PM Prayut expedites High-Speed Rail Project for tourism purpose

[ianbardon]

its just a ploy to get another 14 trillion grant form Asia monitory fund, and it wont go anywhere near a train, they have not paid back the last loan from 1997 ish, lol

[ThaidaGwaii]

I can think of a lot of better ways to improve tourism in Thailand... Is this a serious idea???

Thai always complain how shitty Chinese tourists are so why would they want to bring more???

Whatever you do, make sure there are no train station between Laos and Bangkok! That way, the train will be faster and we won't have to deal with these shitty chinese tourists in Issan!

[lapd]

Really? Do you think tourist will fly to Thailand in large numbers just to ride a fast train?

If it gets them to Pattaya or Bkk or Hua Hin faster then yes, ABSOLUTELY. No traffic jams either.

Lot's of tourists take the express rail link and lots of people will take this. It's not just for tourists btw. Connecting U-Tapao to Suvarnabumi is a big one and Rayong is a working town.

I would much rather pay more and get there faster then go barreling down a road in a tin can corolla taxi or whatever. Good chance the driver hasn't slept in more than 15hours. Good chance the car isn't properly maintained. Then you go flying down the road where there are lots of big slow moving transports and chances are they are not properly maintained and the drivers not well rested. No thanks.

Edited March 3, 2015 by lapd

[attento]

All the cost of a highspeed rail link just for a 200km journey ?

How much time could be saved by going "high speed"? Minutes, certainly not hours.

Doubtful if the small amount of time saved would be enough to attract more/better tourists.

Must read behind the headlines . . what is the real reason this idea is being promoted ?

[lapd]

Asians love the idea of high speed trains. I think the Thai gov'ts see it as a statement that they are becoming a first world country. I think just about everything they do is all about trying to show that they are not a poor 3rd world country.

[12DrinkMore]

Really? Do you think tourist will fly to Thailand in large numbers just to ride a fast train? How about investing money into more industry? Investing in the tourist trade is enough. You need to versify the economy in all areas, not just Rice and Tourism. The other day I saw a Thai working in a Thai fast food restaurant. A four year graduate from college in engineering working for 300 baht a day as a waiter. Be more creative for college grads. Tourism, whether it be as a bus driver, guide, or a worker in a stall selling hand made products, is not a career field. Only temporary until something better is found. The longer Thailand is focused primarily in tourist trade as main revenue, the longer it will remain a third world country. Look at Japan, South Korea. Tourism is not their main sourse of income. Build factories and products manufactured here in Thailand. Instead of importing goods and levying a heavy tax, manufacture it here. Build the factories 50-70 kilometers away from Bangkok. The City is too congested, and has reached its breaking point. Move the people out of Bangkok to where the jobs will be. ....outside of Bangkok! And what plans are being made when the tide starts rolling into Bangkok? Yet more and more High Rise building are being built.

Do you think a sea wall 20 feet high will stop the flow into the city? Do you think a High-speed Rail system funded by the tourist trade will build this sea wall? Thailand is becoming over exploited through tourism. It is slowly loosing its heritage

and slow pace lifestyle I once knew 40 years ago. Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Myanmar. Are all in competition

for tourism trade. Its not who will be the biggest and best in tourism, but who will be the best at versifying their resources and moving their country forward independantly from the tourist industry.

Please go and read some facts.

Tourism is about 8% of the Thai economy.

EIGHT PERCENT.

Amazingly 92% is not tourism.

Just go and travel around non-tourist areas for a week and check out the affluence.

[chooka]

Why is this in the remit of a government which is merely in place to stabilise the country and hand it back over to democratic civilian control next year? Yes, it is a rhetorical question..

I guess the PM has no plans of going anywhere. I also thought they were just going to be a short time interim government and the military was then going to give the country back to the people. That was all just lies and propaganda, they are settling for centuries.

[chooka]

With the local's skills in operation and maintenance i propose a suitable cheap solution:

I'm still hoping to finally get my first "like" from Costas

cheap? Didn't you notice that's a luxury imported donkey and it attracts import tax of 354%. Stick to the local vios model. Edited March 3, 2015 by chooka

[BSJ]

I think we are all on the same page with this issue. So, who is going to write the PM and tell him it's a really bad idea? Anyone???

[Fat Haggis]

I totally agree with you. The junta as some call them have made more changes for the good in the last six months than all the past governments have in years. This fast train idea which was first taken off the list of projects somehow has been reborn again. It is a very bad idea. The Thai government and its citizens are on a spending spree and within a year it will all come crashing down on them much worse than 1997. If the military had not taken over when they did many foreigners living here now would have experienced a civil war and worse. Democracy sometimes does not always work the best for some nations. America has its own style of corruption just better hidden. Thailand has some very dark days ahead and not because of the military. If you don,t see the writing on the wall your blind.

Why is this in the remit of a government which is merely in place to stabilise the country and hand it back over to democratic civilian control next year? Yes, it is a rhetorical question..

My guess is either they are trying to do good things for the countrys future now OR someone stands to gain bulk profit for granting the project into the right hands.

either way its not much different to our own countries who grant mining rights for under the table fee or chop down forest for the profit of short term government.

not many world governments make sound long term decisions in the interest of the voters, and when they try they often get blocked by opposition government who dont want the ruling government to gain popularity. Its a stupid system really when you think about it.

say what you want about the junta government but at least they are getting things done without interferance from childish bearocratic bickering

Another supposed long term farang banging the civil war drum, utter nonesence considering Thailand already has a civil war ongoing in the south

I HAVE been in a country where it was closer to all out civil war, and Thailand was far from that, the atmospherics over 99% of Thailand was NO different last year than it was the previous year, isolated locations where the protests were contained in Bangkok were more high risk.

I was speaking to a Thai Miltary Intel guy through out the protests, and even he never once mentioned a country wide civil war.

How many embassies started evacuating expats through this so called imminent civil war?

How many resident expats fleed at the prospects of such a civil war? Why did 90% of the TFV forum members who live here remain here if this was heading to a civil war?

How many expats sold up all their estates and left? Less than a handful Jim, why didn't you leave? Is it simply because civil war in your mind wouldn't affect you?

Do you think that farangs who stayed would be alright and not targeted by whoever?

The simple logistics for the Reds to go to all out war doesn't even bare thinking about as its not feasible to stage an all out civil war as you and many claim!!

One things for sure, if s country wide civil war was imminent the RTA would have had droves of desertions and AWOL cases, with many watermelon conscripts returning home.

Stating a civil war was imminent was nothing short of scaremongering, not a single western intelligence agency backed up the notion the country was heading to all out civil war either.

You could possibly have had an escalation of the current civil war to areas from the south, but are you seriously telling me that there was enough weapons on both the red and yellow sides to openly go to war with each other over shit government policies of the PTP?

The yellows would have risen up and defended what exactly? What would be the targets of the Reds? Bangkok like before?

I spent time travelling across Thailand in 2012 and 2013 and the country didn't feel remotely close to what Being in Iraq from 2004 to present day did, even last year 95% of Thailand was going about it's daily business same as the year before, most Thais were oblivious to what was going on with the protests in Bangkok.

Civil war? Not even close Jim and as I've pointed out already you can't start something that's already happening in the south ?

[12DrinkMore]

Another supposed long term farang banging the civil war drum, utter nonesence considering Thailand already has a civil war ongoing in the south

I HAVE been in a country where it was closer to all out civil war, and Thailand was far from that, the atmospherics over 99% of Thailand was NO different last year than it was the previous year, isolated locations where the protests were contained in Bangkok were more high risk.

I was speaking to a Thai Miltary Intel guy through out the protests, and even he never once mentioned a country wide civil war.

How many embassies started evacuating expats through this so called imminent civil war?

How many resident expats fleed at the prospects of such a civil war? Why did 90% of the TFV forum members who live here remain here if this was heading to a civil war?

How many expats sold up all their estates and left? Less than a handful Jim, why didn't you leave? Is it simply because civil war in your mind wouldn't affect you?

Do you think that farangs who stayed would be alright and not targeted by whoever?

The simple logistics for the Reds to go to all out war doesn't even bare thinking about as its not feasible to stage an all out civil war as you and many claim!!

One things for sure, if s country wide civil war was imminent the RTA would have had droves of desertions and AWOL cases, with many watermelon conscripts returning home.

Stating a civil war was imminent was nothing short of scaremongering, not a single western intelligence agency backed up the notion the country was heading to all out civil war either.

You could possibly have had an escalation of the current civil war to areas from the south, but are you seriously telling me that there was enough weapons on both the red and yellow sides to openly go to war with each other over shit government policies of the PTP?

The yellows would have risen up and defended what exactly? What would be the targets of the Reds? Bangkok like before?

I spent time travelling across Thailand in 2012 and 2013 and the country didn't feel remotely close to what Being in Iraq from 2004 to present day did, even last year 95% of Thailand was going about it's daily business same as the year before, most Thais were oblivious to what was going on with the protests in Bangkok.

Civil war? Not even close Jim and as I've pointed out already you can't start something that's already happening in the south ?

Yes, the doomsayers have been predicting economic collapse and chaos for years.

They seem to be unable to read about the opposite and see the incredible rate of development.

I think it is due to living in the same dull soi year after year and staggering back and fore to the same bar with the same old crowd every evening.

They should attempt to get out a little bit more.

[Fat Haggis]

Indeed there's so many developing locations up where I am, the main road is getting widened too and lots of buildings going up all over the area too.

And today is a big festival up here where all the women dance, my wife is away spending 3 hours to look beautiful for the festival in 5-7 hours time!!

[mike324]

when the train jump tracks every month last year, people laughed about it, when the govt actually wants to improve it, people are complaining about it ...amazing TV folks, should we let the train and tracks rot some more?

Has anyone ever thought about the benefits of the trains? Less buses and taxi to Pattaya, less traffic and improve safety? More efficient and faster travel time.

If we are going to yap about corruption etc etc, heck we might as well stop time for the next 20 years until the people catch up with the changes in the society.

I don't agree with the Hua Hin route yet as there is not enough demand for it to be profitable. Whereas the Bangkok to Rayong route looks good, especially taking into consideration all the factories that are located in Rayong also.

[Tomtomtom69]

Won't Happen. High speed rail for Tourists ?, they really are talking out of their arse

i think they may be trying to distract people From the Nong Khai -Khorat line . I recall the announced it would be finished in 2 years , 6 months ago, Personally I don't think they will break ground for another year at least

And if it just so happens that they attempt to break ground after the supposed handover of power to the next civilian government next year, I wouldn't be surprised if things get delayed again. Especially because the Thai people may finally be allowed to voice their concerns without fear of being detained.

China is as usual an unrealistic optimist who thinks they speak on behalf of other countries they haven't even consulted. Back in 2011 or so they announced they were going to build a line from Kunming through Laos to Bangkok and have it finished by 2015. There was an almost amusing article to that effect published on Kunming's expat web portal www.gokunming.com, surprisingly written by a westerner but in typically optimistic Chinese fashion. Ummm....who did they consult back then about this plan? Who would be building it? Even the Lao side was still in negotiations with the Chinese side at that time and they eventually disagreed on some of the terms so the project was delayed indefinitely. Only in more recent times have they agreed to a new Chinese agreement, but currently even that's a bit vague as the only talk in town seems to be Prayuth's talks with China but without any mention of Laos, which needs to be passed through in order to link Thailand and China seeing the two countries do not share a common border. So here we are 4 years later and ground hasn't even been broken yet, a far cry from the supposed completion that they announced 4 years ago. What a joke.

Myanmar is out due to security and sovereignty concerns (recently Myanmar also cancelled a planned Kunming to Kyaukpyu on the Bengal Bay high speed railway line) while Vietnam said no to China a long time ago due to similar concerns. That only leaves Laos.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Tomtomtom69

[Tomtomtom69]

Really? Do you think tourist will fly to Thailand in large numbers just to ride a fast train? How about investing money into more industry? Investing in the tourist trade is enough. You need to versify the economy in all areas, not just Rice and Tourism. The other day I saw a Thai working in a Thai fast food restaurant. A four year graduate from college in engineering working for 300 baht a day as a waiter. Be more creative for college grads. Tourism, whether it be as a bus driver, guide, or a worker in a stall selling hand made products, is not a career field. Only temporary until something better is found. The longer Thailand is focused primarily in tourist trade as main revenue, the longer it will remain a third world country. Look at Japan, South Korea. Tourism is not their main sourse of income. Build factories and products manufactured here in Thailand. Instead of importing goods and levying a heavy tax, manufacture it here. Build the factories 50-70 kilometers away from Bangkok. The City is too congested, and has reached its breaking point. Move the people out of Bangkok to where the jobs will be. ....outside of Bangkok! And what plans are being made when the tide starts rolling into Bangkok? Yet more and more High Rise building are being built.

Do you think a sea wall 20 feet high will stop the flow into the city? Do you think a High-speed Rail system funded by the tourist trade will build this sea wall? Thailand is becoming over exploited through tourism. It is slowly loosing its heritage

and slow pace lifestyle I once knew 40 years ago. Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Myanmar. Are all in competition

for tourism trade. Its not who will be the biggest and best in tourism, but who will be the best at versifying their resources and moving their country forward independantly from the tourist industry.

Please go and read some facts.

Tourism is about 8% of the Thai economy.

EIGHT PERCENT.

Amazingly 92% is not tourism.

Just go and travel around non-tourist areas for a week and check out the affluence.

Channel News Asia and other sources suggest it's actually around 10%, so I trust their figures. Unofficially, tourism may however account for up to 17% or so of GDP if indirect sources are included. I would presume that the whole hotel industry is by and large included in tourism for GDP purposes. Even conventions, despite their purpose being business in nature, would possibly be included at least indirectly as contributing towards tourism mainly because all the delegates and attendees are staying in hotels, eating in restaurants and almost always, even the most important and serious conventions, meetings and conferences generally have some cultural tour component to them, often held on the last day. This meets the definition of tourism.

But I do agree that Thailand isn't like some countries, where tourism is the mainstay of the economy. Despite all we hear about Thailand=tourism, there are bigger industries such as light manufacturing, manufacturing of vehicles, food processing, seafood processing, rubber and other agricultural processing, rice etc.

However, Thailand IS putting a bit too much effort into promoting tourism, possibly at the expense of other industries. Perhaps the government fears a gradual, but eventual flight of capital to other countries where there is greater political stability, a larger market, lower wages and greater economies of scale. And tourism is such an easy money maker that promoting it isn't difficult.

Already this has started happening. A major copper products manufacturer from the USA, Freeport-Mcmoran nowadays only manufactures copper cable in Thailand with all other manufacturing now taking place in China. Previously they had a bigger presence in Thailand.

And of course I recognize that there continues to be an increase in inbound investment in some areas, such as production of motor vehicles, but it seems that the country is moving towards building up some key industries, while possibly neglecting other ones. The way I see it is motor vehicle production, tourism, light manufacturing and agricultural/food processing and services are being scaled up, while heavy industry, chemicals manufacturing and other polluting industries, textiles etc. are being scaled down. Of course, wage growth and increasingly strict environmental regulations are playing a role in the gradual decline of the latter industries.

[ExPratt]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Won't Happen. High speed rail for Tourists ?, they really are talking out of their arse

i think they may be trying to distract people From the Nong Khai -Khorat line . I recall the announced it would be finished in 2 years , 6 months ago, Personally I don't think they will break ground for another year at least

And if it just so happens that they attempt to break ground after the supposed handover of power to the next civilian government next year, I wouldn't be surprised if things get delayed again. Especially because the Thai people may finally be allowed to voice their concerns without fear of being detained.

China is as usual an unrealistic optimist who thinks they speak on behalf of other countries they haven't even consulted. Back in 2011 or so they announced they were going to build a line from Kunming through Laos to Bangkok and have it finished by 2015. There was an almost amusing article to that effect published on Kunming's expat web portal www.gokunming.com, surprisingly written by a westerner but in typically optimistic Chinese fashion. Ummm....who did they consult back then about this plan? Who would be building it? Even the Lao side was still in negotiations with the Chinese side at that time and they eventually disagreed on some of the terms so the project was delayed indefinitely. Only in more recent times have they agreed to a new Chinese agreement, but currently even that's a bit vague as the only talk in town seems to be Prayuth's talks with China but without any mention of Laos, which needs to be passed through in order to link Thailand and China seeing the two countries do not share a common border. So here we are 4 years later and ground hasn't even been broken yet, a far cry from the supposed completion that they announced 4 years ago. What a joke.

Myanmar is out due to security and sovereignty concerns (recently Myanmar also cancelled a planned Kunming to Kyaukpyu on the Bengal Bay high speed railway line) while Vietnam said no to China a long time ago due to similar concerns. That only leaves Laos.

Yeah I think its all a bit far fetched . Building a 700k+ railway with new formation , Tunnels , Bridges, drains , comms , Overhead traction, fences , gates is a massive undertaking anywhere in the world. We did one half that size in Malaysia and it took 5 years. I would have thought with the money being thrown at it any new administration in Thailand would want to take a look at it. And when you add the Chanag Mai - Bkk route and high speeds to Hua Hin and Pattaya it just seems all the more unlikely to happen

[RubbaJohnny]

Why is this in the remit of a government which is merely in place to stabilise the country and hand it back over to democratic civilian control next year? Yes, it is a rhetorical question..

Indeed excellent point ,I believe the road map folds out from Nick Hornby's thriller 50 Shades of Gravy Train available from all good stationary nations while despite the rhethoric the great masses rollback to barefoot and labouring

[hawker9000]

when the train jump tracks every month last year, people laughed about it, when the govt actually wants to improve it, people are complaining about it ...amazing TV folks, should we let the train and tracks rot some more?

Has anyone ever thought about the benefits of the trains? Less buses and taxi to Pattaya, less traffic and improve safety? More efficient and faster travel time.

If we are going to yap about corruption etc etc, heck we might as well stop time for the next 20 years until the people catch up with the changes in the society.

I don't agree with the Hua Hin route yet as there is not enough demand for it to be profitable. Whereas the Bangkok to Rayong route looks good, especially taking into consideration all the factories that are located in Rayong also.

"taking into consideration all the factories that are located in Rayong also"

Precisely the reason a bullet train is NOT needed there. Bullet trains don't serve industrial uses - too expensive to transport plain vanilla industrial/factory goods and bulk product that way. Money would be MUCH better spent simply improving the existing conventional rail service along that line (more trains, more reliable schedules, add'l redundant trackage, improved rr infrastructure, etc.). Improved passenger service would be a by-product. High-speed rail service a total white elephant likely to bring in Chinese investment/involvement, and resultant controls (probably not fully appreciated at this point by the thais), into the picture more than anything else.

[techboy]

Won't Happen. High speed rail for Tourists ?, they really are talking out of their arse

i think they may be trying to distract people From the Nong Khai -Khorat line . I recall the announced it would be finished in 2 years , 6 months ago, Personally I don't think they will break ground for another year at least

You seem to be a little short on facts to support such a condescending and know it all stand.

[techboy]

another white elephant tourists are not coming to Thailand anymore fix the scams and move into the 21 st century

Popular tourist destinations will always be plagued by scams. You are a bit vague about how you perceive a lack of 21st century environment here but I strongly suspect that it has to do with not catering to your personal whim.

[lapd]

Once again, like the ridiculous Pattaya tunnel project, money is being carelessly spent when it could be put to much better uses. Not just tourists come to Pattaya. Many Bangkok residents come to the beach and they come mostly by car or van. Lots of tourists come in tour groups and they come by bus. The money would have been better spent to improve the roads--including a 21st century toll system that does not involve traffic stopping every few miles. Truck traffic could be segregated on separate lanes. The airport bus works pretty well for tourists but could be improved with newer buses, better bus stations, more frequent runs, etc.

First I'm hearing about the tunnel project back on again. That's good news. That area is a big bottleneck right now. A lot of growth on the other side of sukhumvit so it's only going to get worse if they don't do it. If high speed rail goes through the station will be on the other side of sukhumvit so all the more reason to do it.

Edited March 4, 2015 by lapd

[kaorop]

I don't know why anyone would want to move faster from one eye wateringly ugly city to another one, though I can see the attractions of not having to stare for hours on end at Thailand's over-cultivated deforested, fauna deprived countryside.

Obtuse, annoyingly true and horribly funny!

[ExPratt]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

You seem to be a little short on facts to support such a condescending and know it all stand.

Worked in the industry for 27 years mate 13 of which in Asia, High speeds in Taiwan and China. To build a High speed Railway over so little distance to serve mainly tourists , would be financially disastrous, Also as mentioned unless it was a shuttle BKK-Pattaya then stops in between , maybe 2 or 3 would mean the Train would not be at high speed for long or at all , acceleration , deceleration times , so again it would be a waste of money not achieving the speeds for any length of time if at all. So a 140-160 kph Railway would be far more practical. If they build the High speed and I guarantee they wont , it will be the biggest while elephant in History. So there's me , whats your opinion ?

[bkkcanuck8]

I expect the next announcements to include things like:

Maglev Train to nowhere

hyperloop around bangkok.

They would make about as much sense as a real high speed train.

[ExPratt]

Just want to add. IMO these "Announcements " are all smoke and Mirrors to take peoples attention away from the real issues. Rather than promoting super fast , super inefficient railways , why don't they get on with building the Nong Khai- Khorat line ? . They announced it would be finished in 2 years 6 months ago. They have not signed a contract with the Chinese yet and Thailand has not started Land acquisitions because they don't even know the alignment of the Railway yet. Its nearly all nonsense being announced mate

[bkkcanuck8]

^ With your experience you might be able to give readers a reason why high speed rail is considerably more expensive than normal (solid) rail links. Off the top of my head I can think of the following things that would be issues with cost.

- things like no level crossings, which means that the rail link has to be elevated or buried beneath all road and other crossings -- otherwise you will have cars crossing thinking they have time and causing accidents.

- turning radius, incline and decline is much more gradual and the rails themselves have to be straighter which means that more tunnels or less room to curve around obstacles which leads to a much higher cost of construction of the rails themselves. It means that much more land will have to be expropriated for use for the rail line since current right of way would be problematic since would not meet the technical requirements.

- freight is much more price sensitive (not a luxury) which means you won't have shared rail use. High speed rail tends to be passenger traffic only.

- etc. etc. etc.

On the other hand a rail that could handle maybe 140kph at most would be more economical and you would still be able to get from Bangkok to Chiang Mai in around 5.5 hours. It would be competitive with the airport since you would not have to go to the airport 2 hours early, go through security, and then wait for luggage on the other end. The rail would also be able to be shared with freight for the most part.

Edited March 4, 2015 by bkkcanuck8

[ExPratt]

]Basically 300kph + needs to be built on Slab Track , Rails sitting on some kind of (normally reinforced ) Track slab . There are a variety of different systems , some are panels some are poured in situ. Survey is also very important for the high speed tolerances are very tight, and several adjustment devices are used in a 3 atge survey to achive those Tolerances. When building ballast track its once the Formation is complete its a case of basically dumping and leveling ballast , laying the sleepers then the rail then duping more ballast and Tamping (Packing)

France has a Glued ballast track system , which is has the fastest Test run and High speed service , but for some reason it has not been adopted in this part of the world

Some pictures below of building process

china casting.docx in China.

Edited March 4, 2015 by ExPratt

[BSJ]

A normal high speed train can run at up to 160kph no problem, any higher and in cab signalling is mandatory if you want safety. Even at lower speeds track side signals can be hard to see in bright sunlight, fog, monsoonal rain.

Just on this point alone, who in their right mind would want passenger trains running at 160kph without in cab signalling and grade separation!

Then there's the money line, Bangkok to the border which is the one that can make money if it is done right. Once the line is past Phitsanulok province there are major construction problems.

The current line has curves laid to a radii that limit the trains to 60 kph.....and I've been told speed limits in places are less than half that.

So, an all new railway alignment is needed and that will include punching holes in dozens of hills....which would be a feat in itself! But it could be done at great expense.

So in conclusion, I am thinking Bangkok to Pattaya and Bangkok to Hua Hin although much easier to achieve are foolish enterprises for any government to embark on.

Maybe as another poster suggested it's a distraction to take peoples minds off other matters.

A more common term is "It's a Red Herring"!

[ExPratt]

casting 3.docx

[ExPratt]

BSJ

Spot on , they have no way to assess the civil works until the Alignment is submitted and as you say it will not be the same at a minimum in the curve and transition