EyesWideOpen Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Disagree. Most Thais I know are anarchists, and they know very well what they want. Anarchists are willing to shed blood for their cause in order to create change. I simply do not see that here, where the most important Thai value seems to be the sabai sabai concept .... And the few red shirts that were killed in the last few years were just part of a rent a mob, they could not even be remotely classified as anarchists nor patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesWideOpen Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 We are laughing, but keep in mind he is addressing Thais. They have no clue what democracy is or what it should be or where it comes from. They will bow their heads to this figure of absolute authority and swallow his bullsh*t, especially the ever-present mind numbing nationalistic nonsense. Agreed... It is not easy to turn sheep into lions. And it is the horrific Thai educational system that keeps this running... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 "We have to put Thai elements into the democracy" Appointed Senate Appointed PM Appointed EC Appointed NACC Appointed CC Appointed Judges Appointed Top Bureaucrats Appointed State Board Members Appointed Reform Committee (after election) Appointed People's Assembly (after election) ...and one neutered, gerrymandered elected House of Representatives who do none of the appointing. That is a lot of Thai element and very little democracy. cementing their grip on power until the next Thammasat comes 'round... Dangerously accurate' Thai voices will be heard soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 We are laughing, but keep in mind he is addressing Thais. They have no clue what democracy is or what it should be or where it comes from. They will bow their heads to this figure of absolute authority and swallow his bullsh*t, especially the ever-present mind numbing nationalistic nonsense.They understand very well that they have elected rhe same party at the last 4 elections, only to have it removed from office by an unelected establishment which answers onl to itself. They understand rhat the last election was trashed and the Junta imposed to prevent them electing the same party again.They understand that if they protest or oppose they are liable to symmary arrest,, miltary trials and detention with no appeal. They understand thar the Thai Army has shot unarmed civilian protesters in the past. I would suggestt that they have a fairly clear understanding of Thailands struggling democracy and the lengths that those in power will go to to strangle it. Perhaps I could add that even if some do not have a complete understanding of democracy that is bo reason to dwny it to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I said it already, but I will say it again, the Thais are not ready for democracy yet. An utterly patronising comment - one has to assume the poster is either grossly ill-informed or hugely prejudiced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micmichd Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Disagree. Most Thais I know are anarchists, and they know very well what they want. Anarchists are willing to shed blood for their cause in order to create change. I simply do not see that here, where the most important Thai value seems to be the sabai sabai concept .... And the few red shirts that were killed in the last few years were just part of a rent a mob, they could not even be remotely classified as anarchists nor patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micmichd Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Anarchists can be the most peaceful and friendliest people unless they feel betrayed. Guess many Red Shirts are rather disappointed by the party they supported, more precisely: by the elite that promised them a better future. Party leaders in future elections should not make promises that they can't keep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Disagree. Most Thais I know are anarchists, and they know very well what they want. Anarchists are willing to shed blood for their cause in order to create change. I simply do not see that here, where the most important Thai value seems to be the sabai sabai concept .... And the few red shirts that were killed in the last few years were just part of a rent a mob, they could not even be remotely classified as anarchists nor patriots. I think you need to brush up on your political persuasions - or just find out what an anarchist is before you post such nonsense on a forum. I certainly don't see any preponderance towards anarchy in most of the Thai people I meet every day, I would say they are "suckers" for law and order - and particularly gullible suckers at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Disagree. Most Thais I know are anarchists, and they know very well what they want. Anarchists are willing to shed blood for their cause in order to create change. I simply do not see that here, where the most important Thai value seems to be the sabai sabai concept .... And the few red shirts that were killed in the last few years were just part of a rent a mob, they could not even be remotely classified as anarchists nor patriots. I think you need to brush up on your political persuasions - or just find out what an anarchist is before you post such nonsense on a forum. I certainly don't see any preponderance towards anarchy in most of the Thai people I meet every day, I would say they are "suckers" for law and order - and particularly gullible suckers at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 He is fixated on "western" democracy. Does not even bother acknowledging certain Asian countries have viable, representative governments. His preachy, bossy tone is nauseating as well. The westerner lovers of all things coup have been rather quiet as of late. not me my thai wife family and all thai friends were still really happy that he has taken control and a million times better than vile evil Taksin his cronies and rest. We dont care if its not democratic since we can now get on with our lives without scourge of red shirt thugs.so load cheer for the one man prepared to get it sorted and for Suphet who almost alone managed to put hopefully for good that megalomaniac who wanted to turn Thailand into his own one party police state. Sorry if you dont like it please @#$#%%$#@@ off to your crap western type of democracy where PC is rife most can afford any sort of home and children at schools are so thuggish many schools need armed guards in USA and politicians who line their own pockets bankers who control all aspects of life and live like lords and most are simply slaves working themselves to death for their masters. Ive never seen anyone really hungry here and even our staff on 12k baht a month live IMO a better quality of life than most in west. My wife has visited with me most of europe USA and is shocked to see slums etc saying its worse than the slums she was brought up in in Bangkok I for one doubt whether you have ever seen a "red ahirt thug" let alone suffered frim their "scourge". S o why don't you #@$#%%@$$ off back to wherever you came from, and stop filling this forum with your fascist bile. Note to mods - I expect you will wipe this post - but this creature breaks about every rule in the book when he oosts like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) He is fixated on "western" democracy. Does not even bother acknowledging certain Asian countries have viable, representative governments. His preachy, bossy tone is nauseating as well. The westerner lovers of all things coup have been rather quiet as of late. not me my thai wife family and all thai friends were still really happy that he has taken control and a million times better than vile evil Taksin his cronies and rest. We dont care if its not democratic since we can now get on with our lives without scourge of red shirt thugs. so load cheer for the one man prepared to get it sorted and for Suphet who almost alone managed to put hopefully for good that megalomaniac who wanted to turn Thailand into his own one party police state. Sorry if you dont like it please @#$#%%$#@@ off to your crap western type of democracy where PC is rife most can afford any sort of home and children at schools are so thuggish many schools need armed guards in USA and politicians who line their own pockets bankers who control all aspects of life and live like lords and most are simply slaves working themselves to death for their masters. Ive never seen anyone really hungry here and even our staff on 12k baht a month live IMO a better quality of life than most in west. My wife has visited with me most of europe USA and is shocked to see slums etc saying its worse than the slums she was brought up in in Bangkok A profoundly ignorant and unobjective view of Thailand's current situation - if you seriously believe this is just a red/yellow thing then not only have you got the wrong end of the stick, you've got the wrong stick altogether. Edited March 21, 2015 by cumgranosalum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukebowling Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 We are going to be fat free, but with a bit of fat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesimps Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 "So, next time, please elect a good government into power. Presumably he means: elect a government comprised of the wealthy and elite in Bangkok, who already own and run everything else in the country, or there will be another coup. And we will keep having coups until you, the electorate, learn to do things our way right. So, in your opinion, was the previous government 'good'? Not talking elected , democracy etc Dunno, they were kicked out by the military before they completed their term of office, as were most previous non-yellow govts. It's like asking to give an opinion on a house that's only two-thirds built. I can't give you an interim opinion on this one either because I may be carted off for attitude adjustment sessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesimps Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Anarchists can be the most peaceful and friendliest people unless they feel betrayed. Guess many Red Shirts are rather disappointed by the party they supported, more precisely: by the elite that promised them a better future. Party leaders in future elections should not make promises that they can't keep. Difficult to keep promises when you're forced out by the military sticking a gun up your rear end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atyclb Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Toppling saddam under the guise of giving people democracy did wonders for iraq. "pandoras box" Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice are prepared to choose wisely. The real safeguard of democracy, therefore, is education. Franklin Roosevelt The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting. Charles Bukowski Thailand fails miserably in the prerequisite for democracy, education. need not even mention other issues..... cheating, corruption, incompetence, cronyism, etc etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noitom Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> " Although I TOOK power this way ( coup ) I understand democracy ... " Cue Music - " But through it all I stood tall and did it My Way " He is the undisputed Chairman of the Board now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muirton Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> " Although I TOOK power this way ( coup ) I understand democracy ... " Cue Music - " But through it all I stood tall and did it My Way " ... and did it Thai way. Thai way or the highway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plutojames88 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) One can imagine Edited March 21, 2015 by Plutojames88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Since there is so much comment preaching how bad the "Democracy" in Thailand is, can some one please throw some light on which countries democracy would be good for Thailand? I know someone said Indoesia but that wouldnt work. Thailand is a Buddhist country and Indonesia is Muslim. You may as well say a good model would be one of the Middle East countries (Not all are like Saudi). So please lets see what style TV member feel would be good for Thailand South Korea, Taiwan, India and Japan - Japan is the best fit as it is like Thailand a constitutional monarchy thanks to its uncondtional surrender to the US! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newatthis Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Toppling saddam under the guise of giving people democracy did wonders for iraq. "pandoras box" Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice are prepared to choose wisely. The real safeguard of democracy, therefore, is education. Franklin Roosevelt The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting. Charles Bukowski Thailand fails miserably in the prerequisite for democracy, education. need not even mention other issues..... cheating, corruption, incompetence, cronyism, etc etc etc Both my parents, born between the two wars, were not "educated" people but were able to make informed decisions throughout their lives. Therefore, I'm not totally convinced that education, or lack thereof, is the main problem in Thailand. However, you have hit the nail on the head with corruption and cronyism and we could include "face saving" in that, there is an absolute failure to admit that something was done the wrong way. Unfortunately, I am going to join the naysayers and state that this will never change, either under a military rule or an elected government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesWideOpen Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Disagree. Most Thais I know are anarchists, and they know very well what they want. Anarchists are willing to shed blood for their cause in order to create change. I simply do not see that here, where the most important Thai value seems to be the sabai sabai concept .... And the few red shirts that were killed in the last few years were just part of a rent a mob, they could not even be remotely classified as anarchists nor patriots. I think you need to brush up on your political persuasions - or just find out what an anarchist is before you post such nonsense on a forum. I certainly don't see any preponderance towards anarchy in most of the Thai people I meet every day, I would say they are "suckers" for law and order - and particularly gullible suckers at that. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anarchist "noun 1. a person who advocates or believes in anarchy or anarchism. 2.a person who seeks to overturn by violence all constituted forms and institutions of society and government, with no purpose of establishing aany other system of order in the place of that destroyed. 3.a person who promotes disorder or excites revolt against any established rule, law, or custom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesWideOpen Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Thomas Jefferson And this is the fundamental reason why democracy will never exist in Thailand. The USA can meddle to its heart's content, but it can never create the basic desire for liberty by the people under a democracy. Thais are trained to take orders, and they will die taking orders. Nothing will change that short of a massive educational reform where everything is questioned. And that will NEVER happen..... Edited March 22, 2015 by EyesWideOpen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micmichd Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_law Take recent movements, and you may find out that many so-called anarchists are actually quite value-conservative: they actually fight changes. E.g. when driven away from their habitat (flats, houses, land), by "gentrification" or whatever you like to call it. Gentrification usually begins with selling land to investors. Make a law against selling land that is used by people to financial investors, then anarchists will have nothing to revolt against anymore. Good to see that there is already a law in Thailand that prohibits Farang investors to grab land and eventually force decisions against the will of those who live there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Disagree. Most Thais I know are anarchists, and they know very well what they want. Anarchists are willing to shed blood for their cause in order to create change. I simply do not see that here, where the most important Thai value seems to be the sabai sabai concept .... And the few red shirts that were killed in the last few years were just part of a rent a mob, they could not even be remotely classified as anarchists nor patriots. I think you need to brush up on your political persuasions - or just find out what an anarchist is before you post such nonsense on a forum. I certainly don't see any preponderance towards anarchy in most of the Thai people I meet every day, I would say they are "suckers" for law and order - and particularly gullible suckers at that. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anarchist "noun 1. a person who advocates or believes in anarchy or anarchism. 2.a person who seeks to overturn by violence all constituted forms and institutions of society and government, with no purpose of establishing aany other system of order in the place of that destroyed. 3.a person who promotes disorder or excites revolt against any established rule, law, or custom. This shows two things - firstly you don't understand how to use a dictionary or other citations to support your use of language. secondly if you thought this was relevant to Thai society or politics, you don't appear to have any idea of how Thai politics operate either now or in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirtless Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Thai democracy first you need an elected government and all people should be equal so Thailand has never been a democracy they must be the Thai features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micmichd Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Sorry, definitions also change from time to time. I'm a cultural anthropologist, therefore I use the modern definition from Wikipedia. This is not a scientific article, and no reason to overload it with long text passages. I was also a banker, specialist for international portfolio systems and deeply involved in the 2008 real estate crisis. And I've got personally driven out of my habitats by investors and tycoons. As far as I can see in this forum, the question of Farang land ownership in Thailand is one of the most debated political issues. Many Farangs seem to take it as a given right that they may own any land of their desire. The native Thais that live their may have another point of view, and they are the majority of the electorate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recycled Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 If anyone believes Thailand will ever become anymore than what it is today, a lawless land inhabited by uneducated puppets manipulated by the rich and powerful who are supported by their more than willing corrupt servants, they are brain dead. Democracy has never been and never will be part of Thailand regardless of how many elections are held. What goes around comes around; this land was initially settled, owned and run by the Chinese and the full circle is near complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 He is fixated on "western" democracy. Does not even bother acknowledging certain Asian countries have viable, representative governments. His preachy, bossy tone is nauseating as well. The westerner lovers of all things coup have been rather quiet as of late. not me my thai wife family and all thai friends were still really happy that he has taken control and a million times better than vile evil Taksin his cronies and rest. We dont care if its not democratic since we can now get on with our lives without scourge of red shirt thugs.so load cheer for the one man prepared to get it sorted and for Suphet who almost alone managed to put hopefully for good that megalomaniac who wanted to turn Thailand into his own one party police state. Sorry if you dont like it please @#$#%%$#@@ off to your crap western type of democracy where PC is rife most can afford any sort of home and children at schools are so thuggish many schools need armed guards in USA and politicians who line their own pockets bankers who control all aspects of life and live like lords and most are simply slaves working themselves to death for their masters. Ive never seen anyone really hungry here and even our staff on 12k baht a month live IMO a better quality of life than most in west. My wife has visited with me most of europe USA and is shocked to see slums etc saying its worse than the slums she was brought up in in Bangkok I for one doubt whether you have ever seen a "red ahirt thug" let alone suffered frim their "scourge". S o why don't you #@$#%%@$$ off back to wherever you came from, and stop filling this forum with your fascist bile. Note to mods - I expect you will wipe this post - but this creature breaks about every rule in the book when he oosts like this. some folks seem to only post the most vile, hateful posts. This guys is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Indeed. One can't help wandering whether his posts reflect the way he lives his life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Prayuth said that "it would not be 100 per cent like democracy in Western countries". This statement alone makes us aware that he knows nothing about democracies. Exactly what is "democracy in Western countries "? Could he be talking about republic in the US of A , the UK parliamentary system, the Swiss Canton system, the French republic, or a host of other permutaions right down to the democratically appointed government of the Ukraine. If you eliminate that myriad of possibilities as models. it leaves little else other than a one party system, or a non-party system with an appointed electorate. Perhaps he does know what he is talking about - that is a scary thought. Do you really think he understands anything of what he is talking about? He's a general in a 2nd rate army. Since when did that carry any significant academic or political skills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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