrettably indiginous Thai teachers,with their own flawed English, fail to give young Thai schoolchildren the subject grounding that they deserve, and it effects their whole educational future

[Traveller45]

My eldest step daughter is 12 Y.O. From all the schools in the Korat region she has just got third place, so she is very smart (Takes after her Mother)

English, she is totally hopeless, she will not speak it because she is afraid of making a mistake.

What to do for the best result for her? Perhaps some of the teachers on TV can give me some advice.

She wants to be a Doctor, yes another Thai Doctor that can not speak English.

This is a phenomenon that is not limited to Thailand. Have you ever seen a French guy trying to learn German? This desire to turn out a perfect sentence when in fact the basics of the language are not there. The guy who taught me Arabic (such as it is) wasn't even a teacher, he was a lawyer by trade. He knew how to go about it. In his Arabic-only classes one of the first things he taught us was to say "What's this?" in Arabic (Ma Hadha). The purpose of course was to enable us to point at a thing and ask our interlocutor. These are the "small words" like How, When, where to, how do I get, etc. Those are the basics of a language. Learn that, and above all, USE it. Make mistakes. Speak pidgin. All this is better than to sit there and torture yourself in silence because you are not perfect.

[Fullstop]

Why would you want someone who was dragged off a bar stool with their fake degrees, speaking English with a heavy regional accent, unable to spell correctly, unable to teach grammar but comes from the UK or US

Well I wouldn't want that one would I? Can I have one of those other 6 dozen "normal" foreign teachers standing over there instead?

[willyumiii]

I am a NES.

I don't have a broad accent.

I have an excellent understanding of the English language (psychological testing - 97%).

I have created and delivered countless training courses to various sized groups during my 30 years in management.

I love to help people develop and better themselves.

I don't drink or do drugs.

I have an Associate Diploma in Marketing.

I intend to live in Thailand indefinitely.

I DON'T HAVE A DEGREE.

Disregarding the above point, why am I not allowed to teach English?

You are allowed to teach English in Thailand.

If you are as qualified as you claim to be, it should not be a problem.

Get out there and get to know the schools, the English Teachers and the Directors of the schools.

Prove your knowledge and your worth.

Maybe volunteer to assist an English teacher or two.

If you are half as good as you claim, you will be hired and paid.

It worked for me

I have established some great contacts and a pretty good reputation.

When my previous school lost funding for foreign teachers, the Director contacted three other directors ( I had already met ) and all three offered me positions teaching English at their schools.

I had my choice.

If you are good and easy to work with, the school can make everything work if they really want you.

No degree?

No Problem.

Work permits?

No problems.

If you start with a defeated attitude, you are already defeated.

I hope you are as good as you say...

Thai schools need and want people like you.

and I wish you good luck.....Choke dee!

[SoilSpoil]

Native speaking English speakers should take a proficiency test as well. Both speaking and grammar.

Ever heard some one from Manchester of Dallas talk or teach English to a group of Thais?

Edited March 2, 2015 by SoilSpoil

[kaorop]

Again with the pervasive Education corruption this government keeps promoting, and putting its nods and rubber stamps to...

Why not also test the private schools, eh...? Cat got your tongue?

No, the private schools are this government's most adored and evil touch-me-not corrupt pet...really...to subsidize private schools so that the parents pay tuition and the schools get 35k per head from their taxes too is laughable in the face of the utter non-progress in Thai education. Private schools were the ones who lobbied for the no-fail policy...they kept losing students.

Private schools get more public tax money than the public schools. A LOT MORE MONEY. Shame! Boo! Stopping corruption my ass.

Just continuing corruption for the junta's bestest butt buddies, an episode resembling lottery reform and the recent bailing out of dodgy bank notes.

Now, where is that red menace when we need distracting again?...................

I am unaware of private schools getting public funds. Can you provide some proof of this claim?

UNESCO report on private secondary school education in Thailand.

http://www.unesco.org/iiep/PDF/pubs/Thailand.pdf

"In summary, private schools at the basic education level depend upon the following sources for their income:

1) Government subsidies: The government provides monthly subsidies on a cost-per-student

basis. This is a major source of income for most schools."

Thanks.

Overseen by a government agency and that agency does evaluation every 5 years. The schools receiving subsidies have to teach the Thai curriculum. There's a net savings to the government.

"net saving" ....yeah right...lol

you should go back to defending the koh tao scum, thats more your forte.

i certainly wouldn't want you anywhere near my children as a teacher.

[kaorop]

I am a NES.

I don't have a broad accent.

I have an excellent understanding of the English language (psychological testing - 97%).

I have created and delivered countless training courses to various sized groups during my 30 years in management.

I love to help people develop and better themselves.

I don't drink or do drugs.

I have an Associate Diploma in Marketing.

I intend to live in Thailand indefinitely.

I DON'T HAVE A DEGREE.

Disregarding the above point, why am I not allowed to teach English?

You are allowed to teach English in Thailand.

If you are as qualified as you claim to be, it should not be a problem.

Get out there and get to know the schools, the English Teachers and the Directors of the schools.

Prove your knowledge and your worth.

Maybe volunteer to assist an English teacher or two.

If you are half as good as you claim, you will be hired and paid.

It worked for me

I have established some great contacts and a pretty good reputation.

When my previous school lost funding for foreign teachers, the Director contacted three other directors ( I had already met ) and all three offered me positions teaching English at their schools.

I had my choice.

If you are good and easy to work with, the school can make everything work if they really want you.

No degree?

No Problem.

Work permits?

No problems.

If you start with a defeated attitude, you are already defeated.

I hope you are as good as you say...

Thai schools need and want people like you.

and I wish you good luck.....Choke dee!

i like the attitude of course this country needs good people as teachers

though you are forgetting

b visa

teacher cert waiver

and that,

all those hoops

magically re-appear every year or so

all for the same wage as some 15 years ago

"they" dont care if you dont care, just that you turn up, look presentable and dont make waves

sad state of affairs

[jdinasia]

Native speaking English speakers should take a proficiency test as well. Both speaking and grammar.

Ever heard some one from Manchester of Dallas talk or teach English to a group of Thais?

I was raised in a town between Dallas and Fort Worth, and I would bet that my speech is less accented than yours

BTW I think you meant "someone" not some one

[razer]

An important step forward.

[SOTIRIOS]

...now just to wait for the leaked copy.....

...a test should be standard...a so-called 'degree' of questionable importance.......

...but if there is cheating...what good will it do...

....'teachers' do a demo class....but have never been tested....

...I have seen so many 'teachers'...miraculously appear....friends of other 'teachers'....

...and they miraculously have the degree required for the vacant post...i.e. science.....

..behind the scenes, they haven't got a clue....

..smile...put on a demo class....get the support of your friends already working there...presto...instant job......

[wwest5829]

My Thai wife (so native Thai speaker) was helping some elementary students with their English a couple of days ago. I pointed out some errors. My wife speaks English well. She said she saw the errors but the wording came directly from the student's English text. Therein is a large problem as to why Thais will have difficulty with eith teacher's tests or ASEAN.