Parents upset over ban on children riding motorbikes

[jcisco]

All those harping personal freedom over safety, since it affects you directly. All sing very different tunes when it comes to visa runners, drugs, bar girls, foreign suicides and the list goes on. Then those of you who say, oh but society picks up the tab and its a burden, i dont think they should have a choice.. blahblahhblah .. both groups Get a life. cause if you had one, you might very well of appreciated yours and others.

Edited March 16, 2015 by jcisco

[chrissables]

chrissables...I ask you to join a simple experiment: I will wear a helmet and run into a wall -head first- from 10 meters.

You do the same without a helmet and we see, who is better of afterwards, okay?!

Let me guess: you are an American and the 2nd amendment is your gospel?!

Well i am British 100%. And you?

I have no intention of running or riding into a wall or anything else.

I understand your point, but mine is to stop the cause of accidents, (as i have just done by refusing your kind offer to run into a wall!)

If a car or truck pulls in front of me you feel i should wear protection due to their inability to drive carefully?

Surely they should be punished to such a degree people will start to drive / ride with care!

But the "nanny" state tries to put the responsibility on the victim. It needs people to stand up and argue their point.

"If a car or truck pulls in front of me you feel i should wear protection due to their inability to drive carefully?"

No, you should wear a helmet to (better ) protect yourself!

There are actually laws -even in this place- which would -if followed and enforced- punish those with little, less or inadequat driving abilities.

Drunk drivers, drivers who speed...you name it!

The "nanny state" is punishing them.

And they punish you, for putting yourself at risk and others from having to pay for your medical- care, when you drool all over yourself, while expensive machines keep you fed and breathing!

Well obviously the nanny state has got to you!

I live in Thailand, this is not a nanny state.

I will get no free medical care. If in the UK yes, BUT we pay for it ahead of time, so in fact it is not "free".

You argue your point with such stupidity, if you think a person should be forced (by law) to protect themselves from other people's (law breaking) activities!

A government should educate and PREVENT the causes of accidents.

[seancbk]

Heres a small % of accidents. Theres even one showing a non secured chin strap helmet rolling away from the users head.

Just watched all of it. Of the crashes with motorbikes involved, 6 were the cars fault, 6 the bike riders fault and the 13th crash i could not see who went through the red light.

Not really sure what this means, but for me being forced to wear a helmet when (from this video) 50% of accidents are caused by other vehicles is a bit strange.

Stopping the cause of the accidents would be a far more productive way to go.

100% agree that stopping the accidents is a priority. This requires extensive education and a change in mindset.

However, irrespective of that, if you are involved in an accident on a bike and your head is fully protected the reduction in brain injury is significant.

Helmets don't stop accidents, nor do they stop horrific injuries to the body/arms/legs, what they DO is minimise (not stop) severe head trauma.

In a motorcycle accident you are very likely to suffer injury, why compound that by leaving your head exposed so that you almost guarantee brain injury?

On a related note - what I said about a change in mindset applies doubly to the wearing of good helmets. If the young Thais think that they are indestructible because they have a helmet on they are probable *more* likely to ride like idiots.

In some countries they used to display wrecked cars as a warning to motorists. Perhaps here they should simply build a pile of wrecked bikes with a large sign listing the names and ages of the dead and injured with a running total. As the pile gets bigger maybe, just maybe the population might start to take notice. Add in a quick report at the end of the TV news outlining the days deaths and video showing the wrecks of the day being added to the pile.

[DM07]

chrissables...I ask you to join a simple experiment: I will wear a helmet and run into a wall -head first- from 10 meters.

You do the same without a helmet and we see, who is better of afterwards, okay?!

Let me guess: you are an American and the 2nd amendment is your gospel?!

Well i am British 100%. And you?

I have no intention of running or riding into a wall or anything else.

I understand your point, but mine is to stop the cause of accidents, (as i have just done by refusing your kind offer to run into a wall!)

If a car or truck pulls in front of me you feel i should wear protection due to their inability to drive carefully?

Surely they should be punished to such a degree people will start to drive / ride with care!

But the "nanny" state tries to put the responsibility on the victim. It needs people to stand up and argue their point.

"If a car or truck pulls in front of me you feel i should wear protection due to their inability to drive carefully?"

No, you should wear a helmet to (better ) protect yourself!

There are actually laws -even in this place- which would -if followed and enforced- punish those with little, less or inadequat driving abilities.

Drunk drivers, drivers who speed...you name it!

The "nanny state" is punishing them.

And they punish you, for putting yourself at risk and others from having to pay for your medical- care, when you drool all over yourself, while expensive machines keep you fed and breathing!

Well obviously the nanny state has got to you!

I live in Thailand, this is not a nanny state.

I will get no free medical care. If in the UK yes, BUT we pay for it ahead of time, so in fact it is not "free".

You argue your point with such stupidity, if you think a person should be forced (by law) to protect themselves from other people's (law breaking) activities!

A government should educate and PREVENT the causes of accidents.

I might argue with stupidity, but at least I can read...something that you are obviously not able to do.

Anyways: live free and easy, don't wear a helmet and also don't make your children wear one!

[mercman24]

WOW 304 Posts on this topic, if these so called "POOR" people can afford to buy a scooter and a mobile phone, they can afford to buy a helmet,, end of

[rametindallas]

Michael Schumacher was too, did it help him or prevent the accident?

And if he had not been wearing a crash helmet he would have almost certainly died.

According to Mirror, Michael's family is planning to build him a £10 million hospital room in their home for his continued treatment and recovery. But the home care for Michael is already straining the family's finances and Corina has no other choice but to sell the family's Norwegian holiday home to help finance the said hospital room

Read more: http://www.christiantoday.com/article/michael.schumacher.health.condition.update.f1.boss.bernie.ecclestone.does.not.have.any.update/49903.htm#ixzz3UTufTCB2

Maybe it would have been a mercy if he had.

Little bit off topic but.

Michael may well still pull through

Time is a big healer, lets hope .

Michael Schumacher's home care costs $3 million per year. That is not something us mere mortals could expect. God's Will, Fate, Karma, Luck, etc,; call it what you will, but when it's your time, a helmet won't save you. BTW, I won't ride around the parking lot without my full-face helmet, high-top boots, long pants, jacket, gloves, and paid-up insurance; it still doesn't mean a big truck can't take me out. I would suggest that every passenger on a MC do the same. If I were in charge of the Thai government, I would begin a campaign to educate the populace on the benefits of safe driving and safety apparel. As for the number of passengers, those bikes with many youngsters are generally going at slow speeds and then the use of proper safety apparel would prevent most injuries/deaths. As Thailand becomes more wealthy, the government can afford to dictate to the populace how they spend their limited funds. Right now, many who can afford a cheap family motorbike can barely afford the fuel; especially those with many mouths to feed. As other posters have pointed out, the police are so corrupt that this would likely just turn into another revenue stream for them. An education program pointing out a positive message of the benefits to be gained is a lot more effective than another prohibition that will be ignored (leading to more disrespect for the law) and my experience with Thai people tells me they don't like to be told 'no'.

[Basil B]

Professional racing car drivers wear helmets, professional motorcycle drivers wear helmets, professional bicycle racers wear helmets, professional jockeys and show jumping riders wear them, professional snowboarders wear them, professional skateboarders wear them, professional BMX riders wear them. Can they all be wrong? Helmets make sense.

Michael Schumacher was too, did it help him or prevent the accident?

And if he had not been wearing a crash helmet he would have almost certainly died.

According to Mirror, Michael's family is planning to build him a £10 million hospital room in their home for his continued treatment and recovery. But the home care for Michael is already straining the family's finances and Corina has no other choice but to sell the family's Norwegian holiday home to help finance the said hospital room

Read more: http://www.christiantoday.com/article/michael.schumacher.health.condition.update.f1.boss.bernie.ecclestone.does.not.have.any.update/49903.htm#ixzz3UTufTCB2

Maybe it would have been a mercy if he had.

You make it sound like they would rather he died...

All that money going down the pan to keep him alive, the guy earned millions in his career where has it all gone.

Fact is governments, health services, charities and the such like are spending billions of dollars annually to keep people alive and to offer some sort of quality of life to people who did not wear crash helmets while riding bikes none more so than Thailand.

[Tomtomtom69]

Heres a small % of accidents. Theres even one showing a non secured chin strap helmet rolling away from the users head.

Just watched all of it. Of the crashes with motorbikes involved, 6 were the cars fault, 6 the bike riders fault and the 13th crash i could not see who went through the red light.

Not really sure what this means, but for me being forced to wear a helmet when (from this video) 50% of accidents are caused by other vehicles is a bit strange.

Stopping the cause of the accidents would be a far more productive way to go.

100% agree that stopping the accidents is a priority. This requires extensive education and a change in mindset.

However, irrespective of that, if you are involved in an accident on a bike and your head is fully protected the reduction in brain injury is significant.

Helmets don't stop accidents, nor do they stop horrific injuries to the body/arms/legs, what they DO is minimise (not stop) severe head trauma.

In a motorcycle accident you are very likely to suffer injury, why compound that by leaving your head exposed so that you almost guarantee brain injury?

On a related note - what I said about a change in mindset applies doubly to the wearing of good helmets. If the young Thais think that they are indestructible because they have a helmet on they are probable *more* likely to ride like idiots.

In some countries they used to display wrecked cars as a warning to motorists. Perhaps here they should simply build a pile of wrecked bikes with a large sign listing the names and ages of the dead and injured with a running total. As the pile gets bigger maybe, just maybe the population might start to take notice. Add in a quick report at the end of the TV news outlining the days deaths and video showing the wrecks of the day being added to the pile.

My gosh, what a bunch of f***ing morons some of the drivers/riders on this video. The guy who just crosses the level crossing and gets hit by a train. Sad, but stupid is as stupid does. His own fault. Looks like nobody even noticed because all the cars waiting behind the barrier eventually drove on their merry way after the train passed and the barrier was lifted.

The last selfish jackass driving the black Vios who spun out of control near Bang Pa-in, Ayuttaya, what a selfish moron. No wonder he crashed and can only count himself as extremely lucky that he didn't die or suffer a worse fate.

[Basil B]

<<<SNIP>>>

Michael Schumacher's home care costs $3 million per year.,,

For the average person the cost of care would be far less, it is like comparing the cost of hotel rooms from less than 10$ a night in a backpackers hostel to the 60,000$ a night at the President Wilson Hotel in Geneva.

P.S.

The remainder of your post does make a lot of sense.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Basil B

[Keesters]

Professional racing car drivers wear helmets, professional motorcycle drivers wear helmets, professional bicycle racers wear helmets, professional jockeys and show jumping riders wear them, professional snowboarders wear them, professional skateboarders wear them, professional BMX riders wear them. Can they all be wrong? Helmets make sense.

Michael Schumacher was too, did it help him or prevent the accident?

No one has said the helmets PREVENT accidents. Anyone who does so must be out of their mind. Equally nobody has said that wearing a helmet WOULD SAVE your life in the event of an accident. It depends on the accident.

Michael Schumacher had the sense to wear a helmet but was unfortunate in that in his accident it was not enough.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Keesters

[thailand49]

We have been through this before and before means years and years and years. We can discuss and talk about what the problem is here in Thailand.

The only problem is here is another useless suggestion made by the same people running the place. It is easy to bring a problem what is not easy is they have no intend in doing anything if this wasn't true we would not be talking about the problem year after year. They are number two right now but this story regarding families is not the problem here with the Thais in Thailand. This is not rocket science the high number of accidents are not from families riding 3 or 4 going to school or the market!

Fixing the problem you first have to recognize it first which officials don't because they way they complain about others is the way they themselves actually drive. Fixing the problem would mean asking for outside help, and doing so Thai way means they are stupid and being stupid means they lose face. And last, until the rid corruption nothing is going to be done! period!

[Ace of Pop]

Don't tell me show me. educate not legislate

[Ghostnigel]

Look at the pic!

Long as dad's head protected!

Its the law, the driver has to wear one....

[Ghostnigel]

In many parts of the country there is no other way for parents to get their kids anywhere, school, doctor wherever other than to use their only form of transport their motorbike. There are no school buses or public transport in many places so there is no alternative other than walking long distances.

Rather than a ban make helmets for kids easily available and cheap, even free in some poor areas to poor parents.

How many children are killed on bikes when with their parents ? I would suspect few as parents would be more careful with kids aboard.

Most of the deaths and injuries on bikes would be from those who race around, no helmets, no license.

More and better policing rather than bans and stickers.

What do you mean with this crap ? Licence... Have the licence ever prevented an accident ? Have Thai parents ever been careful about their kids ? All Thais should been banned for driving any vehicle until they learned how to handle it and how to behave in traffic. Ask any Thai what the road markings means. I bet 99% of them think its for decoration. Ask any Thai which side of the road they should drive. I bet 100% of the do not know. Ask any Thai how many passenger are allowed in a 5 seat car. Even the police do not know. up country, totally, because of the corruption. Me me me and me.

Not me, i love this country how it is....not perfect, but better than a nanny state anyday....old adage, if you don't like it, do one!

[thailand49]

Don't tell me show me. educate not legislate

??

[willyumiii]

If this law is implemented,

it will never be enforced.

This is Thailand.

Subject closed.

[laislica]

I know it is difficult to put yourself in the place of those who struggle to make ends meet but there are dangers everywhere and for many, as evidenced by the number of children passengers on motorbikes, it is the only practical form of transport for them. Since Thais are Buddhist, they believe that if they or their child is injured/killed, it is Karma. In Texas, it is not required for adults on motorcycles to wear helmets. People are also allowed to ride in the back of a pick-up truck with no seat belts. It's called 'personal freedom'. I know many of you who grew up with 'nanny state' governments are horrified at the thought of someone having the choice of a less-safe option, but Nanny States are expensive; both in compliance and enforcement. In time, if the political thieving can be minimized, Thailand will grow more prosperous and can afford to force its citizens into cars. Until then, try to put yourself in the place of poor people whose options are limited by their income.

Pennsylvania, U.S.A. repealed it's helmet laws and Hawaii, U.S.A. never had them.

How much "safety rhetoric" has come from manufactures/lobbyists vs real research and statistics? I've seen reports (years ago) that a helmet being worn can cause death. Now that's interesting eh?

Talk about comparing apples and oranges! The number of motorcycle riders in PA and HI compared to those in Thailand! We are talking apples and watermelons here! Law enforcement in PA and HI compared to Thailand. Drunk driving in PA and HI compared to Thailand. The sheer number of deaths from motorcycles in PA and HI versus Thailand!

Gotta say, you picked a real s*@t example to make your rather ambiguous case.

Do you REALLY believe that wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle here in Thailand is more dangerous than NOT wearing one???

NO, it is NOT interesting, it's absurd!

There are many studies that show that helmet laws save lives.

Here's one in a neighbouring Asean Country.

Abstract

The objectives of this research are to determine the effect of helmet laws on fatalities associated with motor cycle accidents in Peninsular Malaysia. The prevalence of accidents and deaths occurring in the 10 groups of states of the Peninsula between 1973 and 1979 is analyzed. Differences in rates, especially the deaths/accidents, from before to after the introduction of the helmet law are emphasized. The rates accidents/1000 registrations and deaths/10,000 registrations decreased in almost all of the states after the law was introduced. There was not a uniform reduction in the rate of deaths/100 accidents after introduction of the law in individual states. However, a weighted linear regression shows that the effect of the introduction of the helmet law on deaths/accidents was significant. An odds ratio of 0.70 is the estimated risk of deaths associated with motorcycle accident after introduction of the helmet law compared with no helmet law. The 30 per cent estimated reduction in fatalities in Malaysia is similar in magnitude to that reported in the U.S.A. It is estimated that in 1979 the number of fatalities in Peninsular Malaysia was about 140 lower than could be expected without the helmet law.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0001457584900095