Ukraine conflict: Putin 'was ready for nuclear alert'

[webfact]

Putin: Russia prepared raising nuclear readiness over Crimea
JIM HEINTZ, Associated Press

MOSCOW (AP) — Russia was ready to bring its nuclear weapons into a state of alert during last year's tensions over the Crimean Peninsula and the overthrow of Ukraine's president, President Vladimir Putin said in remarks aired on Sunday.

Putin also expanded on a previous admission that the well-armed forces in unmarked uniforms who took control of Ukrainian military facilities in Crimea were Russian soldiers.

Putin's comments, in a documentary being shown on state TV, highlight the extent to which alarm spread in Russia in the weeks following Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych's ouster in February 2014 after months of street protests that turned increasingly violent.

The documentary comes as speculation swirls about Putin's 10-day absence from public view. On Monday, he will meet with the president of Kyrgyzstan in an event covered by the news media, which would be his first appearance before journalists since March 5.

After Yanukovych fled Kiev, eventually surfacing in Russia, separatist sentiment soared in Crimea, the Black Sea peninsula dominated by ethnic Russians.

Russian forces took control of Ukrainian military facilities on the peninsula and a referendum on secession was hastily called. The referendum, which was widely denounced in the West as illegitimate, reportedly brought overwhelming support for secession. Russia annexed Crimea on March 19, 2014.

In the documentary, which marks a year since the referendum, Putin says of the nuclear preparedness, "We were ready to do this ... (Crimea) is our historical territory. Russian people live there. They were in danger. We cannot abandon them."

The comments were reported on the state broadcaster's website after its transmission in the Russian Far East and before it appeared on the air in Moscow.

Putin said his plans for a Crimean operation started after Yanukovych fled.

"We never thought about severing Crimea from Ukraine until the moment that these events began, the government overthrow," he said, repeating Russia's contention that Yanukovych was the victim of a coup.

He said he called for a "closed opinion poll" of sentiments among Crimeans about whether to remain in Ukraine. He didn't give details as to how this survey was conducted, but said "it became clear that 75 percent of the general population desired to join Russia."

Russia initially denied that the unmarked forces who took control in Crimea were Russian, but Putin later admitted they were. In the Sunday documentary, he said he ordered the defense ministry to deploy military intelligence special forces, marines and paratroopers "under the cover of strengthening the protection of our military facilities."

Russia's Black Sea Fleet is based in Crimea; it retained the bases after the collapse of the Soviet Union under an agreement with Ukraine.

Putin claimed in the documentary that the number of Russian forces in Crimea never exceeded the 20,000 authorized under the agreement on basing the Black Sea Fleet there.

Putin also said Russian forces helped Yanukovych escape to Russia.

After fleeing the capital Kiev, Yanukovych made one appearance in Kharkov, then disappeared for several days. Reports at the time said he and his security entourage went on a desperate journey through the eastern parts of the country and down to Crimea, looking for safety. Putin's retelling appeared to confirm those reports.

He said Russian security forces had tried to keep contact with Yanukovych as he moved through Ukraine and eventually "we brought him to Russian territory."

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-03-16

[lovetotravel]

Well, straight from the source! Can't blame the west for trying to escalate this into a full war. And he's even admitted he lied. This guy is dangerous.

[F430murci]

Where is Koyinig, Harsh Jones, Asian Traveler et al. Lol, screw that, where is Putin . . .????

[hard124get]

Well, straight from the source! Can't blame the west for trying to escalate this into a full war. And he's even admitted he lied. This guy is dangerous.

Putin said he had no intention in taking Crimea until the democratically elected President fled. He had offered an early election. I think that may have been a better way to go. Victoria Nuland admitted US had spent 5 billion on regime change in Ukraine, and picked the chocolate king herself. So, yes you can blame the west for all of it.

[Choctastic]

Can't blame the west for trying to escalate this into a full war.

This is just business as usual for the Masters of the Universe. They have been destabilizing, ousting democratically elected Presidents, (or secular governments in favour of Islamist) and basically resorting to violence to expand the merchant and banking Empire, for the last 100 years or more. Pretexts can always be found to present to the domestic audience. The Red Menace worked beautifully, then Islamic fundamentalism, R2P, 'humanitarian' causes, and so on.

Those who keep swallowing these pretexts... this time it is Putin... need to snap out of their marketing-induced trance.

[Nickhick]

Well, straight from the source! Can't blame the west for trying to escalate this into a full war. And he's even admitted he lied. This guy is dangerous.

He has the small man despise ....little prick

[emilymat]

I well remember one of the first things Putin did as President was to ditch the Russian national anthem and replace it with the previous Soviet Union one. Even at that time it was clear what future he foresaw in his mind.

I find this guy really scary, with typical KGB mentality.

[EnglishJohn]

Can't blame the west for trying to escalate this into a full war.

This is just business as usual for the Masters of the Universe. They have been destabilizing, ousting democratically elected Presidents, (or secular governments in favour of Islamist) and basically resorting to violence to expand the merchant and banking Empire, for the last 100 years or more. Pretexts can always be found to present to the domestic audience. The Red Menace worked beautifully, then Islamic fundamentalism, R2P, 'humanitarian' causes, and so on.

Those who keep swallowing these pretexts... this time it is Putin... need to snap out of their marketing-induced trance.

And those who wish to direct hate at the West should trying taking off their blinkers and see the full picture. The real world is not as simple as the one you live in.

Sure the West play world politics just as every other country does - but your innocent victims are far from innocent.

Ready to use nuclear weapons for the sake of one man ?. This guy is unstable and a danger to all mankind.

I bet you think the Americans shot down the passenger airliner as well eh ?.

[Choctastic]

Can't blame the west for trying to escalate this into a full war.

This is just business as usual for the Masters of the Universe. They have been destabilizing, ousting democratically elected Presidents, (or secular governments in favour of Islamist) and basically resorting to violence to expand the merchant and banking Empire, for the last 100 years or more. Pretexts can always be found to present to the domestic audience. The Red Menace worked beautifully, then Islamic fundamentalism, R2P, 'humanitarian' causes, and so on.

Those who keep swallowing these pretexts... this time it is Putin... need to snap out of their marketing-induced trance.

And those who wish to direct hate at the West should trying taking off their blinkers and see the full picture. The real world is not as simple as the one you live in.

Sure the West play world politics just as every other country does - but your innocent victims are far from innocent.

Ready to use nuclear weapons for the sake of one man ?. This guy is unstable and a danger to all mankind.

I bet you think the Americans shot down the passenger airliner as well eh ?.

If there had been evidence of Russian involvement, you can be sure it would have been provided by now.

As for directing 'hate' at the West, not sure who you are referring to, I did not use the term. Having said that, much of the world regards the U.S. as the greatest threat to world peace, far in excess of any other nation, including 13% of Americans.

http://www.wingia.com/en/services/about_the_end_of_year_survey/global_results/7/33/

What 'full picture' am I not seeing?

Putin has already said he would use nuclear weapons, in war, since his conventional forces are no match for the U.S. Nothing controversial about that. As for the headline...'Russia was ready to bring its nuclear weapons into a state of alert', what state would that be? Yellow, Amber, Red? What system do the Russians use? Nor did he actually do it, he just considered it. So, it is a bit of a non-story, don't you think? A manufactured 'crime' in order to spew out the rest of the Putin-bashing.

[F430murci]

Too funny.

Putin now admits that Russian forces (I believe he said he rotated 43,000 troops in and out of the Ukraine before his unexplained hiatus) and Russian heavy artillery were used in the Ukraine conflict and that he had plans to take over portions of the Eastern Ukraine prior to Yanucovych's removal. These were all facts vehemently denied by people in this thread and our Russian propaganda trolls. Putin's admission only came after documents were leaked in Russia and evidence gathered by Nemtsov and others is about to go public.

Having lost that argument, which is actually the topic of the OP, you guys want to revert back to the check or the egg argument. In prior threads, I outlined exactly what led up to and caused the conflict in the Ukraine, but you guys ignore the facts and the complete picture.

Yanucovych and the Ukraine wanted IMF help, signed an agreement with the IMF. Russia then said don't you dare and forced Yanucovych through various economic and trade harassments and sanctions to renege on the IFM agreement and Russia forced Yanucovych to accept a Russian loan agreement that had terms worse than any loan one may expect to obtain from the mafia. Had Russia and Putin not tried to once again screw and keep Ukraine subservient through a horrid, mafia like bail out loan with no set terms or interest rates, Ukraine would have happily took the deal and things would be much different now.

[fvw53]

I always say that if a leader is 10 years of more in power - and alone in power - he or she starts to be cut off reality and live in "a bubble"

If Putin made this shocking declaration on TV last Sunday then

1) in the best case he just wanted to shock the Russian audience and convince them they need HIM and only HIM to protect them.

2) in the worst case he already lives in "a bubble" and has no more good assessment of the reality outside the Kremlin : indeed who would attack against Russia about Ukraine?

[Asiantravel]

Too funny.

Putin now admits that Russian forces (I believe he said he rotated 43,000 troops in and out of the Ukraine before his unexplained hiatus) and Russian heavy artillery were used in the Ukraine conflict and that he had plans to take over portions of the Eastern Ukraine prior to Yanucovych's removal. These were all facts vehemently denied by people in this thread and our Russian propaganda trolls. Putin's admission only came after documents were leaked in Russia and evidence gathered by Nemtsov and others is about to go public.

Having lost that argument, which is actually the topic of the OP, you guys want to revert back to the check or the egg argument. In prior threads, I outlined exactly what led up to and caused the conflict in the Ukraine, but you guys ignore the facts and the complete picture.

Yanucovych and the Ukraine wanted IMF help, signed an agreement with the IMF. Russia then said don't you dare and forced Yanucovych through various economic and trade harassments and sanctions to renege on the IFM agreement and Russia forced Yanucovych to accept a Russian loan agreement that had terms worse than any loan one may expect to obtain from the mafia. Had Russia and Putin not tried to once again screw and keep Ukraine subservient through a horrid, mafia like bail out loan with no set terms or interest rates, Ukraine would have happily took the deal and things would be much different now.

It is you that is too funny. You compare the Russian loan agreement to the Mafia but the IMF ( international Mafia Federation ) is considerably worse.

The IMF seduces nations into handing over their wealth on false pretenses and once that wealth is in the hands of the IMF – be it possession of land, gold, silver, business operations, etc. — that wealth is permanently in the hands of the IMF unless voluntarily relinquished by the IMF, and can not be taxed by any taxing authority nor seized, confiscated, expropriated or otherwise disposed of through any legislative, executive or judicial proceeding of any nation.

[F430murci]

Too funny.

Putin now admits that Russian forces (I believe he said he rotated 43,000 troops in and out of the Ukraine before his unexplained hiatus) and Russian heavy artillery were used in the Ukraine conflict and that he had plans to take over portions of the Eastern Ukraine prior to Yanucovych's removal. These were all facts vehemently denied by people in this thread and our Russian propaganda trolls. Putin's admission only came after documents were leaked in Russia and evidence gathered by Nemtsov and others is about to go public.

Having lost that argument, which is actually the topic of the OP, you guys want to revert back to the check or the egg argument. In prior threads, I outlined exactly what led up to and caused the conflict in the Ukraine, but you guys ignore the facts and the complete picture.

Yanucovych and the Ukraine wanted IMF help, signed an agreement with the IMF. Russia then said don't you dare and forced Yanucovych through various economic and trade harassments and sanctions to renege on the IFM agreement and Russia forced Yanucovych to accept a Russian loan agreement that had terms worse than any loan one may expect to obtain from the mafia. Had Russia and Putin not tried to once again screw and keep Ukraine subservient through a horrid, mafia like bail out loan with no set terms or interest rates, Ukraine would have happily took the deal and things would be much different now.

It is you that is too funny. You compare the Russian loan agreement to the Mafia but the IMF ( international Mafia Federation ) is considerably worse.

The IMF seduces nations into handing over their wealth on false pretenses and once that wealth is in the hands of the IMF – be it possession of land, gold, silver, business operations, etc. — that wealth is permanently in the hands of the IMF unless voluntarily relinquished by the IMF, and can not be taxed by any taxing authority nor seized, confiscated, expropriated or otherwise disposed of through any legislative, executive or judicial proceeding of any nation.

Lol, here comes the guy the guy that has, uhm lets see . . . a zero percent track record in forecasting or predicting economic, social and, still laughing at the Ebola hysteria prediction of US being doomed by Ebola outbreak, situations in US, Russia or Ukraine. In fact, nothing you have ever said has played out or been remotely accurate.

Humor us . . .

(1) What were them terms of the Russian loan?

(2) What were the terms of the IMF loan?

The remainder of your post is just more nutty rhetoric comparable to your prior Ebola is crashing through the porous US, Mexico border and the US is doomed to Ebola outbreak hysteria.

[F430murci]

Too funny.

Putin now admits that Russian forces (I believe he said he rotated 43,000 troops in and out of the Ukraine before his unexplained hiatus) and Russian heavy artillery were used in the Ukraine conflict and that he had plans to take over portions of the Eastern Ukraine prior to Yanucovych's removal. These were all facts vehemently denied by people in this thread and our Russian propaganda trolls. Putin's admission only came after documents were leaked in Russia and evidence gathered by Nemtsov and others is about to go public.

Having lost that argument, which is actually the topic of the OP, you guys want to revert back to the check or the egg argument. In prior threads, I outlined exactly what led up to and caused the conflict in the Ukraine, but you guys ignore the facts and the complete picture.

Yanucovych and the Ukraine wanted IMF help, signed an agreement with the IMF. Russia then said don't you dare and forced Yanucovych through various economic and trade harassments and sanctions to renege on the IFM agreement and Russia forced Yanucovych to accept a Russian loan agreement that had terms worse than any loan one may expect to obtain from the mafia. Had Russia and Putin not tried to once again screw and keep Ukraine subservient through a horrid, mafia like bail out loan with no set terms or interest rates, Ukraine would have happily took the deal and things would be much different now.

It is you that is too funny. You compare the Russian loan agreement to the Mafia but the IMF ( international Mafia Federation ) is considerably worse.

The IMF seduces nations into handing over their wealth on false pretenses and once that wealth is in the hands of the IMF – be it possession of land, gold, silver, business operations, etc. — that wealth is permanently in the hands of the IMF unless voluntarily relinquished by the IMF, and can not be taxed by any taxing authority nor seized, confiscated, expropriated or otherwise disposed of through any legislative, executive or judicial proceeding of any nation.

Here is what I posted a month ago on this subject that the Russian trolls and you ignored then and act like you don't know about now when making such statements.

----------

The US did not start the mess in the Ukraine. Ukraine has been a basket case for years. Revolution/protests in 2004 or 2005? In the last 10 years, Ukraine has been plagued by corruption due to Russian styled and influenced government, mismanagement, poor economic conditions, poor GDP growth, inflation and devaluation of currency and an absolute inability to obtain funding from public markets to try and correct its course and rebuild its economy and infrastructure.

Ukraine remaining status quo and remaining subservient to Russia just was not working out well for the Ukraine so Ukraine and Yanuchovych sought a solution.

Yanuchovych seeks help from EU:

Yanuchovych initially sought help from both the EU and Russia to obtain funds. EU did not go looking for him. He entered an agreement with EU to obtain funds that HE SOUGHT OUT from the EU, but Russia said don't you dare so he backed off.

Terms of Russian loan:

Russia forced Yanuchovych to cancel the EU agreement and borrow $ 15 bn from Russia payable in $ 2 bn tranches. Ukraine, however, was required to relinquish the Kerch peninsula. There was NO set Interest rate on the Russian loans payable in 7 tranches. Interest rates would be renegotiated every quarter (BAD idea to let your lender set the interest rate AFTER take the money or loan). Russia said it would cut the price of gas sold to the Ukraine, but the price cut was subject to rescission at any time. Russia said they would stop harassing Ukraine exports at the border and return to pre-2013 customs regulations. The deal was then sealed with illegal kick backs and bribes ala Yuriy Kolobov.

REALLY??? Who the heck would sign such a deal. No set Interest rate. Give up valuable land. You might get a break in gas prices this month, but probably not next month. Sounds like a loan from the Mafia. No wonder people from the Ukraine with any sense were pissed off.

Russia then started exerting economic coercions, harassing Ukraine exports at the border and threatened to turn off the gas to force Ukraine into releasing the 2nd $ 2 bn tranche. Meanwhile, Ukrainians with any common sense were pissed and protesting because they saw their chances at a new an better life slipping away due to Yunuchovych signing a heavily one-sided mafia like loan agreement with Russia (a lot which will be stolen by corrupt Russian and Ukrainian politicians) the conditions of which perpetuated Ukraine's weakness and subservience to Russia that Ukrainians wanted to escape.

Who really is meddling?:

So . . . who is really meddling? This is a question for the people of Ukraine to answer, not some Russian internet trolls with an agenda. Nevertheless, lets look at some facts and observations.

Yanuchovych SOUGHT out the EU to obtain funds and to actually try and do something positive with the Ukrainian economy by tapping into world market. Russia did not want that and forced Yanuchovych to cancel his deal with the EU and forced him to enter a horribly one-sided agreement with Russia.

Ukrainians were and are still pissed at Russia for meddling in its deal with the EU which Ukrainians believed would turn their lives around. Ukrainians are pissed at Russia because Russia tried to force an absolutely ridiculous loan down its throat designed solely to keep Ukraine subservient to Russia.

[Pakboong]

It seems as if we all read the same OP and our preconceived notions simply take over our logic. This OP is first of all an Associated Press release and do you really think the White House press secretary would allow a release that does not represent their position on the matter? Never gonna happen. This release was about the Crimea and nobody ever denied or claimed there were no Russian soldiers in Crimea. They had a treaty which allowed 25,000 in the country, this OP claims 20,000. Putin simply states there were 20,000 which was allowed under the treaty. This is essentially a non issue.

The fact that both Hollande and Merkle backed off of Putin after an 8 hour meeting speaks volumes.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Pakboong

[Choctastic]

Here is what I posted a month ago on this subject that the Russian trolls and you ignored then and act like you don't know about now when making such statements.

It would help if you didn't insult members.

The IMF deal would have seen Ukraine plunged into debt-slavery, to the West. Just as has happened with many countries before it. The model is well established. "Join us and we will make you fabulously wealthy. we will let you keep the money and you can stiff the people with the bill". Privatisations, welfare cuts, increased taxes.

After the violent overthrow of the democratically-elected government by Neo-Nazis, the 'democracy-loving' banker bandits said we will still give you this money but only if you pacify the restless Eastern Ukraine. 'Pacifier' battalions were sent in. Russia had a 'Responsibility to Protect' (R2P). Right?

Btw. Russia is owed more than the amount the IMF was going to loan, by Ukraine, so Russia has a rightful claim to the money. That it hasn't pressed the claim shows just how wicked and evil those damn Russkies are.

[Asiantravel]

Too funny.

Putin now admits that Russian forces (I believe he said he rotated 43,000 troops in and out of the Ukraine before his unexplained hiatus) and Russian heavy artillery were used in the Ukraine conflict and that he had plans to take over portions of the Eastern Ukraine prior to Yanucovych's removal. These were all facts vehemently denied by people in this thread and our Russian propaganda trolls. Putin's admission only came after documents were leaked in Russia and evidence gathered by Nemtsov and others is about to go public.

Having lost that argument, which is actually the topic of the OP, you guys want to revert back to the check or the egg argument. In prior threads, I outlined exactly what led up to and caused the conflict in the Ukraine, but you guys ignore the facts and the complete picture.

Yanucovych and the Ukraine wanted IMF help, signed an agreement with the IMF. Russia then said don't you dare and forced Yanucovych through various economic and trade harassments and sanctions to renege on the IFM agreement and Russia forced Yanucovych to accept a Russian loan agreement that had terms worse than any loan one may expect to obtain from the mafia. Had Russia and Putin not tried to once again screw and keep Ukraine subservient through a horrid, mafia like bail out loan with no set terms or interest rates, Ukraine would have happily took the deal and things would be much different now.

It is you that is too funny. You compare the Russian loan agreement to the Mafia but the IMF ( international Mafia Federation ) is considerably worse.

The IMF seduces nations into handing over their wealth on false pretenses and once that wealth is in the hands of the IMF – be it possession of land, gold, silver, business operations, etc. — that wealth is permanently in the hands of the IMF unless voluntarily relinquished by the IMF, and can not be taxed by any taxing authority nor seized, confiscated, expropriated or otherwise disposed of through any legislative, executive or judicial proceeding of any nation.

Lol, here comes the guy the guy that has, uhm lets see . . . a zero percent track record in forecasting or predicting economic, social and, still laughing at the Ebola hysteria prediction of US being doomed by Ebola outbreak, situations in US, Russia or Ukraine. In fact, nothing you have ever said has played out or been remotely accurate.

Humor us . . .

(1) What were them terms of the Russian loan?

(2) What were the terms of the IMF loan?

The remainder of your post is just more nutty rhetoric comparable to your prior Ebola is crashing through the porous US, Mexico border and the US is doomed to Ebola outbreak hysteria.

but I still doubt the number of times I expressed concern about Ebola during time the media were covering it every day equates to the number of times you have based your opinion on things because of what your wife says?

[Asiantravel]

Strategic thinkers believe nuclear war can be won by the US and all the evidence is that Washington has been preparing for a first strike against Russia for some years now

1. Washington broke its assurances that NATO would not be expanded into the Baltics and Eastern Europe.
2. Washington changed its war doctrine to permit nuclear first strike.
3. Washington is establishing ABM missile bases on Russia’s borders.

These are raw hard facts to which the world appears content to remain blind.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/08/23/guest-article-steven-starr-senator-corkers-path-nuclear-war/

[Rancid]

Can't blame the west for trying to escalate this into a full war.

This is just business as usual for the Masters of the Universe. They have been destabilizing, ousting democratically elected Presidents, (or secular governments in favour of Islamist) and basically resorting to violence to expand the merchant and banking Empire, for the last 100 years or more. Pretexts can always be found to present to the domestic audience. The Red Menace worked beautifully, then Islamic fundamentalism, R2P, 'humanitarian' causes, and so on.

Those who keep swallowing these pretexts... this time it is Putin... need to snap out of their marketing-induced trance.

And those who wish to direct hate at the West should trying taking off their blinkers and see the full picture. The real world is not as simple as the one you live in.

Sure the West play world politics just as every other country does - but your innocent victims are far from innocent.

Ready to use nuclear weapons for the sake of one man ?. This guy is unstable and a danger to all mankind.

I bet you think the Americans shot down the passenger airliner as well eh ?.

I don't direct hate at the West, thing is though we are being lied to by our/their media, which is why reading more extensively is a good idea. There is indeed disinformation from all directions, however some things ring true and not others.

What is a fact is that the US spent 5 billion to illegally oust a democratically elected government in Ukraine and installed a bunch of lunatic Nazis. Since then they've released the dogs of war, sop.

Add to that US neocon think tanks have of late decided that a nuclear first strike against Russia is winnable! Do you imagine the Russian reacted well to that?

Interesting titbit about the Crimea, back in the 30s it was being flagged as a Jewish homeland. The idea being an independent socialist state within the USSR. The US actually made loans to Russia based on this occurring, the Jewish lobby was gungho.

During WW2 this going ahead was a precondition to the US opening up another front against Germany and continuing to provide war aid to Russia, ie blackmail.

Many Russian Jews actually did migrate there, Stalin however changed his mind as apparently believed he couldn't trust a Jewish state on his borders.

Stalin died, Khrushchev then transferred Crimea to Ukraine which in effect stopped the Jewish state happening and cancelled the loan repayment.

There's more to it of course but that's a brief outline off the top of my head. Of course that area actually once was part of the Kazar ? state, where European Jews originated. Russia conquered it long ago.

Interestingly recently an Israeli newspaper was discussing Ukraine becoming a second Jewish state. The plot is usually more convoluted than we think.

[F430murci]

Here is what I posted a month ago on this subject that the Russian trolls and you ignored then and act like you don't know about now when making such statements.

It would help if you didn't insult members.

The IMF deal would have seen Ukraine plunged into debt-slavery, to the West. Just as has happened with many countries before it. The model is well established. "Join us and we will make you fabulously wealthy. we will let you keep the money and you can stiff the people with the bill". Privatisations, welfare cuts, increased taxes.

After the violent overthrow of the democratically-elected government by Neo-Nazis, the 'democracy-loving' banker bandits said we will still give you this money but only if you pacify the restless Eastern Ukraine. 'Pacifier' battalions were sent in. Russia had a 'Responsibility to Protect' (R2P). Right?

Btw. Russia is owed more than the amount the IMF was going to loan, by Ukraine, so Russia has a rightful claim to the money. That it hasn't pressed the claim shows just how wicked and evil those damn Russkies are.

??? More nonsense from the peanut gallery. You guys refuse to operate in subjectuve facts and persist at throwing out complete nonsensical subjective delluded hysteria that only someone living in a parallel plane of existence might buy into.

Russia is not owed more than the IMF loan. Russia has an "alleged" 4.5 bn gas bill and a $3 bn bind. Unless you were taught math by a different method that I, 3 + 4.5 = 7.5 and 7.5 is less than 17.5.

Now a out the benevolent Russians. The $ 3 bn is the 1st tranche of the horrible loan with no set terms that Russia forced Yanucovych to agree to instead of the IMF loan he sought out and that he and Ukraine wanted before Russia intervened.

You guys seem to ignore that Yanucovych and Ukraine sought out and wanted the IMF loan that Russia forced him to cancel.

Russia ha threatened to accelerate payment if the $3 bn bond based in one of those obscene terms Russia included about debt must remain below 60% of GDP. Sounds reasonable except debt was never below 60% of GDP when loan issued so Russia issued a loan under terms that caused Ukraine to be in immediate default? Who the heck does that except the mob.

Finally, everyone else is willing to restructure Unrainian onds and debt to allow Ukraine to get back on its feet with the IMF loan EXCEPT Russia. Russia knows and is trying hard to keep Ukraine from a successful restructure by demanding and not restructuring the $ 3 bn bind payment.

Russia wants Unraune to fail and doing everything in its power to cause Ukraine to fail because Putin cannot permit Russians to seer a Ukraine thrive when they are suffering and their economy is collapsing.

[F430murci]

Too funny.

Putin now admits that Russian forces (I believe he said he rotated 43,000 troops in and out of the Ukraine before his unexplained hiatus) and Russian heavy artillery were used in the Ukraine conflict and that he had plans to take over portions of the Eastern Ukraine prior to Yanucovych's removal. These were all facts vehemently denied by people in this thread and our Russian propaganda trolls. Putin's admission only came after documents were leaked in Russia and evidence gathered by Nemtsov and others is about to go public.

Having lost that argument, which is actually the topic of the OP, you guys want to revert back to the check or the egg argument. In prior threads, I outlined exactly what led up to and caused the conflict in the Ukraine, but you guys ignore the facts and the complete picture.

Yanucovych and the Ukraine wanted IMF help, signed an agreement with the IMF. Russia then said don't you dare and forced Yanucovych through various economic and trade harassments and sanctions to renege on the IFM agreement and Russia forced Yanucovych to accept a Russian loan agreement that had terms worse than any loan one may expect to obtain from the mafia. Had Russia and Putin not tried to once again screw and keep Ukraine subservient through a horrid, mafia like bail out loan with no set terms or interest rates, Ukraine would have happily took the deal and things would be much different now.

It is you that is too funny. You compare the Russian loan agreement to the Mafia but the IMF ( international Mafia Federation ) is considerably worse.

The IMF seduces nations into handing over their wealth on false pretenses and once that wealth is in the hands of the IMF be it possession of land, gold, silver, business operations, etc. that wealth is permanently in the hands of the IMF unless voluntarily relinquished by the IMF, and can not be taxed by any taxing authority nor seized, confiscated, expropriated or otherwise disposed of through any legislative, executive or judicial proceeding of any nation.

Lol, here comes the guy the guy that has, uhm lets see . . . a zero percent track record in forecasting or predicting economic, social and, still laughing at the Ebola hysteria prediction of US being doomed by Ebola outbreak, situations in US, Russia or Ukraine. In fact, nothing you have ever said has played out or been remotely accurate.

Humor us . . .

(1) What were them terms of the Russian loan?

(2) What were the terms of the IMF loan?

The remainder of your post is just more nutty rhetoric comparable to your prior Ebola is crashing through the porous US, Mexico border and the US is doomed to Ebola outbreak hysteria.

but I still doubt the number of times I expressed concern about Ebola during time the media were covering it every day equates to the number of times you have based your opinion on things because of what your wife says?

Surely you can do better than that . . . Nice answers to the questions! You're a real ringer when comes to making statements without a having a shred of knowledge of what the heck you are talking about.

[fvw53]

I don't direct hate at the West, thing is though we are being lied to by our/their media, which is why reading more extensively is a good idea. There is indeed disinformation from all directions, however some things ring true and not others.

What is a fact is that the US spent 5 billion to illegally oust a democratically elected government in Ukraine and installed a bunch of lunatic Nazis. Since then they've released the dogs of war, sop.

Add to that US neocon think tanks have of late decided that a nuclear first strike against Russia is winnable! Do you imagine the Russian reacted well to that?

Interesting titbit about the Crimea, back in the 30s it was being flagged as a Jewish homeland. The idea being an independent socialist state within the USSR. The US actually made loans to Russia based on this occurring, the Jewish lobby was gungho.

During WW2 this going ahead was a precondition to the US opening up another front against Germany and continuing to provide war aid to Russia, ie blackmail.

Many Russian Jews actually did migrate there, Stalin however changed his mind as apparently believed he couldn't trust a Jewish state on his borders.

Stalin died, Khrushchev then transferred Crimea to Ukraine which in effect stopped the Jewish state happening and cancelled the loan repayment.

There's more to it of course but that's a brief outline off the top of my head. Of course that area actually once was part of the Kazar ? state, where European Jews originated. Russia conquered it long ago.

Interestingly recently an Israeli newspaper was discussing Ukraine becoming a second Jewish state. The plot is usually more convoluted than we think.

Hi Rancid

You should stop the insults that the US installed a bunch of lunatic Nazi's in Kiev because it makes the rest of your contribution - although extremely interesting - very questionable.

Do you have references (internet links) which elaborate on your story that Crimea back in the 1930is was being flagged as a Jewish homeland...

That would be something really new and sensational to me.

[F430murci]

Can't blame the west for trying to escalate this into a full war.

This is just business as usual for the Masters of the Universe. They have been destabilizing, ousting democratically elected Presidents, (or secular governments in favour of Islamist) and basically resorting to violence to expand the merchant and banking Empire, for the last 100 years or more. Pretexts can always be found to present to the domestic audience. The Red Menace worked beautifully, then Islamic fundamentalism, R2P, 'humanitarian' causes, and so on.

Those who keep swallowing these pretexts... this time it is Putin... need to snap out of their marketing-induced trance.

And those who wish to direct hate at the West should trying taking off their blinkers and see the full picture. The real world is not as simple as the one you live in.

Sure the West play world politics just as every other country does - but your innocent victims are far from innocent.

Ready to use nuclear weapons for the sake of one man ?. This guy is unstable and a danger to all mankind.

I bet you think the Americans shot down the passenger airliner as well eh ?.

I don't direct hate at the West, thing is though we are being lied to by our/their media, which is why reading more extensively is a good idea. There is indeed disinformation from all directions, however some things ring true and not others.

What is a fact is that the US spent 5 billion to illegally oust a democratically elected government in Ukraine and installed a bunch of lunatic Nazis. Since then they've released the dogs of war, sop.

Add to that US neocon think tanks have of late decided that a nuclear first strike against Russia is winnable! Do you imagine the Russian reacted well to that?

Interesting titbit about the Crimea, back in the 30s it was being flagged as a Jewish homeland. The idea being an independent socialist state within the USSR. The US actually made loans to Russia based on this occurring, the Jewish lobby was gungho.

During WW2 this going ahead was a precondition to the US opening up another front against Germany and continuing to provide war aid to Russia, ie blackmail.

Many Russian Jews actually did migrate there, Stalin however changed his mind as apparently believed he couldn't trust a Jewish state on his borders.

Stalin died, Khrushchev then transferred Crimea to Ukraine which in effect stopped the Jewish state happening and cancelled the loan repayment.

There's more to it of course but that's a brief outline off the top of my head. Of course that area actually once was part of the Kazar ? state, where European Jews originated. Russia conquered it long ago.

Interestingly recently an Israeli newspaper was discussing Ukraine becoming a second Jewish state. The plot is usually more convoluted than we think.

Oh dear, lol!!! Crawling out from the wood work. Must be a sale in Reynolds at the local grocery store.

Lol at pretty much everything you said. All of this actually pretty entertaining and you sound so sincere about it. At least Asiantraveler sounds as if he is just writing crap he does not necessarily believe to be writing crap, but you sound as if you are serious.

Sadly, non-English speakers were duped by a twisting or bad interpretation of what Nuland was really saying about investments funds such as Horizon Capital and Sigma Bleyzer since 1991 into the Ukraine and what all those funds were used for.

Then the wonderful infowars and globalresearch sites jump on this and run wild. Get how non-English speakers might be duped, but c'mon. You are writing in English so you have no excuse.

God, you just gotta love the Internet. One can find support for just about any stark raving lunatic thought process or theory man can dream up.

[Scott]

A post with a link in a foreign language has been removed. Translating pages are not always accurate.

[F430murci]

It seems as if we all read the same OP and our preconceived notions simply take over our logic. This OP is first of all an Associated Press release and do you really think the White House press secretary would allow a release that does not represent their position on the matter? Never gonna happen. This release was about the Crimea and nobody ever denied or claimed there were no Russian soldiers in Crimea. They had a treaty which allowed 25,000 in the country, this OP claims 20,000. Putin simply states there were 20,000 which was allowed under the treaty. This is essentially a non issue.

The fact that both Hollande and Merkle backed off of Putin after an 8 hour meeting speaks volumes.

AP bowing to the wishes of Obama and his administration. What kind of alternate reality do you live in. AP hates Obama and is currently suing the state department. Keep telling yourself this stuff though as it apparently serves some purpose for you.

BTW, Merkel is fed up with Putin at this point. Yes, everyone including Obama wants the cease fire to hold up, but Merkel has said numerous times that all bets are off and stiffer sanctions are coming if Putin tries to grab Mariupol. Merkel and Hollande have not backed off Putin in fashion. Everyone, including the US, wants the cease fire to stick for numerous reasons.

Yes, I know your mind will tell you otherwise just like your mind convinced you that the AP allows Obama's administration to screen or approve what it reports . . . Some things, however, cannot be fixed with reasons, evidence or reality . . .