Question: Heat from bikes riding in Thailand

[foodieontour]

A question to the more experienced big bikes riders here in Thailand.

I am in the midst of deciding on purchasing a "big bike". After one year of a 2014 PCX which is just a joy in town (Bangkok) I seek more fun and challenge, probably not at daytime in town (PCX is unbeatable in this area imo) but with less crowded roads in the later hours or a little out of town.

So far I am torn between the

- Ducati Hypermotard

- new Kawsaki Versys 650

I am 183cm with long legs and 75 kg. That seems to make a difference with the local produced setups.

I had the chance to ride both bikes (very) shortly and so far the

- Hyper is crazy aggresive but amazing engine and breaks and suggest a lot of fun long term

- Kawa much more comfortable, overall pleasant, a well rounded package and seems to be an amazing "bang for the buck" - but a little boring long term maybe?

Actually my initial plan was to buy the Versys first for half a year or so and go for the Hypermotard later - this also becvause I did not ride bikes for over a decade and probably will drop it a few times in the beginning.

Now the first pressing issue: Ducati will change the (high) setup for the (locally produced) Hypermotard and lowers the suspension to cater to the much(!) smaller Thai riders - very bad for me. I can order one the regular still up to April, then comes the new lower model. Then it would be only the imported option which is crazy more expensive. So thats kicking my idea of Kawa first and Ducati later... I would need to go used on the Ducati Hypermotard for the setup I require.

My main question:

I guess I would by the Ducati just like that but I have one big issue. My short testride (with a staff owned and kinda broken) Motard produced crazy amounts of heats around my lower legs and ankles. From what I can make out from Thai forums that is an issue Thai complain about quite a bit (even more so with the Monster). Outside Thailand (Europe, USA) I can't find any clue to that. Also the Multistrada I drove shortly had a similar heat development but much less amounts.

-> Is that only happening in hot environment we have here?

-> Is that an issue at all? Or just a falso reception of mine? Should I "man up" to that?

-> Has anyone an opinion to that phenomenon with big bikes in general in Thailand / hot environment?

Secondary question:

Has someone an opinion or experience that would help me determine my decision for a purchase?

I am really craving a bike currently and are itching to order me one.

I am open to suggestions for other configurations

I thought I am to old for a streetfighter but a short ride on the Monster was surprisingly positive. I guess would not buy one anyway due to image I guess but at least it opened my mind to other possibilities.

Also Honda was early out of the race in finding a bike for me, they did not let me testride anything and I am not into the CBRs, which seem to be a safe quality choice otherwise. The NC750X (with dual clutch) was tempting in the beginning but struck me as broing. No comparison to the Versys 650 - that might get boring by itself compared to a Ducati...

Sorry for the long rant and thanks upfront for any support !

Edited March 5, 2015 by foodieontour

[Maesotthailand]

I just got myself the honda cb650f from honda big wing and am in love. Paid 280,000.

[Bung]

Go for the motard and don't get bored. Ducatis are great. Fit frame sliders and just take it a bit easy at first. 10 years is not so long away from bikes. Just use your head when riding. All bikes produce heat. Its just how it is directed away from the radiator your feeling. It'll be fine. Just use quality oil.

[Briggsy]

Be honest. Were you wearing flip-flops or crocs and no socks or even shorts instead of jeans or kevlar pants? Other than this I have nothing postive to add to this thread since I have never ridden either bike.

[foodieontour]

Be honest. Were you wearing flip-flops or crocs and no socks or even shorts instead of jeans or kevlar pants? Other than this I have nothing postive to add to this thread since I have never ridden either bike.

You show me how to shift with flip-flops

I wore long cargo pants (no jeans), with sneakers and short socks. Still crazy amount of heat around my ankles / calfs

[Maesotthailand]

sorry for such a short reply, i was on my mobile and that reply sucked.

i was also debating like yourself. I was riding a Benelli that i rented from a cop here in Mae Sot to see if i liked it. I did not and i will tell you why.

i felt that it did not corner well and the steering was VERY narrow, not convenient at all for turning around or pulling out of parking.

Another issue i had was i nearly went down when i applied the back break a little too much as there is no ABS and i find this a bad thing especially on the roads here.

I have been in love with Ducati and BMW for ages so i was trying to make my mind up what i wanted. I tried my friends CBR500 and was impressed but is was a 2 piston and i always prefer 4.

I am 1.75 meters and about 75 KG.

I would still love to get a BMW,.. gs800 i think is the model they will start to produce here and price should go down to under 500,000. STILL THAT IS A LOT OF MONEY!!

I decided to go for the Honda as the price was really reasonable and service seemed good. The bike handles REALLY good and very little effort. The new design of exhaust i love although i am sure some of the Thai's would want to add something to make it louder, for me its perfect and i love the way the exhaust is hidden and out of the way. Also the heat frying my family jewels is much much less than on my older CB400 2013 model which i have already sold.

i will continue to improve with this bike before i go out and spend a little more on a touring bike, ... as said i would love a BMW as i love the smooth ride, but also VERY worried after 2-3 years would maintenance kill me with all the electronics that are on that bike.

Again, sorry for the first short post and even this one... not much in regards to answering your questions.

the heat factor on this bike is awesome!

while i was typing this, i see at least 3-4 replies from others so will stop here and read others .

[foodieontour]

sorry for such a short reply, i was on my mobile and that reply sucked.

i was also debating like yourself. I was riding a Benelli that i rented from a cop here in Mae Sot to see if i liked it. I did not and i will tell you why.

i felt that it did not corner well and the steering was VERY narrow, not convenient at all for turning around or pulling out of parking.

Another issue i had was i nearly went down when i applied the back break a little too much as there is no ABS and i find this a bad thing especially on the roads here.

I have been in love with Ducati and BMW for ages so i was trying to make my mind up what i wanted. I tried my friends CBR500 and was impressed but is was a 2 piston and i always prefer 4.

I am 1.75 meters and about 75 KG.

I would still love to get a BMW,.. gs800 i think is the model they will start to produce here and price should go down to under 500,000. STILL THAT IS A LOT OF MONEY!!

I decided to go for the Honda as the price was really reasonable and service seemed good. The bike handles REALLY good and very little effort. The new design of exhaust i love although i am sure some of the Thai's would want to add something to make it louder, for me its perfect and i love the way the exhaust is hidden and out of the way. Also the heat frying my family jewels is much much less than on my older CB400 2013 model which i have already sold.

i will continue to improve with this bike before i go out and spend a little more on a touring bike, ... as said i would love a BMW as i love the smooth ride, but also VERY worried after 2-3 years would maintenance kill me with all the electronics that are on that bike.

Again, sorry for the first short post and even this one... not much in regards to answering your questions.

the heat factor on this bike is awesome!

while i was typing this, i see at least 3-4 replies from others so will stop here and read others .

Thanks for the info. Every single bit helps!

As a German guy from Munich I naturally did think of a BMW, also a GS (for touring though).

Only they are pricey here and the support is by far not as extensive as Ducati provides all around the country.

Also to be honest I am caught by the beauty produced by the Italians and apalled by the Design of the BMWs, as good as they might be. For a tourer they might be superior but for a fun bike in town I am not convinced... at this point. The excitement coming from the Hypermotard caught me quite a bit... but yes, I am open to all possibilities at this point.

Edited March 5, 2015 by foodieontour

[Carol Jadzia]

Ducati's are lovely bikes but they can suffer from poor electrics.

I like my bikes to run in the rain. I know some will say they have reliable ducati's.

I have some friends who like riding Harleys but they are really bad in the wet.

I ride a ZRX1100 here. The ER6 I borrowed on my last trip really impressed me.

I have heard good things about the Versys.

Best thing to do is go and sit on them. See how they feel.

Something else to note. I personally am not into the sports bike riding position. Gives me neck and shoulder ache after about 60 miles. I much prefer a more upright riding position for touring.

[joesanunu]

Stopped at a red light, I felt like I had a barbecue grill between my legs when riding the air cooled Ducati Monster.

Then, with a bike like this, you need to wear protection. On top of that, add the tropical heat to the equation.

All that heat reduces the pleasure factor for me.

Then you have the ratio of 400 slow scooters for every big bike out there. Not compatible with the traffic or numerous hazards that pop up all the time...Thailand is just not that great for big bikes.

[Maesotthailand]

sorry for such a short reply, i was on my mobile and that reply sucked.

i was also debating like yourself. I was riding a Benelli that i rented from a cop here in Mae Sot to see if i liked it. I did not and i will tell you why.

i felt that it did not corner well and the steering was VERY narrow, not convenient at all for turning around or pulling out of parking.

Another issue i had was i nearly went down when i applied the back break a little too much as there is no ABS and i find this a bad thing especially on the roads here.

I have been in love with Ducati and BMW for ages so i was trying to make my mind up what i wanted. I tried my friends CBR500 and was impressed but is was a 2 piston and i always prefer 4.

I am 1.75 meters and about 75 KG.

I would still love to get a BMW,.. gs800 i think is the model they will start to produce here and price should go down to under 500,000. STILL THAT IS A LOT OF MONEY!!

I decided to go for the Honda as the price was really reasonable and service seemed good. The bike handles REALLY good and very little effort. The new design of exhaust i love although i am sure some of the Thai's would want to add something to make it louder, for me its perfect and i love the way the exhaust is hidden and out of the way. Also the heat frying my family jewels is much much less than on my older CB400 2013 model which i have already sold.

i will continue to improve with this bike before i go out and spend a little more on a touring bike, ... as said i would love a BMW as i love the smooth ride, but also VERY worried after 2-3 years would maintenance kill me with all the electronics that are on that bike.

Again, sorry for the first short post and even this one... not much in regards to answering your questions.

the heat factor on this bike is awesome!

while i was typing this, i see at least 3-4 replies from others so will stop here and read others .

Thanks for the info. Every single bit helps!

As a German guy from Munich I naturally did think of a BMW, also a GS (for touring though).

Only they are pricey here and the support is by far not as extensive as Ducati provides all around the country.

Also to be honest I am caught by the beauty produced by the Italians and apalled by the Design of the BMWs, as good as they might be. For a tourer they might be superior but for a fun bike in town I am not convinced... at this point. The excitement coming from the Hypermotard caught me quite a bit... but yes, I am open to all possibilities at this point.

EXACTLY!! In regards to BMW, Touring... i wanted a fun bike to get in and out of traffic easy so my choose was Honda vs Ducati. I decided Honda but totally get you about the Italian design. The Benelli was a let down and it is now made in China which to me it lacks the engineering you would expect.

Honda is in Chiangmai and they are opening in NakonSawan so that was my deciding factor. I was also looking at Kawa's but found them too small. They had a center in Tak but not much selection. If you are in BKK just go into Big Wing,... i wonder if you can leave there empty handed. LOL. ... unless it does not tempt you at all, which if thats the case, i think you got your answer, GO GET THAT BIG BOY Ducati

[OmegaRacer]

Stopped at a red light, I felt like I had a barbecue grill between my legs when riding the air cooled Ducati Monster.

Then, with a bike like this, you need to wear protection. On top of that, add the tropical heat to the equation.

All that heat reduces the pleasure factor for me.

Then you have the ratio of 400 slow scooters for every big bike out there. Not compatible with the traffic or numerous hazards that pop up all the time...Thailand is just not that great for big bikes.

Hmm, I have to disagree. I think Thailand is great for big bikes. You can ride all year round, compared to 6-7months in Europe. Much more freedom too. When I ride in Europe, I'm always worried about the police and hidden radar traps. If I lived closer to the mountains here, riding would be near perfect. Heat doesn't affect me much, nor the rain. Police harassment (or the fear of it) on the other hand, takes away a big chunk of fun.

Now, if you're talking about riding a big bike in Bangkok, I have to agree 100%.

Edited March 5, 2015 by OmegaRacer

[Maesotthailand]

Stopped at a red light, I felt like I had a barbecue grill between my legs when riding the air cooled Ducati Monster.

Then, with a bike like this, you need to wear protection. On top of that, add the tropical heat to the equation.

All that heat reduces the pleasure factor for me.

Then you have the ratio of 400 slow scooters for every big bike out there. Not compatible with the traffic or numerous hazards that pop up all the time...Thailand is just not that great for big bikes.

Hmm, I have to disagree. I think Thailand is great for big bikes. You can ride all year round, compared to 6-7months in Europe. Much more freedom too. When I ride in Europe, I'm always worried about the police and hidden radar traps. If I lived closer to the mountains here, riding would be near perfect. Heat doesn't affect me much, nor the rain. Police harassment (or the fear of it) on the other hand, takes away a big chunk of fun.

Now, if you're too about riding a big bike in Bangkok, I have to agree 100%.

YES Agree - Mountains are amazing here. I am in Mae Sot a lot and can drive towards UmPhang and after 15KM, there are VERY little cars on the road. The only time i hate it is 11am - 4pm on the real HOT HOT days and being right smack in the middle of town. I wear the whole 9 yards with Safety jacket, gloves, mask, helmet, and even additional pants with protection and boots if i am planning anything more than 20km. I get the hottest when i am dressing before actually hitting the road. When parking, meaning only when getting kitted up or visa versa does the heat get to me... but out on the roads, no issues. Love It!

Only thing i don't like is some don't respect motorcycles and the lane holding like they do in Europe or the states. as long as i drive with the theory in my head everyone is out to get me.. i am fine

[foodieontour]

Stopped at a red light, I felt like I had a barbecue grill between my legs when riding the air cooled Ducati Monster.

Then, with a bike like this, you need to wear protection. On top of that, add the tropical heat to the equation.

All that heat reduces the pleasure factor for me.

Then you have the ratio of 400 slow scooters for every big bike out there. Not compatible with the traffic or numerous hazards that pop up all the time...Thailand is just not that great for big bikes.

That is exactly what scares the crap out of me. I agree on protection gear and tropical heat, hence the riding time after sunset... or outside with enough air int he face.But it will we a deminished fun experience after all.I envy a little the guys in Chiang Mai who have it a litle cooler at least for half of the year or at night... together with the gorgeous surrounding of town with plenty of options to ride. Bangkok will be more challenging with that I assume.

Back again to the main question at hand: I simply do not have sufficient information on the engine heat.

Hardly any farang is mentioning this, I found only Thai riders complain about it - and that extensively with Ducati.

[Maesotthailand]

on another note, Honda would not let me test drive at one of the shops (not official Honda Big Wing, it was an grey market importer i believe). In bigwing, they had test drive units and they let me take them out for a spin. Of course not on all models but lucky for me i wanted to only test the 500 and 650. I dont like the CBR although its beautiful. The 1100cc i think it was is even nicer but as one pointed out above, you can not last more than 50KM without discomfort.

That is why i stuck to the straight up CB650F although the CBR's are lovely to look at.

I have had my Honda for about 4 weeks now. After sales is really good, got my plates in under 2 weeks. They tuned it up after 1000KM and put some awesome engine oil in that makes it run smother than ever!!

I DID NOT LIKE THE SEMI AUTO or AUTO bikes, i could imagine VERY DANGEROUS as it could swap gears while you are in a corner, not a good idea. I love the manual, keep it in Gear 3 and shoot around those mountain curves!

[gmac]

Be honest. Were you wearing flip-flops or crocs and no socks or even shorts instead of jeans or kevlar pants? Other than this I have nothing postive to add to this thread since I have never ridden either bike.

You show me how to shift with flip-flops

I wore long cargo pants (no jeans), with sneakers and short socks. Still crazy amount of heat around my ankles / calfs

I rode for 8 years shifting with flip-flops, now I'm a bit older and more sensible I ride a PCX in trainers!

[Maesotthailand]

I envy a little the guys in Chiang Mai who have it a litle cooler at least for half of the year or at night... together with the gorgeous surrounding of town with plenty of options to ride.

Back again to the main question at hand: I simply do not have sufficient information on the engine heat.

Hardly any farang is mentioning this, I found only Thai riders complain about it - and that extensively with Ducati.

1. Well i would guess Chiang Mai and Mae Sot are quite similar so from experience here,... Its only better in the mornings and evenings. At lunch, since its higher up, the sun is much much stronger and the temp is much higher. It goes way over 40c here in the summer, check out the weather for Mae Sot or some of the high attitude places from end March on, its gets REALLY hot!! The sun is just SOOO strong.

2. Engine heat. From my experience, all new models are fine, anything after 2013 should have no issue. As for comfort, i have found the Ducati to be a little to hot in traffic, the heat hits my knees, ankles and even up towards my crotch.

The Honda is MUCH better for defusing the heat away from the driver in my opinion.

[Can samui]

Love my Versy.

Easier to maintain than a Ducati and a whole lot more comfortable. Goes like snot and super stable. Easier to get touring gear if that is in your future.

Never heard a single bad word about the Versys.

[Maesotthailand]

Love my Versy.

Easier to maintain than a Ducati and a whole lot more comfortable. Goes like snot and super stable. Easier to get touring gear if that is in your future.

Never heard a single bad word about the Versys.

Hi Can Samui,

which Versy do you have? I am not too familiar but after reading your post you sparked my interest, did a google search and LIKE what i see.

[Nickymaster]

The Versys most probably produces a little less heat than the Hyper due to it's smaller engine. Both are water cooled so the heat should be ok.

If you haven't ridden a bike big for over a decade?! buy a very good cheap second hand Versys first.

The hyper's only change for the Thai market is the seat. It's lower, same as with my Multistrada when I bought it. I replaced it and I was good to go.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Nickymaster

[JonnyF]

Stopped at a red light, I felt like I had a barbecue grill between my legs when riding the air cooled Ducati Monster.

Then, with a bike like this, you need to wear protection. On top of that, add the tropical heat to the equation.

All that heat reduces the pleasure factor for me.

Then you have the ratio of 400 slow scooters for every big bike out there. Not compatible with the traffic or numerous hazards that pop up all the time...Thailand is just not that great for big bikes.

That is exactly what scares the crap out of me. I agree on protection gear and tropical heat, hence the riding time after sunset... or outside with enough air int he face.But it will we a deminished fun experience after all.I envy a little the guys in Chiang Mai who have it a litle cooler at least for half of the year or at night... together with the gorgeous surrounding of town with plenty of options to ride. Bangkok will be more challenging with that I assume.

Back again to the main question at hand: I simply do not have sufficient information on the engine heat.

Hardly any farang is mentioning this, I found only Thai riders complain about it - and that extensively with Ducati.

I've ridden a few big (100hp+) bikes in Thailand and in my opinion they all get hot, just in different places at different times.

My GSXR gets a very hot frame/tank while stopped which makes the inside of my legs and my nuts get really hot. The BMW S1000RR is also well known for this I believe it's a feature of the twin spar frame. My Ducati engine runs at the same temp as the GSXR and is cooler at standstill but sometimes (primarily at low speed) has a warm breeze coming up from under the seat - less intense than the GSXR but probably more of the time. I've heard the Kawi 650 fan blows warm air out onto the leg, and the owner of an MT-09 also mentioned that they can feel the heat from the bike in traffic.

I'd only consider this a major issue for a bike if I was going to be commuting downtown on it on a regular basis. On the open road at highway speeds the bike stays cool so it's not an issue. Personally I don't see the point in riding a big 100+hp bike for a Bangkok commute, better off with a CBR150 for that.

[Can samui]

I have a 2011 ABS Versys.

About 37,000km so far and have an aftermarket slip on exhaust, engine cage and Givi 35 hard pannier set. Extended windshield and a few other tiny goodies.

Best part for me is there is a brand new Kawasaki dealer just opened up about 5km from my house on Samui.

Parts are easier to get and cheaper than Ducati and unless you live in a major city with a Ducati shop your service trips will involve a road trip.

PM me if you need anything else.

[guzzi850m2]

I have a V650 2015 that I have done +700 km on so far.

I tried a Ducati Hyperstrada in early 2014, they send me on the way alone for a app 15 km ride. I choosed touring mode (normal mode if you will).

The V is very comfortable and fun to ride, the 69hp bike will keep you entertained for the next 2-3 years easily, it's very quick up to app +160 km/h. No heat from the engine at standstill that I have noticed. Cheap spare parts/service. I haven't tried really twisted roads on it but they should be very very good at that. The Versys 650 has a cult like status, way underestimated because of odd design on earlier models but the new 2015 looks right in my book. Enough power for most situations and that means you can ride it close to the limits sometimes and that's fun.

The Duke: Oh boy what a bike man, crazy fun to ride. Almost 2X times the power of the V650. A friend of mine has one and we go riding together sometimes and it sounds awesome when he opens it up at green lights, but there are some BUT's. One time he waited 10 days for a simple 1000 km oil change/check (Pattaya) so the bike sat in the garage and waited and waited. He only runs benzene on it, that can be hard to get sometimes. Some of the services are expensive. Complicated engine which worry me, Thailand is not the right place for that. I heard if you leave them with gasohol in the tank for +1 month the injectors have to be taken out for cleaning.

So for me as a family man I choose the Versys at 323k baht, I only ride solo and only 2-3 times a week when I fell for it, no time in the weekends where we do stuff with our boy. I can justify shelling out 10K US$ on a bike but not much more and I love my V and can highly recommend it.

OP as a newbie you should not buy a +100hp bike, you can quickly end up in big trouble, get some experience first on a less powerful bike.

My 2 cents.

[H1w4yR1da]

Be honest. Were you wearing flip-flops or crocs and no socks or even shorts instead of jeans or kevlar pants? Other than this I have nothing postive to add to this thread since I have never ridden either bike.

You show me how to shift with flip-flops

I wore long cargo pants (no jeans), with sneakers and short socks. Still crazy amount of heat around my ankles / calfs

You wore cargo pants with sneakers and short socks while riding a big bike in Bangkok?

And you're complaining about the heat?

Try wearing proper gear and get back to us and then maybe your question will be taken seriously.

[Lucky33]

I've had a couple of Ducatis, a Monster and now a Diavel, and they are fantastic motorcycles but they are all very hot. Ducatis are made to look great and go fast, I don't think that rider comfort or ease of handling enters into the engineering. I enjoy riding my Diavel out on the road but it is a killer in town. For an all around bike that you will enjoy riding I think that the Versys is the best choice.

[Briggsy]

Be honest. Were you wearing flip-flops or crocs and no socks or even shorts instead of jeans or kevlar pants? Other than this I have nothing postive to add to this thread since I have never ridden either bike.

You show me how to shift with flip-flops

I wore long cargo pants (no jeans), with sneakers and short socks. Still crazy amount of heat around my ankles / calfs

You wore cargo pants with sneakers and short socks while riding a big bike in Bangkok?

And you're complaining about the heat?

Try wearing proper gear and get back to us and then maybe your question will be taken seriously.

I think OP is talking about direct radiated heat from the engine.

CB500X has solved this problem and is a credible alternative to Versys.

[BKKBike09]

... the owner of an MT-09 also mentioned that they can feel the heat from the bike in traffic ..

That would be me. Don't notice it when you're moving but on a hot day, in bad traffic, it's noticeable when you're not moving and geared up.

But frankly I'd say a) any bike with a big engine is going to produce a lot of radiant heat when stationary and if you're wearing full gear, airflow textiles or not, then being outside in the sun in 90 degree heat is never going to feel good. I must confess to, occasionally, riding my bike in town with all the gear except a jacket (i.e. modular helmet, kevlar jeans, shorty gloves, Gaerne boots and a T-shirt). No problems with the heat then.

BTW I'd choose Hypermotard over Versys.

[foodieontour]

The Versys most probably produces a little less heat than the Hyper due to it's smaller engine. Both are water cooled so the heat should be ok.

If you haven't ridden a bike big for over a decade?! buy a very good cheap second hand Versys first.

The hyper's only change for the Thai market is the seat. It's lower, same as with my Multistrada when I bought it. I replaced it and I was good to go.

You are correct on the seat. The Motard in Thailand is sold with the seat from the Hyperstrada, a little softer, more comfort, 2 cm lower.

The changes that was communicated to me and confirmed today:

- Hyperstrada is discontinued

- Hypermotard will be adopted for Thai market with lowered suspension. That takes place with the next charge delivered after April. Means 2-3 weeks left to order a Motard in high setup.

That is for Ducati Thailand. It will be always possible to get imported version... with import tax on top.

[foodieontour]

I spent a good part of today to drive both

- Kawa Versys 650

- Ducati Hypermotard

Both ride were around the streets of that particular dealer. So no real clue, just a little more feel to it.

1. The Versys:

- has a good fit for my body height, not perfect but pretty good

- feels responsive but safe and easy accessable. Yes I see my lack of experience with a big bike in Thailand and consider myself a noob in this regard

- taktile enough but not crazy responsive

- engine not that powerful but probably enough for most situations

- sounds is a little lackluster

- as well as the whole emotional experience with that bike

- would be a rational decision I assume but a pretty good one too

- no driving modes like wet, town, toruring, sport etc.

-> the engine produces heat that I can feel at my legs/calfs but quite less than the Motard

-> the price point can convince

-> the touring option is a very "nice to have"... I crave the paniers

-> the whole maintenance & aftermarket support seems better to me... (although Ducati is huge in Bangkok)

2. The Ducati Hypermotard:

- looks great

- feels really really good in the handling

- engine is mind blowingly good (for me) and can really bring up emotions

- sound is nice too, not ridiculous but noticible different from the crowd

- the fun part even on that short testrides delivers absoluety

- seating psoition is not perfect, a little cramped for me... even with the current version

-> the heat from engine that is felt on my body parts is ridiculous hot, even on short drives

-> maintenance, insurance, price etc. is significantly more

My heart still pounds for the Ducati but the heat worries me a lot, if not too much. Maybe enough to decide against it.

As a conclusion currently I am leaning towards the Versys. All small shortcomings (especially on the emotional level) aside, it is a very well rounded package that is convincing...

I guess I'll sleep over it and make a decision tomorrow.

On a sidenote:

I did have a quick look at the Kawasaki ER6-n and it looks gorgeous (and is even cheaper). Only the seating position is probably not what I am looking for, I prefer it a littel more upright and also the hight from seat is not really working for me. Seating position is kinda cramped.

[Can samui]

Agree on the stock Versys exhaust.....lame. Quick fix as there are countless aftermarket slip ons available which give a way better sound and drop a few kilos from the stock setup.

You can also pick up a really decent used Versys for about 200,000, ride it for a while and basically sell it for the same as you bought it for once you are sure of what you want.

Good luck!

[RubberSideDown]

If you're bitching about the heat on a short test-ride, you'll really be hating it on a day-to-day basis. Most bikes have some sort of compromise that we have to decide if we can live with- it sounds like you really have a problem with the heat of the Duc, which there's no way to resolve or even lessen much- can you live with it without it ruining your enjoyment of the motorcycle? If yes, go for it- if not..l