UPS hostage situation for clothes shipped from the States

[timsharkythailand]

Import duty is calculated including shipping price.

Or maybe we do not read the same forums and websites...

[poweratradio]

That's why i never buy anything from a vendor that only ships UPS or Fedex. UPS is the worst. You paid like $80, $100, for shipping and then when it arrives, they add another $10 or so for handling/customs fees. And they bring you a pile of documents to sign. Never seen anything ike it. i hate them.

Yeah now I also certainly hate them.

Gee thats funny how the 2 largest courier companies in the world with DHL licking at their heels.... could be so stupid to overstate value fees. Yeah right ah heh sure.

[poweratradio]

I shipped some clothes USPS a couple years ago and TW got charged 3000baht. It was more than the cost of the pants.

TW?

The wife

[poweratradio]

The reason USPS is the way to go is because they hand off to the regular Thai Post and for some reason they have a fairly decent reputation for NOT pulling this scam. I've read where all the foreign 3rd party delivery companies have this problem to one extent or another.

The main difference is (IMO) employees of the Thai post are government employees and employees of 3rd party companies such as DHL, UPS and FedEx are employees of private companies. Yeah, I know, government people aren't known for being free from corruption, but in this case it may just be harder to pull off for a Thai Post employee.

My advice is to call UPS's head office and complain. If you have a tracking number then they will know which office is pulling this scam and you may just help the next guy by rooting out these crooks.

UPS Parcel Delivery Service Ltd.

Head Office

16/1 Soi Sukhumvit 44/1

Sukhumvit Road, Prakhanong, Klongtoey

Bangkok 10110

Thailand

Tel.: 66 2728 9000

Fax: 66 2712 1818

Where is this scam you speak of>>>> There is no scam just stupid importers to Thailand. Regarding CIF shipments. All the top 3 have websites clearly outlining all details.

[poweratradio]

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The reason USPS is the way to go is because they hand off to the regular Thai Post and for some reason they have a fairly decent reputation for NOT pulling this scam. I've read where all the foreign 3rd party delivery companies have this problem to one extent or another.

The main difference is (IMO) employees of the Thai post are government employees and employees of 3rd party companies such as DHL, UPS and FedEx are employees of private companies. Yeah, I know, government people aren't known for being free from corruption, but in this case it may just be harder to pull off for a Thai Post employee.

My advice is to call UPS's head office and complain. If you have a tracking number then they will know which office is pulling this scam and you may just help the next guy by rooting out these crooks.

UPS Parcel Delivery Service Ltd.

Head Office

16/1 Soi Sukhumvit 44/1

Sukhumvit Road, Prakhanong, Klongtoey

Bangkok 10110

Thailand

Tel.: 66 2728 9000

Fax: 66 2712 1818

I did write an email to them. They said they would look into the matter. So I am waiting to see if they do anything

Sorry to be the one to tell you but they do not respond well to ignorance in the receivers. If you get anything at all back from them it will be a form mail with the information attached detailing the shipping and receiving cost associated with International shipping.

[poweratradio]

I have a question, does anybody know why we can send liquid from USA to Thailand but cannot send liquid from Thailand to any country ? Thanks.

Thailand is a drug source country. Nuff said...

[poweratradio]

A solicitor friend had exactly the same issue with UPS importing a small item into the UK. The delivery guy came to him but refused to leave the item before he had received payment. He too asked what the charge was for and was told customs duty. My friend asked to see the custom charge paperwork. Turned out it was just an estimate done by UPS and they had no back up paperwork from customs. Being a solicitor my friend told the delivery guy sorry but i dont have any cash but could give him a cheque. The delivery guy accepted this and left the item and went away with the cheque whereupon my friend then rings his bank and cancels the cheque.

Only way to deal with their scam

I am sure this method was exactly what the solicitor needed to enhance his credit bureau credit rating. NSF

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Yes, they do include the shipping cost when calculating the duty.

Also, even shipments by postal service are now being flagged if the declared value is over 1000 baht. My recent experience was a pair of shoes valued at $50 and marked "gift" on the customs form, got nailed for 30% plus 7% VAT. I have never been charged previously on imports shipped by postal service. Just another one of many changes courtesy of the regime.

I ship a lot of packages from the U.S. to Thailand, and almost always use non courier methods that ultimately are delivered by Thai Post.

While I know the 1000 baht valuation limit is supposed to be the threshold for not getting duties, in my experience, there's always been some latitude about that. I pretty regularly ship packages thru non-courier methods that have declared values between $30 and $50 (and a lot with less than that) and those rarely get dutied. And I haven't seen that change much under the latest government.

I think there are two things going on on this subject:

1. Anything delivered here by Thai Post has a FAR FAR less chance of drawing a customs duty vs. the same package delivered by FedEx, DHL, UPS, etc. So try to avoid using the private couriers whenever possible, unless you're prepared to pay extra for the privilege.

2. But, when the duty monster does strike, clothing and shoes tend to draw some of the highest duty rates -- far more than electronics, for example. The Thais want to protect their domestic clothing and shoe industries, and the duty sheets if I recall allow 30% or more levies on various things...

But if the couriers get their mitts on your package, that's assessed not against against the declared or even actual purchase price value of your package, but as noted above, instead the much higher CIF amount -- the package value plus insurance plus freight/shipping expense. And then the 7% VAT is slapped on on top of that, usually along with processing and/or storage fees.

In the end, I've seen clothing shipments done by private couriers end up having a total duty and tax charge equal to the full cost of the actual purchase, in other words, a 100% levy of taxes, duty and fees when all is said and done. And part of that also occurs because the Customs folks sometimes can and do assign their own arbitrary value to your shipment, that may be much higher than what you actually paid for your purchase. So that then serves as the foundation for piling all the other charges on top.

Edited April 11, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[DarloKnight]

My hubby works for UPS this is the normal, UPS will have paid for the duty at the port of entry and they then have to claim from the customer this is not unique to Thailand also this will be clearly stated in the invoice the driver gives you and should have also been stated in terms and conditions when you bought which a lot of people don't bother to read.

[Rhys]

Funny years ago, when all those ultra fast shipping companies were serving Thailand.. one up and comming companies.. did the same things, call for an TAX EXTRA for my 3 bags of Kona Gold Coffee..yes, I understand the reasoning.. but I was extremely PO at the time.. Star BKS was not here then..

Edited April 11, 2015 by Rhys

[sir charles IV]

Op is clearly unhappy. It's is however unfair to accuse ups. It's his fault for not researching the fees and conditions of porting stuff into thailand. Grow up buddy and cop it on the chin. You learned a lesson in the field of importation. Now u can apologise to ups like a real man would. [emoji16][emoji16]

[CharlieH]

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[pmarlin]

I wonder why is USPS or other government courier services are never in this sort of situation ? Anybody had a bad experience with those also ?

Yes. but not really bad just had to go to the post office and pay the duties and tax. One time had to go to the main Thai post office customs house.

[GinBoy2]

I think the biggest problem, at least in my eyes is the variability of the import tax levied. I totally understand that import tax is real, and yes we pay it. But it's the rate. The shipment I abandoned was when the import duty I was being charged was almost double what I paid for the product, doesn't make sense.

In contrast to that I recently had an unusual experience with Amazon. Amazon's International Delivery always collects an import duty deposit. This was for electronics which always get levied, surprise surprise I got 100% of the deposit refunded!

Nobody (well mostly nobody) minds when the system is viewed as fair and reasonable, but there's enough, 'say whatttt' moments when importing into Thailand that I think something just ain't quite right

[pmarlin]

More times that I can count when I use a courier service and prepay the tax and customs duties. couple months after delivery of the items I get a credit back to my credit card from them. Either an overpayment of the estimate or duties weren't imposed. I have no complaints with UPS, FEDX or DHL

[jamesjohnsonthird]

You want to meet the scum of the earth? Go and try to pick up a parcel at the airport.

The mafia has run roughshod over the customs duty area.

The Customs & shipping company staff are afraid of them and let them run the place.

My last delivery from BAX Global? There were extra charges and "no receipts sir."

Yep. BAX Global forced to take cash and turn it over to the scum.

Edited April 11, 2015 by jamesjohnsonthird

[sir charles IV]

You want to meet the scum of the earth? Go and try to pick up a parcel at the airport.

The mafia has run roughshod over the customs duty area.

The Customs & shipping company staff are afraid of them and let them run the place.

My last delivery from BAX Global? There were extra charges and "no receipts sir."

Yep. BAX Global forced to take cash and turn it over to the scum.

thats interesting. I hear similar stuff with duty free purchases at airport. It's places like this forum where we can be made alert of illegal activities and find a way to outsmart them. Ie avoid them. Accusing the system for not doing due diligence is often heard here. Thailand isn't so bad if u understand the system including the not so legal ways. Op is another example of blaming others because of self ignorance. Lesson learnt. Or has he. Lol

[fey]

never had stuff seized using usps so far. no customs fees. nothing stolen either.

its sent to me in flat rate boxes from a private party, labels written out, not typed. no or little insurance. very economical and FAST for just first class mail, not expedited.

[scooterandjobe]

I think the biggest problem, at least in my eyes is the variability of the import tax levied. I totally understand that import tax is real, and yes we pay it. But it's the rate. The shipment I abandoned was when the import duty I was being charged was almost double what I paid for the product, doesn't make sense.

In contrast to that I recently had an unusual experience with Amazon. Amazon's International Delivery always collects an import duty deposit. This was for electronics which always get levied, surprise surprise I got 100% of the deposit refunded!

Nobody (well mostly nobody) minds when the system is viewed as fair and reasonable, but there's enough, 'say whatttt' moments when importing into Thailand that I think something just ain't quite right

Thailand uses the same system as a lot of countries for tariff estimation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonized_System

The rates are shown on the Customs website here;

http://igtf.customs.go.th/igtf/en/main_frame.jsp

It is wise to check here before importing. And, always ensure you receive proof of payment to show the amount is correct and to prove you have paid any duty/tax if the need arises later.

Cheer, Scooter

[GOLDBUGGY]

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The online shop I bought the stuff doesn't refund or anything. I think if i refuse also its basically gone.

Better then to pay the $90 to retrieve $180 worth of merchandise. Otherwise you are out $180 plus shipping.

So pay it and mark this down as Lessons Learned in your Golden Book.

[StreetCowboy]

I wonder why is USPS or other government courier services are never in this sort of situation ? Anybody had a bad experience with those also ?

with my experience non-courier services (normal post) a lot of the times the parcels simply come in under the radar, occasionally I do get stung for import taxes and duties but that is rare.

With companies like UPS, they always do the customs calculations and also do the collecting.

Foreign companies are probably obliged to abide by the law, for fear of prosecution or losing their licence to operate.

On the other hand, Thai government agencies are unlikely to lose their licence to operate

SC

[surangw]

were the items that special to order and have shipped ?

[mokwit]

If you refuse delivery, they to return to sender, you claim a refund as the goods have been returned.

That's what I did. I also never ever used a courier service again.

"I also never ever used a courier service again."

Yes, never use a courier service for anything other than documents (and even then it's just as easy to use EMS or Priority Mail unless it's extremely urgent). Never use eBay's Global shipping service either. They're designed to ensure you pay or pre-pay the maximum possible customs duty. Post Office is far better. Sometimes you'll get hit with duty, but not always. Averaged out it's far less painful.

Any experience of the Amazon pre paid customs "service". Amazon claim they refund any uncharged duty. I Googled around regarding ebay/Pitney Bowes and it seems the conditions are NO REFUND if no duty paid. Nice business they have there........................

[pmarlin]

If you refuse delivery, they to return to sender, you claim a refund as the goods have been returned.

That's what I did. I also never ever used a courier service again.

"I also never ever used a courier service again."

Yes, never use a courier service for anything other than documents (and even then it's just as easy to use EMS or Priority Mail unless it's extremely urgent). Never use eBay's Global shipping service either. They're designed to ensure you pay or pre-pay the maximum possible customs duty. Post Office is far better. Sometimes you'll get hit with duty, but not always. Averaged out it's far less painful.

Any experience of the Amazon pre paid customs "service". Amazon claim they refund any uncharged duty. I Googled around regarding ebay/Pitney Bowes and it seems the conditions are NO REFUND if no duty paid. Nice business they have there........................quote]

I have had several pre-paid customs/tax fees refunded from Amazon.com. But they sometimes take longer than a month to get it after you get your order.

[mokwit]

pmarlin, thanks for your reply. Although it may take a month to actually receive the deposit funds back, when do you know what duty has or has not been charged? before this, if so how soon before you get notification of deposit refund?

[pmarlin]

pmarlin, thanks for your reply. Although it may take a month to actually receive the deposit funds back, when do you know what duty has or has not been charged? before this, if so how soon before you get notification of deposit refund?

That is a problem, you don't. Amazon will send you an email telling you a credit has been made to your credit card about two or three days before the credit is made. I guess you have to trust FedEx, UPS, and DHL on this. But I find this more convenient than having to deal with customs here as I prefer for them to act as my agent.

[mokwit]

pmarlin, another 2 questions if I may, as If the Amazon deposit is refunded I will save several hundred dollars over local price. But if I am gauged for more I will lose out.

The items I want to order are non dutiable (Computer parts) but in the past DHL charged me 60 or 100% duty on a non dutiable book plus "storage" and "insurance" that alone came to more than the book if I remember. I have never been charged duty on computer parts to date when sent by post even when not labelled as non dutiable with category number.

1) From Amazon Terms I cannot see if I am liable if the duty charged is more than the deposit or if Amazon/carrier eats that that is the case (hmmm can't see that). Any experience or knowledge of what happens if that is the case or if it is ever the case.

2) I am wondering if I specify the 2-4 day shipping option are my goods likely to be carried by a DHL or Fedex or UPS - thus maybe increasing the likelihood of very high duty being paid. Any idea who the carrier is with the fastest 2-4 day shipping?

My experience has been that with items sent by ordinary post duty is invariably levied these days, but I don't think I have ever paid more than 15% on anything and certainly nowhere near the standard 60%-100% charged by DHL (the absolute worst). As per previous post I have never been supplied with the original customs documentation by a courier - paperwork for huge duty charge is always in the name of a clearance agent (but always have with the postal service).

Sad to see now problems with UPS. Years ago I always specified them as they had taken the initiative of setting up their own customs clearance area and as a result you were charged duty that had some semblance to the official figure. No more it seems.

Edited April 26, 2015 by mokwit

[KhunG]

mokwit,

I've also used Amazon for some clothing, and got my whole customs deposit back after about 2 months. From their website: "For AmazonGlobal items, you won't be charged additional fees if the actual Import Fees exceed the Import Fees Deposit we estimated. For items sold by Amazon Marketplace sellers, please check the seller's policies."

I have an appliance on order now, so in a couple of months I'll see what the customs charge is on that.