Prayuth Asks Media to Expose Redshirt Violence in 2010 Crackdown

[MacWalen]

He means he wants the media to tell the "sanitized" version of events according to him. Never mind what the actual truth is.

You speak out of ignorance or what? I was there, I saw with my own eyes how red shirt were burning, looting, throwing Molotov cocktails and other acts of violence. Those red thugs caused the problems, not the army!

[rubl]

Thaksin supports were around before the UDD, but the UDD / red shirts did not exist before the 2006 coup.

Their network did exist before the coup. Same people, different name. When the anti-Thaksin supporters took it to the street, before the 2006 coup, they were already under attack from this group. They beat up children and elderly (attack on PAD on August 21, 2006 at Central World), attacked and laid siege of the Nation Tower (newspaper) by the 'Caravan of the Poor'. Thaksin's political machine had already mobilized his motor taxi gangs that formed his intelligence and intimidation on the streets of Bangkok. There have been fierce battles between PAD security and those motor taxi boys (including shootings).

The seeds of what later was united in the red-shirts/UDD was already there, even when he was PM. They did his dirty work, intimidate his opponents.

um yeah, sure...

nah, not really, that's just BS... But it is an interesting angle... I've seen more than one poster try to create that fantasy.

Same people, nothing new.

Japuporn joined TRT 1998, Nattawut joined 2005, Veera was TRT executive, Dr. weng joined Chamlong against PM Thaksin in 2006, but split later that year.

Dr. weng is an interesting chap. Already protested in 1972 and 1976, joined the Communist party, has some education in Vietnam, received amnesty, protested in 1992. This theNation article gives some insight

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/28/opinion/opinion_30091997.php

[rubl]

A (very) minor correction if I may. Nothing really serious.

"Over 100,000 people come to Bangkok to protest an illegitimate government"

should be

"Over 100,000 people come to Bangkok to protest a government they consider illegitimate"

How is appointing Mr. Non Event or Mark legitimate ? He did the right thing ((held elections) and guess what happened? You can stand on your elitist soap box as long as you want, but nobody will believe it.

The answer to this I already included in my

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/816472-prayuth-asks-media-to-expose-redshirt-violence-in-2010-crackdown/page-6#entry9295510

You seem to have missed that. The relevant part was

""BANGKOK: -- Democrat party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva, aged 44, has become the 27th and youngest prime minister of Thailand after receiving 235 votes from 431 MPs at the extraordinary parliamentary session on Monday.

Another candidate nominated by the Puea Thai party, Puea Pandin leader Pracha Promnok, obtained 198 votes.""

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/229705-abhisit-vejjajiva-elected-new-prime-minister-of-thailand/page-3#entry2406489

Must be hard to vote freely with a gun pointed to your head, eh?

Probably. That's why people were surprised that former MoFA Surapong suggested the Military declare Martial Law in order to have an election. not that we had such problems in December 2007.

[tonbridgebrit]

Do you mean this ransom of BKK and international flights? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/nov/26/peoples-alliance-for-democracy

This is exactly what I said about some posters being so desperate and vainly clutching at straws, when trying to defend the actions of a terrorist organization.

(An illegal group that would all be put behind bars if they raised their ugly heads "back ome".)

Posting seven year old articles from the Guardian no least.

Why don't you throw in a few links to Asian Correspondent and Bangkok Pundit while you are at it ?

mikemac, what are you talking about ??

Are you trying to say that a bunch of Thai men with red t-shirts are the bad guys, and that they would be arrested if this was "back home" ?

Please realise, the Thai men in the red t-shirts are people who are backing Thaksin. And basically, if Thaksin was back being in charge of Thailand, well, it means that places like Europe, USA and Australia would be back to having full links with Thailand. It's BECAUSE Thaksin is not in charge, that's why the governments back home (Britain, Europe, USA, Australia, etc) are not happy. That's why they're refusing to have full links with Thailand.

What's the difference between a Thailand that is run by Thaksin, and a Thailad that is not run by Thaksin ? Well, Thailand run by Thaksin will be looking at China AND the West, and playing the two sides off each other. As in, collect the benefits from China and the West. Thailand not having Thaksin wil not be able to have full links with America and Europe. Thailand without Thaksin will have China, and China only. Actually, will have Russia as well.

"Well, Thailand run by Thaksin will be looking at China AND the West, and playing the two sides off each other. As in, collect the benefits from China and the West."

Wishful thinking comes to mind

[tonbridgebrit]

Sorry about the above post. Okay, here's my writing.

What's so important about Thailand having a general election ? Why push for one ? What difference does it make ? Well, it's this. For as long as Thailand does not have a general election, okay, the West will continue to not have full links with Thailand. Surely, on ThaiVisa, everybody accepts that ? Surely, on ThaiVisa, everybody can see that Thailand is drifting towards China (and right now, drifting towards Russia as well). This is happening because the West is criticising Thailand about not having a general election.

Go ahead and say, if you want to, that the West is blind, they simply can't grasp the fact that elections in Thailand are not democratic, and hence, Thailand does not need elections. But that's not how America and Europe see the situation.

Do you accept, that if Thaksin was back in power, then, the West would be restoring full links with Thailand ?

Okay, if you feel that Thailand does not need the West, fine, go ahead and say it.

[tbthailand]

Thaksin supports were around before the UDD, but the UDD / red shirts did not exist before the 2006 coup.

Their network did exist before the coup. Same people, different name. When the anti-Thaksin supporters took it to the street, before the 2006 coup, they were already under attack from this group. They beat up children and elderly (attack on PAD on August 21, 2006 at Central World), attacked and laid siege of the Nation Tower (newspaper) by the 'Caravan of the Poor'. Thaksin's political machine had already mobilized his motor taxi gangs that formed his intelligence and intimidation on the streets of Bangkok. There have been fierce battles between PAD security and those motor taxi boys (including shootings).

The seeds of what later was united in the red-shirts/UDD was already there, even when he was PM. They did his dirty work, intimidate his opponents.

um yeah, sure...

nah, not really, that's just BS... But it is an interesting angle... I've seen more than one poster try to create that fantasy.

Same people, nothing new.

Japuporn joined TRT 1998, Nattawut joined 2005, Veera was TRT executive, Dr. weng joined Chamlong against PM Thaksin in 2006, but split later that year.

Dr. weng is an interesting chap. Already protested in 1972 and 1976, joined the Communist party, has some education in Vietnam, received amnesty, protested in 1992. This theNation article gives some insight

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/28/opinion/opinion_30091997.php

same people, nothing new? Your ignorance is blinding. But knowing your complete support for the military junta past and present, that is not surprising. Nor does that inspire me to educate you... I've seen heybruces futile attempts at that and have no desire to waste me time.

Another poster who attempts to paint red shirts as communists. Considering that the leadership of both the PAD and the UDD were members of the CPT, that's a nice red herring and nothing more.

[tonbridgebrit]

My God, the Thai men in red t-shirts are a bunch of communists ??

Is that why the USA is backing the Thai men with the red t-shirts ? Surely, America backs those who do not have red t-shirts ? Surely, America tries to undermine governments that have red t-shirts ?

[casualbiker]

Thaksin supports were around before the UDD, but the UDD / red shirts did not exist before the 2006 coup.

Their network did exist before the coup. Same people, different name. When the anti-Thaksin supporters took it to the street, before the 2006 coup, they were already under attack from this group. They beat up children and elderly (attack on PAD on August 21, 2006 at Central World), attacked and laid siege of the Nation Tower (newspaper) by the 'Caravan of the Poor'. Thaksin's political machine had already mobilized his motor taxi gangs that formed his intelligence and intimidation on the streets of Bangkok. There have been fierce battles between PAD security and those motor taxi boys (including shootings).

The seeds of what later was united in the red-shirts/UDD was already there, even when he was PM. They did his dirty work, intimidate his opponents.

um yeah, sure...

nah, not really, that's just BS... But it is an interesting angle... I've seen more than one poster try to create that fantasy.

Same people, nothing new.

Japuporn joined TRT 1998, Nattawut joined 2005, Veera was TRT executive, Dr. weng joined Chamlong against PM Thaksin in 2006, but split later that year.

Dr. weng is an interesting chap. Already protested in 1972 and 1976, joined the Communist party, has some education in Vietnam, received amnesty, protested in 1992. This theNation article gives some insight

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/28/opinion/opinion_30091997.php

same people, nothing new? Your ignorance is blinding. But knowing your complete support for the military junta past and present, that is not surprising. Nor does that inspire me to educate you... I've seen heybruces futile attempts at that and have no desire to waste me time.

Another poster who attempts to paint red shirts as communists. Considering that the leadership of both the PAD and the UDD were members of the CPT, that's a nice red herring and nothing more.

Who in the PAD were members of the CPT?

[rubl]

Their network did exist before the coup. Same people, different name. When the anti-Thaksin supporters took it to the street, before the 2006 coup, they were already under attack from this group. They beat up children and elderly (attack on PAD on August 21, 2006 at Central World), attacked and laid siege of the Nation Tower (newspaper) by the 'Caravan of the Poor'. Thaksin's political machine had already mobilized his motor taxi gangs that formed his intelligence and intimidation on the streets of Bangkok. There have been fierce battles between PAD security and those motor taxi boys (including shootings).

The seeds of what later was united in the red-shirts/UDD was already there, even when he was PM. They did his dirty work, intimidate his opponents.

um yeah, sure...

nah, not really, that's just BS... But it is an interesting angle... I've seen more than one poster try to create that fantasy.

Same people, nothing new.

Japuporn joined TRT 1998, Nattawut joined 2005, Veera was TRT executive, Dr. weng joined Chamlong against PM Thaksin in 2006, but split later that year.

Dr. weng is an interesting chap. Already protested in 1972 and 1976, joined the Communist party, has some education in Vietnam, received amnesty, protested in 1992. This theNation article gives some insight

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/28/opinion/opinion_30091997.php

same people, nothing new? Your ignorance is blinding. But knowing your complete support for the military junta past and present, that is not surprising. Nor does that inspire me to educate you... I've seen heybruces futile attempts at that and have no desire to waste me time.

Another poster who attempts to paint red shirts as communists. Considering that the leadership of both the PAD and the UDD were members of the CPT, that's a nice red herring and nothing more.

Paint as communist? You mean I should forget that Dr. weng was one, long long time ago?

BTW which leaders in PAD were members of CPT oh so long time ago?

[rubl]

Sorry about the above post. Okay, here's my writing.

What's so important about Thailand having a general election ? Why push for one ? What difference does it make ? Well, it's this. For as long as Thailand does not have a general election, okay, the West will continue to not have full links with Thailand. Surely, on ThaiVisa, everybody accepts that ? Surely, on ThaiVisa, everybody can see that Thailand is drifting towards China (and right now, drifting towards Russia as well). This is happening because the West is criticising Thailand about not having a general election.

Go ahead and say, if you want to, that the West is blind, they simply can't grasp the fact that elections in Thailand are not democratic, and hence, Thailand does not need elections. But that's not how America and Europe see the situation.

Do you accept, that if Thaksin was back in power, then, the West would be restoring full links with Thailand ?

Okay, if you feel that Thailand does not need the West, fine, go ahead and say it.

For Thaksin to be 'back in power' so many things would have to change as well that we get into an 'alternation history' picture, also described as 'history as we would have liked to see it'

Edited April 12, 2015 by rubl

[SoilSpoil]

Sorry about the above post. Okay, here's my writing.

What's so important about Thailand having a general election ? Why push for one ? What difference does it make ? Well, it's this. For as long as Thailand does not have a general election, okay, the West will continue to not have full links with Thailand. Surely, on ThaiVisa, everybody accepts that ? Surely, on ThaiVisa, everybody can see that Thailand is drifting towards China (and right now, drifting towards Russia as well). This is happening because the West is criticising Thailand about not having a general election.

Go ahead and say, if you want to, that the West is blind, they simply can't grasp the fact that elections in Thailand are not democratic, and hence, Thailand does not need elections. But that's not how America and Europe see the situation.

Do you accept, that if Thaksin was back in power, then, the West would be restoring full links with Thailand ?

Okay, if you feel that Thailand does not need the West, fine, go ahead and say it.

Are you so naive to naive to think that the 'West' gives a hoot about Thailand? It's all about the strategic position in Asia and investment interests.

Thaksin has been linked to the Carlyle group on many occasions and guess what happened when his dear 'not experienced but beautiful' sister became PM?

Miss Hillary Clinton visited Thailand within months to secure U-Tapao landing rights for US military planes. Connect the dots is what we learn in primary school.

Thaksin is a criminal, has bended the laws and has used his position for self and family enrichment. Because of this we are in this mess Both coups are a result

of the things that started in 2005/2006. Don't forget that after the first coup, we have had 3 Thaksin-based political parties winning an election and governing this country without any opposition or problems. The problems started every time again after the elected powers were abused. Both Somchai, Samak, and Yingluck had only 1 priority: getting Thaksin and his stolen money back. They did this both politically as well through street terrorism.

That's why we have coups. To reset the political landscape. We need Thaksin and his dynasty out of the equation. No matter what the 'West' thinks.

Who cares anyway.

I do agree though that coups are not the way forward and that a country should be able to chose its leaders and needs political stability. But I also believe that those leaders should be held accountable when they become corrupted. Without law and order, any democracy is bound to fail. And your 'West' understands that perfectly fine.

Edited April 13, 2015 by SoilSpoil

[mikemac]

Post #192 by SoilSpoil was by far the best comment posted on this site for a long time. Thanks for taking the time to do that SS.

[Eric Loh]

Post #192 by SoilSpoil was by far the best comment posted on this site for a long time. Thanks for taking the time to do that SS.

Why? Because it said the things that you want to hear? Anyway if the reason for coups are because of corruption, then Thailand will have a coup just about every day. Perhaps a coup to rid military corruption too.

[mikemac]

Post #192 by SoilSpoil was by far the best comment posted on this site for a long time. Thanks for taking the time to do that SS.

Why? Because it said the things that you want to hear? Anyway if the reason for coups are because of corruption, then Thailand will have a coup just about every day. Perhaps a coup to rid military corruption too.

No Eric, because it made a lot more sense than all of the red-flavored comments I have ever read combined.

As far as coups go they seem to be part of the political way here and nothing you and I ever say will change that. Perhaps we should both accept that and if we don't like living in a country that sorts out it's corrupt despots by forcibly ousting them, then we have every right to leave Thailand and move to a more "stable" country.

I am out of the country at the moment but cannot wait to get back to see my family. Living there under the Military rule and Martial Law made no difference to my everyday life in Chiang Mai, but I did notice innocent people were not being killed on the streets, including children.

The failed actions of Thaksin and his terrorists in 2010 in Bangkok to me was a coup to end a coup. But it failed as Thaksin relied too much on the sympathy vote. All those people were sent to Bangkok to suit his needs, not because they were peaceful protesters.

Edited April 13, 2015 by mikemac

[tonbridgebrit]

Sorry about the above post. Okay, here's my writing.

What's so important about Thailand having a general election ? Why push for one ? What difference does it make ? Well, it's this. For as long as Thailand does not have a general election, okay, the West will continue to not have full links with Thailand. Surely, on ThaiVisa, everybody accepts that ? Surely, on ThaiVisa, everybody can see that Thailand is drifting towards China (and right now, drifting towards Russia as well). This is happening because the West is criticising Thailand about not having a general election.

Go ahead and say, if you want to, that the West is blind, they simply can't grasp the fact that elections in Thailand are not democratic, and hence, Thailand does not need elections. But that's not how America and Europe see the situation.

Do you accept, that if Thaksin was back in power, then, the West would be restoring full links with Thailand ?

Okay, if you feel that Thailand does not need the West, fine, go ahead and say it.

Are you so naive to naive to think that the 'West' gives a hoot about Thailand? It's all about the strategic position in Asia and investment interests.

Thaksin has been linked to the Carlyle group on many occasions and guess what happened when his dear 'not experienced but beautiful' sister became PM?

Miss Hillary Clinton visited Thailand within months to secure U-Tapao landing rights for US military planes. Connect the dots is what we learn in primary school.

Thaksin is a criminal, has bended the laws and has used his position for self and family enrichment. Because of this we are in this mess Both coups are a result

of the things that started in 2005/2006. Don't forget that after the first coup, we have had 3 Thaksin-based political parties winning an election and governing this country without any opposition or problems. The problems started every time again after the elected powers were abused. Both Somchai, Samak, and Yingluck had only 1 priority: getting Thaksin and his stolen money back. They did this both politically as well through street terrorism.

That's why we have coups. To reset the political landscape. We need Thaksin and his dynasty out of the equation. No matter what the 'West' thinks.

Who cares anyway.

I do agree though that coups are not the way forward and that a country should be able to chose its leaders and needs political stability. But I also believe that those leaders should be held accountable when they become corrupted. Without law and order, any democracy is bound to fail. And your 'West' understands that perfectly fine.

Soilspoil, can you please comment on a few issues ? And Rubl and mikemac, can you please do the same.

Has Thailand been drifting away from the West during the last twelve months ? Has the West been criticising Thailand because there hasn't been a general election ?

You talk about Hilary Clinton securing whatever landing rights at whatever military airbase. Did Thailand give these rights for free ? Or did Thailand demand whatever benefits ? What I'm trying to say, is, it's best to have full links with the West, let's have America in Thailand. Yes, their army, navy and airforce. Correct, the Americans don't give a hoot about Thailand, and correct, they regard Thailand as a vital strategic position. It's because of this, okay, they are desperate to have their military in Thailand. And Thailand can very easily say "look America, put the gifts and presents on the table, nothing is for free, bar girls are not for free, and rights to have your airforce here are not for free, what gifts are you willing to give ?".

Why accept gifts from China only, when Thailand can have China AND the West competing against each other ? Let them compete, got to hand out gifts to try and reduce the other one's influence in Thailand. Play the two competitors against each other.

And you talk about investment interests. Correct, they don't care about Thailand and Thai people, but their greed means that they want to put investments into Thailand. The West is the same as the Chinese, they want a share or a cut of the future profits to be made in Thailand. Does it harm Thailand when the West is competing with China to put money into Thailand ? Off-course NOT. This benefits Thailand, take money from both the Chinese and the West.

The West understands that democracy will fail without law and order ? That might be the case, but it doesn't change the fact that the West are refusing to have full links (this includes trade, military, politics, etc) unless we see a general election. That's why we need to see a general election.

Do you (and mikemac and rubl) have no problems with Thailand becoming a Chinese province, dominated by Beijing ? I haven't got anything against China, I actually reckon the mass increase in Chinese tourists is very good for Thailand. It's just that I would prefer to see Thailand fully in with America as well as China. More benefits for Thailand.

[rubl]

Are you so naive to naive to think that the 'West' gives a hoot about Thailand? It's all about the strategic position in Asia and investment interests.

Thaksin has been linked to the Carlyle group on many occasions and guess what happened when his dear 'not experienced but beautiful' sister became PM?

Miss Hillary Clinton visited Thailand within months to secure U-Tapao landing rights for US military planes. Connect the dots is what we learn in primary school.

Thaksin is a criminal, has bended the laws and has used his position for self and family enrichment. Because of this we are in this mess Both coups are a result

of the things that started in 2005/2006. Don't forget that after the first coup, we have had 3 Thaksin-based political parties winning an election and governing this country without any opposition or problems. The problems started every time again after the elected powers were abused. Both Somchai, Samak, and Yingluck had only 1 priority: getting Thaksin and his stolen money back. They did this both politically as well through street terrorism.

That's why we have coups. To reset the political landscape. We need Thaksin and his dynasty out of the equation. No matter what the 'West' thinks.

Who cares anyway.

I do agree though that coups are not the way forward and that a country should be able to chose its leaders and needs political stability. But I also believe that those leaders should be held accountable when they become corrupted. Without law and order, any democracy is bound to fail. And your 'West' understands that perfectly fine.

Soilspoil, can you please comment on a few issues ? And Rubl and mikemac, can you please do the same.

Has Thailand been drifting away from the West during the last twelve months ? Has the West been criticising Thailand because there hasn't been a general election ?

You talk about Hilary Clinton securing whatever landing rights at whatever military airbase. Did Thailand give these rights for free ? Or did Thailand demand whatever benefits ? What I'm trying to say, is, it's best to have full links with the West, let's have America in Thailand. Yes, their army, navy and airforce. Correct, the Americans don't give a hoot about Thailand, and correct, they regard Thailand as a vital strategic position. It's because of this, okay, they are desperate to have their military in Thailand. And Thailand can very easily say "look America, put the gifts and presents on the table, nothing is for free, bar girls are not for free, and rights to have your airforce here are not for free, what gifts are you willing to give ?".

Why accept gifts from China only, when Thailand can have China AND the West competing against each other ? Let them compete, got to hand out gifts to try and reduce the other one's influence in Thailand. Play the two competitors against each other.

And you talk about investment interests. Correct, they don't care about Thailand and Thai people, but their greed means that they want to put investments into Thailand. The West is the same as the Chinese, they want a share or a cut of the future profits to be made in Thailand. Does it harm Thailand when the West is competing with China to put money into Thailand ? Off-course NOT. This benefits Thailand, take money from both the Chinese and the West.

The West understands that democracy will fail without law and order ? That might be the case, but it doesn't change the fact that the West are refusing to have full links (this includes trade, military, politics, etc) unless we see a general election. That's why we need to see a general election.

Do you (and mikemac and rubl) have no problems with Thailand becoming a Chinese province, dominated by Beijing ? I haven't got anything against China, I actually reckon the mass increase in Chinese tourists is very good for Thailand. It's just that I would prefer to see Thailand fully in with America as well as China. More benefits for Thailand.

So, to conclude

""Media, help me. Don't throw away the evidence. I saw you taking many photographs," Gen. Prayuth said in a videotaped speech that will be aired on national television tonight."

[tbthailand]

um yeah, sure...

nah, not really, that's just BS... But it is an interesting angle... I've seen more than one poster try to create that fantasy.

Same people, nothing new.

Japuporn joined TRT 1998, Nattawut joined 2005, Veera was TRT executive, Dr. weng joined Chamlong against PM Thaksin in 2006, but split later that year.

Dr. weng is an interesting chap. Already protested in 1972 and 1976, joined the Communist party, has some education in Vietnam, received amnesty, protested in 1992. This theNation article gives some insight

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/28/opinion/opinion_30091997.php

same people, nothing new? Your ignorance is blinding. But knowing your complete support for the military junta past and present, that is not surprising. Nor does that inspire me to educate you... I've seen heybruces futile attempts at that and have no desire to waste me time.

Another poster who attempts to paint red shirts as communists. Considering that the leadership of both the PAD and the UDD were members of the CPT, that's a nice red herring and nothing more.

Paint as communist? You mean I should forget that Dr. weng was one, long long time ago?

BTW which leaders in PAD were members of CPT oh so long time ago?

if you knew which PAD members were in the CPT with Weng 'oh so long ago', would you feel like you should not forget that fact.... in the same way you just wrote about Weng?

[casualbiker]

um yeah, sure...

nah, not really, that's just BS... But it is an interesting angle... I've seen more than one poster try to create that fantasy.

Same people, nothing new.

Japuporn joined TRT 1998, Nattawut joined 2005, Veera was TRT executive, Dr. weng joined Chamlong against PM Thaksin in 2006, but split later that year.

Dr. weng is an interesting chap. Already protested in 1972 and 1976, joined the Communist party, has some education in Vietnam, received amnesty, protested in 1992. This theNation article gives some insight

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/28/opinion/opinion_30091997.php

same people, nothing new? Your ignorance is blinding. But knowing your complete support for the military junta past and present, that is not surprising. Nor does that inspire me to educate you... I've seen heybruces futile attempts at that and have no desire to waste me time.

Another poster who attempts to paint red shirts as communists. Considering that the leadership of both the PAD and the UDD were members of the CPT, that's a nice red herring and nothing more.

Paint as communist? You mean I should forget that Dr. weng was one, long long time ago?

BTW which leaders in PAD were members of CPT oh so long time ago?

if you knew which PAD members were in the CPT with Weng 'oh so long ago', would you feel like you should not forget that fact.... in the same way you just wrote about Weng?

So you're actually incapable of answering a simple question?

[tbthailand]

um yeah, sure...

nah, not really, that's just BS... But it is an interesting angle... I've seen more than one poster try to create that fantasy.

Same people, nothing new.

Japuporn joined TRT 1998, Nattawut joined 2005, Veera was TRT executive, Dr. weng joined Chamlong against PM Thaksin in 2006, but split later that year.

Dr. weng is an interesting chap. Already protested in 1972 and 1976, joined the Communist party, has some education in Vietnam, received amnesty, protested in 1992. This theNation article gives some insight

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/28/opinion/opinion_30091997.php

same people, nothing new? Your ignorance is blinding. But knowing your complete support for the military junta past and present, that is not surprising. Nor does that inspire me to educate you... I've seen heybruces futile attempts at that and have no desire to waste me time.

Another poster who attempts to paint red shirts as communists. Considering that the leadership of both the PAD and the UDD were members of the CPT, that's a nice red herring and nothing more.

Paint as communist? You mean I should forget that Dr. weng was one, long long time ago?

BTW which leaders in PAD were members of CPT oh so long time ago?

if you knew which PAD members were in the CPT with Weng 'oh so long ago', would you feel like you should not forget that fact.... in the same way you just wrote about Weng?

So you're actually incapable of answering a simple question?

no, of course not.

But Rubl always is...

As for you, tell me, if you knew that PAD leaders were also CPT members in the past, what difference would it make to you?

[casualbiker]

um yeah, sure...

nah, not really, that's just BS... But it is an interesting angle... I've seen more than one poster try to create that fantasy.

Same people, nothing new.

Japuporn joined TRT 1998, Nattawut joined 2005, Veera was TRT executive, Dr. weng joined Chamlong against PM Thaksin in 2006, but split later that year.

Dr. weng is an interesting chap. Already protested in 1972 and 1976, joined the Communist party, has some education in Vietnam, received amnesty, protested in 1992. This theNation article gives some insight

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/28/opinion/opinion_30091997.php

same people, nothing new? Your ignorance is blinding. But knowing your complete support for the military junta past and present, that is not surprising. Nor does that inspire me to educate you... I've seen heybruces futile attempts at that and have no desire to waste me time.

Another poster who attempts to paint red shirts as communists. Considering that the leadership of both the PAD and the UDD were members of the CPT, that's a nice red herring and nothing more.

Paint as communist? You mean I should forget that Dr. weng was one, long long time ago?

BTW which leaders in PAD were members of CPT oh so long time ago?

if you knew which PAD members were in the CPT with Weng 'oh so long ago', would you feel like you should not forget that fact.... in the same way you just wrote about Weng?

So you're actually incapable of answering a simple question?

no, of course not.

But Rubl always is...

As for you, tell me, if you knew that PAD leaders were also CPT members in the past, what difference would it make to you?

Well it would improve my knowledge and it would show your serious about a debate rather than trying to ignore the asked question!

[tonbridgebrit]

Are you so naive to naive to think that the 'West' gives a hoot about Thailand? It's all about the strategic position in Asia and investment interests.

Thaksin has been linked to the Carlyle group on many occasions and guess what happened when his dear 'not experienced but beautiful' sister became PM?

Miss Hillary Clinton visited Thailand within months to secure U-Tapao landing rights for US military planes. Connect the dots is what we learn in primary school.

Thaksin is a criminal, has bended the laws and has used his position for self and family enrichment. Because of this we are in this mess Both coups are a result

of the things that started in 2005/2006. Don't forget that after the first coup, we have had 3 Thaksin-based political parties winning an election and governing this country without any opposition or problems. The problems started every time again after the elected powers were abused. Both Somchai, Samak, and Yingluck had only 1 priority: getting Thaksin and his stolen money back. They did this both politically as well through street terrorism.

That's why we have coups. To reset the political landscape. We need Thaksin and his dynasty out of the equation. No matter what the 'West' thinks.

Who cares anyway.

I do agree though that coups are not the way forward and that a country should be able to chose its leaders and needs political stability. But I also believe that those leaders should be held accountable when they become corrupted. Without law and order, any democracy is bound to fail. And your 'West' understands that perfectly fine.

Soilspoil, can you please comment on a few issues ? And Rubl and mikemac, can you please do the same.

Has Thailand been drifting away from the West during the last twelve months ? Has the West been criticising Thailand because there hasn't been a general election ?

You talk about Hilary Clinton securing whatever landing rights at whatever military airbase. Did Thailand give these rights for free ? Or did Thailand demand whatever benefits ? What I'm trying to say, is, it's best to have full links with the West, let's have America in Thailand. Yes, their army, navy and airforce. Correct, the Americans don't give a hoot about Thailand, and correct, they regard Thailand as a vital strategic position. It's because of this, okay, they are desperate to have their military in Thailand. And Thailand can very easily say "look America, put the gifts and presents on the table, nothing is for free, bar girls are not for free, and rights to have your airforce here are not for free, what gifts are you willing to give ?".

Why accept gifts from China only, when Thailand can have China AND the West competing against each other ? Let them compete, got to hand out gifts to try and reduce the other one's influence in Thailand. Play the two competitors against each other.

And you talk about investment interests. Correct, they don't care about Thailand and Thai people, but their greed means that they want to put investments into Thailand. The West is the same as the Chinese, they want a share or a cut of the future profits to be made in Thailand. Does it harm Thailand when the West is competing with China to put money into Thailand ? Off-course NOT. This benefits Thailand, take money from both the Chinese and the West.

The West understands that democracy will fail without law and order ? That might be the case, but it doesn't change the fact that the West are refusing to have full links (this includes trade, military, politics, etc) unless we see a general election. That's why we need to see a general election.

Do you (and mikemac and rubl) have no problems with Thailand becoming a Chinese province, dominated by Beijing ? I haven't got anything against China, I actually reckon the mass increase in Chinese tourists is very good for Thailand. It's just that I would prefer to see Thailand fully in with America as well as China. More benefits for Thailand.

So, to conclude

""Media, help me. Don't throw away the evidence. I saw you taking many photographs," Gen. Prayuth said in a videotaped speech that will be aired on national television tonight."

rubl, you're dodging the issue. The vast majority of people on ThaiVisa, whether they are pro-Thaksinites or anti-Thaksinites, the vast majority of people don't want to see Thailand drifting away from the West. Practically nobody wants to see China having the monopoly rights to dominate and influence Thailand.

Accept it, the anti-Thaksinites here on ThaiVisa don't want to see a general election, but most of them hate it when they see Thailand falling into the arms of China. Most of the anti-Thaksinites would love to see the West and Thailand back to having full links, they just wish it was that the governments of the West can accept that the coup was vital for Thailand. But America and the European Union will simply not do this. Yes, the hatred for Thaksin is so great, these posters are willing to accept the bitter pill of Thailand becoming a Chinese province, just to see Thaksin not run Thailand again.

[SoilSpoil]

Are you so naive to naive to think that the 'West' gives a hoot about Thailand? It's all about the strategic position in Asia and investment interests.

Thaksin has been linked to the Carlyle group on many occasions and guess what happened when his dear 'not experienced but beautiful' sister became PM?

Miss Hillary Clinton visited Thailand within months to secure U-Tapao landing rights for US military planes. Connect the dots is what we learn in primary school.

Thaksin is a criminal, has bended the laws and has used his position for self and family enrichment. Because of this we are in this mess Both coups are a result

of the things that started in 2005/2006. Don't forget that after the first coup, we have had 3 Thaksin-based political parties winning an election and governing this country without any opposition or problems. The problems started every time again after the elected powers were abused. Both Somchai, Samak, and Yingluck had only 1 priority: getting Thaksin and his stolen money back. They did this both politically as well through street terrorism.

That's why we have coups. To reset the political landscape. We need Thaksin and his dynasty out of the equation. No matter what the 'West' thinks.

Who cares anyway.

I do agree though that coups are not the way forward and that a country should be able to chose its leaders and needs political stability. But I also believe that those leaders should be held accountable when they become corrupted. Without law and order, any democracy is bound to fail. And your 'West' understands that perfectly fine.

Soilspoil, can you please comment on a few issues ? And Rubl and mikemac, can you please do the same.

Has Thailand been drifting away from the West during the last twelve months ? Has the West been criticising Thailand because there hasn't been a general election ?

You talk about Hilary Clinton securing whatever landing rights at whatever military airbase. Did Thailand give these rights for free ? Or did Thailand demand whatever benefits ? What I'm trying to say, is, it's best to have full links with the West, let's have America in Thailand. Yes, their army, navy and airforce. Correct, the Americans don't give a hoot about Thailand, and correct, they regard Thailand as a vital strategic position. It's because of this, okay, they are desperate to have their military in Thailand. And Thailand can very easily say "look America, put the gifts and presents on the table, nothing is for free, bar girls are not for free, and rights to have your airforce here are not for free, what gifts are you willing to give ?".

Why accept gifts from China only, when Thailand can have China AND the West competing against each other ? Let them compete, got to hand out gifts to try and reduce the other one's influence in Thailand. Play the two competitors against each other.

And you talk about investment interests. Correct, they don't care about Thailand and Thai people, but their greed means that they want to put investments into Thailand. The West is the same as the Chinese, they want a share or a cut of the future profits to be made in Thailand. Does it harm Thailand when the West is competing with China to put money into Thailand ? Off-course NOT. This benefits Thailand, take money from both the Chinese and the West.

The West understands that democracy will fail without law and order ? That might be the case, but it doesn't change the fact that the West are refusing to have full links (this includes trade, military, politics, etc) unless we see a general election. That's why we need to see a general election.

Do you (and mikemac and rubl) have no problems with Thailand becoming a Chinese province, dominated by Beijing ? I haven't got anything against China, I actually reckon the mass increase in Chinese tourists is very good for Thailand. It's just that I would prefer to see Thailand fully in with America as well as China. More benefits for Thailand.

So, to conclude

""Media, help me. Don't throw away the evidence. I saw you taking many photographs," Gen. Prayuth said in a videotaped speech that will be aired on national television tonight."

rubl, you're dodging the issue. The vast majority of people on ThaiVisa, whether they are pro-Thaksinites or anti-Thaksinites, the vast majority of people don't want to see Thailand drifting away from the West. Practically nobody wants to see China having the monopoly rights to dominate and influence Thailand.

Accept it, the anti-Thaksinites here on ThaiVisa don't want to see a general election, but most of them hate it when they see Thailand falling into the arms of China. Most of the anti-Thaksinites would love to see the West and Thailand back to having full links, they just wish it was that the governments of the West can accept that the coup was vital for Thailand. But America and the European Union will simply not do this. Yes, the hatred for Thaksin is so great, these posters are willing to accept the bitter pill of Thailand becoming a Chinese province, just to see Thaksin not run Thailand again.

Again who cares about which alliances this country forms, does it really matter. Is the US better than China? In which ways then? Human rights, economy, foreign policies? Please enlighten us. The US foreign policies since WOII have been filled with atrocities and greed. A monster.

Anyway, what really matters is that most of us here want Thailand to prosper, the country we adopted as home, where our children grow up and where we hope to get old. We want justice served, less corruption and criminals where they belong: in jail. We want this country to flourish economically with equal chances for everyone. Well, step 1 in this utopic ideal is to restore law and order (if it ever existed) and start holding the criminal head ponchos responsible for their crimes. Start with the biggest and baddest one: mr Thaksin.

[tonbridgebrit]

Soilspoil, you ask "again who cares about which alliances this country forms, does it really matter. Is the US better than China?" My point is certainly not that the USA is better than China, or China is better than the USA.

My point is, is that it is better to have China AND the USA rather than China only. That's my point. And right now, Thailand is slowly becoming a nation with China only. And it will carry on doing this if we continue to see no general election.

[Artisi]

So many of you haven't got a clue what happened... It was ugly almost beyond belief. You just spew out that same old crap about democracy and a police state, with never a mention of morons threatening to explode a propane tanker truck in the squalor of Din Daeng Flats...

Bear in mind that being able to post virtually anything you wish to say on Thaivisa doesn't equate with the truth or any show of intelligence.

[Artisi]

He means he wants the media to tell the "sanitized" version of events according to him. Never mind what the actual truth is.

It was a war zone.

Yeah it was... It was damn the city and its people. We'll destroy it and them to have our man back.

Maybe, just maybe, it had something to do with, that the majority of Thai voters had enough of, over and over again, seeing their votes being voided by the judiciary and/or the army.

Violence is never a solution, but at some point most people reach their breaking point !!

Of course that includes all the bought votes and yes, you are correct, the military did reach a breaking point of having enough murder and mayhem being instigated by a fugitive criminal and decided time to put a stop to it.

[rubl]

Are you so naive to naive to think that the 'West' gives a hoot about Thailand? It's all about the strategic position in Asia and investment interests.

Thaksin has been linked to the Carlyle group on many occasions and guess what happened when his dear 'not experienced but beautiful' sister became PM?

Miss Hillary Clinton visited Thailand within months to secure U-Tapao landing rights for US military planes. Connect the dots is what we learn in primary school.

Thaksin is a criminal, has bended the laws and has used his position for self and family enrichment. Because of this we are in this mess Both coups are a result

of the things that started in 2005/2006. Don't forget that after the first coup, we have had 3 Thaksin-based political parties winning an election and governing this country without any opposition or problems. The problems started every time again after the elected powers were abused. Both Somchai, Samak, and Yingluck had only 1 priority: getting Thaksin and his stolen money back. They did this both politically as well through street terrorism.

That's why we have coups. To reset the political landscape. We need Thaksin and his dynasty out of the equation. No matter what the 'West' thinks.

Who cares anyway.

I do agree though that coups are not the way forward and that a country should be able to chose its leaders and needs political stability. But I also believe that those leaders should be held accountable when they become corrupted. Without law and order, any democracy is bound to fail. And your 'West' understands that perfectly fine.

Soilspoil, can you please comment on a few issues ? And Rubl and mikemac, can you please do the same.

Has Thailand been drifting away from the West during the last twelve months ? Has the West been criticising Thailand because there hasn't been a general election ?

You talk about Hilary Clinton securing whatever landing rights at whatever military airbase. Did Thailand give these rights for free ? Or did Thailand demand whatever benefits ? What I'm trying to say, is, it's best to have full links with the West, let's have America in Thailand. Yes, their army, navy and airforce. Correct, the Americans don't give a hoot about Thailand, and correct, they regard Thailand as a vital strategic position. It's because of this, okay, they are desperate to have their military in Thailand. And Thailand can very easily say "look America, put the gifts and presents on the table, nothing is for free, bar girls are not for free, and rights to have your airforce here are not for free, what gifts are you willing to give ?".

Why accept gifts from China only, when Thailand can have China AND the West competing against each other ? Let them compete, got to hand out gifts to try and reduce the other one's influence in Thailand. Play the two competitors against each other.

And you talk about investment interests. Correct, they don't care about Thailand and Thai people, but their greed means that they want to put investments into Thailand. The West is the same as the Chinese, they want a share or a cut of the future profits to be made in Thailand. Does it harm Thailand when the West is competing with China to put money into Thailand ? Off-course NOT. This benefits Thailand, take money from both the Chinese and the West.

The West understands that democracy will fail without law and order ? That might be the case, but it doesn't change the fact that the West are refusing to have full links (this includes trade, military, politics, etc) unless we see a general election. That's why we need to see a general election.

Do you (and mikemac and rubl) have no problems with Thailand becoming a Chinese province, dominated by Beijing ? I haven't got anything against China, I actually reckon the mass increase in Chinese tourists is very good for Thailand. It's just that I would prefer to see Thailand fully in with America as well as China. More benefits for Thailand.

So, to conclude

""Media, help me. Don't throw away the evidence. I saw you taking many photographs," Gen. Prayuth said in a videotaped speech that will be aired on national television tonight."

rubl, you're dodging the issue. The vast majority of people on ThaiVisa, whether they are pro-Thaksinites or anti-Thaksinites, the vast majority of people don't want to see Thailand drifting away from the West. Practically nobody wants to see China having the monopoly rights to dominate and influence Thailand.

Accept it, the anti-Thaksinites here on ThaiVisa don't want to see a general election, but most of them hate it when they see Thailand falling into the arms of China. Most of the anti-Thaksinites would love to see the West and Thailand back to having full links, they just wish it was that the governments of the West can accept that the coup was vital for Thailand. But America and the European Union will simply not do this. Yes, the hatred for Thaksin is so great, these posters are willing to accept the bitter pill of Thailand becoming a Chinese province, just to see Thaksin not run Thailand again.

The issue here is the 2010 violence

"""Media, help me. Don't throw away the evidence. I saw you taking many photographs," Gen. Prayuth said in a videotaped speech that will be aired on national television tonight."

"

Edited April 14, 2015 by rubl

[tonbridgebrit]

rubl, why is it that the Nation Newspaper is simply not jumping up and down, and banging the drum about all the bad stuff that happened in 2010 ?? They are, supposedly, an anti-Thaksin newspaper. Why, rubl ? I mean, it's not as if Thaksin is in charge, right ? Why be so shy in printing and broadcasting the stuff ?

[metisdead]

An off topic deflection post has been removed as well as the replies.

[rubl]

rubl, why is it that the Nation Newspaper is simply not jumping up and down, and banging the drum about all the bad stuff that happened in 2010 ?? They are, supposedly, an anti-Thaksin newspaper. Why, rubl ? I mean, it's not as if Thaksin is in charge, right ? Why be so shy in printing and broadcasting the stuff ?

Now you're talking.

I guess unlike a few TVF posters lots of Thai are not really interested. Some got a 7.6 million Baht cheque, some regularly protest, some issue conflicting statements and some are mostly concerned with today, barely dressed girls dancing in public, and other important issues.

[AleG]

thaksin supports were around before the UDD, but the UDD / red shirts did not exist before the 2006 coup.

Their network did exist before the coup. Same people, different name. When the anti-Thaksin supporters took it to the street, before the 2006 coup, they were already under attack from this group. They beat up children and elderly (attack on PAD on August 21, 2006 at Central World), attacked and laid siege of the Nation Tower (newspaper) by the 'Caravan of the Poor'. Thaksin's political machine had already mobilized his motor taxi gangs that formed his intelligence and intimidation on the streets of Bangkok. There have been fierce battles between PAD security and those motor taxi boys (including shootings).

The seeds of what later was united in the red-shirts/UDD was already there, even when he was PM. They did his dirty work, intimidate his opponents.

Nattawut, Jatuporn, Veera et al were already Thaksin stooges before the coup, the Red Shirt thing was just a re-branding of the same Astroturfing operation.