Baerboxer Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 He is fixated on "western" democracy. Does not even bother acknowledging certain Asian countries have viable, representative governments. His preachy, bossy tone is nauseating as well. The westerner lovers of all things coup have been rather quiet as of late. There's only one poster who regularly posts complimentary comments that could be taken as flattering to the current government. And I'm not sure if he's really serious or just got a wicked black sense of humor. However, plenty of posts on many threads running that comment about the very non democratic criminally led former regime whose family led nepotistic kleptocracy was neither democratic nor justice based. If that's what you're eluding to. Asian counties - noted for their viable representative governments - and which ones would those be? Singapore, Malaysia, Cambodia? Or India the worlds biggest and most corrupt democracy? Western countries aren't perfect, by a long way, and many are arguable heading in the wrong ways, but at least their law and justice systems so necessary in underpinning democracy mostly work. Not true for most of Asia. Was thinking of Taiwan and Japan I like Taiwan, one of my favorite places. But lots of protests and some hard crackdowns when they do. Japan - some very "establishment" ideas, sexism, and strict codes based on the old feudal hierarchy in politics. Hmmm. Japan might be an interesting model after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalf12 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Everyone talks about democracy as if it is the golden chalice; it isnt. Some countries thrive on the basis of everyone having a say in national matters and some dont. The West has tried to force its views on every country in the world, America being the worst country to do this in recent times. They tried in Iraq and Libya and look at the chaos these countries are now immersed in. I think most of the people posting on this subject are comparing things to the ideal scenario where everyone has a hand in the national decisions and when decisions are made that is not to everyones liking they smile and say "it is the democratic process". Unfortunately no country in the world has this mentality and I would doubt if it could ever be achieved. All oof us that have left our country of birth and now live in Thailand did it for a reason. One of those reasons I am sure is that we didnt like the way our own country was heading. That was their style of democracy but it didnt suit us. The same goes in Thailand. For me I think things have got better but for those who find the changes unacceptable maybe it is time to take a long hard look at what you want and go and find your own Utopia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowboat Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 So...does that means to say when the democratic principles are upheld and applied by the future democratically elected governments then does the General agree that he will also address the issues of his accountability and or his political malfeasance and or any corruption and or any policies failures during his illegal tenure. In other words, will the rules of engagement also apply to him and will he agree to be proven innocent or guilty and stand trail to do so. Cheers He is the legal, officially endorsed, PM of Thailand. Like it or lump it, your opinion doesn't matter one hoot. But stop posting that his tenure is illegal - that's a lie and against forum rules. Do you consider it a 'legal tenure" for a non elected criminal fugitive to be running the country via a puppet PM and cabinet who simply handed power to him? Wow, rather skewed way of looking at things, though we are talking about Thailand where coups are supposedly legal. Who is going to stop and arrest the army ? Your logic is in tune with Thailand, but not with the rest of the world. Taking power from an elected government would be considered illegal in most circles. Yingluck won the election fairly according to the Voice of America. Her brother does not make her election or government in any way illegal. It is merely an excuse for deposing her government Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdoglover Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 There are two incompatible ideas (among many other issues) in this mess: Thailand will have a democratic type of government Conflicts such as those Thailand has experienced must be minimized or avoided In western style democracies, the following types of conflicts are tolerated, and in many cases are enshrined in various "rights" - Openly criticizing the government, from top to bottom - Allowing the press to investigate and report on any government malfeasance, without fear of suppression or retribution; and allowing the press extra latitude for possible slander or libelous statements - Allowing people to assemble in private or public and voice their opinions loudly - Allowing and actually promoting the open expression of opposing views in political parties, elections, and legislative bodies Anyone who has lived in a functioning democracy has experienced the central role of conflict. It is the design of democratic systems both to allow conflict to be expressed in very strong, albeit peaceful ways, and to provide the institutions for resolving, balancing and adjudicating conflict. This whole concept of the necessary aspect of conflict seems to be alive with the people, but dead with much of the Thai leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvr181 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 "Government of the People, by the People, for the People - has come to symbolise - to me - the definition of democracy". Now I am not U.S. citizen, but that seems to be a fair explanation of democracy. Is this what the PM is proposing? At the moment (and into the future) it seems to be Government of the people, by the "appointed" people, for themselves - Thai style? So sad really, considering the PM has at least stopped the rioters and their armed thugs. And many Thais I have spoken to are thankful the bloody riots have been stopped. But there is still a hell of a long way to go to get a law abiding (including respect for the law), socially responsible, transparent (financially and legally) with cronyism eliminated (or nearly so) society. "Democracy" may not be perfect but it is still better than whatever else is second, Thai style or otherwise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny S Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 He have no clue to what Democracy is and never will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thhMan Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) I have to say.... The military is doing a fantastic job compared to the lazy Police... If this is what it takes to achieve order and justice, then I agree that its all for the good.... Get it through their thick heads that crap like this aint tolerated, and then give the playground back and see if they learnt from the past events Sometimes you need to give the kid a good spanking, because words and promises are ill placed when nobody is listening... Edited March 21, 2015 by thhMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExPratt Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> He is fixated on "western" democracy. Does not even bother acknowledging certain Asian countries have viable, representative governments. His preachy, bossy tone is nauseating as well. The westerner lovers of all things coup have been rather quiet as of late. There's only one poster who regularly posts complimentary comments that could be taken as flattering to the current government. And I'm not sure if he's really serious or just got a wicked black sense of humor. However, plenty of posts on many threads running that comment about the very non democratic criminally led former regime whose family led nepotistic kleptocracy was neither democratic nor justice based. If that's what you're eluding to. Asian counties - noted for their viable representative governments - and which ones would those be? Singapore, Malaysia, Cambodia? Or India the worlds biggest and most corrupt democracy? Western countries aren't perfect, by a long way, and many are arguable heading in the wrong ways, but at least their law and justice systems so necessary in underpinning democracy mostly work. Not true for most of Asia. Was thinking of Taiwan and Japan I like Taiwan, one of my favorite places. But lots of protests and some hard crackdowns when they do. Japan - some very "establishment" ideas, sexism, and strict codes based on the old feudal hierarchy in politics. Hmmm. Japan might be an interesting model after all. I like Taiwan , worked there for a few years,I wonder if they still have the Binglung (Beetle nut) shops on the freeway. Shops made of Glass with scantily clad women inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Is it the translation or was that the most disjointed, incoherent, rambling statement he could make on the subject. Does the man not have the ability to put a logical and consistent statement together? How did this guy get to be a top general? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemguy Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) So...does that means to say when the democratic principles are upheld and applied by the future democratically elected governments then does the General agree that he will also address the issues of his accountability and or his political malfeasance and or any corruption and or any policies failures during his illegal tenure. In other words, will the rules of engagement also apply to him and will he agree to be proven innocent or guilty and stand trail to do so. Cheers He is the legal, officially endorsed, PM of Thailand. Like it or lump it, your opinion doesn't matter one hoot. But stop posting that his tenure is illegal - that's a lie and against forum rules. Do you consider it a 'legal tenure" for a non elected criminal fugitive to be running the country via a puppet PM and cabinet who simply handed power to him? Hmmmm...regardless of how you have diverted the original question over to issues from the past, the question still remains. Do these democratic principles and the rule of law that the General goes on about also apply to the General and any wrong doing or malfeasance or corruption or failed policies and or when the questions about his wealth and power are asked about and or the ways and means that he acquired them are scrutinized and or where did all the money go under his illegal coup tenure ....we wonder if he will readily cooperate and stand trail when others hold him accountable. Will he be held accountable the same way he is holding other people accountable. Meantime...like it or not, you opinion does not matter one hoot .....while you should stop defending the man and his smoke and mirrors agenda. After 17 Military coups over the last 50 plus years it should be painfully obvious the military establishment in Thailand has a firm grip on who really controls the politics of the country and the so called democratic values of the military establishment...currently lorded over by the one that you seemingly admire so much...General Prayuth. Cheers Edited March 21, 2015 by gemguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinmaew Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Thai Democracy = Democracy at gunpoint or if you are lucky a 15 year jail term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 "Reporters should also ask less questions about this [conflict]. It's useless. For anything that has already proceeded to the justice system, you should ask the question there," he said. "If you ask me and I answer, there will be some problems," he said. Too right there'd be problems. Basically, because you don't know what you're talking about and you'd utter unbelievable statements! I would venture that he knows far more of what he is talking about than you, I or any other foreigner ever will no matter what we think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PilotEd Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Someone needs to explain to the General that there is only "democracy". There is no such thing as Thai democracy any more than there is western democracy. Democracy is a Greek word that means a government ruled by the people. In other words, one person, one vote and the chips will fall as they may. BTW - the U.S.A. is a representative republic (that is rapidly degrading to an oligarchy) not a democracy. What Thailand has now is an autocracy. One person, all the votes. I await for the General's explanation of what a Thai democracy will be. If I were to guess it will be a combination of oligarchic control along with a sham democracy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 The most ridiculous part of the whole speech is saying please have confidence in the existing justice system!! The judiciary was one of the main areas where reform was desperately needed, you just have to look at the sentencing/fines/non sentencing/bail's etc etc to see how inept and desperately needed reform is needed. You could have the best police force in the world, but if the judiciary is incompetent/corrupt/inept/immoral/can be influenced etc then having those best police is completely worthless. Sadly Thailand does NOT have the best police force in the world. quote "but if the insert your own words here is incompetent/corrupt/inept/immoral/can be influenced etc then having those best police is completely worthless." And Thailand still does not have the best police force in the world so what is your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jools Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 "Thai people not do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> "We have to put Thai elements into the democracy" Appointed Senate Appointed PM Appointed EC Appointed NACC Appointed CC Appointed Judges Appointed Top Bureaucrats Appointed State Board Members Appointed Reform Committee (after election) Appointed People's Assembly (after election) ...and one neutered, gerrymandered elected House of Representatives who do none of the appointing. That is a lot of Thai element and very little democracy. Democracy is okay , the Thai interpretation is a worry. I get that Big Brother is looking after you feeling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalf12 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> Someone needs to explain to the General that there is only "democracy". There is no such thing as Thai democracy any more thanthere is western democracy.Democracy is a Greek word that means a government ruled by the people. In other words, one person, one vote and the chips willfall as they may.BTW - the U.S.A. is a representative republic (that is rapidly degrading to an oligarchy) not a democracy.What Thailand has now is an autocracy. One person, all the votes.I await for the General's explanation of what a Thai democracy will be.If I were to guess it will be a combination of oligarchic control along with a sham democracy. There is American democracy were they dump some of the ballot papers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smutcakes Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 The most ridiculous part of the whole speech is saying please have confidence in the existing justice system!! The judiciary was one of the main areas where reform was desperately needed, you just have to look at the sentencing/fines/non sentencing/bail's etc etc to see how inept and desperately needed reform is needed. You could have the best police force in the world, but if the judiciary is incompetent/corrupt/inept/immoral/can be influenced etc then having those best police is completely worthless. Sadly Thailand does NOT have the best police force in the world. quote "but if the insert your own words here is incompetent/corrupt/inept/immoral/can be influenced etc then having those best police is completely worthless." And Thailand still does not have the best police force in the world so what is your point? I thought my point is painfully obvious. If you read the post you can clearly says YOU COULD have!, infact i cannot believe you cannot understand what i am saying. I will try and make it clearer for you if it is possible: 1) It is ridiculous for Prayut saying we should have confidence in the existing system 2) That system is completely broken and is one of the main areas of reform needed 3) We have crap police but we COULD have the best in the world but with a broken judiciary it makes no difference what the police do. 4) Consequently point 1 says its a ridiculous comment as it is! for obvious reasons. I cannot make it simpler than that, perhaps you are trying to read things that are not there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prbkk Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Sukarno tried it in Indonesia. "Guided democracy" in TAVIP aka The Year of Living Dangerously. Not a great success there or a good model for Thailand. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalf12 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Since there is so much comment preaching how bad the "Democracy" in Thailand is, can some one please throw some light on which countries democracy would be good for Thailand? I know someone said Indoesia but that wouldnt work. Thailand is a Buddhist country and Indonesia is Muslim. You may as well say a good model would be one of the Middle East countries (Not all are like Saudi). So please lets see what style TV member feel would be good for Thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 "said it would not be 100 per cent like democracy in Western countries." - i.e. not democracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> Someone needs to explain to the General that there is only "democracy". There is no such thing as Thai democracy any more than there is western democracy. Democracy is a Greek word that means a government ruled by the people. In other words, one person, one vote and the chips will fall as they may. BTW - the U.S.A. is a representative republic (that is rapidly degrading to an oligarchy) not a democracy. What Thailand has now is an autocracy. One person, all the votes. I await for the General's explanation of what a Thai democracy will be. If I were to guess it will be a combination of oligarchic control along with a sham democracy. There is American democracy were they dump some of the ballot papers ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbalEd Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I don't think Thailand's past problem have been the fault of a western-style democracy, but the fault of the rotten-to-the-core corruption and inequality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Since there is so much comment preaching how bad the "Democracy" in Thailand is, can some one please throw some light on which countries democracy would be good for Thailand? I know someone said Indoesia but that wouldnt work. Thailand is a Buddhist country and Indonesia is Muslim. You may as well say a good model would be one of the Middle East countries (Not all are like Saudi). So please lets see what style TV member feel would be good for Thailand A good model would be one in which the elected government is dismissed by the electorate in an election if it loses the support of the majority. The result of the election, favourable or not is accepted by the non elected establishment. A bad model would be one in which the non elected establishment engineers the election to fail, in order to create the conditions for a coup and subsequent junta government, because it thinks its favoured party cannot win the election. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Will it be government of the people by the people for the people? or wil they miss out the middle one?...and maybe the third too? Govt of the people by the elite for the elite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmarlowe Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Seems that representative systems, no matter where they are located, elect bad leaders all the time. So it is up to them to elect them out. I do think we see this happen around the world and I do think the Thaksin machine would have eventually been voted out. Just my whimsical opinion. One thing I know for sure though is red bull boy would be behind bars for manslaughter in the USA or Europe instead of living the high live in Singapore. The law does exist in many countries with strong institutions. Thailand may not be among them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowboat Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Since there is so much comment preaching how bad the "Democracy" in Thailand is, can some one please throw some light on which countries democracy would be good for Thailand? I know someone said Indoesia but that wouldnt work. Thailand is a Buddhist country and Indonesia is Muslim. You may as well say a good model would be one of the Middle East countries (Not all are like Saudi). So please lets see what style TV member feel would be good for Thailand Taiwan, India and Japan are Asian examples. The examples do not have to come from the west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalf12 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> Since there is so much comment preaching how bad the "Democracy" in Thailand is, can some one please throw some light on which countries democracy would be good for Thailand? I know someone said Indoesia but that wouldnt work. Thailand is a Buddhist country and Indonesia is Muslim. You may as well say a good model would be one of the Middle East countries (Not all are like Saudi). So please lets see what style TV member feel would be good for Thailand Taiwan, India and Japan are Asian examples. The examples do not have to come from the west. India is based on caste as much as anything. But is not a bad example. However you appear to be basing it on how they work with the people of the country. The way the people of Thailand act is different. So maybe the examples you have cited as good as they are would not work for Thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plutojames88 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Have a safe US trip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLing Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) Since there is so much comment preaching how bad the "Democracy" in Thailand is, can some one please throw some light on which countries democracy would be good for Thailand? I know someone said Indoesia but that wouldnt work. Thailand is a Buddhist country and Indonesia is Muslim. You may as well say a good model would be one of the Middle East countries (Not all are like Saudi). So please lets see what style TV member feel would be good for Thailand North Korean democracy might work Nothing will ever work in Thailand as long there is no real education of the masses and people are kept stupid. Edited March 21, 2015 by JoeLing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.3b3332cc2256ad0edbc2fe9404feeef0.png)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now