'Two-thirds of MPs must back charter amendment'

[Lite Beer]

'Two-thirds of MPs must back charter amendment'
THE SUNDAY NATION

BANGKOK: -- THE NEW constitution should only be amended if two-thirds of MPs vote in favour of an amendment in order to make altering the charter harder, said Deputy Prime Minister Wissanu Krea-ngam yesterday.

A charter that can be amended too easily would lead to political conflicts, explained Wissanu.

The deputy premier said some groups were trying to meet with him to discuss issues under the new charter that they disagreed with and he was willing to meet and listen to all of them or facilitate a meeting with charter drafters.

Wissanu added, however, that in the end the Constitution Drafting Committee would have the final say on the charter, adding that even CDC members disagreed on certain issues.

Wissanu said he had heard through the media that the Election Commission, whose role and responsibilities would be reduced under the new charter, was one of the groups that wanted to meet with him but he declined to confirm that or confirm the names of the other groups.

Asked by reporters about polls that pointed to public disapproval regarding the main elements of the new charter, Wissanu said people should wait and consider the results from other polls as well. On the criticism that the new charter would escalate political conflicts, Wissanu said he had no idea about that but thought it unlikely.

He added that it was impossible to draft a constitution that satisfied everyone.

Wissanu also urged those who criticised the new electoral system, adapted from the German system, not to call it a German system, adding that if the system was to the satisfaction of society, it should be adapted to suit the local context.

Meanwhile, former Pheu Thai MP for Chiang Rai Samart Kaewmeechai warned that those drafting the charter should be held responsible if the electoral system, which he described as confusing, led to political chaos.

Samart predicted that confusion would reign as political parties and political groups could nominate candidates, leading to many wasted ballot papers.

The former MP added that the new rule, which does not require MPs to follow the party line, would paralyse a government and could eventually lead to a future military coup.

In a related development, the CDC has announced that Microsoft (Thailand) will produce a song, free of charge, promoting the sense of ownership for the new constitution and disseminate it to the public.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Two-thirds-of-MPs-must-back-charter-amendment-30256040.html

-- The Nation 2015-03-15

[jdinasia]

Samart does not portray the electorate as very smart.

There is some beauty in the new constitution when it allows MP's to not have to vote the party line.

[tx22cb]

"In a related development, the CDC has announced that Microsoft (Thailand) will produce a song, free of charge, promoting the sense of ownership for the new constitution and disseminate it to the public."

Why on earth is Microsoft doing this? They could better spend their time/money on improving their products and services.

On the bright side, this new song is going to be the first-ever Microsoft product that no-one will want to download illegally.

[halloween]

So the PTP MP's position is that the party (that would be Thaksin) decides a policy, and the party MPs have to vote for it, and collect their bribe cheques at the end of the month.

Even if that policy has negative effects on those he supposedly represents?

How is that any more democratic than the current government?

[smedly]

Meanwhile, former Pheu Thai MP for Chiang Rai Samart Kaewmeechai warned that those drafting the charter should be held responsible if the electoral system, which he described as confusing, led to political chaos.

Samart predicted that confusion would reign as political parties and political groups could nominate candidates, leading to many wasted ballot papers.

The former MP added that the new rule, which does not require MPs to follow the party line, would paralyse a government and could eventually lead to a future military coup. ................absolute nonsense - your abusing days are over

This is just too funny, if this rule had been in place two years ago there would have been no attempts at pushing through any of the shin amendments and PTP would probably still be in government - well maybe not because of the rice scam.

What this boils down to is that the majority party sitting in government will need approval from the minority opposition before charter amendments are even dreamed up taking the one sided agenda off the table and providing a better representation of the voting public - no more amnesty bills and senate destruction by a power abusing PTP

and may I also add - someone is reading my posts here lol because I suggested this very idea from a long time ago

This one single policy will change Thai politics for ever - for the good

[JimMagee]

Are not the MPs all appointed by the PM? It seems that so far, everything the PM wants has been passed with little descent. I don't think they'll have much issue with getting a two-thirds vote. But, I'm very concerned that the new charter is the product of the PM rather than a product of the Thai people. Who appointed the PM? - The MPs who were appointed by him before he was PM. Who gave Gen Prayut the authority to over throw the government in the first place? Perhaps the new charter is a product of a group of people who are controlled by the same person that gave the Gen commanding authority.

Perhaps Mickey Mouse is still in Thailand, masquerading as an innocent bystander.

[Srikcir]

"THE NEW constitution should only be amended if two-thirds of MPs vote in favour of an amendment in order to make altering the charter harder"

NOT Sufficient.

The two-thirds of MPs vote in favor of an amendment is fine to trigger an amendment process. But to prevent government conflict of interest and political collusion, the ultimate approval of any amendment should come from the Thai electorate.

So while a super majority of the MP's favors the change, it should then be put to the public in a referendum and also require two-thirds vote in favor of the change (the 2007 Constitution received only 51% public approval). Even after the point of public approval, the change can still be challenged in the Constitutional Court. That final step assures a check and balance to protect the minority rights and liberties.

[lucky11]

So the PTP MP's position is that the party (that would be Thaksin) decides a policy, and the party MPs have to vote for it, and collect their bribe cheques at the end of the month.

Even if that policy has negative effects on those he supposedly represents?

How is that any more democratic than the current government?

Excellent point well made!!!

Seems more like a dictatorship to me whereby the dictator (Thaksin) has bought peoples votes to achieve whatever he wants under the false umbrella of democracy.

At least the General is listening to what the people and relevant bodies have to say about the make up of the constitution (regards what goes into it) and he is clearly prepared to change things if they have valid points or better proposals - a form of democracy between intelligent people that are qualified in what they are talking about!! Surely this is better than allowing a crook to do whatever he wants to enrich himself at others expense in exploiting there lack of understanding of matters that allow him to get away with it ie: abusing the power that was granted under false pretences with his notorious populist policies that have cost Thailand dearly.

[FangFerang]

This is a good idea.....a supermajority makes for stability.....but

2/3 of MPs will be Prayuth-appointed yellow stooges, Prayuth himself being an appointed yellow stooge, all of whom want the poor to be slaves.

[Orac]

If the new constitution was subjected to a referendum at where approval of 2/3rds of the electorate was needed for it to be accepted then it would be quite reasonable to expect a similar ratio of the peoples representatives to be needed for any changes to it. If, however, the new constitution lacks that approval then setting the bar so high for any changes to it could lead to problems further down the line.

[Chris Lawrence]

They have to have reports like this. But all MP's are picked by the military? It’s a no brainer.

What they will be voting on is greater power be given to non-elected bodies to control elected representatives. This is all done while all past elected representatives are being witch hunted for impeachment. So the military appointed 'democrats' will have to do nothing to pick up a pay check as an MP. This will also ensure their wives, children, aunties, uncles, father/mother-in-laws, nephews, nieces, and the drovers dog get employed as aids to the MPs, ensuring 1 and maybe 3-4 extra pay packets are picked up.

The draft charter is being designed to allow military and conservative control of a pseudo electoral system in the future. The iron grip over political policies is designed to freeze the status quo and remove any electoral choice; all in the interests of the conservative elites.

[mango66]

look like some posters still want teh totally power and constitution driven ba Thaksin and jatuporn !

A real democratic understanding from them !!

[EnglishJohn]

Oh dear red-shirts with little brains.

The point of this rule is NOT for the new constitution, it is for future amendments and is designed to prevent a party using their parliamentary majority from changing the charter for their own benefit.

Just like Pheu-Thai tried to do.

[LivinLOS]

Bangkok post put up a new piece today showing that 84% of the political class are against pryuths current plans and policies..

So he gets to make up the rules with just 16% approval.. And the rules cant be changes without 66% approval..

Sounds legit..

[Daniel Ingalls]

......How about this......in the new Charter why not put in, at the very top!................".It will be forbidden for any Military General to take up Arms with the intent to

over throw elected government officials. Doing so will be considered a treasonable act, punishable by execution. Any followers of such over throw schemes will themselves be considered a treasonable act, and will be dealt with execution. PM's will swear in all top level Military personal to up hold the law of the land, and will faithfully execute his/her duties according to the law as proscribe by the Prime Minister of Thailand. Any and all infractions against the Office of the PM will not be tolerated."

[smedly]

This is a good idea.....a supermajority makes for stability.....but

2/3 of MPs will be Prayuth-appointed yellow stooges, Prayuth himself being an appointed yellow stooge, all of whom want the poor to be slaves.

what on earth are you talking about

nobody is appointing anyone, there will be a general election and a government formed - these rules will apply when the new charter is enacted and apply to all future governments

I would also make this clause in the charter unchangeable no matter what, in case any future government tries to amend it, as I see it it would not be something any MP would be in favour of no matter what political affiliation as it dilutes their ability to make changes were they would have to rely on opposition approval in most cases

I see it as a critical element to put and end to power abuse and influence once and for all

[phil2407]

The former MP added that the new rule, which does not require MPs to follow the party line, would paralyse a government and could eventually lead to a future military coup.

And in circles again - just pay me more money I might do - if not <deleted> off

[Nuddy]

Pretty standard stuff I reckon

Constitution changes usually require at least two thirds majority even in Apex and Rotary clubs, football clubs, bingo associations and so on.

I remain amazed that any thinking person would expect otherwise.

It makes no difference who appointed them. If the vote is 2/3rds then thats it. Done and dusted. No point whining about it. This is how it is and how it will be.

Regards

[djjamie]

This is a good idea.....a supermajority makes for stability.....but

2/3 of MPs will be Prayuth-appointed yellow stooges, Prayuth himself being an appointed yellow stooge, all of whom want the poor to be slaves.

Prayut has done more for the poor than the PTP ever did.

He paid them.

[MisterBig]

This is a good idea.....a supermajority makes for stability.....but

2/3 of MPs will be Prayuth-appointed yellow stooges, Prayuth himself being an appointed yellow stooge, all of whom want the poor to be slaves.

Prayut has done more for the poor than the PTP ever did.

He paid them.

You don't understand the current situation - Prayuth is opposed to the poor having any say in the future of Thailand, this is why he is backing this regressive and undemocratic constitution currently being drafted. If you want to be taken seriously, at least get the basic facts right.

[MisterBig]

Pretty standard stuff I reckon

Constitution changes usually require at least two thirds majority even in Apex and Rotary clubs, football clubs, bingo associations and so on.

I remain amazed that any thinking person would expect otherwise.

It makes no difference who appointed them. If the vote is 2/3rds then thats it. Done and dusted. No point whining about it. This is how it is and how it will be.

Regards

Not standard at all. Firstly Apex and Rotary, football clubs, bingo associations and so on don't start out with having a corrupted nonsense constitution forced upon them without the opportunity to have any input or say in its acceptance. Secondly when you take into account the number of appointed coup stooges that will sit in Parliament under this constitution it becomes apparent that there will never be any amendments that those behind the coup don't want (such as having an elected senate)

You round off your statement with an even bigger load of nonsense than you began it with - If it makes no difference whoo appointed them, then why not let Thaksin appoint his stooges and see what happens then.

[MisterBig]

This is a good idea.....a supermajority makes for stability.....but

2/3 of MPs will be Prayuth-appointed yellow stooges, Prayuth himself being an appointed yellow stooge, all of whom want the poor to be slaves.

what on earth are you talking about

nobody is appointing anyone, there will be a general election and a government formed - these rules will apply when the new charter is enacted and apply to all future governments

I would also make this clause in the charter unchangeable no matter what, in case any future government tries to amend it, as I see it it would not be something any MP would be in favour of no matter what political affiliation as it dilutes their ability to make changes were they would have to rely on opposition approval in most cases

I see it as a critical element to put and end to power abuse and influence once and for all

4,297 posts and you think "nobody is appointing anyone"

[gerry1011]

Whatever they do, the majority of people will still vote for PT as soon as there is an election... none of these "reforms" can change it.

[MisterBig]

Whatever they do, the majority of people will still vote for PT as soon as there is an election... none of these "reforms" can change it.

If there were ever to be a reform that allowed Thais to vote in the electorate they actually reside in as opposed to their "house book" the Democrat vote in Bangkok would be swamped. PTP would pick up an extra 30 - 40 seats in Bangkok and the Demcorats would be reduced to nothing more than a Mickey mouse club. The more a system reflects the will of the people the greater the margin of PTP victories - thus the current constitutional contortions being undertaken to prevent this from occurring.

[rubl]

"In a related development, the CDC has announced that Microsoft (Thailand) will produce a song, free of charge, promoting the sense of ownership for the new constitution and disseminate it to the public."

Why on earth is Microsoft doing this? They could better spend their time/money on improving their products and services.

On the bright side, this new song is going to be the first-ever Microsoft product that no-one will want to download illegally.

I hate to disappoint you, but I fear this song will be downloadable free of charge even if the Thai government still has to add the video clip to it. Next mobile phone ring tones will become available

[rubl]

Are not the MPs all appointed by the PM? It seems that so far, everything the PM wants has been passed with little descent. I don't think they'll have much issue with getting a two-thirds vote. But, I'm very concerned that the new charter is the product of the PM rather than a product of the Thai people. Who appointed the PM? - The MPs who were appointed by him before he was PM. Who gave Gen Prayut the authority to over throw the government in the first place? Perhaps the new charter is a product of a group of people who are controlled by the same person that gave the Gen commanding authority.

Perhaps Mickey Mouse is still in Thailand, masquerading as an innocent bystander.

The charter will come into law and rule the new general election, new MPs, Senate, etc., etc.

BTW if a charter amendment is deemed so important it should be no problem to get a two-third majority in parliament. The charter is not about politics.

[heybruce]

"Asked by reporters about polls that pointed to public disapproval regarding the main elements of the new charter, Wissanu said people should wait and consider the results from other polls as well."

My god, he was accidentally honest!

He didn't like the results of the last poll, so he's going to have a poll that gives different results. And some people wonder why I don't trust polls taken in Thailand.

[heybruce]

So the PTP MP's position is that the party (that would be Thaksin) decides a policy, and the party MPs have to vote for it, and collect their bribe cheques at the end of the month.

Even if that policy has negative effects on those he supposedly represents?

How is that any more democratic than the current government?

Excellent point well made!!!

Seems more like a dictatorship to me whereby the dictator (Thaksin) has bought peoples votes to achieve whatever he wants under the false umbrella of democracy.

At least the General is listening to what the people and relevant bodies have to say about the make up of the constitution (regards what goes into it) and he is clearly prepared to change things if they have valid points or better proposals - a form of democracy between intelligent people that are qualified in what they are talking about!! Surely this is better than allowing a crook to do whatever he wants to enrich himself at others expense in exploiting there lack of understanding of matters that allow him to get away with it ie: abusing the power that was granted under false pretences with his notorious populist policies that have cost Thailand dearly.

That didn't take long, already off-topic with the old "Thaksin bought the election" nonsense. So that of course makes the dict.... uh, current government ok.

[halloween]

Bangkok post put up a new piece today showing that 84% of the political class are against pryuths current plans and policies..

So he gets to make up the rules with just 16% approval.. And the rules cant be changes without 66% approval..

Sounds legit..

What is a political class, and who is in it? If 84% of PTP and Democrat politicians are against it, the chances are it might be democratic.

[LivinLOS]

what on earth are you talking about

nobody is appointing anyone, there will be a general election and a government formed - these rules will apply when the new charter is enacted and apply to all future governments

Elected MPs.. With an unelected senate.. and the suggestion of an unelected 120 man council who can command the MPs and senate on what they must do.

Sounds legit..