Are big bikes safer than scooters?

[seedy]

One Post Discussing Moderation Removed

[Gweiloman]

This is turning into quite a popular discussion, haven't checked in for a few days and now 6 pages or so, well done Gweil for casting the bait to bring all these good folks together to debate the issues concerning our safety

I always feel that's what forums are meant for. To discuss different ideas and opinions, to share knowledge and experience and in the process, learning to be a more skilled and safe rider. Hopefully this thread will cause all of us to pause and consider each time we get on our bikes that we are riding an inherently unsafe vehicle and therefore take the necessary precautions, be it safety gear or speed.

I'm shortly off to the land of chianti, pizza and pasta so won't be able to log on as often as I like. It's a pain having to jet all over but at least the upper deck of an Emirates A380 numbs some of it with copious amounts of food and booze. Hope the thread will continue running in my absence.

[longstebe]

What about the bigger scooters like the Forza or the Sym 300i?

Or do they have the same size wheels n brakes?

[wantan]

This is turning into quite a popular discussion, haven't checked in for a few days and now 6 pages or so, well done Gweil for casting the bait to bring all these good folks together to debate the issues concerning our safety

I always feel that's what forums are meant for. To discuss different ideas and opinions, to share knowledge and experience and in the process, learning to be a more skilled and safe rider. Hopefully this thread will cause all of us to pause and consider each time we get on our bikes that we are riding an inherently unsafe vehicle and therefore take the necessary precautions, be it safety gear or speed.

I'm shortly off to the land of chianti, pizza and pasta so won't be able to log on as often as I like. It's a pain having to jet all over but at least the upper deck of an Emirates A380 numbs some of it with copious amounts of food and booze. Hope the thread will continue running in my absence.

Yep, thanks to this thread, from now on i will pause and consider each time i get on my scooter that i am riding an inherently unsafe vehicle

Daredevil Wantan seeking for danger on his ride to the supermarket

[Gweiloman]

This is turning into quite a popular discussion, haven't checked in for a few days and now 6 pages or so, well done Gweil for casting the bait to bring all these good folks together to debate the issues concerning our safety

I always feel that's what forums are meant for. To discuss different ideas and opinions, to share knowledge and experience and in the process, learning to be a more skilled and safe rider. Hopefully this thread will cause all of us to pause and consider each time we get on our bikes that we are riding an inherently unsafe vehicle and therefore take the necessary precautions, be it safety gear or speed.

I'm shortly off to the land of chianti, pizza and pasta so won't be able to log on as often as I like. It's a pain having to jet all over but at least the upper deck of an Emirates A380 numbs some of it with copious amounts of food and booze. Hope the thread will continue running in my absence.

Yep, thanks to this thread, from now on i will pause and consider each time i get on my scooter that i am riding an inherently unsafe vehicle

Daredevil Wantan seeking for danger on his ride to the supermarket

Would be a lot less accidents and fatalities on the roads if everyone started doing that.

[Beardog]

A scooter has smaller brakes, tires, shorter wheelbase and so on, because its not made for higher speeds. Its made for easy, agile low speed handling. Bigger scooters (maxxiscooters) have bigger brakes and tires and wheelbase because they can go higher speeds. Every bike has brakes and specs that fit its pupose. Of course if you pay more you get better specs.

I just recall all the wrecks that get collected everytime a new big bike model gets on the market in thailand. All the new owners sure have ridden scooters at some point before. Then they get a new big bike and many of them crash in the first weeks. If they bought a new scooter i guess no one would crash. Seems all these better brakes dont help that much...

But OK, i give up now and agree with Gweiloman. Riding a Scooter is one of the last real adventures. Its so damned unsafe, better not even think about it or you will have nightmares

Wow!! You really don't get it do you? Your post talks about the riders, not the bikes.

To make it simple and easy for you to follow, think about your own situation. I understand that you own both a scooter and a 150 cc clutch bike. If you had to make a trip around Thailand of say 10,000 km or more, which would you choose, purely on the basis of safety?

Unfortunately G he will never get it because he does not have a clue. If he ever in his life had a big bike he wouldn't be talking the way he is about what is safe.Unfortunate but some are less informed.

[papa al]

IMO my 150cc clutch bike and my scooter are both safer than my 650 Kawi.

Rode scooter >10,000km around Thailand.

150cc clutch bike >10,000km around SE Asia.

Prefer the clutch-bike mainly for increased fuel tankage, not safety.

But I'm clueless, unfortunately, & uninformed too, I guess.

[wantan]

^

No, if you own a big bike but still do not agree with them it also shows you lack experience, because every experienced rider does agree. The logic of trolls.

[Gweiloman]

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IMO my 150cc clutch bike and my scooter are both safer than my 650 Kawi.

Rode scooter >10,000km around Thailand.

150cc clutch bike >10,000km around SE Asia.

Prefer the clutch-bike mainly for increased fuel tankage, not safety.

But I'm clueless, unfortunately, & uninformed too, I guess.

^
No, if you own a big bike but still do not agree with them it also shows you lack experience, because every experienced rider does agree. The logic of trolls.

Why do you feel that your scooter is safer than your big bike? There have been various posts giving reasons why the owners feel that their big bikes are safer (handling, wheels, acceleration, brakes etc). It would be good to hear from both of you why you feel that your scooter is safer.

[wantan]

No, if you own a big bike but still do not agree with them it also shows you lack experience, because every experienced rider does agree. The logic of trolls.

Why do you feel that your scooter is safer than your big bike? There have been various posts giving reasons why the owners feel that their big bikes are safer (handling, wheels, acceleration, brakes etc). It would be good to hear from both of you why you feel that your scooter is safer.

I never said that a scooter is safer. Why always trying to put words in my mouth? Reread the thread as suggested before.

[Dutchbike]

This thread turned out to be a quite interesting discussion. With most of the posters agree with the fact that it all comes down to the rider ( and his/her common sense)and of course his/her skill level.
I believe, you can't say a big bike is safer then a scooter or the other way around.
All bikes big or small are made to meet certain safety standards, brakes, tyres etc etc. of course with better components on the big bikes. Ridden within there safety zone ( speed) they all perform well and are not unsafe. Again: It's the rider.
As an experiment just give 100 scooter riders a Big bike and see what happens, I'm pretty sure you will see a lot of accidents due to the high performance of a big bike, when riders are not used to that they will crash even though such a big bike has got better brakes/handling etc, makes that a big bike unsafe ? No I don't think so. Adapt your riding style on what your riding.
IMO sometimes big bikes on public ( Thai) roads can be potential more dangerous since the temptation of using their power is hard to resist, and they can get you in "trouble" much faster.
Most of us here ride both and I feel perfectly OK on both ( well, if you consider a 250 a big bike )

[papa al]

Big bike go too fast (like crazy fast).

Kinetic energy goes up with the square of speed.

BB tough to handle at slow speeds.

Less chance of falling when mounting & dismounting scooter.

Less chance of breaking thru a flimsy bridge on a lighter bike?

If you fall & bike is on top of you, then big is bad.

Would you rather be T-boned when riding a scooter

or a proper bike (crushed femur, &c.)

Ask E-room personnel that.

I don wanna hit a dog, kid, or snake....

I've hit over 150kph on my 150cc.

Can you imagine what a menace papa'd be riding a 650 around here?

Less is more.

[AllanB]

Big bike go too fast (like crazy fast).

Kinetic energy goes up with the square of speed.

BB tough to handle at slow speeds.

Less chance of falling when mounting & dismounting scooter.

Less chance of breaking thru a flimsy bridge on a lighter bike?

If you fall & bike is on top of you, then big is bad.

Would you rather be T-boned when riding a scooter

or a proper bike (crushed femur, &c.)

Ask E-room personnel that.

I don wanna hit a dog, kid, or snake....

I've hit over 150kph on my 150cc.

Can you imagine what a menace papa'd be riding a 650 around here?

Less is more.

I thought speed was quite cool in Thailand, not at all square IMO.

Brigit Bardot is a little to old to be handled these days Papa. You don't wanna do that.

I ran over a snake, not a problem, well not for me anyway?

But you have a 650 don't you, you ride all over the shop on your 150, so what's the biggy used for?

How can less be more, more is more, surely? Try to keep up.......

[papa al]

Sorry that you cannot appreciate the buddhist perspective my son.

Colorado.

[AllanB]

Sorry that you cannot appreciate the buddhist perspective my son.

Colorado.

...........or the kid who's mother ate GM food during pregnancy.

[andrewrooney]

I'm trying to figure out what Colorado means in this context.

Little hint?

Or will it make sense when I'm sober on Friday?

[Dutchbike]

I'm trying to figure out what Colorado means in this context.

Little hint?

Or will it make sense when I'm sober on Friday?

I guess that's were papa rides his 650

[andrewrooney]

I'm trying to figure out what Colorado means in this context.

Little hint?

Or will it make sense when I'm sober on Friday?

I guess that's were papa rides his 650

aaaaahhhh

excuse my Sangsom fueled Songkran retardation

[Gweiloman]

I'm trying to figure out what Colorado means in this context.

Little hint?

Or will it make sense when I'm sober on Friday?

I guess that's were papa rides his 650

aaaaahhhh

excuse my Sangsom fueled Songkran retardation

Even in my rare moments of sobriety, I have no idea what papa's trying to say. I put it down to his third eye.

[Gweiloman]

In a moment of clarity inspired by my good black friend, Johnny, I realised that this thread should be whether big bike riders are safer than scooter riders, Yes, it's about the rider more so than the bike (although it's undisputed that a rider of both a scooter and a big bike would be safer on the latter).

There are some big bike riders in Thailand who are plain reckless - they tend to be the minority. But on the whole, big bike riders are safer (and better riders) than scooter riders. How many times have we seen a scooter rider cut across lanes with nary a care as to whom might be coming up from the rear? How often does this result in a rear ender?

BB riders on the other hand don't worry about this, simple because they are riding ahead of the traffic. How many times do we read about BB's being rear ended? I've not come across one such incident. To me, this proves conclusively that BB riders are, on the whole, safer than scooter riders.

So, to the scooter only club, please take extra care when cutting across lanes to execute a u-turn. Take extra care too when overtaking a truck trailer, especially when near a u-turn (see thread "Injuries" in case you are confused).

I've decided that my PCX will only be for and around Bkk. If I have to venture into other provinces, I will be on my BB.

[papa al]

In a moment of clarity inspired by my good black friend, Johnny, I realised that this thread should be whether big bike riders are safer than scooter riders, Yes, it's about the rider more so than the bike (although it's undisputed that a rider of both a scooter and a big bike would be safer on the latter).

BB riders on the other hand don't worry about this, simple because they are riding ahead of the traffic. How many times do we read about BB's being rear ended? I've not come across one such incident. To me, this proves conclusively that BB riders are, on the whole, safer than scooter riders.

.

1. Undisputed? Remember it takes only one black sheep to prove that all sheep are not white.

2. Data from USA indicate that he commonest serious injuries & deaths to bike riders occur from cars rear-ending cyclists who are stopped.

Wantan & Dutchbiker: please stop making sense;

it confuses & upsets the dogmatists & alcoholics & maybe Allan.

Edited April 16, 2015 by papa al

[AllanB]

In a moment of clarity inspired by my good black friend, Johnny, I realised that this thread should be whether big bike riders are safer than scooter riders, Yes, it's about the rider more so than the bike (although it's undisputed that a rider of both a scooter and a big bike would be safer on the latter).

BB riders on the other hand don't worry about this, simple because they are riding ahead of the traffic. How many times do we read about BB's being rear ended? I've not come across one such incident. To me, this proves conclusively that BB riders are, on the whole, safer than scooter riders.

.

1. Undisputed? Remember it takes only one black sheep to prove that all sheep are not white.

2. Data from USA indicate that he commonest serious injuries & deaths to bike riders occur from cars rear-ending cyclists who are stopped.

Wantan & Dutchbiker: please stop making sense;

it confuses & upsets the dogmatists & alcoholics & maybe Allan.

Hey, what's the idea of singling me out like that you 3 eyed whatchumacallit......?

Why can't I be an alcoholic dog-mat?

I wish you would change that avatar, it makes me feel drunk.......how about this?

[mark131v]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

In a moment of clarity inspired by my good black friend, Johnny, I realised that this thread should be whether big bike riders are safer than scooter riders, Yes, it's about the rider more so than the bike (although it's undisputed that a rider of both a scooter and a big bike would be safer on the latter).

BB riders on the other hand don't worry about this, simple because they are riding ahead of the traffic. How many times do we read about BB's being rear ended? I've not come across one such incident. To me, this proves conclusively that BB riders are, on the whole, safer than scooter riders.

.

1. Undisputed? Remember it takes only one black sheep to prove that all sheep are not white.

2. Data from USA indicate that he commonest serious injuries & deaths to bike riders occur from cars rear-ending cyclists who are stopped.

Wantan & Dutchbiker: please stop making sense;

it confuses & upsets the dogmatists & alcoholics & maybe Allan.

The reason for the US stats is their retarded laws on filtering through traffic where the motorcycle just has to sit in traffic thus building up congestion and waiting for some car driver to run in the back of them, I have no proof but I would think that if you checked the stats from the civilized world where filtering is allowed (ie most of it!!) the number of deaths and injuries from being rear ended would be way less

On a separate note the missus ran over a big dog on her ninja 250, it appeared from nowhere and she ended up going over it, it was sad but there was nothing she could do about and I watched the whole thing happen in front of me, no damage to the bike and no accident probably due to her not having time to panic but I think it would have been a very different story on a moped

[mark131v]

Some good stuff on filtering well worth a look at the link at the bottom to the ridetowork. org survey

http://www.mbike.com/news/2011/07/study-lane-splitting-is-safe/

http://www.ridetowork.org/files/docs/LANE_SHARING_A_GLOBAL_SOLUTION_FOR_MOTORCYCLE_SAFETY.pdf?utm_source=Ride+To+Work+-+Main&utm_campaign=9bf87c1b14-RTW_7_25_2011_main&utm_medium=email

Edited April 16, 2015 by mark131v

[ttakata]

I'd say big bikes are safer than scooters outside of downtown BKK.

If you can go fast, then you need the better chassis.

Since I only ride in BKK; I prefer a small scooter with big wheels since traffic is the biggest obstacle.

Ideally a street legal KTM 500EXC would be the safest since it weighs only 111kg, has 300mm of suspension, and a 19" front wheel.

KTM 690 Enduro seems the safest to me for legal riding.

[Pundi6446]

It all depends on the right hand, and a persons frigging mental state. Is a skateboard safer then a car, use same precautions, of your brain, some people just don't belong outdoors.

[papa al]

It all depends on the right hand, and a persons frigging mental state. Is a skateboard safer then a car, use same precautions, of your brain, some people just don't belong outdoors.

Maybe cut back on the inter-web porn?

[papa al]

"The reason for the US stats is their retarded laws on filtering through traffic where the motorcycle just has to sit in traffic thus building up congestion and waiting for some car driver to run in the back of them, I have no proof but I would think that if you checked the stats from the civilized world where filtering is allowed (ie most of it!!) the number of deaths and injuries from being rear ended would be way less

On a separate note the missus ran over a big dog on her ninja 250, it appeared from nowhere and she ended up going over it, it was sad but there was nothing she could do about and I watched the whole thing happen in front of me, no damage to the bike and no accident probably due to her not having time to panic but I think it would have been a very different story on a moped"

**********************

Yes, California is the only state that allows filtering, hence the carnage continues in 49.

When it comes to running over dogs, I'd say a motocross, enduro or dual sport would be safer.

21" front wheels ++.

[SwedeOnSamui]

It's strange no one talk about riding position and/or if a streetbike or scooter as in design is better to have a collition with. If it's a car, maybe it don't care at all, but let's say one of those stupid dogs runs out in front of you?

When it comes to design as in weight and brakes, let's say I drive a Honda Forza 300cc. The weight is 199 kg (438 pounds), top speed around 90 mph and has both ABS and CBS brakes (one front brake piston activates when breaking the rear brake). So talking about bad brakes, low speed and other factors do not neccesery has to be so diffrent.

And can we please not talk about diffrent drivers, experience and how they drive and just think of it like one normal guy who rides in Thailand and drive both models...

Jacob

[kannot]

"slipped recently in ice like conditions"

?

Driving in his freezer?