Capital punishment concerns raised over Thai backpackers' murder case

[IslandLover]

rockingrobin, on 24 Mar 2015 - 06:54, said:rockingrobin, on 24 Mar 2015 - 06:54, said:

jdinasia, on 24 Mar 2015 - 03:40, said:jdinasia, on 24 Mar 2015 - 03:40, said:

Stolen clothes..... As pointed out it is not likely. It probably won't play well in court.

"defendants claim that their clothing were stolen "

"prosecution suggests that defendants disposed of bloody evidence "

Which scenario would you tend to believe?

It is my understanding that the RTP are claiming that there was no blood on the clothes because they had been washed

As for defense not disclosing its information, this would be normal and especially so in Thailand where the prosecution doesnt reveal the evidence in there possesion

It would appear that some posters like the judiicial system of discovery but appear not to like the defence to have the same privilege

Correction the translator made the claim the clothes had been washed

It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get heavy bloodstains out of fabric by washing alone. I know from personal experience. You need special chemicals. And after a crime like that which happened on 15 September 2014, there would have been a lot of blood.

Edited March 25, 2015 by IslandLover

[thailandchilli]

rockingrobin, on 24 Mar 2015 - 06:54, said:rockingrobin, on 24 Mar 2015 - 06:54, said:

jdinasia, on 24 Mar 2015 - 03:40, said:jdinasia, on 24 Mar 2015 - 03:40, said:

Stolen clothes..... As pointed out it is not likely. It probably won't play well in court.

"defendants claim that their clothing were stolen "

"prosecution suggests that defendants disposed of bloody evidence "

Which scenario would you tend to believe?

It is my understanding that the RTP are claiming that there was no blood on the clothes because they had been washed

As for defense not disclosing its information, this would be normal and especially so in Thailand where the prosecution doesnt reveal the evidence in there possesion

It would appear that some posters like the judiicial system of discovery but appear not to like the defence to have the same privilege

Correction the translator made the claim the clothes had been washed

It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get heavy bloodstains out of fabric by washing alone. I know from personal experience. You need special chemicals. And after a crime like that which happened on 15 September 2014, there would have been a lot of blood.

This clothing business is very confusing especially when we add in that Muang Muang was also apparently on cctv wearing one of the B2's t shirts. I wonder if this part of the case has been shared with the defense team yet? If there was no blood on the clothes then this would add weight to their claim that they were not involved in the actual murders. Although I do feel its almost impossible to figure how they could be so close to the crime scene and not know anything as they are currently saying. I'm still of the opinion there's a lot more too this and others were there.

[berybert]

rockingrobin, on 24 Mar 2015 - 06:54, said:rockingrobin, on 24 Mar 2015 - 06:54, said:

jdinasia, on 24 Mar 2015 - 03:40, said:jdinasia, on 24 Mar 2015 - 03:40, said:

Stolen clothes..... As pointed out it is not likely. It probably won't play well in court.

"defendants claim that their clothing were stolen "

"prosecution suggests that defendants disposed of bloody evidence "

Which scenario would you tend to believe?

It is my understanding that the RTP are claiming that there was no blood on the clothes because they had been washed

As for defense not disclosing its information, this would be normal and especially so in Thailand where the prosecution doesnt reveal the evidence in there possesion

It would appear that some posters like the judiicial system of discovery but appear not to like the defence to have the same privilege

Correction the translator made the claim the clothes had been washed

It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get heavy bloodstains out of fabric by washing alone. I know from personal experience. You need special chemicals. And after a crime like that which happened on 15 September 2014, there would have been a lot of blood.

This clothing business is very confusing especially when we add in that Muang Muang was also apparently on cctv wearing one of the B2's t shirts. I wonder if this part of the case has been shared with the defense team yet? If there was no blood on the clothes then this would add weight to their claim that they were not involved in the actual murders. Although I do feel its almost impossible to figure how they could be so close to the crime scene and not know anything as they are currently saying. I'm still of the opinion there's a lot more too this and others were there.

If you were at a crime scene 3 hours before a crime took place why would you know anything about it ?

[AleG]

from AleG: Oh, furniture, on a video, how... meaningless.

The CCTV footage you insist was faked was reviewed by the press, are they all also in the payroll?

Yes, of course, you think everyone is in the payroll, what was I thinking?

First off, as I've mentioned several times in prior posts, if many people believe something, that doesn't mean they're all part of a conspiracy. It only takes one or a few people (usually elders or trusted or in uniform) to get misinformation started. Perhaps the alibi video is legit, but it's not the responsibility of the press corps to verify it. Their job is to report the news. It's up to RTP investigators to verify whether evidence is sound or not. In many ways, RTP have not been doing their jobs, and it shows bias against the the B2, while shielding the H's people. I suspect we'll hear more about the alibi video in the trial, unless the judges deem it's immaterial because only the B2 are on trial, no one else. There are some interested parties who obviously don't want the alibi CCTV scrutinized.

LOL

With people like you so loudly proclaiming the power of social media you would think that one news outlet would follow up on the conspiracy theories you guys are presenting. While investigative reporting is a bit week in Thailand the UK press certainly should follow up on real stories..... But apparently not in the world of the conspiracy theorists. You suggest it is not the press' job and the job belongs to the RTP. The RTP has cleared the people you are obsessed with. They did their job.

The RTP apparently cleared Nomsod, on the strength of two still shot 'grabs' from two questionable CCTV videos. Even if the CCTV was valid (which many observers doubt), The possibility of a desperate person with lots of money getting from the island to Bkk in four to five hours was (apparently) not considered valid in the equation. In other words, even if the CCTV wasn't bogus, it still doesn't preclude the possibility of Nomsod being on the island at the time of the crime, to any objective/reasonable person.

The issue of whether the furniture was in the alibi CCTV is one which could be easily proven or disproven - simply by looking at CCTV at same location, just prior to the alibi footage. Newspaper reporters aren't supposed to arrange for that. That's the job of investigators, if they were sincerely aiming to investigate the crime, and objectively seeking who did it. There are dozens of indications which show the RTP aren't doing that.

btw, has Mon been officially cleared of all wrongdoing? If so, let's see the link.

You just disqualified yourself as an "objective/reasonable person", it's not possible to go from Koh Tao to Bangkok in 4 or 5 hours, you would know if you'd had ever done it. By that and by claiming again that the only alibi for Nomsod is "two questionable CCTV videos", this is the fourth time I provide you with the same link that proves you wrong:

"Mr. Warot also attended classes during that period of time, Mr. Attakorn said.

"There are university documents that confirmed his class attendance and examination," the lawyer told reporters."

Will you also ask this post to be removed on the grounds that it presents facts you don't want to be seen?

[AleG]

Jimmy - as I cannot post from Phuketwan or Thai language sources, you are free to disbelieve.

The point, as brought up by the conspiracy theorists is moot, since Panya cleared the people who some people are obsessed with blaming on September 25th

Edit to add link requested by boomerangutang

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe

The promotion was part of this reshuffle:

BANGKOK, 12 September 2014 (NNT) – Approval has been granted by the Royal Thai Police Board for the appointment of a number of police officials to their new positions.

[stephenterry]

rockingrobin, on 24 Mar 2015 - 06:54, said:rockingrobin, on 24 Mar 2015 - 06:54, said:

jdinasia, on 24 Mar 2015 - 03:40, said:jdinasia, on 24 Mar 2015 - 03:40, said:

Stolen clothes..... As pointed out it is not likely. It probably won't play well in court.

"defendants claim that their clothing were stolen "

"prosecution suggests that defendants disposed of bloody evidence "

Which scenario would you tend to believe?

It is my understanding that the RTP are claiming that there was no blood on the clothes because they had been washed

As for defense not disclosing its information, this would be normal and especially so in Thailand where the prosecution doesnt reveal the evidence in there possesion

It would appear that some posters like the judiicial system of discovery but appear not to like the defence to have the same privilege

Correction the translator made the claim the clothes had been washed

It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get heavy bloodstains out of fabric by washing alone. I know from personal experience. You need special chemicals. And after a crime like that which happened on 15 September 2014, there would have been a lot of blood.

This clothing business is very confusing especially when we add in that Muang Muang was also apparently on cctv wearing one of the B2's t shirts. I wonder if this part of the case has been shared with the defense team yet? If there was no blood on the clothes then this would add weight to their claim that they were not involved in the actual murders. Although I do feel its almost impossible to figure how they could be so close to the crime scene and not know anything as they are currently saying. I'm still of the opinion there's a lot more too this and others were there.

I agree it is impossible for anyone on here to detail the B2's movements on that night because there's no recorded timeline or CCTV released of them past midnight. I don't have any knowledge of the logistics of the island and the relative routes and distances between the crime scene beach, AC bar, and the suspects lodgings, so I can't offer an opinion on their likely movements.

However, we do know they were a hundred meters away from the crime scene beach drinking and playing guitar at 1am according to Mau. There is then a 4 hour gap until 5am when Mau found them asleep in their lodgings. In the meantime the guitar had moved from the beach, supposedly to the AC bar. At what time? The B2 stated they had gone for a swim near the AC bar, and their clothes and guitar had been stolen. At what time? And what happened next?

So no-one on here can say with any certainty where, in the intervening 4 hours between 1 and 5, the B2 were. The RTP will say there is a DNA match to them from the sperm found in Hannah's body, which places them at the crime scene at the time of the murders c.4am. As they have pleaded not guilty to the charges, the defence would have to challenge that, plus challenge the 60+ prosecution witnesses who have miraculously materialised at this late stage. Who are these witnesses, and what did they witness?

Perversely, I think had the prosecution listed only a handful of witnesses, their case would have a ring of credibility about it.

[mojorison]

jdinasia, are you still laughing out loud? I'm not.

I am laughing, but not at the crimes, just at the lengths people go to to blame anyone but the defendants.

BTW, of course it is the job of the press to do investigation. You should look up "the role of a free press "

I am with jdinasia on this one. Just fry them and bury them (or what ever you do with burmese). I am soooo over this. At the end of the day, who gives a toss anyway? Really.

[boomerangutang]

jdinasia, are you still laughing out loud? I'm not.

I am laughing, but not at the crimes, just at the lengths people go to to blame anyone but the defendants.

BTW, of course it is the job of the press to do investigation. You should look up "the role of a free press "

'role of a free press' interesting you use that phrase. Thailand is currently a country under martial law. The self-appointed military PM has come out publicly with comments on the KT case. All of which, not surprisingly, are fully supportive of everything the RTP has done and will do.

The press corps report the news. They get news from authorities. If authorities feed them skewed or incorrect news (and no outsiders know it's incorrect) then that's unfortunate, but it's not the job of news reporters to delve in to the machinations of where those factoids came from. If Obama's press secretary claims, "Today, US troops invaded Patagonia. The reporters wouldn't be required to visit Patagonia before reporting the story."

This also relates to the wrong-headed assertion (by some posters) that a false story being believed by many, would have to entail a conspiracy of hundreds of people. Wrong. Only one or a very few people at the top of the pyramid would need to get a false story started. Everyone else would have to go along with it because A. that's the only news feed they have, and B. they can't readily pry into the inner working of officialdom to find the truth. That's why we have a word like 'whistleblower' in our vocabulary. Sometimes top authorities are caught telling lies, but it's quite rare, because authorities do everything they can to keep secrets under wraps.

In general, much of what authorities declare, particularly at press conferences, is what reporters for news outlets report. If the authorities have an agenda, and declare skewed claims, ....then that's what the reporters have. Granted, some reporters dig deeper in to the story (like Watergate), but they're very much the exception. ....particularly in a country like Thailand (especially now, that it's under martial law), where everyone is brought up to accept what authorities say at face value.

[boomerangutang]

jdinasia, are you still laughing out loud? I'm not.

I am laughing, but not at the crimes, just at the lengths people go to to blame anyone but the defendants.

BTW, of course it is the job of the press to do investigation. You should look up "the role of a free press "

I am with jdinasia on this one. Just fry them and bury them (or what ever you do with burmese). I am soooo over this. At the end of the day, who gives a toss anyway? Really.

I'm trying to find a modicum of reason in any of mojorison's statements. Cant.

[jdinasia]

Jimmy - as I cannot post from Phuketwan or Thai language sources, you are free to disbelieve.

The point, as brought up by the conspiracy theorists is moot, since Panya cleared the people who some people are obsessed with blaming on September 25th

Edit to add link requested by boomerangutang

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe

The promotion was part of this reshuffle:

BANGKOK, 12 September 2014 (NNT) – Approval has been granted by the Royal Thai Police Board for the appointment of a number of police officials to their new positions.

I am well aware of that. It was reported in the Thai language press. However, since the people who posters here wish to blame were cleared on the 25th of September, it kills the argument that the investigation changed direction after Panya was promoted.

[JLCrab]

jdinasia, are you still laughing out loud? I'm not.

I am laughing, but not at the crimes, just at the lengths people go to to blame anyone but the defendants.

BTW, of course it is the job of the press to do investigation. You should look up "the role of a free press "

'role of a free press' interesting you use that phrase. Thailand is currently a country under martial law. The self-appointed military PM has come out publicly with comments on the KT case. All of which, not surprisingly, are fully supportive of everything the RTP has done and will do.

The press corps report the news. They get news from authorities. If authorities feed them skewed or incorrect news (and no outsiders know it's incorrect) then that's unfortunate, but it's not the job of news reporters to delve in to the machinations of where those factoids came from. If Obama's press secretary claims, "Today, US troops invaded Patagonia. The reporters wouldn't be required to visit Patagonia before reporting the story."

This also relates to the wrong-headed assertion (by some posters) that a false story being believed by many, would have to entail a conspiracy of hundreds of people. Wrong. Only one or a very few people at the top of the pyramid would need to get a false story started. Everyone else would have to go along with it because A. that's the only news feed they have, and B. they can't readily pry into the inner working of officialdom to find the truth. That's why we have a word like 'whistleblower' in our vocabulary. Sometimes top authorities are caught telling lies, but it's quite rare, because authorities do everything they can to keep secrets under wraps.

In general, much of what authorities declare, particularly at press conferences, is what reporters for news outlets report. If the authorities have an agenda, and declare skewed claims, ....then that's what the reporters have. Granted, some reporters dig deeper in to the story (like Watergate), but they're very much the exception. ....particularly in a country like Thailand (especially now, that it's under martial law), where everyone is brought up to accept what authorities say at face value.

That's OK -- I realize that you are just a guy who thinks he's at the top spreading a false story about those who are wrong-headed about just how a false story gets spread around but maybe that wrong headedness is not so wrong-headed when those who only know of the false story situation get put on the witness stand during a trial and have to answer under able cross examination just how it is they have come to know the information about which they are testifying other than the guy at the top told that is about what and how they should testify.

[jdinasia]

jdinasia, are you still laughing out loud? I'm not.

I am laughing, but not at the crimes, just at the lengths people go to to blame anyone but the defendants.

BTW, of course it is the job of the press to do investigation. You should look up "the role of a free press "

'role of a free press' interesting you use that phrase. Thailand is currently a country under martial law. The self-appointed military PM has come out publicly with comments on the KT case. All of which, not surprisingly, are fully supportive of everything the RTP has done and will do.

The press corps report the news. They get news from authorities. If authorities feed them skewed or incorrect news (and no outsiders know it's incorrect) then that's unfortunate, but it's not the job of news reporters to delve in to the machinations of where those factoids came from. If Obama's press secretary claims, "Today, US troops invaded Patagonia. The reporters wouldn't be required to visit Patagonia before reporting the story."

This also relates to the wrong-headed assertion (by some posters) that a false story being believed by many, would have to entail a conspiracy of hundreds of people. Wrong. Only one or a very few people at the top of the pyramid would need to get a false story started. Everyone else would have to go along with it because A. that's the only news feed they have, and B. they can't readily pry into the inner working of officialdom to find the truth. That's why we have a word like 'whistleblower' in our vocabulary. Sometimes top authorities are caught telling lies, but it's quite rare, because authorities do everything they can to keep secrets under wraps.

In general, much of what authorities declare, particularly at press conferences, is what reporters for news outlets report. If the authorities have an agenda, and declare skewed claims, ....then that's what the reporters have. Granted, some reporters dig deeper in to the story (like Watergate), but they're very much the exception. ....particularly in a country like Thailand (especially now, that it's under martial law), where everyone is brought up to accept what authorities say at face value.

The free press includes the UK press, you know, those people obstinantely examining the case and who publish outside of the kingdom. Wait.... They haven't said anything about it other than people on social media had issues....

[berybert]

jdinasia, are you still laughing out loud? I'm not.

I am laughing, but not at the crimes, just at the lengths people go to to blame anyone but the defendants.

BTW, of course it is the job of the press to do investigation. You should look up "the role of a free press "

'role of a free press' interesting you use that phrase. Thailand is currently a country under martial law. The self-appointed military PM has come out publicly with comments on the KT case. All of which, not surprisingly, are fully supportive of everything the RTP has done and will do.

The press corps report the news. They get news from authorities. If authorities feed them skewed or incorrect news (and no outsiders know it's incorrect) then that's unfortunate, but it's not the job of news reporters to delve in to the machinations of where those factoids came from. If Obama's press secretary claims, "Today, US troops invaded Patagonia. The reporters wouldn't be required to visit Patagonia before reporting the story."

This also relates to the wrong-headed assertion (by some posters) that a false story being believed by many, would have to entail a conspiracy of hundreds of people. Wrong. Only one or a very few people at the top of the pyramid would need to get a false story started. Everyone else would have to go along with it because A. that's the only news feed they have, and B. they can't readily pry into the inner working of officialdom to find the truth. That's why we have a word like 'whistleblower' in our vocabulary. Sometimes top authorities are caught telling lies, but it's quite rare, because authorities do everything they can to keep secrets under wraps.

In general, much of what authorities declare, particularly at press conferences, is what reporters for news outlets report. If the authorities have an agenda, and declare skewed claims, ....then that's what the reporters have. Granted, some reporters dig deeper in to the story (like Watergate), but they're very much the exception. ....particularly in a country like Thailand (especially now, that it's under martial law), where everyone is brought up to accept what authorities say at face value.

The free press includes the UK press, you know, those people obstinantely examining the case and who publish outside of the kingdom. Wait.... They haven't said anything about it other than people on social media had issues....

They have had plenty to say about it. They have even gone back over old cases like people falling 50 foot off cliffs and not having a scratch on them.

Strange thing about that case is the same people who believe the Burmese killed David and Hannah also believe it possible to fall 50 foot and not have a scratch.

There are not many in England believe the official story that has come out of Thailand.

So again you speak untruths. Something you do a lot.

As it happens I think you have made me realize one of the things I dislike most about Thailand. Its the lying, little lies, big lies. Even if the person knows you are lying and you know that person knows, the lie will still come out.

Some call it child like wonder. Other don't.

Fact is there will be little more about the case until it hits the courts.

[JLCrab]

UK pathologist's opinion of above case in this article:

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Nick-Pearson-inquest-Family-Derbyshire-man-dead/story-25741734-detail/story.html

[mojorison]

jdinasia, are you still laughing out loud? I'm not.

I am laughing, but not at the crimes, just at the lengths people go to to blame anyone but the defendants.

BTW, of course it is the job of the press to do investigation. You should look up "the role of a free press "

I am with jdinasia on this one. Just fry them and bury them (or what ever you do with burmese). I am soooo over this. At the end of the day, who gives a toss anyway? Really.

I'm trying to find a modicum of reason in any of mojorison's statements. Cant.

It is sarcasm. It is not humourous. It is thoughtless and meaningless. It has not a whiff of humanity. It scorns, belittles and ridicules human life. It is my horrible cynicism. The venom and revolt I feel about this affair cannot be understated. To take me at my word is a mistake. I am like a fleck of dust. These boys, who are undoubtedly not guilty of the crime, are in a world of grief. And as a local, I feel utterly ashamed and distraught that I have to deal with these heinous local villains on a daily basis. I hate them all.

How's that for you? Clearer?

[jdinasia]

UK pathologist's opinion of above case in this article:

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Nick-Pearson-inquest-Family-Derbyshire-man-dead/story-25741734-detail/story.html

Unrelated case, but a bad knee and 4x the legal blood alcohol level....

Re Bert..

The UK media has reported on what other people have said including on social media. AFAIK there has been 0 investigative reporting on the conspiracy theories presented on social media.

[mojorison]

UK pathologist's opinion of above case in this article:

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Nick-Pearson-inquest-Family-Derbyshire-man-dead/story-25741734-detail/story.html

Unrelated case, but a bad knee and 4x the legal blood alcohol level....

Re Bert..

The UK media has reported on what other people have said including on social media. AFAIK there has been 0 investigative reporting on the conspiracy theories presented on social media.

Stop with this long winded conspiracy theory nonsense. You clearly do not understand what a 'conspiracy theory" is. You have been banging on about it for months. Man on the moon, JFK, aliens landing on centre court at Wimbledon... these are conspiracies. You use the words to undermine legitimate concerns of justice. So for the love of god please stop.

[berybert]

UK pathologist's opinion of above case in this article:

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Nick-Pearson-inquest-Family-Derbyshire-man-dead/story-25741734-detail/story.html

Unrelated case, but a bad knee and 4x the legal blood alcohol level....

Re Bert..

The UK media has reported on what other people have said including on social media. AFAIK there has been 0 investigative reporting on the conspiracy theories presented on social media.

You keep harping on about social media. I seem to recall plenty of main stream Thai T.V. news shows comment on the case. And many of them asking the same questions we have asked and not getting any answers either.

[boomerangutang]

Jimmy - as I cannot post from Phuketwan or Thai language sources, you are free to disbelieve.

The point, as brought up by the conspiracy theorists is moot, since Panya cleared the people who some people are obsessed with blaming on September 25th

Edit to add link requested by boomerangutang

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe

The promotion was part of this reshuffle:

BANGKOK, 12 September 2014 (NNT) – Approval has been granted by the Royal Thai Police Board for the appointment of a number of police officials to their new positions.

I am well aware of that. It was reported in the Thai language press. However, since the people who posters here wish to blame were cleared on the 25th of September, it kills the argument that the investigation changed direction after Panya was promoted.

I agree, Panya was heading the investigation when that announcement (by a lower ranking officer) appeared to indicate Nomsod was no longer a suspect. The more important issue is that Nomsod was excused on such flimsy data: two still 'grabs' from video. and it happened so quickly after cops caught up with Nomsod (with lawyer tight by his side, who happens to be a childhood friend of Nomsod's mom). All appearances indicate the officer(s) who made that declaration (of non-involvement) were very quick to excuse they guy, based on flimsy data.

By that time in the investigation, Panya may have been just a figurehead of authority, with the strings actually being manipulated by Bkk. That's usually how bureaucratic things happen in Thailand. When I'm in regions of Thailand away from Bangkok, and have a tough question for a bureaucrat, invariably, I hear, "we will have to contact our office in Bangkok, and we'll get back to you with the answer." Thai bureaucracy revolves around Bangkok, and that's how Bkk heavies want it.

Still haven't heard whether there was ever an official announcement that Mon is no longer a suspect. Link?

That's OK -- I realize that you are just a guy who thinks he's at the top spreading a false story about those who are wrong-headed about just how a false story gets spread around but maybe that wrong headedness is [/size]not so wrong-headed when those who only know of the false story situation get put on the witness stand during a trial and have to answer under able cross examination just how it is they have come to know the information about which they are testifying other than the guy at the top told that is about what and how they should testify.

Wow, that's a long sentence, JL, no pun intended. I think I agree (if I understand it) - I too look forward to hearing what sorts of testimony come forth during the trial. Am a bit apprehensive that we (everyone outside the courtroom) will likely have to rely on (all-too-brief?) summations from memory or one or two judges - instead of references to audio or video.

[jdinasia]

Boomerangutang,

Again you are given the link. Again you attempt to mitigate what was said. This time you say a junior officer made the statement.

The link yet again

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe

"Eighth Region Command commissioner Pol Lt Gen Panya Mamen said Thursday investigators have now excluded the son of the headman Woraphan Toovichien, 49, from the suspect list as he was not on the island when the two Britons were brutally murdered. "

Edited March 25, 2015 by jdinasia

[Jai Dee]

Topic closed pending moderation.

[Jai Dee]

Topic re-opened for further discussion.

A couple of posts have been removed, and members are reminded of the following from the Forum Rules:

2) You will not use ThaiVisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, inaccurate, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law.

You also agree not to post negative comments criticizing the legal proceedings or judgments of any Thai court of law.

[JLCrab]

Things may not be business-as-usual in Thailand during an extended trial with one of these parked outside the courthouse:

[jdinasia]

UK pathologist's opinion of above case in this article:

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Nick-Pearson-inquest-Family-Derbyshire-man-dead/story-25741734-detail/story.html

Unrelated case, but a bad knee and 4x the legal blood alcohol level....

Re Bert..

The UK media has reported on what other people have said including on social media. AFAIK there has been 0 investigative reporting on the conspiracy theories presented on social media.

You keep harping on about social media. I seem to recall plenty of main stream Thai T.V. news shows comment on the case. And many of them asking the same questions we have asked and not getting any answers either.

Strangely, nothing about the claims that someone was not in BKK. A seemingly easy thing to prove.... But nothing. Furniture? Nothing. Classmates? Nothing.

All of those things were just the conspiracy theories posted on csila....

[jdinasia]

Note - cleared is cleared and the claims by people here built around a conspiracy theory cooked up on csila just carry no weight.

For all the conspiracy theories, not one news outlet has come forward with evidence to support them. Although investigation reporting is a bit weak in Thailand, the UK news outlets here should be interested enough to have followed up.

So I guess to keep the conspiracy theories alive you have to add

The RTP

The leaders of Thailand

The leaders of the UK

The UK police

Every person on the island

The Thai media

The UK media

The HRC commissioner

The lawyer

All the friends of David and Hannah

The families of David and Hannah

The lab techs

The list goes on and on

Oops I left out

The FCO

60 witnesses for the prosecution

Those of us that think that the case should go to trial

The students in BKK

The teachers in BKK

Planes trains and automobiles (and any people on them)

Perhaps others can add to the list of people who would have to be in on the conspiracy.

[CRUNCHER]

rockingrobin, on 24 Mar 2015 - 06:54, said:rockingrobin, on 24 Mar 2015 - 06:54, said:

jdinasia, on 24 Mar 2015 - 03:40, said:jdinasia, on 24 Mar 2015 - 03:40, said:

Stolen clothes..... As pointed out it is not likely. It probably won't play well in court.

"defendants claim that their clothing were stolen "

"prosecution suggests that defendants disposed of bloody evidence "

Which scenario would you tend to believe?

It is my understanding that the RTP are claiming that there was no blood on the clothes because they had been washed

As for defense not disclosing its information, this would be normal and especially so in Thailand where the prosecution doesnt reveal the evidence in there possesion

It would appear that some posters like the judiicial system of discovery but appear not to like the defence to have the same privilege

Correction the translator made the claim the clothes had been washed

It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get heavy bloodstains out of fabric by washing alone. I know from personal experience. You need special chemicals. And after a crime like that which happened on 15 September 2014, there would have been a lot of blood.

Examination of clothing, where available, is vital in a case like this. I would be very surprised if the forensic chemist in charge did not ask for all available clothing. What you can see with the naked eye is not all there is to it. Detailed forensic examination is required. This is done in a laboratory.

A lot will depend on things like the amount of blood, the type of fabric, how well the clothing was washed. I dealt with a case once where blood in readable quantities was found in the seams of a garment after washing.

Another aspect relating to clothing that has not, as far as I am aware, got even a single mention is “contact evidence”. Basically when two people come into contact with each other, fibers may be transferred from one person’s clothing to the others. This can also survive wash depending on fabric, how many fibers, how thoroughly washed etc.

For the nitty gritty on these things you would need to consult a forensic chemist.

One thing I do know the examination and testing could take weeks to complete depending on circumstances; certainly after the police stopped releasing details to the public.

Whether the prosecution has such evidence I do not know and nor does anyone else on this thread. We will have to wait for the trial.

.

[boomerangutang]

You keep harping on about social media. I seem to recall plenty of main stream Thai T.V. news shows comment on the case. And many of them asking the same questions we have asked and not getting any answers either.

Strangely, nothing about the claims that someone was not in BKK. A seemingly easy thing to prove.... But nothing. Furniture? Nothing. Classmates? Nothing.

All of those things were just the conspiracy theories posted on csila....

With such high stakes (a young man and/or his uncle facing possible execution if found guilty), it would not be surprising if rich people connected to the prime suspects (at the time) would do anything they can to shield their family members. The first thing that would go out the window is TRUTH. Immediately after, the family goes into emergency mode. In Thailand (and many other countries), a lot can be done with lots of money paid to the right people. Similarly, a lot of leverage can be exerted with threats of harm or death. I'm not saying those things happened for a fact, it's just that looking reasonably at dozens of prior Thai cases with similar circumstances (the son of an important and rich Thai person facing dire troubles), it's par for the course. I'm predicating what I mention with the fact that Mon and Nomsod were prime suspects in the early stages of the investigation, ....then miraculously, in a Bangkok minute, they're of no interest to investigators. Poof - magic! Almost like they ceased to exist, and were completely cleared, no involvement on any level - all of a sudden.

[fritzzz25]

jdinasia, are you still laughing out loud? I'm not.

I am laughing, but not at the crimes, just at the lengths people go to to blame anyone but the defendants.

BTW, of course it is the job of the press to do investigation. You should look up "the role of a free press "

Oh, you mean this free press?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/811798-pm-prayut-warns-media-to-toe-the-line-or-face-consequences/

[JLCrab]

You keep harping on about social media. I seem to recall plenty of main stream Thai T.V. news shows comment on the case. And many of them asking the same questions we have asked and not getting any answers either.

Strangely, nothing about the claims that someone was not in BKK. A seemingly easy thing to prove.... But nothing. Furniture? Nothing. Classmates? Nothing.

All of those things were just the conspiracy theories posted on csila....

With such high stakes (a young man and/or his uncle facing possible execution if found guilty), it would not be surprising if rich people connected to the prime suspects (at the time) would do anything they can to shield their family members. The first thing that would go out the window is TRUTH. Immediately after, the family goes into emergency mode. In Thailand (and many other countries), a lot can be done with lots of money paid to the right people. Similarly, a lot of leverage can be exerted with threats of harm or death. I'm not saying those things happened for a fact, it's just that looking reasonably at dozens of prior Thai cases with similar circumstances (the son of an important and rich Thai person facing dire troubles), it's par for the course. I'm predicating what I mention with the fact that Mon and Nomsod were prime suspects in the early stages of the investigation, ....then miraculously, in a Bangkok minute, they're of no interest to investigators. Poof - magic! Almost like they ceased to exist, and were completely cleared, no involvement on any level - all of a sudden.

Then I would think that once -- poof! magic! -- such wealthy persons were cleared, if only temporarily, they would all of sudden find reason that they would be pursuing for an extended period of time the family business interests in Hong Kong or France or some other venue without an extradition treaty with Thailand in the event that this summer the entire case against the 2 Burmese scapegoats blows up in the orchestrating family's face.

[jdinasia]

You keep harping on about social media. I seem to recall plenty of main stream Thai T.V. news shows comment on the case. And many of them asking the same questions we have asked and not getting any answers either.

Strangely, nothing about the claims that someone was not in BKK. A seemingly easy thing to prove.... But nothing. Furniture? Nothing. Classmates? Nothing.

All of those things were just the conspiracy theories posted on csila....

With such high stakes (a young man and/or his uncle facing possible execution if found guilty), it would not be surprising if rich people connected to the prime suspects (at the time) would do anything they can to shield their family members. The first thing that would go out the window is TRUTH. Immediately after, the family goes into emergency mode. In Thailand (and many other countries), a lot can be done with lots of money paid to the right people. Similarly, a lot of leverage can be exerted with threats of harm or death. I'm not saying those things happened for a fact, it's just that looking reasonably at dozens of prior Thai cases with similar circumstances (the son of an important and rich Thai person facing dire troubles), it's par for the course. I'm predicating what I mention with the fact that Mon and Nomsod were prime suspects in the early stages of the investigation, ....then miraculously, in a Bangkok minute, they're of no interest to investigators. Poof - magic! Almost like they ceased to exist, and were completely cleared, no involvement on any level - all of a sudden.

Then I would think that once -- poof! magic! -- such wealthy persons were cleared, if only temporarily, they would all of sudden find reason that they would be pursuing for an extended period of time the family business interests in Hong Kong or France or some other venue without an extradition treaty with Thailand in the event that this summer the entire case against the 2 Burmese scapegoats blows up in the orchestrating family's face.

The fantasies of some people never end.

Miraculously, when suspects are no longer suspects.... They are not suspects.

Sean. -- not a suspect.

Ware--- not a suspect

Nomsod --- not a suspect

Mon --- not a suspect

The first Burmese guys -- not suspects.

Boomerangutang claimed first (and for a long time) that the direction of the investigation suddenly changed when Gen Panya was promoted. It was in the news a week before the promotion but...

Even today he was saying a junior officer made the statement that prior suspects had been excluded (and why) even though it was announced on the 25th of September. He was still asking about Mon when the same article from September 25th stated clearly that he was excluded and why.

It is simply defamation to keep going back to things like this, but hey.....

Note -- no mention of the long but not exhaustive list of people who would have to be in on a conspiracy theory like the one presented here : either directly or complicitly