If new Reformist govt is serious...

[GoldenTriangle]

I love how almost all the posts in the Pinned Topic thread on Chiang Mai's smoke crisis stick to the pollution count and don't mention the cause.

If the brand spanking new PM wants to do something useful, perhaps he could take a short break from his trips pressing the flesh of foreign leaders and launch a campaign to stop turning Chiang Mai into smoke-filled dump 3 months of the year. I was in Ram 3 hospital 2 days ago. The waiting room was full of children and elderly who could not breathe. They gave them paper masks. What do they get for cancer? A pat on the head?

If people are as ignorant and irresponsible as to jeopardize the health of their families and communities, perhaps they need some guidance - perhaps in the form of million baht fines for lighting fires. Mushrooms or not, ancient agricultural practices or not, ignorant traditions or not, these are nothing more than ludicrous excuses for inaction. The government's lack of initiative makes things like their mandated warnings on cigarette packs and their 'Be Happy' morality campaigns absurd.

I have heard ugly rumors fires are also lit by land owners eyeing forest and jungle for future development, that bribes are paid to certain officials to look the other way while ruinous fire are set.

Planes are diverting from Chiang Mai due to the smoke, for godsake. But as usual, it will take some horrible airline tragedy or some other gruesome death toll caused by this irresponsible behavior to move the butts of those in a position to do something about it.

At one time cannibalism was a relatively acceptable practice too, and stoning people to death. Just because something is 'ancient', doesn't make it right or require it be revered.

Sadly, however, Thais are so conditioned to accepting what authority figures, legitimate or not, say and do (or don't do), that it will be a long time before anyone makes a stink, even while their children and parents suffocate.

It's pathetic and all it's doing is driving away tourists and expats who spend much needed foreign currency here.

Oh, and perhaps the uniformed set can put some limits on that drunken, debauched defilement of a religious ritual called Song Kran. I know it's strange but I don't find anything particularly spiritual about herds of drunken fools blasting one another with filthy canal water, or roadside drunks spraying water into the faces of passing scooter riders, often causing them to crash, and then laughing heartily afterwards. Oh, how amusing! Aren't we clever!

Bye for now. I'll be back in June, well past Chiang Mai's Months of the Morons.

[PlanetX]

Why stop there... you missed drunk drivers, chinese pedestrians, cheap charlies, people that use wifi and only buy 1 drink, and so much more.

[JingerBen]

There is a rumour this year that Chiang Mai's Months of the Morons are being extended indefinitely.

Maybe you should postpone your return.

[FolkGuitar]

Some interesting facts...

2014-03-05 17:00:00 Air pollution was 145 2015-03-05 Air pollution was 60
2014-03-06 18:00:00 Air pollution was 139 2015-03-06 Air pollution is 75

Maybe it's just me, but I see a difference this year. It will be interesting to see if this continues.

Edited March 6, 2015 by FolkGuitar

[Rancid]

As already posted I lived through the smoke for almost 10 years and just accepted that was how it is.

The missus and I are back for a month, and after living in a very clean place in the West for a few years, CM it is abhorrent. We own property here but have both decided we cannot live in this again.

Add to that I enjoy getting around on a motorbike, but a trip down Mahidol soon obliterates that pleasure.

Will take a trip down to places like Kanchanaburi etc and find a cleaner more rural alternative for when we come back permanently.

Enjoyed our time in CM but wanting a more back to nature sort of retirement. Realistically I think we all know the Thais will never address the pollution issues, too many vested interests. Not like their new Chinese tourists will complain, still cleaner than China.

[nithisa78]

And here are the 10 most corrupt countries:

10. Eritrea -- 18
8. Libya -- 18
8. Uzbekistan -- 18
7. Turkmenistan -- 17
6. Iraq -- 16
5. South Sudan -- 15
4. Afghanistan -- 12
3. Sudan -- 11
1. North Korea -- 8
1. Somalia -- 8

Thailand barely made the top 100.

[ToddinChonburi]

I was watching an expat video on how it is surrounded by mountains and there is no way for the smoke to get out until the rains come. Wow really who would want to retire there? This sounds like a night mare. The air quality is bad enough down here.

[ToddinChonburi]

amazing how they do not use the grass to feed animals and properly till the fields for natural fertilizer but they have been doing this for hundreds of years, why change now.

[carter1882]

You should try Bangkok. The air quality here is fine. If we ever have fires they are promptly put out by the fire brigade. And where i live quiet with a beautiful breeze. Some people insist on trying to find "paradise" outside the capital because that is what the guidebooks say. Bless.

[friendphil]

I was watching an expat video on how it is surrounded by mountains and there is no way for the smoke to get out until the rains come. Wow really who would want to retire there? This sounds like a night mare. The air quality is bad enough down here.

Where is "down here"?

[EnglishJohn]

Why does everybody expect the PM to personally tackle every problem facing Thailand ?.

It's funny as now Thailand has a proactive leader, people are bitterly complaining that he is doing nothing to help them - whereas they didn't say a dicky bird when Poo did absolutely nothing during her term.

Don't blame the PM for the rampant corruption in this red-shirt stronghold. Blame Thaksin and just pray reforms can be implemented which allow people to elect politicians who might change it. You might need to pray hard though because I sense Prayuth is the only one who wants that.

[TheKnave]

I was watching an expat video on how it is surrounded by mountains and there is no way for the smoke to get out until the rains come. Wow really who would want to retire there? This sounds like a night mare. The air quality is bad enough down here.

Where is "down here"?

LOL

[Suradit69]

There is a rumour this year that Chiang Mai's Months of the Morons are being extended indefinitely.

Maybe you should postpone your return.

Wouldn't they have to cancel the celebrations then?

[Thailand]

Why does everybody expect the PM to personally tackle every problem facing Thailand ?.

It's funny as now Thailand has a proactive leader, people are bitterly complaining that he is doing nothing to help them - whereas they didn't say a dicky bird when Poo did absolutely nothing during her term.

Don't blame the PM for the rampant corruption in this red-shirt stronghold. Blame Thaksin and just pray reforms can be implemented which allow people to elect politicians who might change it. You might need to pray hard though because I sense Prayuth is the only one who wants that.

Dislike button?

[NoshowJones]

This is a great topic, the OP is right in everything he says, I have already said in previous posts, and will keep on saying it, that Thailand will always be a third world country because of the low mentality of the Thai people from the farmers to the well educated, to the government.

This would be a great country if it was just possible to get the Thai IQ up to that of the top western countries, if that happened, then Thailand would be way ahead of the UK, the USA etc.

[Just1Voice]

This is a great topic, the OP is right in everything he says, I have already said in previous posts, and will keep on saying it, that Thailand will always be a third world country because of the low mentality of the Thai people from the farmers to the well educated, to the government.

This would be a great country if it was just possible to get the Thai IQ up to that of the top western countries, if that happened, then Thailand would be way ahead of the UK, the USA etc.

Wasn't there a study released a few months back that said the Average Thai IQ was something like 85? They got a long way to go.

[northernjohn]

As already posted I lived through the smoke for almost 10 years and just accepted that was how it is.

The missus and I are back for a month, and after living in a very clean place in the West for a few years, CM it is abhorrent. We own property here but have both decided we cannot live in this again.

Add to that I enjoy getting around on a motorbike, but a trip down Mahidol soon obliterates that pleasure.

Will take a trip down to places like Kanchanaburi etc and find a cleaner more rural alternative for when we come back permanently.

Enjoyed our time in CM but wanting a more back to nature sort of retirement. Realistically I think we all know the Thais will never address the pollution issues, too many vested interests. Not like their new Chinese tourists will complain, still cleaner than China.

I understand where you are coming from. As I age certain things become more important to me than they were before. So far I have been lucky the smog is just a month and a half and does not really affect me. I can not understand why people who are bothered by it live here. They as you do should look for a different location. Nothing wrong with that. Chiang Mai is no longer as rural as it was. I myself am not yet unhappy by the urban sprawl and traffic. So it is still fine for me. But when it does start to bother me I too would be looking for other locations.

Kanchanaburi is a very nice place in my opinion. I might also try Cha-am however I hear it is getting over run with touristy party goers Not my cup of tea.

As for the OP he fails to realize it is not the Prime Ministers job to come into one city in Thailand and baby sit it through it's problems. The laws are already there. It is up to the province to enforce them. Sad to say they are not doing that great of a job.

Posts on Thai Visa by people who are powerless to do any thing will not help it must come from the people them selves. Send a petition to the Prime Minister and he will just laugh. He knows there is a problem but Chiang Mai is only a small part of the nation. He has more fish to fry than look over a petition that he already is well aware of the problems it covers.

It would be like sending a petition to Obama about the traffic on I 5 in Seattle. Or the traffic in any other city.

[northernjohn]

This is a great topic, the OP is right in everything he says, I have already said in previous posts, and will keep on saying it, that Thailand will always be a third world country because of the low mentality of the Thai people from the farmers to the well educated, to the government.

This would be a great country if it was just possible to get the Thai IQ up to that of the top western countries, if that happened, then Thailand would be way ahead of the UK, the USA etc.

Ya they could start involving them selves in foreign wars.

It would also become a country that in all likely hood you would not have made the choice to come to. I know I wouldn't. I have had enough of the live to make money and have possessions. I am quite happy here where it is more like enjoy life. Unless you are an expat wishing you hadn't come here. they may be poor but they seem to be able to enjoy life. If you want to see poverty with the inability to enjoy life go to most of the small communities in Burma.

Talk is cheap among expats. If they really wanted to do some thing they would get involved in the local scene. Send their petitions to the Mayor. Their dissatisfaction would be of more interest to him than the Prime Minister.

[avocadowangnamkeouw]

I am an expat,

I am writing letters in Thai and English to Government Agencies,

also co-signed by local community members and officials.

Nobody answers.

Our Community is part of a National Park as-well a Natural World Heritage.

Still our place is full of smoke of land and garbage burning from inside the park.

A government officer comes to look and tells you the wind is in the other direction, What's the problem?

Considering the fact that the Top-Down system is embedded in the Law ( A Court has no authority to change an administrative

decision, only give advice ) complaining does not help, even going to the Judge can not help .

The order to enforce the Environmental Law has to come from the Top.

So yes,

If new Reformist govt is serious... and if they love their country and the people so much.........

they have to order Environmental Law enforcement and if they are for real wanting Thailand being democratic, they have to give

the Judge the power to change Government decisions and order them to enforce the Law if a civilians asks his judgement.

[duanebigsby]

This is a great topic, the OP is right in everything he says, I have already said in previous posts, and will keep on saying it, that Thailand will always be a third world country because of the low mentality of the Thai people from the farmers to the well educated, to the government.

This would be a great country if it was just possible to get the Thai IQ up to that of the top western countries, if that happened, then Thailand would be way ahead of the UK, the USA etc.

Wasn't there a study released a few months back that said the Average Thai IQ was something like 85? They got a long way to go.

Googling IQ by nation gives a different result each time. The site I saw shows Thais at 91 Cdns/ Americans at 98-99.. both well in the normal range 90-100.

It's not intelligence Thailand lacks, it's education and laws.

Burning is cheaper than plowing under and so they do it.

[laislica]

This is a great topic, the OP is right in everything he says, I have already said in previous posts, and will keep on saying it, that Thailand will always be a third world country because of the low mentality of the Thai people from the farmers to the well educated, to the government.

This would be a great country if it was just possible to get the Thai IQ up to that of the top western countries, if that happened, then Thailand would be way ahead of the UK, the USA etc.

Ya they could start involving them selves in foreign wars.

It would also become a country that in all likely hood you would not have made the choice to come to. I know I wouldn't. I have had enough of the live to make money and have possessions. I am quite happy here where it is more like enjoy life. Unless you are an expat wishing you hadn't come here. they may be poor but they seem to be able to enjoy life. If you want to see poverty with the inability to enjoy life go to most of the small communities in Burma.

Talk is cheap among expats. If they really wanted to do some thing they would get involved in the local scene. Send their petitions to the Mayor. Their dissatisfaction would be of more interest to him than the Prime Minister.

Although I see where you are coming from and wouldn't it be nice etc.

It sounds to me like the Muslims in Europe wanting to change European law to Sharia Law!

We are Farang and should have no place in trying to change things in our host country!

It's their Country and it's Up To Them what they do.

It's Up To the Farang to know what his host country is like Before he commits to living here.

If you can't stand the heat you should not be in the kitchen.

West of Bangkok never has a smoke problem, but then it doesn't have any amenities that most Farang cannot live without.

No bars, gogo girls, massage parlours, malls selling Farang goods etc. etc.

Very hard to find English speaking Thai's here too.

Chiang Mai, Chaing Rai may have smoke problems but they are great places for Farang to settle and live well for most of the year.

We stayed there again last year on a holiday and on a couple of days one could hardly see across the street and if we lived there full time, I guess we would go to smoke free zones for holidays during the bad times up there.

The alternative is perhaps to live in more isolation and go stir crazy, (like me?)

No, we only stay in Thailand for the winter and live in South East Spain for the summer.

By the same token, if we lived full time in Europe, my wife would go stir crazy too.

Complaining will do no good. If you are not happy do something about it - it doesn't last long for goodness sake!

[laislica]

This is a great topic, the OP is right in everything he says, I have already said in previous posts, and will keep on saying it, that Thailand will always be a third world country because of the low mentality of the Thai people from the farmers to the well educated, to the government.

This would be a great country if it was just possible to get the Thai IQ up to that of the top western countries, if that happened, then Thailand would be way ahead of the UK, the USA etc.

Wasn't there a study released a few months back that said the Average Thai IQ was something like 85? They got a long way to go.

Googling IQ by nation gives a different result each time. The site I saw shows Thais at 91 Cdns/ Americans at 98-99.. both well in the normal range 90-100.

It's not intelligence Thailand lacks, it's education and laws.

Burning is cheaper than plowing under and so they do it.

Can't agree with all you said.

Thailand has too many laws, many created to "solve" a specific problem and then just left on the books.

The real problem is that there is No enforcement of meaningful Laws!

Thailand needs to remove some of these redundant laws and start enforcing the meaningful ones.

It could be argued that they have made a start with the m/c helmet law.

They publicised it nationwide on all types of media and charged meaningful fines.

In cities I guess that many more people comply than don't?

In the styks they do not comply but then I've never ever seen a policeman in the area where we live.

[Daniel Ingalls]

.........You got that right! Hit clearly on the head with a hammer. They never grew up! Look at the malls for example, who's playing with

the toys on the floor......Grown-ups! Little teddy bears clutched in their hands. I live in Chaing Mai for the past 6 years. It seems tho, most of the smoke is hovering on the slops of the mountains surround Chiang Mai. In the center of all this is seems to be clear. Its these dumb low educated farmers who are doing .....little fire here......little fire there. and I don't mean rice paddies, they are just like little boys playing with matches.....burning scrap paper, branches and any other thing burnable. In Thai I spoke to one Farmer about the

flaming leave he just started.........he looked dumbfounded, with a stupid grin on his face, turned around and threw some more leaves on the fire! But luckily......a fire water tank truck came by and doused it out. Spoke with the farmer a bit, then took off. So, they are doing what they can about the fires, but just to many idiots that start them up!

[duanebigsby]

This is a great topic, the OP is right in everything he says, I have already said in previous posts, and will keep on saying it, that Thailand will always be a third world country because of the low mentality of the Thai people from the farmers to the well educated, to the government.

This would be a great country if it was just possible to get the Thai IQ up to that of the top western countries, if that happened, then Thailand would be way ahead of the UK, the USA etc.

Wasn't there a study released a few months back that said the Average Thai IQ was something like 85? They got a long way to go.

Googling IQ by nation gives a different result each time. The site I saw shows Thais at 91 Cdns/ Americans at 98-99.. both well in the normal range 90-100.

It's not intelligence Thailand lacks, it's education and laws.

Burning is cheaper than plowing under and so they do it.

Can't agree with all you said.

Thailand has too many laws, many created to "solve" a specific problem and then just left on the books.

The real problem is that there is No enforcement of meaningful Laws!

Thailand needs to remove some of these redundant laws and start enforcing the meaningful ones.

It could be argued that they have made a start with the m/c helmet law.

They publicised it nationwide on all types of media and charged meaningful fines.

In cities I guess that many more people comply than don't?

In the styks they do not comply but then I've never ever seen a policeman in the area where we live.

Yes you've clarified perfectly what I meant to say: enforcement issues.

At my school teachers harp at the kids to wear their helmets but to no avail.

[BB24]

SSDD

[Just1Voice]

Been in Chiang Mai 7 years. We live about 18 kilometers east of the city. First couple of years here, it was bad. 80% of the land around us was rice paddies, and at times the smoke was so thick you couldn't see the front gate of the moo ban less than 300 meters away. Then the infrastructure started, and it boomed. Home Expert, Home Mall, Home Pro, major brand paint stores. Furniture stores, 5 new moo bans. Now less than 10% of the land around us is rice paddies. As a result, no where near as much smoke this time of year.

Anyone who has lived here for any length of time is well aware of the smoke problem. You either deal with it, or you move someplace else. End of story

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

This is a great topic, the OP is right in everything he says, I have already said in previous posts, and will keep on saying it, that Thailand will always be a third world country because of the low mentality of the Thai people from the farmers to the well educated, to the government.

This would be a great country if it was just possible to get the Thai IQ up to that of the top western countries, if that happened, then Thailand would be way ahead of the UK, the USA etc.

Wasn't there a study released a few months back that said the Average Thai IQ was something like 85? They got a long way to go.

According to this website its 91 and Thailand is ranked 16th. http://www.photius.com/rankings/national_iq_scores_country_ranks.html

[NoshowJones]

This is a great topic, the OP is right in everything he says, I have already said in previous posts, and will keep on saying it, that Thailand will always be a third world country because of the low mentality of the Thai people from the farmers to the well educated, to the government.

This would be a great country if it was just possible to get the Thai IQ up to that of the top western countries, if that happened, then Thailand would be way ahead of the UK, the USA etc.

Wasn't there a study released a few months back that said the Average Thai IQ was something like 85? They got a long way to go.

They sure have, it's a pity too, as the biggest majority of Thais are decent, honest people, then for a few days in April, that goes out the window with parents allowing and encouraging their offspring to throw water at vehicles and motorbikes. As you rightly say, they have a long way to go.

[FolkGuitar]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say a whole lot of people like to do a whole lot of complaining about a whole lot of situations over which they have absolutely no control. They don't now, and they never will. But while I'm out on that limb I'm willing to bet these same people will be back bitching and moaning about the very same situations next year.

If I was unhappy about a situation over which I had no control, I'd leave. No sense staying unhappy year after year after year... unless, of course, you just like to be unhappy.

[northernjohn]

This is a great topic, the OP is right in everything he says, I have already said in previous posts, and will keep on saying it, that Thailand will always be a third world country because of the low mentality of the Thai people from the farmers to the well educated, to the government.

This would be a great country if it was just possible to get the Thai IQ up to that of the top western countries, if that happened, then Thailand would be way ahead of the UK, the USA etc.

Ya they could start involving them selves in foreign wars.

It would also become a country that in all likely hood you would not have made the choice to come to. I know I wouldn't. I have had enough of the live to make money and have possessions. I am quite happy here where it is more like enjoy life. Unless you are an expat wishing you hadn't come here. they may be poor but they seem to be able to enjoy life. If you want to see poverty with the inability to enjoy life go to most of the small communities in Burma.

Talk is cheap among expats. If they really wanted to do some thing they would get involved in the local scene. Send their petitions to the Mayor. Their dissatisfaction would be of more interest to him than the Prime Minister.

Although I see where you are coming from and wouldn't it be nice etc.

It sounds to me like the Muslims in Europe wanting to change European law to Sharia Law!

We are Farang and should have no place in trying to change things in our host country!

It's their Country and it's Up To Them what they do.

It's Up To the Farang to know what his host country is like Before he commits to living here.

If you can't stand the heat you should not be in the kitchen.

West of Bangkok never has a smoke problem, but then it doesn't have any amenities that most Farang cannot live without.

No bars, gogo girls, massage parlours, malls selling Farang goods etc. etc.

Very hard to find English speaking Thai's here too.

Chiang Mai, Chaing Rai may have smoke problems but they are great places for Farang to settle and live well for most of the year.

We stayed there again last year on a holiday and on a couple of days one could hardly see across the street and if we lived there full time, I guess we would go to smoke free zones for holidays during the bad times up there.

The alternative is perhaps to live in more isolation and go stir crazy, (like me?)

No, we only stay in Thailand for the winter and live in South East Spain for the summer.

By the same token, if we lived full time in Europe, my wife would go stir crazy too.

Complaining will do no good. If you are not happy do something about it - it doesn't last long for goodness sake!

I like what you are saying with the exception of the smog here in Chiang Mai. It is only about 6 weeks that it is bad. I do believe that people trying to get the National government to come in and uphold laws that the provinces already have is going about it the wrong way.

They should approach the Municipal government who is defiantly more interested in their money than the Prime Minister is. Ask if there is some way they could help. Not sure but some thing like the tourist police set up.

Lets face it unless you are a newbie here in Thailand you know that many of the laws are there but ignored. It is up to the local authorities to uphold them not the Prime Minister of Thailand.

Just out of curiosity I wonder how many of the people who say they should uphold their laws are willing to give a traffic cop tea money?