workers, be hard or not

[seajae]

My wife manages an export company and is in charge of the workers, we both get on with them and she has been good to them over the years. The company even built houses on site for them to live in with their wives/families and charges a small fee for rent and at the same time have decided that once the cost of building has been recouped they can have them rent free for as long as they work there.

Problem is that some of them are not being honest, they have been stealing fuel etc from the trucks, they were letting their very young sons drive the tippers and dump the loads into the hopper so my wife had to come down on them about it and started having locks fitted to the fuel tanks which they then bent around to still access the fuel. She had to hire a new driver so she hired her cousins boyfriend, he is a good worker and honest and she wanted a trustworthy driver, trouble is the other drivers got upset because they wanted their friend to be hired so they started to harass the new driver.

Now they have started to sabotage his truck and it has to go to the mechanics every day with a new problem in the hope he will leave so they can keep stealing fuel(him being there has stopped them), the only ones that are able to do this are the ones living onsite as the trucks are parked just outside their homes. I have suggested that my wife gathers all the drivers and tells them that this has to stop and that if it happens again everyone that lives on site will have to move out and take their wives/families with them then if they still want to work they will have to travel to work each day from wherever they move to or get a new job,

I believe that there is more than one person involved and wouldn't be surprised if several know what is happening as several of them were stealing fuel. Trouble is I do not know if this is being too hard but it is the only way I can think of to actually make them think about it and realize what they will lose if they keep going, also it will make all the others that live onsite think twice as well plus possibly stop the one/s doing it, some other suggestions from those that run businesses here would be appreciated as Thailand is a lot different to Australia in regards to workers.

Thankyou

<post edited for layout for easier reading>

Edited March 7, 2015 by CharlieH

[DLock]

In my experience, you have to be tough, and set an example by firing one, or more, of the culprits and having them removed from the rental homes that same day. You need to show that you are not going to take this behavior with firm, decisive action.

They have shown that are repeat offenders and do not respect your wife, the rules and what you have done for them.

If you are lenient, the problems will just continue, if not get worse. They will just keep on taking advantage.

Sadly, this happens all too often and no matter how nice you are, what you give them and how you help them, a few just don't seem to appreciate it.

Note : This is not true of all staff. Most are excellent, hard working and diligent and can be trusted 100% in my experience...

[Marcel1]

I think, if they are this far already, your wife never had real authority there and they are just taking the piss.

My idea would be to fire the "leaders" doing these acts and trow them out asap that maybe sets the rest thinking.

Otherwise I'm afraid your're on a sinking ship

Edit, srry didnt read dlocks post

Edited March 7, 2015 by Marcel1

[krisb]

Sack them.

Theft is instant dismissal.

[NeverSure]

I think, if they are this far already, your wife never had real authority there and they are just taking the piss.

My idea would be to fire the "leaders" doing these acts and trow them out asap that maybe sets the rest thinking.

Otherwise I'm afraid your're on a sinking ship

Edit, srry didnt read dlocks post

That's exactly what you do. You fire the strongest personality who you think is influencing the others. You let everyone know that he could be next. You keep doing that until those who are left straighten up.

[innerspace]

If they live onsite then install cameras pointing at the cars, company property needs protecting. Have some obvious so they know you are serious and some hidden incase they get sneaky or sabotage the cams.

Video evidence and force a resignation or threaten police... will stop the issue but depending how close the sheep are to the culprits could lose the lot.

[NeverSure]

It's called making an example out of someone. You make it clear to all that you will get rid of all of them one at a time if it doesn't stop. If necessary you keep firing what you perceive to be the next strongest personality and it won't take long.

I won't bore you with all of the details of what I did when I was just 22 and I was put in charge of all of the non-official staff of a large bank and some of that staff had worked there for 30 years. They were jealous and decided they wouldn't work for me. I fired the strongest, mouthiest one right in front of everyone, shocked the rest of them and I had no more trouble. I actually gained respect and got along fine after that.

You and your wife don't have the respect of these people and you have to take it.

Agree on the cameras.

[seajae]

thanks guys, wife has tried cameras and they were either broken or they were removed, she recently fired one office worker and one of the drivers too as well as reporting him to the police. A lot of the problem is also the fact that they do not like having a female boss even though she has been the manager for 17 years, these people just cant help themselves and they think that stealing from their employer is ok and their right

[HeijoshinCool]

There is nothing lower than a well-taken care of employee, who steals and damages their employer's property. You can't reason with these types.

I'd fire them all, and start over.

EDIT: And why not hire all females?

Edited March 7, 2015 by HeijoshinCool

[NeverSure]

thanks guys, wife has tried cameras and they were either broken or they were removed, she recently fired one office worker and one of the drivers too as well as reporting him to the police. A lot of the problem is also the fact that they do not like having a female boss even though she has been the manager for 17 years, these people just cant help themselves and they think that stealing from their employer is ok and their right

I already told you of my banking experience. Now let me tell you what I was taught in a college course called "Supervision and Personnel Administration" that caused me to fire that rebellious person.

If people don't respect you, they can't like you. If people respect you, that's a type of liking you. Some supervisors bust their butts trying to get people to like them not realizing that they are losing respect. It sounds like that is what you and your wife have been doing - doing everything for them to get them to like you while losing respect.

Do you get that? You don't get any respect and these people aren't on your team as a result. You don't respect them either. None of you on either side deserves respect because you haven't either earned it, or as boss flatout demanded it.

Now, take this post as your short course in personnel administration and go fire someone the next time anyone shows a lack of respect. Let everyone know why you did.

Watch your troubles melt away.

End of.

[RandomSand]

Make them bear the cost of their own dishonesty...

Make them buy the fuel out their own pockets and they can claim it back as an expense.

If they use too much fuel (i.e claim too much) tell them they're not efficient at their job and will have to find another.

If they complain about theft of fuel; tell them to report it to the police

You'll need digital tachographs on all vehicles to properly implement this... but only to keep tabs on fuel efficacy.

Have a bullet proof written company policy on all this so they have some rules to work to and know what to expect.

Edited March 7, 2015 by RandomSand

[NeverSure]

Make them bear the cost of their own dishonesty...

Make them buy the fuel out their own pockets and they can claim it back as an expense.

If they use too much fuel (i.e claim too much) tell them they're not efficient at their job and will have to find another.

If they complain about theft of fuel; tell them to report it to the police

You'll need digital tachographs on all vehicles to properly implement this... but only to keep tabs on fuel efficacy.

Have a bullet proof written company policy on all this so they have some rules to work to and know what to expect.

With all due respect, this is why the tail is wagging the donkey. The OP is putting too much effort in already when this is a respect and discipline issue with the mentality of the employees. The employees are already causing the OP a lot of grief and extra effort to (fail to) maintain discipline.

You don't get discipline from a machine. There must be a complete attitude adjustment before anything will work. Otherwise the employees will just rebel against it including ripping out machines as they have cameras.!!

This is a respect and discipline problem. The discipline will take car of itself when respect is achieved. Respect includes knowing that no one is irreplaceable, and that the job is a privilege which must be protected by the employee.

[georgemandm]

I would sack the pricks it would not happen here in Australia and the police would be called in and change with thief it happen were i was working and the people were charge and sorry to say you are not that smart one if you put up with it , not as if you can't fine new workers in Thailand and if you are so good as you say you will have them at your front door hop it all works out for you .

[joesanunu]

thanks guys, wife has tried cameras and they were either broken or they were removed, she recently fired one office worker and one of the drivers too as well as reporting him to the police. A lot of the problem is also the fact that they do not like having a female boss even though she has been the manager for 17 years, these people just cant help themselves and they think that stealing from their employer is ok and their right

Exactly. They think it's OK. Everybody does it.

You have to accept thefts and childlike behaviour. They are going to steal and behave like 12 year olds....This is Thailand.

Fire the pack leader (and watch your back) then try to keep the thefts to a minimum.

[Soutpeel]

You have to accept thefts and childlike behaviour. They are going to steal and behave like 12 year olds....This is Thailand.

Spoken like to true person who has never run, operated or managed a thing in his life

OP, they are taking the p*ss - set an example sack a few of them, with the threat of any more sh*t the BiB will be invited down to your premises to search people, houses and p*ss tests given.

you being over generous with them, you have given a hand ie the housing sand they are trying to take your arm, you being seen as a soft touch

[Keesters]

Replace all of them with Cambodian or Burmese immigrant workers.

[joesanunu]

You have to accept thefts and childlike behaviour. They are going to steal and behave like 12 year olds....This is Thailand.

Spoken like to true person who has never run, operated or managed a thing in his life

OP, they are taking the p*ss - set an example sack a few of them, with the threat of any more sh*t the BiB will be invited down to your premises to search people, houses and p*ss tests given.

you being over generous with them, you have given a hand ie the housing sand they are trying to take your arm, you being seen as a soft touch

No. Ran my own businesses since 1975, retired early. Had 20 Thai staff. They think cheating and stealing is their birthright, just part of doing business.... It's in their DNA.

You won't stop them..just try to keep the thefts to a minimum.

All drivers steal fuel. There are roadside stations that buy it. Trucks lined up to sell their fuel at these police owned stations.

Your senior man on the job runs the graft. They are always up to something. In fact, they lose face if they do a good job & don't steal.

[Soutpeel]

You have to accept thefts and childlike behaviour. They are going to steal and behave like 12 year olds....This is Thailand.

Spoken like to true person who has never run, operated or managed a thing in his life

OP, they are taking the p*ss - set an example sack a few of them, with the threat of any more sh*t the BiB will be invited down to your premises to search people, houses and p*ss tests given.

you being over generous with them, you have given a hand ie the housing sand they are trying to take your arm, you being seen as a soft touch

No. Ran my own businesses since 1975, retired early. Had 20 Thai staff. They think cheating and stealing is their birthright, just part of doing business.... It's in their DNA.

You won't stop them..just try to keep the thefts to a minimum.

All drivers steal fuel. There are roadside stations that buy it. Trucks lined up to sell their fuel at these police owned stations.

Your senior man on the job runs the graft. They are always up to something. In fact, they lose face if they do a good job & don't steal.

Disagree, "Not want to start mine is bigger than your's argument" have nearly 600 Thai and foreign working under me, they are all well looked after, but there is also the understanding any one takes the p*ss they are out the door, no debate, no excuses and guess what in almost 10 years, 1 case of theft

a mobile phone and it was his own work "mates" who turned him in, as they didn't want people upsetting the apple cart either, and the funny thing was the culprit was a relatively new guy

so going to strongly disagree with your rather racist assertion that its "in their DNA" but its nice to see your maintaining your colonialist attitude towards the "natives"

[Bluetongue]

It's in their DNA once they figure out they can get away with something, the same for a large percentage of workers anywhere, not necessarily theft only

[theslime]

live and let live,or go to the police

[h90]

kick them out

[steven100]

I think I'd organize a weekly monday morning meeting out in the yard with everybody present.

Go through the motions of telling them how good there work has been ... bla bla bla ...

Then step onto the next topic of company theft ....

explain that fuel has gone missing and it will not be tolerated if found to be worker related...

Also explain that manipulating cameras, cutting connections or doing damage to any camera is an offence and will carry the same punishment ...

explain that it will be instant dismissal ... and a police report will be followed.

Stress this every monday with different topics , suggestions ect ...... but bring up the theft issue every time to remind them how serious it is.

And , if you do catch someone out .... instant dismissal .

I think try that for a few weeks and see what happens .... make sure all the cameras are working if possible ... maybe you need a camera on the camera ....

[samuibeachcomber]

Get rid of all of them and start again.

[daveAustin]

I would fire them all immediately and pay local police to have them charged with something. Thieves are scum. Don't lower yourself to reason with them.

[seajae]

You have to accept thefts and childlike behaviour. They are going to steal and behave like 12 year olds....This is Thailand.

Spoken like to true person who has never run, operated or managed a thing in his life

OP, they are taking the p*ss - set an example sack a few of them, with the threat of any more sh*t the BiB will be invited down to your premises to search people, houses and p*ss tests given.

you being over generous with them, you have given a hand ie the housing sand they are trying to take your arm, you being seen as a soft touch

No. Ran my own businesses since 1975, retired early. Had 20 Thai staff. They think cheating and stealing is their birthright, just part of doing business.... It's in their DNA.

You won't stop them..just try to keep the thefts to a minimum.

All drivers steal fuel. There are roadside stations that buy it. Trucks lined up to sell their fuel at these police owned stations.

Your senior man on the job runs the graft. They are always up to something. In fact, they lose face if they do a good job & don't steal.

this is pretty spot on really in describing what happens, unfortunately theft is rife due to the low wages mainly, this is why the company built the houses for them, for some reason stealing is considered part of the job by many workers but this is getting beyond that. I am trying to get my wife to do similar things we do in Australia with daily log sheets to show the hours/mileage of the vehicles daily and the amount of fuel, oil, filters etc as they are done so that the averages can be in black and white. This will show exactly who is stealing what but it isnt the thai way of doing business but she is prepared to try it. She is sure she knows the leader but she says she needs proof it is him before she fires him, it can be hard to change the way thais do things but this is true with many people

Edited March 8, 2015 by seajae

[Soutpeel]

I would fire them all immediately and pay local police to have them charged with something. Thieves are scum. Don't lower yourself to reason with them.

oh the genius found on TV.....fire people for thieving and bribe a cop to charge them with something...

New word for your concise basic English dictionary Dave.... "Hypocrite"

[stat088]

Before firing someone you should have proof of dishonesty. Google "Thai Labor Protection Act 1998".

I think you need to try again with your camera setup. Put the cameras in places where they cannot be tampered with easily.

Keep records of your staff on file detailing all wrongdoings as this can assist in firing someone in the future.

If you have proof someone is stealing drag them over the coals and get the Police involved. Take pictures of the thief with the Police and don't forget to use good finger pointing technique.

Put a few of these pictures in the office.

As the Thai's say " choke the chicken and make the monkey watch".

[seajae]

You have to accept thefts and childlike behaviour. They are going to steal and behave like 12 year olds....This is Thailand.

Spoken like to true person who has never run, operated or managed a thing in his life

OP, they are taking the p*ss - set an example sack a few of them, with the threat of any more sh*t the BiB will be invited down to your premises to search people, houses and p*ss tests given.

you being over generous with them, you have given a hand ie the housing sand they are trying to take your arm, you being seen as a soft touch

I also think she should fire a couple at least as we are sure of who the ring leader is. Yes they are taking the p*ss, I am aware of this and trying to change the way my wife looks at it. I have given her suggestions so that the theft is in black and white, also how to set up surveillance so that cameras cannot be touched(inside buildings), the lack of respect for a female boss is the big one to get over, the other bit is trying to find honest workers. Many of the workers are related so if she fires one it can have repercussions from the others, getting good workers is easier said than done. She is not scared of them even though one person that upset some of the workers was murdered recently, she just wants to be able to show proof of what they are doing so the police can step in and arrest the ones responsible, can be very touchy here

[JockPieandBeans]

2 phrases that spring to mind.

'' Never bite the hand that feeds you ''

'' Never sh!t on your own doorstep ''

Time for you to start making people homeless. No '' Ifs '' no '' buts '' Get rid.

[h90]

I think I'd organize a weekly monday morning meeting out in the yard with everybody present.

Go through the motions of telling them how good there work has been ... bla bla bla ...

Then step onto the next topic of company theft ....

explain that fuel has gone missing and it will not be tolerated if found to be worker related...

Also explain that manipulating cameras, cutting connections or doing damage to any camera is an offence and will carry the same punishment ...

explain that it will be instant dismissal ... and a police report will be followed.

Stress this every monday with different topics , suggestions ect ...... but bring up the theft issue every time to remind them how serious it is.

And , if you do catch someone out .... instant dismissal .

I think try that for a few weeks and see what happens .... make sure all the cameras are working if possible ... maybe you need a camera on the camera ....

stealing, sabotage and not accepting the boss decision isn't something that can be repaired with some talk together.....