Buying a second-hand condo

[BKKBobby]

Im looking to buy a second-hand condo but Im scared that I will end up getting 5 worthless A4-papers worth 1 million baht each, or some such. I dont trust thai lawyers or foreign lawyers that has thai expats and tourists as a target group.

Recommendations?

Any advice?

Thanks

[fey]

we told you already to not buy/invest here.

keep your money offshore and rent.

do you understand the upside?

[BKKBobby]

I will come across as bragging. Im 32 years old and money isnt and will not be a issue. I want to own the condo i renovate and decorate. Im certainly expecting it to loose value and at some point be old since the maintenance is not as good as in my home country were the most expensive condos are in 19th century buildings with units that look ultra-modern inside. Im a successfull condoflipper by the way, buy cheap and sell expensive. Buy shabby condos, renovate and sell. But this is Thailand, its not the same as back home. This is not a investment. I want to own my home, plain and simple. If you have any advice for someone who will buy a condo in Bangkok no matter what then please write.

[The Dancer]

"I dont trust thai lawyers or foreign lawyers ..." kind of shuts the door on yourself as you will/should need a lawyer at some point to vet the papers and seal the deal.

Of course, there are trustworthy lawyers as long as you are willing to pay the price. I haven't yet had to go look for lawyers in Bkk yet but surely there are referral/review sites kind of like TripAdvisor. Alternatively, you could find someone that looks credible and then ask about them here on TV. Couple of names to start with (which I have zero connection with): (1) the firm that sponsors the law forum here at TV (2) the firm that answers questions on Stickman's Sunday column.

[SunLover2]

If you work with a reputable real estate agency they should be able to refer you to a reputable law firm for representation in the transaction.

I don't know if they have anything like RE title insurance in Thailand but that is a traditional element of the purchase process in the US.

SunLover

[BKKBobby]

If you work with a reputable real estate agency they should be able to refer you to a reputable law firm for representation in the transaction.

I don't know if they have anything like RE title insurance in Thailand but that is a traditional element of the purchase process in the US.

SunLover

But a reputable real estate agency in Thailand are just expensive middlemen adding highly unproportional extra cost on the price of the condo, or not? In my home country the agent gets payed a percentage of the final price usually after potential buyers bid. I dont want to pay 5 million baht for a 4 million baht condo... Edited March 27, 2015 by BKKBobby

[The Dancer]

If you work with a reputable real estate agency they should be able to refer you to a reputable law firm for representation in the transaction.

I don't know if they have anything like RE title insurance in Thailand but that is a traditional element of the purchase process in the US.

SunLover

But a reputable real estate agency in Thailand are just expensive middlemen adding highly unproportional extra cost on the price of the condo, or not? In my home country the agent gets payed a percentage of the final price usually after potential buyers bid. I dont want to pay 5 million baht for a 4 million baht condo...

Bobby's starting to sound like a down-on-his-luck English teacher or a Germanwings pilot.

Edited March 27, 2015 by The Dancer

[rayongchelsea]

^^^ or a wise investor when you consider how illiquid real estate is here.

[berybert]

If you work with a reputable real estate agency they should be able to refer you to a reputable law firm for representation in the transaction.

I don't know if they have anything like RE title insurance in Thailand but that is a traditional element of the purchase process in the US.

SunLover

But a reputable real estate agency in Thailand are just expensive middlemen adding highly unproportional extra cost on the price of the condo, or not? In my home country the agent gets payed a percentage of the final price usually after potential buyers bid. I dont want to pay 5 million baht for a 4 million baht condo...

Didn't you say money was no problem ?

[BKKBobby]

Money isnt a problem but I dont give away 1 million baht for nothing.

[BKKBobby]

If you work with a reputable real estate agency they should be able to refer you to a reputable law firm for representation in the transaction.

I don't know if they have anything like RE title insurance in Thailand but that is a traditional element of the purchase process in the US.

SunLover

But a reputable real estate agency in Thailand are just expensive middlemen adding highly unproportional extra cost on the price of the condo, or not? In my home country the agent gets payed a percentage of the final price usually after potential buyers bid. I dont want to pay 5 million baht for a 4 million baht condo...

Bobby's starting to sound like a down-on-his-luck English teacher or a Germanwings pilot.

We are probably from different socioeconomic backgrounds.

[BKKBobby]

Thanks to the bitter miserable Bangkok old hands. This was the wrong place to ask for advice. My mistake. Only newly rich people dont give a sh** about giving away one million baht to some useless guy in a tailormade shirt. I simply wanted to get advice how to avoid ending up with 5 pieces of A4-papers worth 5 million bath.

The moderator can close this thread if you want.

Edited March 27, 2015 by BKKBobby

[NickJ]

Your the shiz bobby.....your loaded. Thats why ask a free forum for what clearly demands competent legal advice....your a big man bobbybkk.

[BKKBobby]

I dont trust anyone in Thailand and I spend most of my time this last few weeks on this forum.

[BKKBobby]

I want good legal advice. So give me it NickJ!

[BKKBobby]

Your the shiz bobby.....your loaded. Thats why ask a free forum for what clearly demands competent legal advice....your a big man bobbybkk.

PM me a company name and a number, and your name and residence as safety. I will give you a 30k baht for free if they help me buy a condo. If they scam me you will have to look for another country to live. Edited March 27, 2015 by BKKBobby

[The Dancer]

Thanks to the bitter miserable Bangkok old hands. This was the wrong place to ask for advice. My mistake. Only newly rich people dont give a sh** about giving away one million baht to some useless guy in a tailormade shirt. I simply wanted to get advice how to avoid ending up with 5 pieces of A4-papers worth 5 million bath.

The moderator can close this thread if you want.

No, no, Bobby don't go away. I'll help you buy a 5-million baht condo for 4. The owner's desperate, hates lawyers and deals in cash only. No more questions. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Wear a blue shirt and bring the cash in a briefcase marked "Money" tomorrow morning at 10 to the McDonalds on Soi 5. You will not regret this.

Your friend.

[BKKBobby]

Thanks to the bitter miserable Bangkok old hands. This was the wrong place to ask for advice. My mistake. Only newly rich people dont give a sh** about giving away one million baht to some useless guy in a tailormade shirt. I simply wanted to get advice how to avoid ending up with 5 pieces of A4-papers worth 5 million bath.

The moderator can close this thread if you want.

No, no, Bobby don't go away. I'll help you buy a 5-million baht condo for 4. The owner's desperate, hates lawyers and deals in cash only. No more questions. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Wear a blue shirt and bring the cash in a briefcase marked "Money" tomorrow morning at 10 to the McDonalds on Soi 5. You will not regret this.

Your friend.

Sarcasm is what people use when they dont have a real answer.

See Im from Sweden. A country where you cant get screwed. The agents are bound by law and the bank is directly involved. I dont know the process in Thailand, but I dont want to give Somchai money for nothing.

Youre a Bangkok OLD hand.

Enjoy the fruits of your labour.

Piss off.

Edited March 27, 2015 by BKKBobby

[The Dancer]

Thanks to the bitter miserable Bangkok old hands. This was the wrong place to ask for advice. My mistake. Only newly rich people dont give a sh** about giving away one million baht to some useless guy in a tailormade shirt. I simply wanted to get advice how to avoid ending up with 5 pieces of A4-papers worth 5 million bath.

The moderator can close this thread if you want.

No, no, Bobby don't go away. I'll help you buy a 5-million baht condo for 4. The owner's desperate, hates lawyers and deals in cash only. No more questions. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Wear a blue shirt and bring the cash in a briefcase marked "Money" tomorrow morning at 10 to the McDonalds on Soi 5. You will not regret this.

Your friend.

Sarcasm is what people use when they dont have a real answer.

See Im from Sweden. A country where you cant get screwed. The agents are bound by law and the bank is directly involved. I dont know the process in Thailand, but I dont want to give Somchai money for nothing.

Youre a Bangkok OLD hand.

Enjoy the fruits of your labour.

Piss off.

Does this mean we're not friends any more?

[BKKBobby]

Thanks to the bitter miserable Bangkok old hands. This was the wrong place to ask for advice. My mistake. Only newly rich people dont give a sh** about giving away one million baht to some useless guy in a tailormade shirt. I simply wanted to get advice how to avoid ending up with 5 pieces of A4-papers worth 5 million bath.

The moderator can close this thread if you want.

No, no, Bobby don't go away. I'll help you buy a 5-million baht condo for 4. The owner's desperate, hates lawyers and deals in cash only. No more questions. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Wear a blue shirt and bring the cash in a briefcase marked "Money" tomorrow morning at 10 to the McDonalds on Soi 5. You will not regret this.

Your friend.

Sarcasm is what people use when they dont have a real answer.

See Im from Sweden. A country where you cant get screwed. The agents are bound by law and the bank is directly involved. I dont know the process in Thailand, but I dont want to give Somchai money for nothing.

Youre a Bangkok OLD hand.

Enjoy the fruits of your labour.

Piss off.

Does this mean we're not friends any more?

You can shine my shoes outside of Exchange Tower 2pm on monday.

[berybert]

_{Strange that someone with so much money would choose to live in a country where he trusts nobody.}

_{Monaco is nice at this time of year. You will be among fellow millionaires there.}

_{Why would you want to live in a place full of down and outs ? None of whom you trust.}

_{As a young rich guy I'm sure you could get the ladies anywhere you went.}

_{Just out of interest why do you want to buy a second hand condo ? with all the cash you have surely a brand new one is the way to go.}

_{Some new ones just by the BTS at PhromPhong will be ready soon. Decent one there for around 50 million baht. Hey you are the guy trying to impress.}

Edited March 27, 2015 by berybert

[wow64]

So can anyone recommend a good lawyer? But if they rip me off you better find a new country to live. Classic.

Bobbybkk you have been on this forum to much this past week and you are starting to be a keyboard warrior. Go outside and get some air.. 2pm Monday @ exchange tower... lol

[bartender100]

There's a guy he is the Lions Club president in Bangkok so should be reliable, he is an American lawyer with contacts to the Royal's totally trust worthy , so he says

[SunLover2]

If you work with a reputable real estate agency they should be able to refer you to a reputable law firm for representation in the transaction.

I don't know if they have anything like RE title insurance in Thailand but that is a traditional element of the purchase process in the US.

SunLover

But a reputable real estate agency in Thailand are just expensive middlemen adding highly unproportional extra cost on the price of the condo, or not? In my home country the agent gets payed a percentage of the final price usually after potential buyers bid. I dont want to pay 5 million baht for a 4 million baht condo...

Nobody wants pay 5M baht for a 4M baht property. That is a universal truism. You can always make an all cash/quick close offer that is lower than the asking price. In other words offer what the property is worth TO YOU and let the chips fall where they may. You will likely have to make a bunch of low ball offers to catch that one fish.

I would not make a rookie real estate purchase in a foreign country without local professional representation with local market knowledge on the buy side. YMMV.

SL

[Globalist]

To the OP:

If you have trust issues, I recommend NOT to buy post-first-deeds-transfer.

If you buy pre-first-deeds-transfer AND if the developer is reputable (i.e. SET listed), then you will deal with the developer directly, which carries a virtually zero fraud risk.

[stufbangkok]

BKKBobby

If you want to buy a second-hand condo for yourself and without a broker or middleman of any kind, you need to decide what area/district you want to buy in. Then walk from condo to condo in that area and talk to the office manager(s). Ask if any condo unit is for sale. Often you will hear from online posters that Thais generally don't like to buy second-hand themselves, so there may be units available, which are not being openly advertised, and the Condo Administrator will often know this.

My wife and I bought our condo 20 years ago and now, nearly each week people (actually Thais only) come to see our office manager and ask if there are any units for sale. Thais also don't like to pay the broker or middlemen any fees, so they use word-of-mouth and simply wait untill they get to know someone who is interested.

If it is true that you don't want a condo for investment, but for yourself, this is the only way I can see for you. However, if you really want to to "buy cheap and try to sell expensive" - you should simply forget about the whole thing. Its a pipedream in my opinion.

About Thai lawyers. Please notice that that there are good ones and there are bad ones. When we bought our condo we had a personal friend and a Thai lawyer help us and you will soner and later have to find a lawyer too, you simply can't do without. And another point here. Our lawyer took care of everything, but one day the developer came with a bill that said "our share of the lift(s) was 100,000 Baht" to be added to the salesprice. Of course I was ready to fight the guy, but my wife paid the bill since we hadn't got our house registration yet at that time, and she didn't want any kind of problems. So even with good lawyers and professional help you can still run into problems if the seller think he or she "can run around corners with you".

Edited March 28, 2015 by stufbangkok

[rgs2001uk]

So can anyone recommend a good lawyer? But if they rip me off you better find a new country to live. Classic.

Bobbybkk you have been on this forum to much this past week and you are starting to be a keyboard warrior. Go outside and get some air.. 2pm Monday @ exchange tower... lol

Im a successfull condoflipper by the way,

LOL.

[rgs2001uk]

BKKBobby

If you want to buy a second-hand condo for yourself and without a broker or middleman of any kind, you need to decide what area/district you want to buy in. Then walk from condo to condo in that area and talk to the office manager(s). Ask if any condo unit is for sale. Often you will hear from online posters that Thais generally don't like to buy second-hand themselves, so there may be units available, which are not being openly advertised, and the Condo Administrator will often know this.

My wife and I bought our condo 20 years ago and now, nearly each week people (actually Thais only) come to see our office manager and ask if there are any units for sale. Thais also don't like to pay the broker or middlemen any fees, so they use word-of-mouth and simply wait untill they get to know someone who is interested.

If it is true that you don't want a condo for investment, but for yourself, this is the only way I can see for you. However, if you really want to to "buy cheap and try to sell expensive" - you should simply forget about the whole thing. Its a pipedream in my opinion.

About Thai lawyers. Please notice that that there are good ones and there are bad ones. When we bought our condo we had a personal friend and a Thai lawyer help us and you will soner and later have to find a lawyer too, you simply can't do without. And another point here. Our lawyer took care of everything, but one day the developer came with a bill that said "our share of the lift(s) was 100,000 Baht" to be added to the salesprice. Of course I was ready to fight the guy, but my wife paid the bill since we hadn't got our house registration yet at that time, and she didn't want any kind of problems. So even with good lawyers and professional help you can still run into problems if the seller think he or she "can run around corners with you".

However, if you really want to to "buy cheap and try to sell expensive" - you should simply forget about the whole thing. Its a pipedream in my opinion.

Aint that the truth.

Bkk and Thailand is full of them, flippers and Bob The Builder types, what worked in farangistan dont work here.

[BKKBobby]

BKKBobby

If you want to buy a second-hand condo for yourself and without a broker or middleman of any kind, you need to decide what area/district you want to buy in. Then walk from condo to condo in that area and talk to the office manager(s). Ask if any condo unit is for sale. Often you will hear from online posters that Thais generally don't like to buy second-hand themselves, so there may be units available, which are not being openly advertised, and the Condo Administrator will often know this.

My wife and I bought our condo 20 years ago and now, nearly each week people (actually Thais only) come to see our office manager and ask if there are any units for sale. Thais also don't like to pay the broker or middlemen any fees, so they use word-of-mouth and simply wait untill they get to know someone who is interested.

If it is true that you don't want a condo for investment, but for yourself, this is the only way I can see for you. However, if you really want to to "buy cheap and try to sell expensive" - you should simply forget about the whole thing. Its a pipedream in my opinion.

About Thai lawyers. Please notice that that there are good ones and there are bad ones. When we bought our condo we had a personal friend and a Thai lawyer help us and you will soner and later have to find a lawyer too, you simply can't do without. And another point here. Our lawyer took care of everything, but one day the developer came with a bill that said "our share of the lift(s) was 100,000 Baht" to be added to the salesprice. Of course I was ready to fight the guy, but my wife paid the bill since we hadn't got our house registration yet at that time, and she didn't want any kind of problems. So even with good lawyers and professional help you can still run into problems if the seller think he or she "can run around corners with you".

Thank you!

Me and my girlfriend have been running around Asoke looking at buildings we know about and finding buildings by luck and tried talking with the offices, all day out in the sun. Walking every single-sub soi finding buildings "too old" to be listed on internet. Yes, its truly a home, back in my home country, condoflipping was easy but I would never think about doing such things in Thailand. My original post was made because in my home country the agents are bound by law and the banks are connected directly in the process. Im afraid to receive a bunch of papers in exchange for 5 million baht. Of course I just want to own my home home for living. It will most likely loose value, the maintenance of the building wont be so good as to keep it in good shape for 100 years. My condo in Stockholm is in a 150 year old building in downtown, I know that a condo building in BKK probably is demolished in less than 100 years (much less than 100 years). I want to own the condo i renovate and decorate.

Someone said something about Monacco and 50 milion baht apartments in that place if I really didnt care about money.

I wont live in Monacco even if I could.

I love BKK

Well I cant buy Ferraris and Hublot watches and charter private jets but I can live a comfortable lifestyle and buy a condo if my condo gets old, travel and eat good etc.

Im not rich. The property I already own overseas I wont sell and I will inherit property overseas that I will never sell that I will let people rent in the future, as income.

Edited March 29, 2015 by BKKBobby

[BKKBobby]

So can anyone recommend a good lawyer? But if they rip me off you better find a new country to live. Classic.

Bobbybkk you have been on this forum to much this past week and you are starting to be a keyboard warrior. Go outside and get some air.. 2pm Monday @ exchange tower... lol

Im a successfull condoflipper by the way,

LOL.

Actually I am.

Anyway Im looking for a 45-65 square meter condo in Asoke.

The newer condos can be found pre-bargaining at 5 million baht for 45 sqm. Older ones at 4-5 million baht for 55-65sqm.

I have been living in 45-50sqm condos since I moved from my parents home. I want a pad, nothing more. I have a girlfriend and we are comfortable with this amount of space. Im not going to have children in the future.

Edited March 29, 2015 by BKKBobby