Aggressive Driver

[seajae]

on a trip to Bangkok I was doing 100K/110K on a dual lane highway and a bus was in front of me going way slower so I indicated to move out to over take. About 1 klm behind me a car started to flash his lights as I started to pass the bus, once I was a safe distance past the bus I indicated and pulled back into the left lane, the car that had flashed his lights caught up & passed me then swerved in front of me and slammed on his brakes trying to cause me to crash I presume because I had stayed in the lane overtaking the bus after he flashed me. I have good reflexes so I simply changed gear swerved back out and accelerated past the idiot but this is typical of many thai drivers. They do not know the road rules but expect everyone else to let them do as they please then if they dont these idiots then threaten others or do stupid things to cause accidents, maybe it is the downfall caused by having little d*cks and having to show how "manly" they are, then again face can also be a big player, must be very face losing to have to admit they are sh*t drivers and have no idea what they are doing

You can see 1 km ?

Yep there is a arrogant culture of drivers here like that, but you are taught in the west (UK) that if you can fore-see a problem occurring or that if you will force another car to slow down , don't do it.

(DELETED) in Australia we are taught to drive by the rules and what road courtesy means & thats what I do. If he had of been a lot closer when he flashed I would not have even pulled out but just because someone flashes does not mean they have right of way, also the fact I was doing the speed limit/just above it meant he should not need me to pull over from that distance.

Edited March 18, 2015 by seedy
troll / flaming

[seedy]

Two Troll / Flaming posts removed

[JohnnyJazz]

They have no judgement of the size of car, maneuverability, perception of speed, danger etc etc, all things we learn as part of driving lessons to learn the skills necessary to pass the driving test.

No training results in dangerous driving.

Quite the opposite. Here if you're not permanently ready for the unexpected, especially with motorcycles buzzing around you like flies all the time, you don't survive very long. They don't care much about the rules but they know how to drive.

The problems you mentionned are mostly those of the old expats with, face it, diminished capacities. And a bad temper doesn't help either. Honestly for the grumpy old man it's safer for everybody to take taxi.

Edited March 19, 2015 by JohnnyJazz

[glegolo]

I do think that it is a cultural thing when it comes to this agressive behavior. I have read that a thai is being descibed as something like;

- "a man born and living free"

- "free to express himself"

- "a man that can do what he like to do no matter his surroundings"

So there you go.... if you like to go in between that stupid view of themselves, plse help yourself... But you have seen what good it has done to you. Take care my fiend, and blow your horn in Thailand is the absolutely last thing you should do, if you want to stay healthy!!

These things are the absolutely first things you learn from you wife, and from your own life experience here in this country..... So calm down, be at fault, dont care,, feel like an idiot dont care.. The main thing is to stay healthy or leave this place..

Glegolo

[giddyup]

They have no judgement of the size of car, maneuverability, perception of speed, danger etc etc, all things we learn as part of driving lessons to learn the skills necessary to pass the driving test.

No training results in dangerous driving.

Quite the opposite. Here if you're not permanently ready for the unexpected, especially with motorcycles buzzing around you like flies all the time, you don't survive very long. They don't care much about the rules but they know how to drive.

The problems you mentionned are mostly those of the old expats with, face it, diminished capacities. And a bad temper doesn't help either. Honestly for the grumpy old man it's safer for everybody to take taxi.

Here if you're not permanently ready for the unexpected, especially with motorcycles buzzing around you like flies all the time, you don't survive very long.

Seeing Thailand has the second highest road fatalities in the world, not surviving too long is par for the course. I would have thought "knowing how to drive" as you put it, would also give you the skills to avoid being killed in the thousands every year. If you are basing your opinion of Thais knowing how to drive on your own driving skills, I suggest you take a taxi.

[JohnnyJazz]

They have no judgement of the size of car, maneuverability, perception of speed, danger etc etc, all things we learn as part of driving lessons to learn the skills necessary to pass the driving test.

No training results in dangerous driving.

Quite the opposite. Here if you're not permanently ready for the unexpected, especially with motorcycles buzzing around you like flies all the time, you don't survive very long. They don't care much about the rules but they know how to drive.

The problems you mentionned are mostly those of the old expats with, face it, diminished capacities. And a bad temper doesn't help either. Honestly for the grumpy old man it's safer for everybody to take taxi.

Here if you're not permanently ready for the unexpected, especially with motorcycles buzzing around you like flies all the time, you don't survive very long.

Seeing Thailand has the second highest road fatalities in the world, not surviving too long is par for the course. I would have thought "knowing how to drive" as you put it, would also give you the skills to avoid being killed in the thousands every year. If you are basing your opinion of Thais knowing how to drive on your own driving skills, I suggest you take a taxi.

75% of the deadly accidents involve motorcycle. The real problem in Thailand (like in the rest of Asia) is motorcycles, not cars. That's what the statistics say

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/02/02/death-rides-a-moto-cambodia-helmets-road-fatalities-motorcycles/

[JohnnyJazz]

I do think that it is a cultural thing when it comes to this agressive behavior. I have read that a thai is being descibed as something like;

- "a man born and living free"

- "free to express himself"

- "a man that can do what he like to do no matter his surroundings"

So there you go.... if you like to go in between that stupid view of themselves, plse help yourself... But you have seen what good it has done to you. Take care my fiend, and blow your horn in Thailand is the absolutely last thing you should do, if you want to stay healthy!!

These things are the absolutely first things you learn from you wife, and from your own life experience here in this country..... So calm down, be at fault, dont care,, feel like an idiot dont care.. The main thing is to stay healthy or leave this place..

Glegolo

Is it not America that is called the Land of the Frees ?

(DELETED)

Edited March 19, 2015 by seedy
troll / flaming

[wonder6281]

I had a similar experience a year or so ago. I didn't blow my horn or anything but held my ground making a right hand turn trying to avoid being cut off from a van from an outside lane. They simply don't like to be shown up as idiots, they cannot handle it! But idiots they are and I just expect them to act that way.

Edited March 19, 2015 by wonder6281

[oneday]

All you have to do is read the news everyday to see how ready some Thai people are to kill another person. People in this country kill at the drop of a hat for absolutely the stupidest reasons. Mostly the news is about Thai on Thai and a lot to do with jealousy. I feel in this country I could be killed just for looking at someone wrong. In my country there are many murders, but I still feel much safer, because, well it's hard to explain. It just seems here people do not valve life at all and don't even seem to care if they are caught and put in jail the rest of their lives.

If you don't want to call it culture, which I can kinda see, then you must lay the blame on their collective psychic makeup. Certain Thai people can get killing mad at the smallest things. I have also experienced people wanting to do much more than just flip a finger at me when it was their fault and I expressed my displeasure and it's almost always on the road from a crazy driver who thinks he owns every square inch of road and everybody, but him, is wrong. This type of behavior is rare for me to experience in my country. I strongly feel it often has to do with "saving face" and that is Thai culture.

[glegolo]

I do think that it is a cultural thing when it comes to this agressive behavior. I have read that a thai is being descibed as something like;

- "a man born and living free"

- "free to express himself"

- "a man that can do what he like to do no matter his surroundings"

So there you go.... if you like to go in between that stupid view of themselves, plse help yourself... But you have seen what good it has done to you. Take care my fiend, and blow your horn in Thailand is the absolutely last thing you should do, if you want to stay healthy!!

These things are the absolutely first things you learn from you wife, and from your own life experience here in this country..... So calm down, be at fault, dont care,, feel like an idiot dont care.. The main thing is to stay healthy or leave this place..

Glegolo

Is it not America that is called the Land of the Frees ?

If you don't like freedom, North Korea is probably a better place for you.

Considering you quote my post... are you answering me??? If so... I am giving an explanation to why I think this is a cultural thing....

(DELETED)

Glegolo

Edited March 19, 2015 by seedy
troll / flaming

[maidee]

10 million cars in thailand, 10 million people with their own rules

[Bung]

OP. You do know you have to give way to the left here? Couldnt quite figure out the scenario you described but he may have had the right of way (in his mind at least) and honking your horn would have enraged him more. Your really a lot better off not doing that here and just smile, bow your head, hide behind your tint and let them go.

Also, invest in a dash cam. It can really help you out.

[dotpoom]

You gave examples of experiences with angry drivers back home.....seemed like rather a lot to me.....could you possibly be causing these reactions either wittingly or unwittingly.

[Altalake]

Our Thai pals say some of these (DELETED) have guns - so just "bow meekly" and let them pass!

Do not get angry, you'll be the loser.

Edited March 19, 2015 by seedy
language

[raffo77]

just learned to give way to these idiots (minivans are the worst).

amazingly, when I have good driving manners, I see other drivers do the same.

why stress myself

[bonobo]

OP. You do know you have to give way to the left here? Couldnt quite figure out the scenario you described but he may have had the right of way (in his mind at least) and honking your horn would have enraged him more. Your really a lot better off not doing that here and just smile, bow your head, hide behind your tint and let them go.

Also, invest in a dash cam. It can really help you out.

He was in the small soi to the right. I was in the main road. I was already into the turn after slowing down when he decided to dash out and almost hit me.

I hit my horn instinctively, as I was taught, to try and alert the other driver to my presence, as I slammed don my brakes. Of course, he saw me when we pulled out, but that is what a horn is for. Whether it "enraged him or not" does not give anyone the right to chase down, block another car, then try to forcement a fight.

I have already ordered a dashboard cam.

[bonobo]

You gave examples of experiences with angry drivers back home.....seemed like rather a lot to me.....could you possibly be causing these reactions either wittingly or unwittingly.

Irrelevant. I have millions of miles under my belt, and yes, I have caused one accident and have made other mistakes in driving. So what? Even if I was at fault here (which I was not), I don't think in most places someone would turn around and chase me for over a kilometer just to try and block me and start a fight.

This type of incident has happened to me three times so far in Thailand and never anywhere else, despite having many, many more miles driven elsewhere.

I might add that at least twice, I have been at fault here in Thailand and caused another driver to react, and each time, after a quick wai from me, nothing happened. We both went on our way without incident.

[neeray]

I've said it before on this forum. I spent all of January 2015 in Thailand with my fiancé. I saw some pretty bad driving habits (including my dear gal) but I did not see one incident of road rage. We travelled one or two thousand km and I only saw two miner accidents. But I keep reading about bad Thai drivers in this forum. I haven't seen "bad" yet. But that was in the south; I'm sure Bkk and other places are different.

As for increased road rage as noted by the OP, that just tells me that the American and Canadian (me) way of driving is migrating to Thailand (too bad). I used to react to road rage. I now do what you did; ignore the idiot !

[topt]

In the West, when a person flashes his or her lights at you, that means "I see you, go ahead and come out/cross the street/come back into this lane/whatever." In Thailand, it means "I'm speeding up so don't you dare try to come out."

In both the west and Thailand flashing the lights can have several meanings, depending on the circumstances.

Interesting take on flashing lights with quote from UK highway code -

http://www.drivingtesttips.biz/flashing-headlights.html

[JohnnyJazz]

I do think that it is a cultural thing when it comes to this agressive behavior. I have read that a thai is being descibed as something like;

- "a man born and living free"

- "free to express himself"

- "a man that can do what he like to do no matter his surroundings"

So there you go.... if you like to go in between that stupid view of themselves, plse help yourself... But you have seen what good it has done to you. Take care my fiend, and blow your horn in Thailand is the absolutely last thing you should do, if you want to stay healthy!!

These things are the absolutely first things you learn from you wife, and from your own life experience here in this country..... So calm down, be at fault, dont care,, feel like an idiot dont care.. The main thing is to stay healthy or leave this place..

Glegolo

Is it not America that is called the Land of the Frees ?

Considering you quote my post... are you answering me??? If so... I am giving an explanation to why I think this is a cultural thing....

Glegolo

I just tried, politely, to say you don't make sense. There is nothing culturally specific to Thai people to think about themselves as free people.

In a number of posts I can read "back home we do like this, back home we do like that". They are not back home and no wonder with this kind of colonial mentality people run into trouble. Thai people are proud people, they stand their ground, nothing wrong with that. Respect them and you will be respected. And I didn't need to learn it from my wife, it's an universal rule.

[gawaterman]

OP. You do know you have to give way to the left here?

Really, I thought the only give way rules here was to give way to the bigger car/truck ( or Merc,BMW etc)

[Daniel Ingalls]

In this country you did the right thing, DRIVE DEFENSIVELY. The display of ones finger up in the air does not rectify any good. just be polite and smile, move on, do not stop to confront people who present themselves to be

mentally challenged, or in a rage temperament.

[StatlerandWaldorf]

I personally would agree that these are not isolated cases, I have also experienced on several occasions people being aggressive and driving very dangerously because in their minds they believe they have been slighted in some way.

On one occasion a lorry was joining a frontage road from the main road using the slip. I had clear right of way according to the broken white lines on the road as he was joining the road from a slip road. I was almost level with the drivers cab and he just continued to pull across into my lane as if I wasn't there, I had nowhere to go as there were cars in the lane to my left. I had to sound my horn and speed up quickly and pass him to avoid a collision, if I had stopped his trailer would still have hit my car.

Of course at this point I am now in front of the lorry in slow moving traffic, the driver sped up as fast as he could so he was literally only a few centimetres from my rear bumper, I thought that he was actually touching at one point. This was quite clearly very dangerous in a large vehicle that can not stop as quickly as smaller ones, especially as I had my young children in the car.

This is only one example of several I have experienced of people becoming angry even though they are clearly in the wrong, it seems to me that if you use your horn they take this as a huge insult that you are drawing attention to their utter stupidity.

Simply put, using your horn even if it is as a preventative measure (which is the whole point of a horn) can get you in serious trouble in Thailand, best to try to refrain from it's use where possible.

I also believe that for the most part people simply do not have any appreciation of how dangerous vehicles can be, and that just because you are encased in a few mm of steel you are not safe and are much more vulnerable than many people think. Hence the horrendous death toll here, the only thing that really surprises me is that there are not even more road deaths.

People will continue to say "this is Thailand, if you don't like it go home, blah blah de blah blah blah", but if people are putting my family at serious risk due to their ignorance and stupidity then I have a right to be p@+!ed off at them, would you be upset if someone was waving a loaded weapon in the face of your kids?

No difference. And that is all I have to say about that.

[bonobo]

I just tried, politely, to say you don't make sense. There is nothing culturally specific to Thai people to think about themselves as free people.

In a number of posts I can read "back home we do like this, back home we do like that". They are not back home and no wonder with this kind of colonial mentality people run into trouble. Thai people are proud people, they stand their ground, nothing wrong with that. Respect them and you will be respected. And I didn't need to learn it from my wife, it's an universal rule.

What is "colonial" about noting differences between countries and cultures? There are a lot of things different between my homeland and Thailand, and that has nothing to do with a colonial mentality. Quite frankly, there are many things about Thailand that I like better than in my home country.

However, I do not see any reason to turn a nothing into a major altercation. "Proud" people who "stand their ground" does not make it right to attack others. In my case, I did not let it escalate to an actual physical attack, but it does happen. It wasn't too long ago that a thread here on Thaivisa had a link to a video clip showed a motorcyclist calmly shoot another motorcyclist at a stop light during an argument, then casually drive off. Yes, this can happen elsewhere, but that does not make it OK for it to be done here.

In my humble opinion, I do believe that Thais can tend to over-react to perceived slights, particularly when behind the wheel. Not every Thai, of course, but I think in a higher percentage than in most places.

[Baerboxer]

Lets not blame the culture for everything.

Aggressive idiot drivers are all over the world.

Best thing, as you did, ignore the bastard and only take care of yourself and your wellbeing.

Confrontation can lead you to the hospital or somewhere worst.

I do think there is a cultural aspect to this. I have driven millions of miles in the West and have had near misses (and two accidents--one my fault). I have never experienced anything like this except in Thailand, where I have driven far fewer kilometers.

And there are differences in how people from different cultures/countries drive. Forget about adherence to traffic laws for a moment. In the West, when a person flashes his or her lights at you, that means "I see you, go ahead and come out/cross the street/come back into this lane/whatever." In Thailand, it means "I'm speeding up so don't you dare try to come out."

I am not opining that all is better in the West. This is only one observation about Thailand, and I think there is a cultural aspect to it.

Flashing or not flashing the lights has nothing to do with culture.

Being good or bad drivers has nothing to do with culture either.

The lack of driving skills in Thailand and lack of judgement has got more to do with their mentality and lack of ability to learn or obey the law.

Yes it does.

In Western culture flashing lights conveys courtesy - you may go in front of me, or thank you for giving way. In Thai culture it conveys - hey, I'm coming stay out my way. All part of seeing giving way to someone as loosing face, which is a cultural aspect.

There mentality, lack of desire and capability to learn and disregard for the law, when it suits them are all part of their world view, of which culture is an important influence.

Same mentality when they push in or walk to the front of queues - only they matter, no one is as important. Any challenge to that, as the OP found out, can provoke a reaction.

[wprime]

@StatlerandWaldorf

Getting (DELETED) off doesn't help, just do what you need to do to keep away from them. Trucks are easy to get away from, just bring him to a stop while on an incline and watch him flash his high beams at you as you drive away.

Edited March 19, 2015 by seedy
language

[bonobo]

I was listening to a Thai government official on the radio a month or so back explaining the zig-zag lines they had painted on certain streets. He flatly said that Thai drivers speed up when they see a pedestrian trying to cross the road, not wanting to give way, so they painted these lines to fool the driver into thinking the road was narrower and they would slow down.

This was a government official noting this tendency of Thai drivers.

[glegolo]

I do think that it is a cultural thing when it comes to this agressive behavior. I have read that a thai is being descibed as something like;

- "a man born and living free"

- "free to express himself"

- "a man that can do what he like to do no matter his surroundings"

So there you go.... if you like to go in between that stupid view of themselves, plse help yourself... But you have seen what good it has done to you. Take care my fiend, and blow your horn in Thailand is the absolutely last thing you should do, if you want to stay healthy!!

These things are the absolutely first things you learn from you wife, and from your own life experience here in this country..... So calm down, be at fault, dont care,, feel like an idiot dont care.. The main thing is to stay healthy or leave this place..

Glegolo

Is it not America that is called the Land of the Frees ?

Considering you quote my post... are you answering me??? If so... I am giving an explanation to why I think this is a cultural thing....

Glegolo

I just tried, politely, to say you don't make sense. There is nothing culturally specific to Thai people to think about themselves as free people.

In a number of posts I can read "back home we do like this, back home we do like that". They are not back home and no wonder with this kind of colonial mentality people run into trouble. Thai people are proud people, they stand their ground, nothing wrong with that. Respect them and you will be respected. And I didn't need to learn it from my wife, it's an universal rule.

Was that politely?? (DELETED)....As blind can be, and as deaf can be.. I do not think that you after these years here in Thailand, will take in and learn anymore.

Thai means in their own language "free people".. that is the first lesson....And free people in that sense, that they are free to do what they like...You can see that directly in their great consideration between themselves or towards us falangs.....

Glegolo

Edited March 19, 2015 by seedy
troll / flaming

[NoshowJones]

Lets not blame the culture for everything.

Aggressive idiot drivers are all over the world.

Best thing, as you did, ignore the bastard and only take care of yourself and your wellbeing.

Confrontation can lead you to the hospital or somewhere worst.

I do think there is a cultural aspect to this. I have driven millions of miles in the West and have had near misses (and two accidents--one my fault). I have never experienced anything like this except in Thailand, where I have driven far fewer kilometers.

And there are differences in how people from different cultures/countries drive. Forget about adherence to traffic laws for a moment. In the West, when a person flashes his or her lights at you, that means "I see you, go ahead and come out/cross the street/come back into this lane/whatever." In Thailand, it means "I'm speeding up so don't you dare try to come out."

I am not opining that all is better in the West. This is only one observation about Thailand, and I think there is a cultural aspect to it.

Flashing or not flashing the lights has nothing to do with culture.

Being good or bad drivers has nothing to do with culture either.

The lack of driving skills in Thailand and lack of judgement has got more to do with their mentality and lack of ability to learn or obey the law.

Costas, IMO. your first sentence is wrong, but your other two are spot on.

[nuananddon]

I've been driving motor vehicles for over 50 years, 14 in Thailand. Had very few tickets and one accident(not my fault, other driver fell asleep and crossed centerline,bam!) when I first started driving in Thailand I was rudely awakened to the craziness of some of these drivers. I was mad as hell every time we went anywhere. After a few years you get used to it. That's what you have to do,get used to it. They're not going to change, period. Please avoid a confrontation, you will always, one way or another , come in second.