Thai editorial: A blunder that could come back to haunt the govt

[JAG]

If the people think that about a government then they vote it out. It's called democracy.

Edited March 20, 2015 by JAG

[yellowboat]

Martial law means the "Government" can do anything they damn well want. No repercussions, no oversight, no consequences after they leave governance.

Absolutely right. And don't stop there : why did this situation arise ?.

Because the red-shirts were using terrorism to murder protestors, fully backed by Pheu-Thai and their bent police (who did not make one single arrest despite daylight attacks and clear CCTV footage).

It's funny how any red-shirt talk about 2010 does not include events before the crackdown just as talk about the coup never accepts any responsibility why it happened.

I would say people generally get what they deserve, but a LOT more red-shirts would be in jail if that were true. You are lucky to have just had a peaceful coup. Now live with the consequences of your actions.

The situation arose because elements of the judiciary, the military and others within the establishment made damn sure that the constitutionally called election in February last failed (and lets not forget it was called by Royal Decree), the same group made sure that the police were hamstrung, and the military declined to ensure order on the streets. Elements of the military assisted those creating disorder. A vocal well funded minority was allowed to disrupt the capital, and the conditions for a coup were carefully created over a period of months. Their carefully laid plans worked, they are now in power. Power they (and everyone else) know they could never have gained through democratic or constitutional means. That is why this situation arose.

Do recall the men in masks standing guard near the protest sites.

[DM07]

Martial law means the "Government" can do anything they damn well want. No repercussions, no oversight, no consequences after they leave governance.

Absolutely right. And don't stop there : why did this situation arise ?.

Because the red-shirts were using terrorism to murder protestors, fully backed by Pheu-Thai and their bent police (who did not make one single arrest despite daylight attacks and clear CCTV footage).

It's funny how any red-shirt talk about 2010 does not include events before the crackdown just as talk about the coup never accepts any responsibility why it happened.

I would say people generally get what they deserve, but a LOT more red-shirts would be in jail if that were true. You are lucky to have just had a peaceful coup. Now live with the consequences of your actions.

The situation arose because elements of the judiciary, the military and others within the establishment made damn sure that the constitutionally called election in February last failed (and lets not forget it was called by Royal Decree), the same group made sure that the police were hamstrung, and the military declined to ensure order on the streets. Elements of the military assisted those creating disorder. A vocal well funded minority was allowed to disrupt the capital, and the conditions for a coup were carefully created over a period of months. Their carefully laid plans worked, they are now in power. Power they (and everyone else) know they could never have gained through democratic or constitutional means. That is why this situation arose.

That is why...among others....

[Eric Loh]

Martial law means the "Government" can do anything they damn well want. No repercussions, no oversight, no consequences after they leave governance.

And Election collection means that the protesters and its opposition leaders can hit the streets whenever THEY want, too.....

Either way, no matter who is in power, this country is still screwed within their own 2 anti-anti agenda parties, where the people in power o any party will never ever ever get punished but rewarded with inactive life post pensions....

How would you deal with a totally corrupt, money grabbing, self interested government like the Yingluck government? Remember governments are supposed to serve the people.

Just vote them out, that simple.

[yellowboat]

If the people think that about a government then they vote it out. It's called democracy.

Many from the yellow camp stated they were afraid to go to Isaan or Northern Thailand to campaign. They lost touch with those people, and the likely hood of regaining their trust, at this time, is probably nil. These places have been ignored for decades by the elite. What is happening now is an effect from past neglect.

[Srikcir]

The jury has not yet spoken.

There is no jury in Thailand's judicial system; just a bunch of judges who were appointed by previous coups.

[tbthailand]

They desperately need to go back to barracks and allow an election.

And bring back Taksin and Hess hiper corrupt friends,...you wish...???....

So you do not believe in a representative government? Sadly, countries get the governments they deserve. The populous votes. They then get to deal with the joys and consequences of their decision. What sort of system do you favor ?

the poster presents a rather common false-choice.

It's not Thaksin or the general. It's can't-use-the-d-word-ship or self-governance.

[ExPratt]

Disgraceful conduct from the so called Government and you can see the contempt they have for the Thai people and Media by the smart arsed dismissive answers they gave to the press

[ExPratt]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

If you put this abduction and the murder threats to Khun Prayao, mother of the victim Nurse Kate by people claiming to be military personel, it really reflect badly on the junta especially now that they are in absolute power. Certainly not a blunder but a planned attempt. Thankfully this was exposed by the press which will somehow safeguard her life.

Not another "conspiracy theory" with nothing to back it up?

You must have shit in you eyes if you cannot see there is plenty to be suspicious about , it doesn't need much imagination to see why she was detained and charged with Terrorism does it , she is the number 1 witness against the Army for their 2010 Murders

[Rancid]

At least the whistle blower on government wrong-doing in Thailand has the media trying to help against fascist internment.

Look at US whistle blower Snowden on fascist NSA misconduct, he had politicians publicly saying he should be executed! If the government had got hold of him he would never see the light of day again. And what did the corporate propaganda media in the US have to say?

I haven't checked old posts but I'll wager the armchair generals here would have been screaming for blood as well. Hypocrisy?

[yellowboat]

Martial law means the "Government" can do anything they damn well want. No repercussions, no oversight, no consequences after they leave governance.

And Election collection means that the protesters and its opposition leaders can hit the streets whenever THEY want, too.....

Either way, no matter who is in power, this country is still screwed within their own 2 anti-anti agenda parties, where the people in power o any party will never ever ever get punished but rewarded with inactive life post pensions....

How would you deal with a totally corrupt, money grabbing, self interested government like the Yingluck government? Remember governments are supposed to serve the people.

By rule of law, not the total absence of it.

[ExPratt]

So why did the army detain her for 5 days if the police have evidence against her for terrorism ? It seems with the detainment people are threatened into keeping quiet and not speak out again , including freezing peoples bank accounts and threats of future prosecutions. It looks to me like she wouldn't play ball with them about her witness statement so they gave her to the Police on a trumped up terrorism charge

All the Junta boys on here still confident the 84 day internment wont be used against civilians ?

[kimamey]

They desperately need to go back to barracks and allow an election.

How would that help in this case? Neither of the previous two governments made a serious attempt to investigate the deaths in 2010 and the last one refused to even consider the army as being responsible.

An election is needed but just going back to the previous mess isn't for the best. Is up to those now in charge to get things ready for elections. Unfortunately judging by this incident they may not be up to it.

[Warpath]

They desperately need to go back to barracks and allow an election.

How would that help in this case? Neither of the previous two governments made a serious attempt to investigate the deaths in 2010 and the last one refused to even consider the army as being responsible.

An election is needed but just going back to the previous mess isn't for the best. Is up to those now in charge to get things ready for elections. Unfortunately judging by this incident they may not be up to it.

Slight problem, those in charge now are the ones who do not want any sort of effective democracy in Thailand - ever.

[JAG]

They desperately need to go back to barracks and allow an election.

How would that help in this case? Neither of the previous two governments made a serious attempt to investigate the deaths in 2010 and the last one refused to even consider the army as being responsible.

An election is needed but just going back to the previous mess isn't for the best. Is up to those now in charge to get things ready for elections. Unfortunately judging by this incident they may not be up to it.

Because governments should be accountable to the people they govern, that's why. Furthermore they should be selected by the people they govern.

If a government is the product of an election, and can be dismissed by the electorate at the next election it is accountable, and even if it is a poor government, it is there because the electorate selected it. And I repeat it can be similarly deselected.

If however whoever has the keys to the national arms kote decides he is going to dismiss the elected government and form his own, drawn exclusively from his own gang then that government, however benign or well intentioned it may be initially, has no accountability.

Without accountability it can do whatever it wants. It can deal with any opposition or inconvenient witnesses in whatever manner it wishes. Martial Law, attiitude adjustment, invitations to stay at barracks for discussions, they are all devoid of accountability. As opposition and/or dissent become more open the temptation to use ever more oppressive (and from the Juntas point of view effective) measures to suppress it will grow; and there is no one to hold them to account.

Edited March 21, 2015 by JAG

[kimamey]

They desperately need to go back to barracks and allow an election.

How would that help in this case? Neither of the previous two governments made a serious attempt to investigate the deaths in 2010 and the last one refused to even consider the army as being responsible.

An election is needed but just going back to the previous mess isn't for the best. Is up to those now in charge to get things ready for elections. Unfortunately judging by this incident they may not be up to it.

Slight problem, those in charge now are the ones who do not want any sort of effective democracy in Thailand - ever.

It's a bit early to say that yet but I have hinted at the impression that there's at least some cause for concern.

[kimamey]

They desperately need to go back to barracks and allow an election.

How would that help in this case? Neither of the previous two governments made a serious attempt to investigate the deaths in 2010 and the last one refused to even consider the army as being responsible.

An election is needed but just going back to the previous mess isn't for the best. Is up to those now in charge to get things ready for elections. Unfortunately judging by this incident they may not be up to it.

Because governments should be accountable to the people they govern, that's why. Furthermore they should be selected by the people they govern.

If a government is the product of an election, and can be dismissed by the electorate at the next election it is accountable, and even if it is a poor government, it is there because the electorate selected it. And I repeat it can be similarly deselected.

If however whoever has the keys to the national arms kote decides he is going to dismiss the elected government and form his own, drawn exclusively from his own gang then that government, however benign or well intentioned it may be initially, has no accountability.

Without accountability it can do whatever it wants. It can deal with any opposition or inconvenient witnesses in whatever manner it wishes. Martial Law, attiitude adjustment, invitations to stay at barracks for discussions, they are all devoid of accountability. As opposition and/or dissent become more open the temptation to use ever more oppressive (and from the Juntas point of view effective) measures to suppress it will grow; and there is no one to hold them to account.

You seem to have gone somewhat off topic in order to give me your view of a democracy which is entirely unnecessary but I'll deal with your point briefly.

You can only vote out a government if you are part of a majority. That's why there are rules in place to protect minorities. As an extreme example if there were a Conservative government after the next UK election and they had an outright majority and decided in future that only they would be able to present their views on TV broadcasts, that wouldn't be allowed even though they had been democratically elected and could be voted out in the next election.

The PTP won a majority which wasn't that great a surprise given the substantial promises. Why they needed to offer so much if they thought, as many on here do that the Dems are unelectable I don't know. Maybe they see the Dems and Abhisit as more of a threat. They did try to cut back the price paid for rice in 2013 to stem some of the loses but backed down when farmers threatened large demonstrations so it's not only an army with guns that can threaten and force a democratically elected government to change it's actions.

Having won the elections and being accepted as the government, including by the Democrats they seemed unable to keep their heads down and pursue the policies they were elected on. An amnesty for Thaksin seemed to have great importance. Choosing his sister as PM despite her lack of experience instead of one of the many other MPs was bound to raise suspicions of Thaksin's influence over a government even though he had no votes.

The army could have just used the martial law to allow the election to take place and if that had returned PTP I'm sure you would have been happy. A coup is never good but who knows what would have happened without it. There is at least peace now. The current PM has a responsibility to reform the election process and the judiciary that controls the parliamentary process as that's not respected at the moment.

OK let's get back to the OP and your original post.

The OP is about a nurse who is a witness to some of the events of 2010 being arrested in suspicious circumstances. It seems doubtful that the current government will conduct a meaningful investigation into the events of 2010 but if, as you suggest they returned to their barracks and allowed an election it's just as doubtful, based on previous experience that a government of either side would do so either. That is the point I was making. The actions regarding this nurse do not look good whatever the eventual outcome and wouldn't look any better under an elected government either. There seems to be a total lack of awareness of the need to understand how things appear to the population and the need to take account of that amongst all those involved. The apparent bias in the current bodies set up by the military are a prime example.

As I hinted the ability to reach the gaol of fair elections that were quoted by General Prayut after the coup don't seem as likely now.