Thai editorial: Invoking Article 44 THROWS DOUBT on junta's competence

[taony]

This doesn't throw doubt on the junta's competence. We all ready know it has no competence.

[wabothai]

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Someone should study the history of the Philippines under Marcos and see how that ended economically and politically in the mid 1980's. Not a pretty sight.

Why not study that other dictator Lee Kuan Yew in Singapore? Didn't you ever wonder why he is getting all the good press now upon his demise?

He and his family and appointees ruled Singapore from 1959 to the present day. How come you don't know about that or have anything bad to say about the dramatic rise in the economy and standard of living of Singapore from third world to first world?

Is it because you don't know anything about Asia or are you just uneducated?

prajuth is not in the same leaque

[NongKhaiKid]

Considering how close the Nation Group is to the centre of power, this may be a pointer towards serious rumblings of unhappiness behind the scenes. This sort of editorial does not appear unapproved. Herr General seems to have overstepped the mark.

Hope you are right.

That is, if it doesn't lead to a counter coup!!

Can't be discounted if he starts screwing things up for the elite who will easily persuade another military type to step up and what self respecting military man doesn't fancy running the country especially as he knows he can do a better job and it's all for the good of the country anyway.

Hence the need for removing martial law perhaps. The significant difference between martial law and article 44 is it has transferred power away from the military to Prayuth directly.

Let's not forget too that it was reported Prayuth had supposedly put more than his tuppence worth into what he wanted during the annual military reshuffle.

It's one thing making sure your people get plum promotions etc but it'a handful compared to those that get upset by being left out or having their own chosen people ignored and nothing could be worse these days than a disgruntled senior military officer.

i would think the PM will start looking over his shoulder more and more and that makes him even more dangerous if he feels threatened and decides to respond.

[heybruce]

The only way to have a proper D word is to not care what the international community thinks.

That way a country can be isolationist, throw its people into poverty, and totally stifle the press. See N. Korea, Cuba, and even the collapse of the Soviet Union.

International sanctions are placed in every area from import/export to tourism and everything dies.

The Thais aren't ready to be isolationist with little if any foreign trade and tourism etc. They depend too much on it.

The leader should look up the word "checkmate." Bad times are ahead for Thailand.

I think condition Burma/Myanmar was in until a few years ago is the best indicator of where Thailand will go under the generals.

[sawadee1947]

It is time to face the possibility that what this junta lacks is not power, but the basic ability to govern.

Not only this junta but the serial juntas over the last 70 some-odd years....

And to think that some people blame the last government for all of Thailand's woes...

It is time to face the possibility that what this junta lacks is not power, but the basic ability to govern.

How shall they know to make it better than other governments before?? Learning by history in this country? If so they are on the right track...Unbelievable!

[ourmanflint]

To be honest the proposed main targets of this article 44 will be the press, and that is the only reason they are up in arms about it, and why they are trying to make everyone else as agitated about it as they are. The press in Thailand are a pretty useless, pseudo-intellectual wannabes, maybe if they were better at their jobs, actually doing research and in depth reporting, the General probably would not be so touchy.

[ldiablo]

This article hits the nail directly on the head. Very well written and accurate.

[rubl]

The only way to have a proper D word is to not care what the international community thinks.

That way a country can be isolationist, throw its people into poverty, and totally stifle the press. See N. Korea, Cuba, and even the collapse of the Soviet Union.

International sanctions are placed in every area from import/export to tourism and everything dies.

The Thais aren't ready to be isolationist with little if any foreign trade and tourism etc. They depend too much on it.

The leader should look up the word "checkmate." Bad times are ahead for Thailand.

I think condition Burma/Myanmar was in until a few years ago is the best indicator of where Thailand will go under the generals.

Now before I make a mistake in interpreting what you wrote here, can you tell what condition Myanmar was in, what was wrong with that and why you think that all is the 'best indicator' of where Thailand will go under the generals.

Thanks

[rubl]

Hope you are right.

That is, if it doesn't lead to a counter coup!!

Can't be discounted if he starts screwing things up for the elite who will easily persuade another military type to step up and what self respecting military man doesn't fancy running the country especially as he knows he can do a better job and it's all for the good of the country anyway.

Hence the need for removing martial law perhaps. The significant difference between martial law and article 44 is it has transferred power away from the military to Prayuth directly.

Let's not forget too that it was reported Prayuth had supposedly put more than his tuppence worth into what he wanted during the annual military reshuffle.

It's one thing making sure your people get plum promotions etc but it'a handful compared to those that get upset by being left out or having their own chosen people ignored and nothing could be worse these days than a disgruntled senior military officer.

i would think the PM will start looking over his shoulder more and more and that makes him even more dangerous if he feels threatened and decides to respond.

and all this based on 'was reported that supposedly'.

[Gweiloman]

Someone should study the history of the Philippines under Marcos and see how that ended economically and politically in the mid 1980's. Not a pretty sight.

Why not study that other dictator Lee Kuan Yew in Singapore? Didn't you ever wonder why he is getting all the good press now upon his demise?

He and his family and appointees ruled Singapore from 1959 to the present day. How come you don't know about that or have anything bad to say about the dramatic rise in the economy and standard of living of Singapore from third world to first world?

Is it because you don't know anything about Asia or are you just uneducated?

If you think that Singapore (and Singaporeans) and Thailand (and Thais) are even remotely alike, then you either don't know anything about Asia or are uneducated (or both).

[DM07]

The only way to have a proper D word is to not care what the international community thinks.

That way a country can be isolationist, throw its people into poverty, and totally stifle the press. See N. Korea, Cuba, and even the collapse of the Soviet Union.

International sanctions are placed in every area from import/export to tourism and everything dies.

The Thais aren't ready to be isolationist with little if any foreign trade and tourism etc. They depend too much on it.

The leader should look up the word "checkmate." Bad times are ahead for Thailand.

I think condition Burma/Myanmar was in until a few years ago is the best indicator of where Thailand will go under the generals.

Now before I make a mistake in interpreting what you wrote here, can you tell what condition Myanmar was in, what was wrong with that and why you think that all is the 'best indicator' of where Thailand will go under the generals.

Thanks

What was wrong with that?

Is that an attempt on prayutism (being funny like Prayuth)?

You must be kidding!

[yellowboat]

Someone should study the history of the Philippines under Marcos and see how that ended economically and politically in the mid 1980's. Not a pretty sight.

Why not study that other dictator Lee Kuan Yew in Singapore? Didn't you ever wonder why he is getting all the good press now upon his demise?

He and his family and appointees ruled Singapore from 1959 to the present day. How come you don't know about that or have anything bad to say about the dramatic rise in the economy and standard of living of Singapore from third world to first world?

Is it because you don't know anything about Asia or are you just uneducated?

There's a lottery winner every week. But only a fool would bet their house on winning the lottery. If historical precedent is anything to go by, the odds on good or benign dictatorial government (especially military dictatorial government) are dire.

Singapore won the lottery. That's no reason whatsoever to suppose that Thailand will do the same.

"Singapore won the lottery." Singapore is not even in the same league as Taiwan. The Taiwanese hold their political process and freedoms sacred.and that includes the military. Singapore may have more money per person, but its political system is no where near Taiwan. The Thai elite may want to one day see how the learned run a country.

Edited April 3, 2015 by yellowboat

[Acharn]

The only way to have a proper D word is to not care what the international community thinks.

That way a country can be isolationist, throw its people into poverty, and totally stifle the press. See N. Korea, Cuba, and even the collapse of the Soviet Union.

International sanctions are placed in every area from import/export to tourism and everything dies.

The Thais aren't ready to be isolationist with little if any foreign trade and tourism etc. They depend too much on it.

The leader should look up the word "checkmate." Bad times are ahead for Thailand.

Unfortunately whether or not the Thais are ready to be isolationist, or indeed want to be isolationist doesn't come into it. As the OP says Prayut has the power to do anything he deems necessary to meet the government's goals. In other words, Prayut has enjoyed absolute power - executive, judicial and legislative - since he ousted an elected government last May.

Yes, there's nothing new about this. I've wondered why the anti-Thaksin people hadn't noticed, but they all seemed to be so fixated on "Thaksin is evil!" and "The last government almost destroyed the country." Well, months ago this interim charter was revealed, and this is what it said. General Prayut assures us he will only use this absolute power for good, and of course I believe him, but who is going to be the head of the junta five years from now? Will he be as sweet and lovable as General Prayut? Is General Prayut going to promote himself to Field Marshall?

Edited April 3, 2015 by Acharn

[NeverSure]

The Vatican is a money machine supported by donors from all over the world. Up to them.

The other three you mentioned have horrible incomes per capita. Very few hi so's among the people. The people are poor and stifled.

There are more than 1 million millionaires in China, defined as those with at least 10 million yuan, roughly $1.6 million.

Their ranks grew 3.8 percent from a year earlier, to 1,090,000. Meanwhile, the number of super-rich, those with at least 100 million yuan ($16 million), grew 3.7 percent to 67,000. Those numbers are expected to rise to more than 1.2 million millionaires and 73,000 super-rich in the next three years, predicts Hurun.

www.bloomberg.com/.../where-chinas-millionaires-live-and-how-they-g...

Geez.

The income per capita in Australia is ten times as much as China. LINK

With a population of 1.3 billion people, your 1 million privileged people are a drop in the bucket.

The average person in China has 1/10th the income the average Australian has.

[lildragon]

The only way to have a proper D word is to not care what the international community thinks.

That way a country can be isolationist, throw its people into poverty, and totally stifle the press. See N. Korea, Cuba, and even the collapse of the Soviet Union.

International sanctions are placed in every area from import/export to tourism and everything dies.

The Thais aren't ready to be isolationist with little if any foreign trade and tourism etc. They depend too much on it.

The leader should look up the word "checkmate." Bad times are ahead for Thailand.

Unfortunately whether or not the Thais are ready to be isolationist, or indeed want to be isolationist doesn't come into it. As the OP says Prayut has the power to do anything he deems necessary to meet the government's goals. In other words, Prayut has enjoyed absolute power - executive, judicial and legislative - since he ousted an elected government last May.

Yes, there's nothing new about this. I've wondered why the anti-Thaksin people hadn't noticed, but they all seemed to be so fixated on "Thaksin is evil!" and "The last government almost destroyed the country." Well, months ago this interim charter was revealed, and this is what it said. General Prayut assures us he will only use this absolute power for good, and of course I believe him, but who is going to be the head of the junta five years from now? Will he be as sweet and lovable as General Prayut? Is General Prayut going to promote himself to Field Marshall?

Please tell me the part I have made bold is wonderful sarcasm?

[JAG]

Singapore and they have had a dictatorship for 56 years.

Really. I thought Singapore was a parliamentary representative democratic republic with elections every 6 years. I thought the leaders were directly elected by the people.

Yew's article 44 was the, "Internal Security Act" a holdover from Singapore’s colonial past. He arrested all of his political opponents with no charges or evidence. Run against Yew and you went to jail. Yew was a dictator, an anti communist dictator but still a dictator. How do you think one family stays in power for 60 years? Democratic elections? You gotta be kidding.

Sadly I rhink we may be about to find out.

[heybruce]

The only way to have a proper D word is to not care what the international community thinks.

That way a country can be isolationist, throw its people into poverty, and totally stifle the press. See N. Korea, Cuba, and even the collapse of the Soviet Union.

International sanctions are placed in every area from import/export to tourism and everything dies.

The Thais aren't ready to be isolationist with little if any foreign trade and tourism etc. They depend too much on it.

The leader should look up the word "checkmate." Bad times are ahead for Thailand.

I think condition Burma/Myanmar was in until a few years ago is the best indicator of where Thailand will go under the generals.

Now before I make a mistake in interpreting what you wrote here, can you tell what condition Myanmar was in, what was wrong with that and why you think that all is the 'best indicator' of where Thailand will go under the generalss

Thanks

Unbelievable. Are you that out of touch?

In a nutshell, the Burmese/Myanmar generals refused to relinquish power following the decisive May 1990 election victory of the National League for Democracy Party led by Aung San Kuu Kyi. Aung San Suu Kyi spent most of the next twenty years under house arrest while the generals stayed in power through brutal suppression of all dissent, mismanaged the economy into the ground, and made themselves very rich. Beginning in 2011 they began to relax their grip, probably because they couldn't loot any more. I found the following instructive:

"Under British colonial rule, Burma was the richest country in Southeast Asia, awash in rubies, oil, and valuable timber. Sadly, after decades of mismanagement by post-independence dictators, Myanmar has become one of the poorest nations in the world."

"Estimates of the per capita income are unreliable, but it is probably about $230 US."

http://asianhistory.about.com/od/burmamyanmar/p/ProfileBurma.htm

That puts the annual per capita GDP of this potentially rich country at about one half the monthly per capita GDP of Thailand. http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD

You can check the internet for more information. You can even learn where Myanmar is if you're not sure.

Here's the really scary part--apparently the junta considers Myanmar to be a role model. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/04/us-thailand-politics-idUSKBN0F90VB20140704

[baboon]

Heybruce: Don't you see what rubl is doing? He is getting you to do all this running around and then he will just take potshots at your responses/links. There's no point - he isn't interested and his mind is made up anyway.

Just ask him his personal opinion without all the 'some might say', 'But didn't the previous government...?' prattle and off he scurries to his hidey hole...

[lostoday]

The Vatican is a money machine supported by donors from all over the world. Up to them.

The other three you mentioned have horrible incomes per capita. Very few hi so's among the people. The people are poor and stifled.

There are more than 1 million millionaires in China, defined as those with at least 10 million yuan, roughly $1.6 million.

Their ranks grew 3.8 percent from a year earlier, to 1,090,000. Meanwhile, the number of super-rich, those with at least 100 million yuan ($16 million), grew 3.7 percent to 67,000. Those numbers are expected to rise to more than 1.2 million millionaires and 73,000 super-rich in the next three years, predicts Hurun.

www.bloomberg.com/.../where-chinas-millionaires-live-and-how-they-g...

Geez.

The income per capita in Australia is ten times as much as China. LINK

With a population of 1.3 billion people, your 1 million privileged people are a drop in the bucket.

The average person in China has 1/10th the income the average Australian has.

You wrote, "Very few hi so's among the people."

Number of million dollar households. You said nothing about per capita hi so people.

1 United States 7,135,000

2 China 2,378,000

3. Japan 1,240,000

4 United Kingdom 513,000

5 Switzerland 435,000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millionaire

[Srikcir]

It is time to face the possibility that what this junta lacks is not power, but the basic ability to govern.

Not only this junta but the serial juntas over the last 70 some-odd years....

And to think that some people blame the last government for all of Thailand's woes...

"some people blame the last government for all of Thailand's woes"

I've not seen that, I think most of us realise that the corruption & mis-management go back much further, however some administrations seem better than others at rooting some of it out.

So it's a matter of poor-government, versus totally-inept ones, and how much they ever deliver from the pretty words & promises. At least the daily shootings/bombings (excluding the South ... which is a separate situation) have been stopped for now, barring a few idiots.

In an ideal democratic world, there would be someone honest & competent to lead the country, but I can't currently see who that might be. And whether they'd be permitted to do so, by the amart or military or Thaksin's bunch, is debateable.

Sometimes one has to choose the less-bad option in life, until a better one comes along.

That applies to any country. Especially the US, being the largest promoter of "democracy". Can Americans govern? It does not appear so. And I say that as an American. So, incompetence at the National level is a worldwide issue. Please suggest some examples if you are aware of a few well governed nations. Perhaps in Scandinavia?

The US

[lostoday]

That applies to any country. Especially the US, being the largest promoter of "democracy". Can Americans govern? It does not appear so. And I say that as an American. So, incompetence at the National level is a worldwide issue. Please suggest some examples if you are aware of a few well governed nations. Perhaps in Scandinavia?

The US

Lee Kuan Yew put the opposition in jail and caned and hung lawbreakers and has done pretty well for the last 60 years. Perhaps his family is available to consult for a fee. I know a lot of people from Singapore who like to vacation in Thailand.

[Tokay]

Time for the general and his comrades to call it quits and leave the stage.

You mean, get out of the center ring.

[JAG]

That applies to any country. Especially the US, being the largest promoter of "democracy". Can Americans govern? It does not appear so. And I say that as an American. So, incompetence at the National level is a worldwide issue. Please suggest some examples if you are aware of a few well governed nations. Perhaps in Scandinavia?

The US

Lee Kuan Yew put the opposition in jail and caned and hung lawbreakers and has done pretty well for the last 60 years. Perhaps his family is available to consult for a fee. I know a lot of people from Singapore who like to vacation in Thailand.

Possibly because they don't get caned for chewing gum?

[Snig27]

That applies to any country. Especially the US, being the largest promoter of "democracy". Can Americans govern? It does not appear so. And I say that as an American. So, incompetence at the National level is a worldwide issue. Please suggest some examples if you are aware of a few well governed nations. Perhaps in Scandinavia?

The US

Lee Kuan Yew put the opposition in jail and caned and hung lawbreakers and has done pretty well for the last 60 years. Perhaps his family is available to consult for a fee. I know a lot of people from Singapore who like to vacation in Thailand.

LKY was also quite clear - the military should always be subservient to the civilian government.

[englishoak]

That applies to any country. Especially the US, being the largest promoter of "democracy". Can Americans govern? It does not appear so. And I say that as an American. So, incompetence at the National level is a worldwide issue. Please suggest some examples if you are aware of a few well governed nations. Perhaps in Scandinavia?

The US

Lee Kuan Yew put the opposition in jail and caned and hung lawbreakers and has done pretty well for the last 60 years. Perhaps his family is available to consult for a fee. I know a lot of people from Singapore who like to vacation in Thailand.

LKY was also quite clear - the military should always be subservient to the civilian government.

Lets just say PMP is no LKY ... thats for sure

[Docno]

Someone should study the history of the Philippines under Marcos and see how that ended economically and politically in the mid 1980's. Not a pretty sight.

Why not study that other dictator Lee Kuan Yew in Singapore? Didn't you ever wonder why he is getting all the good press now upon his demise?

He and his family and appointees ruled Singapore from 1959 to the present day. How come you don't know about that or have anything bad to say about the dramatic rise in the economy and standard of living of Singapore from third world to first world?

Is it because you don't know anything about Asia or are you just uneducated?

Interestingly, LKY had good things to say about Thaksin as a leader, and based on clear rationale (that you may or may not agree with), not on business transactions that had taken place between the two countries.

[rubl]

Heybruce: Don't you see what rubl is doing? He is getting you to do all this running around and then he will just take potshots at your responses/links. There's no point - he isn't interested and his mind is made up anyway.

Just ask him his personal opinion without all the 'some might say', 'But didn't the previous government...?' prattle and off he scurries to his hidey hole...

What you write here seems your personal opinion. That's fine.

Greetings from my hidey hole,

uncle rubl

PS "Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort."

[rubl]

The only way to have a proper D word is to not care what the international community thinks.

That way a country can be isolationist, throw its people into poverty, and totally stifle the press. See N. Korea, Cuba, and even the collapse of the Soviet Union.

International sanctions are placed in every area from import/export to tourism and everything dies.

The Thais aren't ready to be isolationist with little if any foreign trade and tourism etc. They depend too much on it.

The leader should look up the word "checkmate." Bad times are ahead for Thailand.

I think condition Burma/Myanmar was in until a few years ago is the best indicator of where Thailand will go under the generals.

Now before I make a mistake in interpreting what you wrote here, can you tell what condition Myanmar was in, what was wrong with that and why you think that all is the 'best indicator' of where Thailand will go under the generalss

Thanks

Unbelievable. Are you that out of touch?

In a nutshell, the Burmese/Myanmar generals refused to relinquish power following the decisive May 1990 election victory of the National League for Democracy Party led by Aung San Kuu Kyi. Aung San Suu Kyi spent most of the next twenty years under house arrest while the generals stayed in power through brutal suppression of all dissent, mismanaged the economy into the ground, and made themselves very rich. Beginning in 2011 they began to relax their grip, probably because they couldn't loot any more. I found the following instructive:

"Under British colonial rule, Burma was the richest country in Southeast Asia, awash in rubies, oil, and valuable timber. Sadly, after decades of mismanagement by post-independence dictators, Myanmar has become one of the poorest nations in the world."

"Estimates of the per capita income are unreliable, but it is probably about $230 US."

http://asianhistory.about.com/od/burmamyanmar/p/ProfileBurma.htm

That puts the annual per capita GDP of this potentially rich country at about one half the monthly per capita GDP of Thailand. http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD

You can check the internet for more information. You can even learn where Myanmar is if you're not sure.

Here's the really scary part--apparently the junta considers Myanmar to be a role model. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/04/us-thailand-politics-idUSKBN0F90VB20140704

Out of touch? My dear fellow let me tell you that I'm aware some people think that one of the biggest mistakes in history was 'decolonisation'.

BTW the reuters article deals with how the NCPO stated to see itself regarding the May 22nd coup. Allegedly since the article has only

""Myanmar had a similar experience to us in 1988, so they understand," said Tanasak Patimapragorn, supreme commander of Thailand's armed forces, following a visit to Bangkok by Myanmar's army chief.""

To me that's not the same as considering Myanmar a role model.

[rubl]

Now before too many fans get disappointed, here is my opinion on the topic.

The most important sentence in the editirial seems to be

"And unless the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) uses it in a constructive manner, it risks exacerbating the political crisis."

[baboon]

Now before too many fans get disappointed, here is my opinion on the topic.

The most important sentence in the editirial seems to be

"And unless the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) uses it in a constructive manner, it risks exacerbating the political crisis."

That is less like expressing an opinion and more like waving your hand vaguely in the direction your opinion may lie.

Be very careful tonight, rubl. I have just been absolutely thrashed at poker and am in an exceedingly grumpy and petulant mood...??????

Edited April 4, 2015 by baboon