Capital punishment concerns raised over Thai backpackers' murder case

[JLCrab]

Fact: Mr. Terry has said that (the late Ms. Witheridge's) murder "was one of revenge, not lust..." *

TTBOMK no photograph, video or eyewitness account from persons Thai, Burmese, or from the UK has ever placed everyone's favorite suspect at large in the vicinity let alone conversing or propositioning the late Ms. Witheridge.

* http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/804973-capital-punishment-concerns-raised-over-thai-backpackers-murder-case/page-19#entry9192703

[AleG]

Nom has proof that he was in Bangkok at the time of the crime. Well not at the time of the crime but there or there abouts.

Why has nobody come forward to say that Now wasn't at the uni at the time of the crime, well there or there abouts.

Nom has a guy who is paid lord knows how much to say he was at school( His solicitor). Now forget all that, how many of Noms class mates have said he was in school the day after the murder ?

I can not recall any of them saying that. Can you ?

AleG/jdinasia you defend Nom 24/7 whilst telling us you don't even know the guy. Why are you so passionate about him ?

Even if Nomsod was in Bangkok after 9 am on Monday, that doesn't preclude him from being at the island 4+ hours earlier. If a desperate person with money and connections wanted to get to Bangkok from the island as quick as possible, how long would it take? More than 4 to 5 hours in the early morning? Perhaps someone in that region could do that experiment. And even if it were proved that Nomsod was on the island at the time of the crime (by witnesses and/or DNA and/or CCTV...), RTP echoers would say that doesn't implicate him. Even if it were shown to the small % of those who doubt he's 'running man' that he was indeed running man, RTP echoers could still claim that doesn't implicate him - it only shows that he was jogging around in light colored shorts on that walkway near the crime scene. I admit, there needs to be firmer evidence for Nomsod to be nailed. Unfortunately, RTP, by all appearances (Since the 2nd week of the investigation), seem fixated on trying to shield Nomsod and Mon from any further scrutiny. Why would that be? Most of us don't need to stretch too far to find answers to 'why Nomsod and Mon were dropped so suddenly and thoroughly from being prime suspects.' The writing is on the wall, in large luminous font.

Last time I drove from Koh Tao to Bangkok it took about 9 hours including fast boat transfer and that was doing up to 140km/h where the road allowed; it may be possible to make it in 7 but the road is not in the best conditions, there are usually several police checkpoints along the way and in my case I didn't hit the early morning traffic jam that would be present on a Monday morning. You see, that's the difference between someone that knows stuff and someone that makes stuff up as he goes, the person who knows doesn't have to resort to theories.

By the way, according to your theories, he also got a haircut along the way.

Then of course there's the complete lack of any evidence that actually happened, but why let the lack of facts get on the way of a good story?

FACT: The father’s statement originally was that Nomsod had to hurry back to Uni in Bangkok for exams. A week later, when they were put under further scrutiny his statement changed to: ‘He hasn’t been home (to Koh Tao) for a few months, I haven’t seen him’. This was untrue however as he had been photographed on the island a month earlier.

FACT: On September 24th it was announced that Nomsod was a person of interest. A press conference was quickly launched at his embassy where his lawyer (a close family friend) brought out CCTV stills of Nomsod at his university residence. The timestamp was 09:16 sept 15th. Early flights from Koh Samui and Surat Thani would have given him enough time to get back to BKK and jump in a taxi. Logic dictates that if he had been at his residence the previous night there would also have been footage to prove that. Recently doubt has been cast on the authenticity of the time stamps, as furniture seen in the residence had been moved a few months before hand yet was back in it’s old position in these cctv captures.

"Early flights from Koh Samui and Surat Thani would have given him enough time to get back to BKK and jump in a taxi."

That is not a "FACT", it's unsupported speculation. What would make it a fact would be a passenger list with his name, CCTV of him at either airports, witnesses testimony placing him there, etc...

In any case, which one is it? He murdered the two Britons, jumped into a waiting boat that nobody saw (strangely, the idea of using the boat to dispose of the bodies at sea didn't occur to anyone), full throttle to Samui (boat and driver unknown), went to the airport and straight into a flight (at least half an hour before the gates closed) flew back to BKK, took a taxi back to his apartment (somewhere in between all that had time for a haircut and put on his university clothes), all this leaving absolutely no trace whatsoever, and then just walked casually in because he knew that there was this CCTV camera that would record his entry... or, they just faked the CCTV footage; and if they faked the CCTV footage why not fake it to be at, let's say, 4AM on the 15th of September?

It has to be one or the other.

It's all baloney, desperately looking for something that can be construed into a marginally possible scenario that falls apart as soon as the mere minimum of examination is applied, for example the fact that the CCTV footage of him at the lobby was not the only alibi presented.

Here's a screen capture from another CCTV camera:

"Logic dictates that if he had been at his residence the previous night there would also have been footage to prove that."

Well, proven, what now? Call it all fake with no evidence to substantiate the claim?

[stephenterry]

Fact: Mr. Terry has said that (the late Ms. Witheridge's) murder "was one of revenge, not lust..." *

TTBOMK no photograph, video or eyewitness account from persons Thai, Burmese, or from the UK has ever placed everyone's favorite suspect at large in the vicinity let alone conversing or propositioning the late Ms. Witheridge.

* http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/804973-capital-punishment-concerns-raised-over-thai-backpackers-murder-case/page-19#entry9192703

I agree.That doesn't mean he wasn't in the vicinity, as could be said of around fifty or more party people.

[JLCrab]

Fact: Mr. Terry has said that (the late Ms. Witheridge's) murder "was one of revenge, not lust..." *

TTBOMK no photograph, video or eyewitness account from persons Thai, Burmese, or from the UK has ever placed everyone's favorite suspect at large in the vicinity let alone conversing or propositioning the late Ms. Witheridge.

* http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/804973-capital-punishment-concerns-raised-over-thai-backpackers-murder-case/page-19#entry9192703

I agree.That doesn't mean he wasn't in the vicinity, as could be said of around fifty or more party people.

A genuine wallflower from all accounts.

[stephenterry]

FACT: The father’s statement originally was that Nomsod had to hurry back to Uni in Bangkok for exams. A week later, when they were put under further scrutiny his statement changed to: ‘He hasn’t been home (to Koh Tao) for a few months, I haven’t seen him’. This was untrue however as he had been photographed on the island a month earlier.

FACT: On September 24th it was announced that Nomsod was a person of interest. A press conference was quickly launched at his embassy where his lawyer (a close family friend) brought out CCTV stills of Nomsod at his university residence. The timestamp was 09:16 sept 15th. Early flights from Koh Samui and Surat Thani would have given him enough time to get back to BKK and jump in a taxi. Logic dictates that if he had been at his residence the previous night there would also have been footage to prove that. Recently doubt has been cast on the authenticity of the time stamps, as furniture seen in the residence had been moved a few months before hand yet was back in it’s old position in these cctv captures.

"Early flights from Koh Samui and Surat Thani would have given him enough time to get back to BKK and jump in a taxi."

That is not a "FACT", it's unsupported speculation. What would make it a fact would be a passenger list with his name, CCTV of him at either airports, witnesses testimony placing him there, etc...

In any case, which one is it? He murdered the two Britons, jumped into a waiting boat that nobody saw (strangely, the idea of using the boat to dispose of the bodies at sea didn't occur to anyone), full throttle to Samui (boat and driver unknown), went to the airport and straight into a flight (at least half an hour before the gates closed) flew back to BKK, took a taxi back to his apartment (somewhere in between all that had time for a haircut and put on his university clothes), all this leaving absolutely no trace whatsoever, and then just walked casually in because he knew that there was this CCTV camera that would record his entry... or, they just faked the CCTV footage; and if they faked the CCTV footage why not fake it to be at, let's say, 4AM on the 15th of September?

It has to be one or the other.

It's all baloney, desperately looking for something that can be construed into a marginally possible scenario that falls apart as soon as the mere minimum of examination is applied, for example the fact that the CCTV footage of him at the lobby was not the only alibi presented.

Here's a screen capture from another CCTV camera:

14120925241412092757l.jpg

"Logic dictates that if he had been at his residence the previous night there would also have been footage to prove that."

Well, proven, what now? Call it all fake with no evidence to substantiate the claim?

I haven't seen this CCTV still before, so cannot comment on whether it was independently verified or challenged. Nevertheless Nomsod could have made it a whole lot easier to prove his whereabouts in BKK without resorting to contestable photo stills. For example the other guy in the pix could confirm that this was factual, thus providing an alibi. People could confirm where he ate, hung out, or whatever. Did he use an ATM? Did he have a record of his flight to BKK? Was his phone record location verified?

Did that happen? Was it investigated by the RTP? Who knows...

Trouble is, to accept two photo stills as fact - one still of which has been contested as false, is just as speculative. So, I'll be brief - none of us on TVF know whether Nomsod is telling the truth or not.

[AleG]

Everyone is talking about nomsod on every page in this thread, If B2 are innocent I think the focus should be on other suspects , but to solve a case like this is difficult if nobody comes forward and talk. The killer could still be on the island or maybe he left early. He could be an immigrant or a Thai or just a visitor. All we have is DNA tests and CCTV images. Not enough to solve the crime if B2 didnt do it.

Nomsod, being the child of a rich Thai person, is the perfect scapegoat for all kinds of prejudices; the tales can be weaved out that that almost write themselves: mafias, police corruption, political meddling, etc, etc... Intrigue, murder, conspiracy, that stuff sells.

[Linky]

Everyone is talking about nomsod on every page in this thread, If B2 are innocent I think the focus should be on other suspects , but to solve a case like this is difficult if nobody comes forward and talk. The killer could still be on the island or maybe he left early. He could be an immigrant or a Thai or just a visitor. All we have is DNA tests and CCTV images. Not enough to solve the crime if B2 didnt do it.

Nomsod, being the child of a rich Thai person, is the perfect scapegoat for all kinds of prejudices; the tales can be weaved out that that almost write themselves: mafias, police corruption, political meddling, etc, etc... Intrigue, murder, conspiracy, that stuff sells.

None of that would preclude him from being guilty.

[berybert]

AleG Quote "In any case, which one is it? He murdered the two Britons, jumped into a waiting boat that nobody saw (strangely, the idea of using the boat to dispose of the bodies at sea didn't occur to anyone),"

Dispose of the bodies ? Wasn't the reason for leaving Hannah in the position she was found in more about making sure "No one messes with us"

[JLCrab]

Was the 'reason' for the specific body placement another one of Mr. Terry's FACTS?

[greenchair]

I know it's late in the day to be asking this.

I understand why mon was accused by police. Because shaun fingered him so naturally the police investigated him.

2 questions.

Why did they not investigate the cop as well.

How did nomsod name ever come into it.

What is the reason the police began mentioning him in Bkk since shaun had not said anything about him.

Be grateful for an answer.

[jdinasia]

Fact: Mr. Terry has said that (the late Ms. Witheridge's) murder "was one of revenge, not lust..." *

TTBOMK no photograph, video or eyewitness account from persons Thai, Burmese, or from the UK has ever placed everyone's favorite suspect at large in the vicinity let alone conversing or propositioning the late Ms. Witheridge.

* http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/804973-capital-punishment-concerns-raised-over-thai-backpackers-murder-case/page-19#entry9192703

I agree.That doesn't mean he wasn't in the vicinity, as could be said of around fifty or more party people.

A genuine wallflower from all accounts.

In a country that loves the internet - pictures - selfies ----

With tourists all around documenting their holidays ----

Nothing.

[catsanddogs]

Fact: Mr. Terry has said that (the late Ms. Witheridge's) murder "was one of revenge, not lust..." *

TTBOMK no photograph, video or eyewitness account from persons Thai, Burmese, or from the UK has ever placed everyone's favorite suspect at large in the vicinity let alone conversing or propositioning the late Ms. Witheridge.

* http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/804973-capital-punishment-concerns-raised-over-thai-backpackers-murder-case/page-19#entry9192703

I agree.That doesn't mean he wasn't in the vicinity, as could be said of around fifty or more party people.

A genuine wallflower from all accounts.

In a country that loves the internet - pictures - selfies ----

With tourists all around documenting their holidays ----

Nothing.

Exactly JD! Where is the CCTV and photographs of the Burmese suspects near the scene of the crime at the time of the crime? And while we're at it, let's be having a look at the CCTV of the alleged altercation at the bar and the running woman the RTP have. And all the other footage that would be on the cameras at the AC, In Touch and Choppers Bar. Oh and the full CCTV of running man with the big farang guy and Asian looking woman would be a bonus - so we can see how close they were in the three second gap. And some footage of the Ocean View apartments would be great too - do they have CCTV there do you know? Maybe if the RTP and the owners of the clubs and bars and hotels were to release their footage and pics then tourists and fearful inhabitants of Koh Tao might follow suit.

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed:

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

[greenchair]

I know it's late in the day to be asking this.

I understand why mon was accused by police. Because shaun fingered him so naturally the police investigated him.

2 questions.

Why did they not investigate the cop as well.

How did nomsod name ever come into it.

What is the reason the police began mentioning him in Bkk since shaun had not said anything about him.

Be grateful for an answer.

I must know.

What is the reason the police suspected nomsod at the beginning?

[Mooner]

Pertinent question!

[boomerangutang]

Nom has proof that he was in Bangkok at the time of the crime. Well not at the time of the crime but there or there abouts.

Why has nobody come forward to say that Now wasn't at the uni at the time of the crime, well there or there abouts.

Nom has a guy who is paid lord knows how much to say he was at school( His solicitor). Now forget all that, how many of Noms class mates have said he was in school the day after the murder ?

I can not recall any of them saying that. Can you ?

AleG/jdinasia you defend Nom 24/7 whilst telling us you don't even know the guy. Why are you so passionate about him ?

Even if Nomsod was in Bangkok after 9 am on Monday, that doesn't preclude him from being at the island 4+ hours earlier. If a desperate person with money and connections wanted to get to Bangkok from the island as quick as possible, how long would it take? More than 4 to 5 hours in the early morning? Perhaps someone in that region could do that experiment. And even if it were proved that Nomsod was on the island at the time of the crime (by witnesses and/or DNA and/or CCTV...), RTP echoers would say that doesn't implicate him. Even if it were shown to the small % of those who doubt he's 'running man' that he was indeed running man, RTP echoers could still claim that doesn't implicate him - it only shows that he was jogging around in light colored shorts on that walkway near the crime scene. I admit, there needs to be firmer evidence for Nomsod to be nailed. Unfortunately, RTP, by all appearances (Since the 2nd week of the investigation), seem fixated on trying to shield Nomsod and Mon from any further scrutiny. Why would that be? Most of us don't need to stretch too far to find answers to 'why Nomsod and Mon were dropped so suddenly and thoroughly from being prime suspects.' The writing is on the wall, in large luminous font.

Last time I drove from Koh Tao to Bangkok it took about 9 hours including fast boat transfer and that was doing up to 140km/h where the road allowed; it may be possible to make it in 7 but the road is not in the best conditions, there are usually several police checkpoints along the way and in my case I didn't hit the early morning traffic jam that would be present on a Monday morning. You see, that's the difference between someone that knows stuff and someone that makes stuff up as he goes, the person who knows doesn't have to resort to theories.

By the way, according to your theories, he also got a haircut along the way.

Then of course there's the complete lack of any evidence that actually happened, but why let the lack of facts get on the way of a good story?

I put my doubts in the form of questions. You offered an answer that may or may not be useful. But then you couldn't help but digress to rudeness as is your wont. you're the only person who mentioned; 'he got a haircut along the way'. What a silly attempt at diversion. Nomsod had a week to get a haircut, and get his sideburns shaped toward his ears - in order to try and distance himself from the incriminating CCTV. I still would like to see if there is someone who could make the trip from Ko Tao to Bangkok in a hurry, and see how long it takes. I don't believe the CCTV from the U dorm is when it's purported to be, and I don't think Nomsod was in class that morning. If I was heading the investigation, I would investigate such things, and a whole lot more. Such things are not being investigated, and the reasons (why there was zero investigation of Nomsod and his alibi after he was suddenly dropped as a prime suspect) are plain as day. So, if my hunch proves true, it wouldn't have mattered if Nomsod showed up in Bkk at noon or later. What matters is if there is proof that he was one of the perps of the crime. This summer could prove to be interesting, as people speak up at the trial. No one will be surprised if the judge puts a lid on any mention of evidence which could incriminate any of the H's people.

[boomerangutang]

I know it's late in the day to be asking this.

I understand why mon was accused by police. Because shaun fingered him so naturally the police investigated him.

2 questions.

Why did they not investigate the cop as well.

How did nomsod name ever come into it.

What is the reason the police began mentioning him in Bkk since shaun had not said anything about him.

Be grateful for an answer.

I must know.

What is the reason the police suspected nomsod at the beginning?

Nomsod and Mon were prime suspects in the early stages of the investigation because evidence pointed at them: CCTV at the island, mention of altercations at the bars, one of them was avoiding police requests to come out of hiding - and even when caught, he declined DNA testing.

[Mooner]

The journey back to bkk has been spoke about before. I remember having a debate with a well know poster about speedboat times.

With early morning flights back to bkk it is very easy to get back to bkk for the cctv footage.

Did it happen? I don't know. Is it possible? Yes!

[jdinasia]

Fact: Mr. Terry has said that (the late Ms. Witheridge's) murder "was one of revenge, not lust..." *

TTBOMK no photograph, video or eyewitness account from persons Thai, Burmese, or from the UK has ever placed everyone's favorite suspect at large in the vicinity let alone conversing or propositioning the late Ms. Witheridge.

* http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/804973-capital-punishment-concerns-raised-over-thai-backpackers-murder-case/page-19#entry9192703

I agree.That doesn't mean he wasn't in the vicinity, as could be said of around fifty or more party people.

A genuine wallflower from all accounts.

In a country that loves the internet - pictures - selfies ----

With tourists all around documenting their holidays ----

Nothing.

Exactly JD! Where is the CCTV and photographs of the Burmese suspects near the scene of the crime at the time of the crime? And while we're at it, let's be having a look at the CCTV of the alleged altercation at the bar and the running woman the RTP have. And all the other footage that would be on the cameras at the AC, In Touch and Choppers Bar. Oh and the full CCTV of running man with the big farang guy and Asian looking woman would be a bonus - so we can see how close they were in the three second gap. And some footage of the Ocean View apartments would be great too - do they have CCTV there do you know? Maybe if the RTP and the owners of the clubs and bars and hotels were to release their footage and pics then tourists and fearful inhabitants of Koh Tao might follow suit.

You don't need CCTV to place the defendants there. They admit that they were there.

As for additional evidence, you will have to wait for the trial.

[Jai Dee]

One post containing defamation has been removed from this thread.

From the Forum Rules:

6) You will not post comments that could be reasonably construed as defamation or libel.

Defamation is the issuance of a statement about another person or business which causes that person to suffer harm. It does not have to be false to be defamatory. Libel is when the defamatory statement is published either in a drawing, painting, cinematography, film, picture or letters made visible by any means, or any other recording instruments, recording picture or letters, or by broadcasting or spreading picture, or by propagation by any other means. Defamation is both a civil and criminal charge in Thailand.

[JLCrab]

Nom has proof that he was in Bangkok at the time of the crime. Well not at the time of the crime but there or there abouts.

Why has nobody come forward to say that Now wasn't at the uni at the time of the crime, well there or there abouts.

Nom has a guy who is paid lord knows how much to say he was at school( His solicitor). Now forget all that, how many of Noms class mates have said he was in school the day after the murder ?

I can not recall any of them saying that. Can you ?

AleG/jdinasia you defend Nom 24/7 whilst telling us you don't even know the guy. Why are you so passionate about him ?

Even if Nomsod was in Bangkok after 9 am on Monday, that doesn't preclude him from being at the island 4+ hours earlier. If a desperate person with money and connections wanted to get to Bangkok from the island as quick as possible, how long would it take? More than 4 to 5 hours in the early morning? Perhaps someone in that region could do that experiment. And even if it were proved that Nomsod was on the island at the time of the crime (by witnesses and/or DNA and/or CCTV...), RTP echoers would say that doesn't implicate him. Even if it were shown to the small % of those who doubt he's 'running man' that he was indeed running man, RTP echoers could still claim that doesn't implicate him - it only shows that he was jogging around in light colored shorts on that walkway near the crime scene. I admit, there needs to be firmer evidence for Nomsod to be nailed. Unfortunately, RTP, by all appearances (Since the 2nd week of the investigation), seem fixated on trying to shield Nomsod and Mon from any further scrutiny. Why would that be? Most of us don't need to stretch too far to find answers to 'why Nomsod and Mon were dropped so suddenly and thoroughly from being prime suspects.' The writing is on the wall, in large luminous font.

Last time I drove from Koh Tao to Bangkok it took about 9 hours including fast boat transfer and that was doing up to 140km/h where the road allowed; it may be possible to make it in 7 but the road is not in the best conditions, there are usually several police checkpoints along the way and in my case I didn't hit the early morning traffic jam that would be present on a Monday morning. You see, that's the difference between someone that knows stuff and someone that makes stuff up as he goes, the person who knows doesn't have to resort to theories.

By the way, according to your theories, he also got a haircut along the way.

Then of course there's the complete lack of any evidence that actually happened, but why let the lack of facts get on the way of a good story?

I put my doubts in the form of questions. You offered an answer that may or may not be useful. But then you couldn't help but digress to rudeness as is your wont. you're the only person who mentioned; 'he got a haircut along the way'. What a silly attempt at diversion. Nomsod had a week to get a haircut, and get his sideburns shaped toward his ears - in order to try and distance himself from the incriminating CCTV. I still would like to see if there is someone who could make the trip from Ko Tao to Bangkok in a hurry, and see how long it takes. I don't believe the CCTV from the U dorm is when it's purported to be, and I don't think Nomsod was in class that morning. If I was heading the investigation, I would investigate such things, and a whole lot more. Such things are not being investigated, and the reasons (why there was zero investigation of Nomsod and his alibi after he was suddenly dropped as a prime suspect) are plain as day. So, if my hunch proves true, it wouldn't have mattered if Nomsod showed up in Bkk at noon or later. What matters is if there is proof that he was one of the perps of the crime. This summer could prove to be interesting, as people speak up at the trial. No one will be surprised if the judge puts a lid on any mention of evidence which could incriminate any of the H's people.

If I was heading the investigation, I would investigate such things, and a whole lot more... If you were heading the investigation, you would be so good that the headman's folk up north there would maybe already have arranged for a n unfortunate rock-climbing acccident

[stephenterry]

I agree.That doesn't mean he wasn't in the vicinity, as could be said of around fifty or more party people.

A genuine wallflower from all accounts.

In a country that loves the internet - pictures - selfies ----

With tourists all around documenting their holidays ----

Nothing.

Exactly JD! Where is the CCTV and photographs of the Burmese suspects near the scene of the crime at the time of the crime? And while we're at it, let's be having a look at the CCTV of the alleged altercation at the bar and the running woman the RTP have. And all the other footage that would be on the cameras at the AC, In Touch and Choppers Bar. Oh and the full CCTV of running man with the big farang guy and Asian looking woman would be a bonus - so we can see how close they were in the three second gap. And some footage of the Ocean View apartments would be great too - do they have CCTV there do you know? Maybe if the RTP and the owners of the clubs and bars and hotels were to release their footage and pics then tourists and fearful inhabitants of Koh Tao might follow suit.

You don't need CCTV to place the defendants there. They admit that they were there.

As for additional evidence, you will have to wait for the trial.

If additional CCTV was made available (although I doubt that it will) it could result in a fair trial whatever the scenario. As for the B2 they admit they were at the beach about 100 metres from the crime scene, with a witness placing them there at 1am.

After that until 5am, when they were found asleep in their room, their movements are not properly accounted for. They mentioned having a brief 15 minute swim near the AC bar when their clothing and guitar went missing - the timing is not known. Logically, it must have been after 1am. We will have to wait to hear what DNA evidence is produced to incriminate them as being at the crime scene later that night.

[seahorse]

Nom has proof that he was in Bangkok at the time of the crime. Well not at the time of the crime but there or there abouts.

Why has nobody come forward to say that Now wasn't at the uni at the time of the crime, well there or there abouts.

Nom has a guy who is paid lord knows how much to say he was at school( His solicitor). Now forget all that, how many of Noms class mates have said he was in school the day after the murder ?

I can not recall any of them saying that. Can you ?

AleG/jdinasia you defend Nom 24/7 whilst telling us you don't even know the guy. Why are you so passionate about him ?

Even if Nomsod was in Bangkok after 9 am on Monday, that doesn't preclude him from being at the island 4+ hours earlier. If a desperate person with money and connections wanted to get to Bangkok from the island as quick as possible, how long would it take? More than 4 to 5 hours in the early morning? Perhaps someone in that region could do that experiment. And even if it were proved that Nomsod was on the island at the time of the crime (by witnesses and/or DNA and/or CCTV...), RTP echoers would say that doesn't implicate him. Even if it were shown to the small % of those who doubt he's 'running man' that he was indeed running man, RTP echoers could still claim that doesn't implicate him - it only shows that he was jogging around in light colored shorts on that walkway near the crime scene. I admit, there needs to be firmer evidence for Nomsod to be nailed. Unfortunately, RTP, by all appearances (Since the 2nd week of the investigation), seem fixated on trying to shield Nomsod and Mon from any further scrutiny. Why would that be? Most of us don't need to stretch too far to find answers to 'why Nomsod and Mon were dropped so suddenly and thoroughly from being prime suspects.' The writing is on the wall, in large luminous font.

Not exactly the same, but I know someone who has done Bangkok to Nakhon Sri Thammarat and vice versa (800km) in under 5 hours on more than one occasion. He made that trip in the small hours of the morning when there is the least traffic. That's an average speed of 160km an hour.

Chumphon is a lot closer - less than 500km, but 6am to 9am on a Monday there would be more traffic.

If you were to get a speedboat from Koh Tao at 5am to Chumphon (say an hour) (6am) and then drove at 160km / hour, it is theoretically possible to be in Bangkok at 9am.

Of course, if you had money and connections, you might be able to do the trip faster, or take a different route.

[AleG]

Nom has proof that he was in Bangkok at the time of the crime. Well not at the time of the crime but there or there abouts.

Why has nobody come forward to say that Now wasn't at the uni at the time of the crime, well there or there abouts.

Nom has a guy who is paid lord knows how much to say he was at school( His solicitor). Now forget all that, how many of Noms class mates have said he was in school the day after the murder ?

I can not recall any of them saying that. Can you ?

AleG/jdinasia you defend Nom 24/7 whilst telling us you don't even know the guy. Why are you so passionate about him ?

Even if Nomsod was in Bangkok after 9 am on Monday, that doesn't preclude him from being at the island 4+ hours earlier. If a desperate person with money and connections wanted to get to Bangkok from the island as quick as possible, how long would it take? More than 4 to 5 hours in the early morning? Perhaps someone in that region could do that experiment. And even if it were proved that Nomsod was on the island at the time of the crime (by witnesses and/or DNA and/or CCTV...), RTP echoers would say that doesn't implicate him. Even if it were shown to the small % of those who doubt he's 'running man' that he was indeed running man, RTP echoers could still claim that doesn't implicate him - it only shows that he was jogging around in light colored shorts on that walkway near the crime scene. I admit, there needs to be firmer evidence for Nomsod to be nailed. Unfortunately, RTP, by all appearances (Since the 2nd week of the investigation), seem fixated on trying to shield Nomsod and Mon from any further scrutiny. Why would that be? Most of us don't need to stretch too far to find answers to 'why Nomsod and Mon were dropped so suddenly and thoroughly from being prime suspects.' The writing is on the wall, in large luminous font.

Last time I drove from Koh Tao to Bangkok it took about 9 hours including fast boat transfer and that was doing up to 140km/h where the road allowed; it may be possible to make it in 7 but the road is not in the best conditions, there are usually several police checkpoints along the way and in my case I didn't hit the early morning traffic jam that would be present on a Monday morning. You see, that's the difference between someone that knows stuff and someone that makes stuff up as he goes, the person who knows doesn't have to resort to theories.

By the way, according to your theories, he also got a haircut along the way.

Then of course there's the complete lack of any evidence that actually happened, but why let the lack of facts get on the way of a good story?

I put my doubts in the form of questions. You offered an answer that may or may not be useful. But then you couldn't help but digress to rudeness as is your wont. you're the only person who mentioned; 'he got a haircut along the way'. What a silly attempt at diversion. Nomsod had a week to get a haircut, and get his sideburns shaped toward his ears - in order to try and distance himself from the incriminating CCTV. I still would like to see if there is someone who could make the trip from Ko Tao to Bangkok in a hurry, and see how long it takes. I don't believe the CCTV from the U dorm is when it's purported to be, and I don't think Nomsod was in class that morning. If I was heading the investigation, I would investigate such things, and a whole lot more. Such things are not being investigated, and the reasons (why there was zero investigation of Nomsod and his alibi after he was suddenly dropped as a prime suspect) are plain as day. So, if my hunch proves true, it wouldn't have mattered if Nomsod showed up in Bkk at noon or later. What matters is if there is proof that he was one of the perps of the crime. This summer could prove to be interesting, as people speak up at the trial. No one will be surprised if the judge puts a lid on any mention of evidence which could incriminate any of the H's people.

What does it matter how long it takes to go from Koh Tao to Bangkok or when you fantasize he had a haircut if you simply declare the CCTV footage a forgery done afterwards? Keep your make believe scenarios consistent.

[stephenterry]

Was the 'reason' for the specific body placement another one of Mr. Terry's FACTS?

The staging was factual. The interpretation is best suited to a criminal psychologist, who could also suggest that Berybert's surmise (and mine) is within the realms of possible motives. Hopefully, the defence have that one covered.

[AleG]

I know it's late in the day to be asking this.

I understand why mon was accused by police. Because shaun fingered him so naturally the police investigated him.

2 questions.

Why did they not investigate the cop as well.

How did nomsod name ever come into it.

What is the reason the police began mentioning him in Bkk since shaun had not said anything about him.

Be grateful for an answer.

As far as I can tell, he came into it after people in CSI LA pointed a finger at him based on this:

"Well, the reason is because "Nom Sod" and his friends had posted comments on CSI during the time that Sean leaked out a statement that he was being threatened and bullied by the mafia. In many ways, this allowed Admin and people on CSI LA page to see the suspicious behavior and we were able to recognize the close similarity in the physical features of the suspect betweem the CCTV video and "Nom Sod"

They didn't like the things he said about the issue and decided that it was him on the CCTV video even though no facial features are visible.

In short, vindictive rumor mongering.

[seahorse]

FACT: The father’s statement originally was that Nomsod had to hurry back to Uni in Bangkok for exams. A week later, when they were put under further scrutiny his statement changed to: ‘He hasn’t been home (to Koh Tao) for a few months, I haven’t seen him’. This was untrue however as he had been photographed on the island a month earlier.

FACT: On September 24th it was announced that Nomsod was a person of interest. A press conference was quickly launched at his embassy where his lawyer (a close family friend) brought out CCTV stills of Nomsod at his university residence. The timestamp was 09:16 sept 15th. Early flights from Koh Samui and Surat Thani would have given him enough time to get back to BKK and jump in a taxi. Logic dictates that if he had been at his residence the previous night there would also have been footage to prove that. Recently doubt has been cast on the authenticity of the time stamps, as furniture seen in the residence had been moved a few months before hand yet was back in it’s old position in these cctv captures.

"Early flights from Koh Samui and Surat Thani would have given him enough time to get back to BKK and jump in a taxi."

That is not a "FACT", it's unsupported speculation. What would make it a fact would be a passenger list with his name, CCTV of him at either airports, witnesses testimony placing him there, etc...

In any case, which one is it? He murdered the two Britons, jumped into a waiting boat that nobody saw (strangely, the idea of using the boat to dispose of the bodies at sea didn't occur to anyone), full throttle to Samui (boat and driver unknown), went to the airport and straight into a flight (at least half an hour before the gates closed) flew back to BKK, took a taxi back to his apartment (somewhere in between all that had time for a haircut and put on his university clothes), all this leaving absolutely no trace whatsoever, and then just walked casually in because he knew that there was this CCTV camera that would record his entry... or, they just faked the CCTV footage; and if they faked the CCTV footage why not fake it to be at, let's say, 4AM on the 15th of September?

It has to be one or the other.

It's all baloney, desperately looking for something that can be construed into a marginally possible scenario that falls apart as soon as the mere minimum of examination is applied, for example the fact that the CCTV footage of him at the lobby was not the only alibi presented.

Here's a screen capture from another CCTV camera:

14120925241412092757l.jpg

"Logic dictates that if he had been at his residence the previous night there would also have been footage to prove that."

Well, proven, what now? Call it all fake with no evidence to substantiate the claim?

The month in the time stamp in that screen capture has obviously been changed. There is no proof that Nomsod was in Bangkok at the time of the murders. None whatsoever.

Why do you feel the need to defend this guy?

[JLCrab]

Was the 'reason' for the specific body placement another one of Mr. Terry's FACTS?

The staging was factual. The interpretation is best suited to a criminal psychologist, who could also suggest that Berybert's surmise (and mine) is within the realms of possible motives. Hopefully, the defence have that one covered.

And you know for a fact that it was staged?

[AleG]

FACT: The father’s statement originally was that Nomsod had to hurry back to Uni in Bangkok for exams. A week later, when they were put under further scrutiny his statement changed to: ‘He hasn’t been home (to Koh Tao) for a few months, I haven’t seen him’. This was untrue however as he had been photographed on the island a month earlier.

FACT: On September 24th it was announced that Nomsod was a person of interest. A press conference was quickly launched at his embassy where his lawyer (a close family friend) brought out CCTV stills of Nomsod at his university residence. The timestamp was 09:16 sept 15th. Early flights from Koh Samui and Surat Thani would have given him enough time to get back to BKK and jump in a taxi. Logic dictates that if he had been at his residence the previous night there would also have been footage to prove that. Recently doubt has been cast on the authenticity of the time stamps, as furniture seen in the residence had been moved a few months before hand yet was back in it’s old position in these cctv captures.

"Early flights from Koh Samui and Surat Thani would have given him enough time to get back to BKK and jump in a taxi."

That is not a "FACT", it's unsupported speculation. What would make it a fact would be a passenger list with his name, CCTV of him at either airports, witnesses testimony placing him there, etc...

In any case, which one is it? He murdered the two Britons, jumped into a waiting boat that nobody saw (strangely, the idea of using the boat to dispose of the bodies at sea didn't occur to anyone), full throttle to Samui (boat and driver unknown), went to the airport and straight into a flight (at least half an hour before the gates closed) flew back to BKK, took a taxi back to his apartment (somewhere in between all that had time for a haircut and put on his university clothes), all this leaving absolutely no trace whatsoever, and then just walked casually in because he knew that there was this CCTV camera that would record his entry... or, they just faked the CCTV footage; and if they faked the CCTV footage why not fake it to be at, let's say, 4AM on the 15th of September?

It has to be one or the other.

It's all baloney, desperately looking for something that can be construed into a marginally possible scenario that falls apart as soon as the mere minimum of examination is applied, for example the fact that the CCTV footage of him at the lobby was not the only alibi presented.

Here's a screen capture from another CCTV camera:

14120925241412092757l.jpg

"Logic dictates that if he had been at his residence the previous night there would also have been footage to prove that."

Well, proven, what now? Call it all fake with no evidence to substantiate the claim?

The month in the time stamp in that screen capture has obviously been changed. There is no proof that Nomsod was in Bangkok at the time of the murders. None whatsoever.

Why do you feel the need to defend this guy?

This is false:

"There is no proof that Nomsod was in Bangkok at the time of the murders. None whatsoever."

"Mr. Warot's lawyer, Attakorn Onart, presented reporters with a still photograph from CCTV footage that showed Mr. Warot at his university and residence in Bangkok on 13-15 September.

Mr. Warot also attended classes during that period of time, Mr. Attakorn said.

"There are university documents that confirmed his class attendance and examination," the lawyer told reporters."

"police questioned Mr. Warot and established that he was not on the island when the murder took place, deputy police chief Pol.Gen. Ake Angsananond said yesterday"

He was cleared, he provided a solid alibi, end of story.

What there is no evidence whatsoever is that he was on the island at the time or that he had any role in the murders; none, zero.

Why do you feel the need to attack him?

[AleG]

FACT: The father’s statement originally was that Nomsod had to hurry back to Uni in Bangkok for exams. A week later, when they were put under further scrutiny his statement changed to: ‘He hasn’t been home (to Koh Tao) for a few months, I haven’t seen him’. This was untrue however as he had been photographed on the island a month earlier.

FACT: On September 24th it was announced that Nomsod was a person of interest. A press conference was quickly launched at his embassy where his lawyer (a close family friend) brought out CCTV stills of Nomsod at his university residence. The timestamp was 09:16 sept 15th. Early flights from Koh Samui and Surat Thani would have given him enough time to get back to BKK and jump in a taxi. Logic dictates that if he had been at his residence the previous night there would also have been footage to prove that. Recently doubt has been cast on the authenticity of the time stamps, as furniture seen in the residence had been moved a few months before hand yet was back in it’s old position in these cctv captures.

"Early flights from Koh Samui and Surat Thani would have given him enough time to get back to BKK and jump in a taxi."

That is not a "FACT", it's unsupported speculation. What would make it a fact would be a passenger list with his name, CCTV of him at either airports, witnesses testimony placing him there, etc...

In any case, which one is it? He murdered the two Britons, jumped into a waiting boat that nobody saw (strangely, the idea of using the boat to dispose of the bodies at sea didn't occur to anyone), full throttle to Samui (boat and driver unknown), went to the airport and straight into a flight (at least half an hour before the gates closed) flew back to BKK, took a taxi back to his apartment (somewhere in between all that had time for a haircut and put on his university clothes), all this leaving absolutely no trace whatsoever, and then just walked casually in because he knew that there was this CCTV camera that would record his entry... or, they just faked the CCTV footage; and if they faked the CCTV footage why not fake it to be at, let's say, 4AM on the 15th of September?

It has to be one or the other.

It's all baloney, desperately looking for something that can be construed into a marginally possible scenario that falls apart as soon as the mere minimum of examination is applied, for example the fact that the CCTV footage of him at the lobby was not the only alibi presented.

Here's a screen capture from another CCTV camera:

14120925241412092757l.jpg

"Logic dictates that if he had been at his residence the previous night there would also have been footage to prove that."

Well, proven, what now? Call it all fake with no evidence to substantiate the claim?

The month in the time stamp in that screen capture has obviously been changed. There is no proof that Nomsod was in Bangkok at the time of the murders. None whatsoever.

Why do you feel the need to defend this guy?

Oh, I forgot, about the "The month in the time stamp in that screen capture has obviously been changed", this only displays that you are unqualified to make such comments; some CCTV cameras change the text color depending on the background luminosity so its easier to read, dark background changes the font to white and bright background changes it to black, some cameras do it better than others; that one, apparently, does a poor job.

Like this:

"Here is a daytime example of the HIKVISION camera. Notice how the time stamp and the name stamp change color from white or black depending on the background."