why I no longer live in the US...

[NovaBlue05]

You should move to Thailand if you are able and that's what you desire. Like I said earlier, I would do the same if I were childless and hence no education opportunity component to my decision. The lack of affordable healthcare/insurance in the US for those retired and not yet old enough for Medicare is my biggest negative about the US....along with what passes for leadership in the federal government. I guess the latter is endemic. As far as the potential to be a victim of random violence, it never occurs to me

[HeijoshinCool]

"Long enough," huh?

Come back and post when you have been in LOS at least five years, have made unbiased observations along the way, and can make unbiased statements backing them.

"Random violence?" What difference does it make if violence is random or systematic?

Fact: Thailand has more gun deaths, per capita, than the US.

Fact: Thailand is number two in the world for the most traffic fatalities per capita, which, considering the manner in which many drive, would qualify as your "random violence."

Whether i said 5 or 10yrs is irrelevant considering your view that anyone living here that long can make unbiased observations. I have yet to see evidence to suggest that based on the plethora of biased posts from long time TV members.

Random vs systematic violence - really makes no difference one or the other except one doesnt expect random violence to happen with such frequency in a rich developed country vs a poor one barely emerging from 3rd world status.

Gun violence - why dont you look up stats for US compared to other developed countries and come back with your findings. Arguing that a developing country has worse gun violence than richest country in the world by 1% pt per capita is not very compelling argument.

Traffic fatalities - yes there are more in Thailand because it's still developing country. If it had the same level of enforcement and infrastructure as US, you and many retirees who benefit from low cost of living here would no longer be able to afford it.

Lastly, if you want to imply that traffic fatalities in Thailand are random acts of violence(which is a stretch of the imagination) then you should also contemplate the frequency of road rage and resulting acts of senseless violence in the US, UK and Australia which rarely if ever occurs in Thailand.

.

Ah, I see. Thailand has an excuse for its violence because it is still developing.

Well, that certainly makes it safer.

As for the small difference in stats, like I mentioned in a subsequent post, while America's stats are pretty accurate, Thailand's desire to save Face causes her to go to great lengths to hide her crimes and accidents, so the actual number of gun deaths is higher than reported.

But if you feel unsafe in America, and safe in Thailand, enjoy! Regardless of "statistics," everyone lives in their own reality.

And by the way, there have been numerous incidents of road rage reported here on TV over the years. Even been a few incidents of "parking" rage, men beating up people, including women, for not moving their car so the men could drive by.

I think Thailand would generally be safer than the west, if it weren't for Face.

[HeijoshinCool]

"Long enough," huh?

Come back and post when you have been in LOS at least five years, have made unbiased observations along the way, and can make unbiased statements backing them.

"Random violence?" What difference does it make if violence is random or systematic?

Fact: Thailand has more gun deaths, per capita, than the US.

Fact: Thailand is number two in the world for the most traffic fatalities per capita, which, considering the manner in which many drive, would qualify as your "random violence."

Where did you get your source of Thailand having more gun deaths than the US?

According to The Business Insider, The Guardian, The UNODC, The Washington Post, Guns & Ammo, and Ammo Land: The USA is second to every country in the developed world regarding Gun Ownership/Deaths per capita, With exception to Mexico (Rightfully So).

According to World Life Expectancy. com, The WHO, Thailand is Ranked 6th in traffic fatalities per capita. Whereas, India has the top spot in the accident stats. In some of the studies, Thailand is not even ranked.

I think it is safe to say that you would have to do your homework before you post your "Suspected" unbiased statements.

.

Murder rate (by any means) per capita (reported by The Guardian, per the UNDOC):

Thailand 5.3/100,000

USA 5.0/100,000

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/oct/10/world-murder-rate-unodc

Murders by firearm per capita:

Thailand 313/million

USA 33/million

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Murders-with-firearms

Murder rate by any means, per UNDOC, 2012:

Thailand 5/100,000 (2011)

USA 4.7/100,000 (2012)

Gun homicide article:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/23/facebook-posts/the-us-is-no-in-gun-violence-is-it/

Traffic deaths per capita:

Thailand # 2

USA #97

http://global.umich.edu/2014/02/thai-roads-ranked-no-2-for-traffic-deaths/

Traffic deaths per capita; WHO 2013 report:

Thailand 38/100,000

USA 11.6/100,000

You wrote:

According to World Life Expectancy. com, The WHO, Thailand is Ranked 6th in traffic fatalities per capita. Whereas, India has the top spot in the accident stats. In some of the studies, Thailand is not even ranked.

You neglected to mention the USA is listed in the same report as 107th in fatalities. And these numbers do not reflect Thailand's fudging the figures on both gun deaths and traffic deaths. Many, many, go unreported. In the area where I lived, I know of five murders in three years that went unreported. The village headmen simply buried the bodies.

And yes, all three were about Face.

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/road-traffic-accidents/by-country/

EDIT: spell chicken

As has been pointed out by several ppl over the last few years, I would be very wary of the murder by firearm statistic from Nationmaster you are quoting. If the overall murder rate is either 5 or 5.3 per 100,000 ppl then how can the murder rate by firearms be 313 per million ppl which is six times more.

.

I was wary. I pointed out the possible discrepancies by noting deaths in Thailand, both intentional and otherwise, go greatly unreported.

2000 was likely one of the last years of accurate reporting. For many years Thailand had reported over 20,000 gun murders per year, in a country of 60 million. The US reported 9,000 or so, in a country five times the population of Thailand.

Suddenly, over the next dozen years, Thailand's figures dropped significantly, without any explanation, and now Thailand maintains a rate comparable to America's.

Sure.

[goreme]

"Long enough," huh?

Come back and post when you have been in LOS at least five years, have made unbiased observations along the way, and can make unbiased statements backing them.

"Random violence?" What difference does it make if violence is random or systematic?

Fact: Thailand has more gun deaths, per capita, than the US.

Fact: Thailand is number two in the world for the most traffic fatalities per capita, which, considering the manner in which many drive, would qualify as your "random violence."

Whether i said 5 or 10yrs is irrelevant considering your view that anyone living here that long can make unbiased observations. I have yet to see evidence to suggest that based on the plethora of biased posts from long time TV members.

Random vs systematic violence - really makes no difference one or the other except one doesnt expect random violence to happen with such frequency in a rich developed country vs a poor one barely emerging from 3rd world status.

Gun violence - why dont you look up stats for US compared to other developed countries and come back with your findings. Arguing that a developing country has worse gun violence than richest country in the world by 1% pt per capita is not very compelling argument.

Traffic fatalities - yes there are more in Thailand because it's still developing country. If it had the same level of enforcement and infrastructure as US, you and many retirees who benefit from low cost of living here would no longer be able to afford it.

Lastly, if you want to imply that traffic fatalities in Thailand are random acts of violence(which is a stretch of the imagination) then you should also contemplate the frequency of road rage and resulting acts of senseless violence in the US, UK and Australia which rarely if ever occurs in Thailand.

.

Ah, I see. Thailand has an excuse for its violence because it is still developing.

Well, that certainly makes it safer.

As for the small difference in stats, like I mentioned in a subsequent post, while America's stats are pretty accurate, Thailand's desire to save Face causes her to go to great lengths to hide her crimes and accidents, so the actual number of gun deaths is higher than reported.

But if you feel unsafe in America, and safe in Thailand, enjoy! Regardless of "statistics," everyone lives in their own reality.

And by the way, there have been numerous incidents of road rage reported here on TV over the years. Even been a few incidents of "parking" rage, men beating up people, including women, for not moving their car so the men could drive by.

I think Thailand would generally be safer than the west, if it weren't for Face.

You and other farangs on this forum often like to make disparaging comments about saving face with very little understanding of its cultural significance.

Is under reporting of crime unique to Thailand? How many rapes and other acts of domestic violence w/guns or otherwise go unreported in the US? Given such high rates of occurrence, you can bet there is fair amount of under reporting of crimes in the US intentional or not.

Any road rage that youve heard about in Thailand pales in comparison to the frequency and severity that occurs in US/UK/Australia. If you find Thailand so much more dangerous than the US, why are you still here?

[ravip]

The US is safe. Sounds like the OP is just trying to justify the move.

It is OK to say you moved for women. Its why we are all here.

Ooooops! Is there a dearth of women in the US?

Or the women are very selective?

This might prove the 'feeding the sick buffalo' syndrome.

[GuestHouse]

You and other farangs on this forum often like to make disparaging comments about saving face with very little understanding of its cultural significance.

Is under reporting of crime unique to Thailand? How many rapes and other acts of domestic violence w/guns or otherwise go unreported in the US? Given such high rates of occurrence, you can bet there is fair amount of under reporting of crimes in the US intentional or not.

Any road rage that youve heard about in Thailand pales in comparison to the frequency and severity that occurs in US/UK/Australia. If you find Thailand so much more dangerous than the US, why are you still here?

Ah... so it was an 'If you don't like it leave' thread all along.

As an observation: The quality of US Government Statistical Social Data is recognised throughout the world..... And, extremely reliable statistical tools are applied in US data to account for discrepancies arising from under-reporting and reporting errors.

As has been pointed out above; When the Thai statistical data for crime, accidents, deaths, health or any other social indicators hit the news as 'bad news', they, the statistics have a habit of suddenly and inexplicably improving.

There is no better example than the fatality/injury data around road accidents over Songkran, or the statistics on the use of illegal drugs.

Both of which have taken nose dives in the very year after a 'Government' announcement to solve the problem.

Anywhere else on the planet solving social problems takes decades - Thailand it happens overnight..... as if by the stroke of a magic eraser.

Of course the OP has been in Thailand 'long enough' to know this.

[goreme]

You and other farangs on this forum often like to make disparaging comments about saving face with very little understanding of its cultural significance.

Is under reporting of crime unique to Thailand? How many rapes and other acts of domestic violence w/guns or otherwise go unreported in the US? Given such high rates of occurrence, you can bet there is fair amount of under reporting of crimes in the US intentional or not.

Any road rage that youve heard about in Thailand pales in comparison to the frequency and severity that occurs in US/UK/Australia. If you find Thailand so much more dangerous than the US, why are you still here?

Ah... so it was an 'If you don't like it leave' thread all along.

As an observation: The quality of US Government Statistical Social Data is recognised throughout the world..... And, extremely reliable statistical tools are applied in US data to account for discrepancies arising from under-reporting and reporting errors.

As has been pointed out above; When the Thai statistical data for crime, accidents, deaths, health or any other social indicators hit the news as 'bad news', they, the statistics have a habit of suddenly and inexplicably improving.

There is no better example than the fatality/injury data around road accidents over Songkran, or the statistics on the use of illegal drugs.

Both of which have taken nose dives in the very year after a 'Government' announcement to solve the problem.

Anywhere else on the planet solving social problems takes decades - Thailand it happens overnight..... as if by the stroke of a magic eraser.

Of course the OP has been in Thailand 'long enough' to know this.

It's pretty clear your arrogant, know it all attitude distorts your view of Thailand. What you cant seem to grasp is that for all Thailand's faults, perceived or otherwise, you and many farangs are treated pretty damn well - much better than you deserve to be given your often disrespectful and disparaging criticisms of Thais.

Thailand is a developing country, which compared to other developing countries--even many eastern European ones, affords a quality of life that cant be beat when taking into account cost of living, hospitality of the people and mostly sunny weather. Of course if it had the resources and infrastructure of the US, many of it's problems would be solved but it doesn't - stop whining and deal with it.

Edited April 20, 2015 by goreme

[GuestHouse]

You and other farangs on this forum often like to make disparaging comments about saving face with very little understanding of its cultural significance.

Is under reporting of crime unique to Thailand? How many rapes and other acts of domestic violence w/guns or otherwise go unreported in the US? Given such high rates of occurrence, you can bet there is fair amount of under reporting of crimes in the US intentional or not.

Any road rage that youve heard about in Thailand pales in comparison to the frequency and severity that occurs in US/UK/Australia. If you find Thailand so much more dangerous than the US, why are you still here?

Ah... so it was an 'If you don't like it leave' thread all along.

As an observation: The quality of US Government Statistical Social Data is recognised throughout the world..... And, extremely reliable statistical tools are applied in US data to account for discrepancies arising from under-reporting and reporting errors.

As has been pointed out above; When the Thai statistical data for crime, accidents, deaths, health or any other social indicators hit the news as 'bad news', they, the statistics have a habit of suddenly and inexplicably improving.

There is no better example than the fatality/injury data around road accidents over Songkran, or the statistics on the use of illegal drugs.

Both of which have taken nose dives in the very year after a 'Government' announcement to solve the problem.

Anywhere else on the planet solving social problems takes decades - Thailand it happens overnight..... as if by the stroke of a magic eraser.

Of course the OP has been in Thailand 'long enough' to know this.

It's pretty clear your arrogant, know it all attitude distorts your view of Thailand. What you cant seem to grasp is that for all Thailand's faults, perceived or otherwise, you and many farangs are treated pretty damn well - much better than you deserve to be given your often disrespectful and disparaging criticisms of Thais.

Thailand is a developing country, which compared to other developing countries--even many eastern European ones, affords a quality of life that cant be beat when taking into account cost of living, hospitality of the people and mostly sunny weather. Of course if it had the resources and infrastructure of the US, many of it's problems would be solved but it doesn't - stop whining and deal with it.

Can you please clearly identify the disrespectful and disparaging criticism of Thais you accuse me of, or man-up and apologise.

[NeverSure]

Of course if it had the resources and infrastructure of the US, many of it's problems would be solved but it doesn't - stop whining and deal with it.

"Of course if it had the resources and infrastructure of the US, many of it's problems would be solved but it doesn't."

The truth is that if it would solve its problems it could have the resources and infrastructure of the US. The US started out as nothing with European setters who had an entirely different culture including moral ethics and work ethics.

Thailand is its own worst enemy.

[HeijoshinCool]

Time to move on, guys. The OP is not here to learn, or even engage in reasonable and edifying debate. Rather he is here to lecture, while using disparaging remarks and false accusations. He's a newbie who is having a great first year in LOS, and already knows everything.

Like so many before him, he'll stop posting and vanish in a year or two.

It's a troll thread. Let it die, as well it should.

[goreme]

"The OP is not here to learn, or even engage in reasonable and edifying debate. Rather he is here to lecture, while using disparaging remarks and false accusations..."

Yet you and other forum police conveniently turn a blind eye to all the thinly veiled racism and rude remarks made about the Thai people and their country.

[goreme]

Of course if it had the resources and infrastructure of the US, many of it's problems would be solved but it doesn't - stop whining and deal with it.

"The truth is that if it would solve its problems it could have the resources and infrastructure of the US. The US started out as nothing with European setters who had an entirely different culture including moral ethics and work ethics."

Please learn some history as your statement simply feeds into the ignorant American stereotype.

Read up on how early US industry was built on the backs of slave labor and the primary beneficiaries-- for generations to come, have been primarily white Americans while blacks have been disenfranchised.

[goreme]

You and other farangs on this forum often like to make disparaging comments about saving face with very little understanding of its cultural significance.

Is under reporting of crime unique to Thailand? How many rapes and other acts of domestic violence w/guns or otherwise go unreported in the US? Given such high rates of occurrence, you can bet there is fair amount of under reporting of crimes in the US intentional or not.

Any road rage that youve heard about in Thailand pales in comparison to the frequency and severity that occurs in US/UK/Australia. If you find Thailand so much more dangerous than the US, why are you still here?

Ah... so it was an 'If you don't like it leave' thread all along.

As an observation: The quality of US Government Statistical Social Data is recognised throughout the world..... And, extremely reliable statistical tools are applied in US data to account for discrepancies arising from under-reporting and reporting errors.

As has been pointed out above; When the Thai statistical data for crime, accidents, deaths, health or any other social indicators hit the news as 'bad news', they, the statistics have a habit of suddenly and inexplicably improving.

There is no better example than the fatality/injury data around road accidents over Songkran, or the statistics on the use of illegal drugs.

Both of which have taken nose dives in the very year after a 'Government' announcement to solve the problem.

Anywhere else on the planet solving social problems takes decades - Thailand it happens overnight..... as if by the stroke of a magic eraser.

Of course the OP has been in Thailand 'long enough' to know this.

It's pretty clear your arrogant, know it all attitude distorts your view of Thailand. What you cant seem to grasp is that for all Thailand's faults, perceived or otherwise, you and many farangs are treated pretty damn well - much better than you deserve to be given your often disrespectful and disparaging criticisms of Thais.

Thailand is a developing country, which compared to other developing countries--even many eastern European ones, affords a quality of life that cant be beat when taking into account cost of living, hospitality of the people and mostly sunny weather. Of course if it had the resources and infrastructure of the US, many of it's problems would be solved but it doesn't - stop whining and deal with it.

Can you please clearly identify the disrespectful and disparaging criticism of Thais you accuse me of, or man-up and apologise.

Anywhere else on the planet solving social problems takes decades - Thailand it happens overnight..... as if by the stroke of a magic eraser.

I would say tone of this statement is full of contempt and lacking any real understanding about the state of a developing country. How something like is considered 'edifying' by the forum police is beyond me.

[rijb]

Thank god you're here to defend the Thai people and their country!

They're too undeveloped to do it themselves.

[GuestHouse]

Anywhere else on the planet solving social problems takes decades - Thailand it happens overnight..... as if by the stroke of a magic eraser.

I would say tone of this statement is full of contempt and lacking any real understanding about the state of a developing country. How something like is considered 'edifying' by the forum police is beyond me.

So you have no evidence of me making direspectful or disparaging criticisms of Thais and now respond that you surmise from your interpretation of my 'tone' that my comments are full of contempt and the lack of any resl understanding about the state of a developing country.

In the light of a lack of evidence to back up your accusations you resort to your own misconceptions.

A gentleman would accept he's made a false accusation and appologise.

I'll leave that matter for to the board to judge.

But please do not lecture me on what is or is not 'edifying' whileever you're unable to man-up to your mistakes.

[Rhys]

Da Brother be doin his thang in the USA and now in Tland.. Word Bro.. Doin ya Thang here or there is doin ya THANG. Da Man be comin, ya best be da running.

Bro be tankin, he be coole in Tland.. Word bro it be hot wheres ever you put da smokin kind.. Be chillin.

[JockPieandBeans]

Anywhere else on the planet solving social problems takes decades - Thailand it happens overnight..... as if by the stroke of a magic eraser.

I would say tone of this statement is full of contempt and lacking any real understanding about the state of a developing country. How something like is considered 'edifying' by the forum police is beyond me.

So you have no evidence of me making direspectful or disparaging criticisms of Thais and now respond that you surmise from your interpretation of my 'tone' that my comments are full of contempt and the lack of any resl understanding about the state of a developing country.

In the light of a lack of evidence to back up your accusations you resort to your own misconceptions.

A gentleman would accept he's made a false accusation and appologise.

I'll leave that matter for to the board to judge.

But please do not lecture me on what is or is not 'edifying' whileever you're unable to man-up to your mistakes.

HJC called it correct.

Troll alert Troll Alert Troll Alert

[Amavel]

I also moved from US to avoid gun violence. The majority of gun violence here is gang related, kids shooting kids. Random acts at the mall or movies or schools are almost unheard of. The only problem is that statistically the dangers are a tie with all the horrible drivers here.

The deciding factor as an American is quality of life which is better here due to weather, food and above all affordable quality healthcare.

[goreme]

Anywhere else on the planet solving social problems takes decades - Thailand it happens overnight..... as if by the stroke of a magic eraser.

I would say tone of this statement is full of contempt and lacking any real understanding about the state of a developing country. How something like is considered 'edifying' by the forum police is beyond me.

So you have no evidence of me making direspectful or disparaging criticisms of Thais and now respond that you surmise from your interpretation of my 'tone' that my comments are full of contempt and the lack of any resl understanding about the state of a developing country.

In the light of a lack of evidence to back up your accusations you resort to your own misconceptions.

A gentleman would accept he's made a false accusation and appologise.

I'll leave that matter for to the board to judge.

But please do not lecture me on what is or is not 'edifying' whileever you're unable to man-up to your mistakes.

No apology from me, I stand by what i said. If you were attempting humor in that snippet then it was in very poor taste.

[GuestHouse]

OP you've been a member here since the end of last month, I suspect you've not been in Thailand much longer.

Your habbit of making unfounded accusations and inability to appologise when clearly mistaken will ensure you have an eventful stay in Thailand and here on TV.

Please forgive my tardiness in offering you a welcome to Thailand and TVF.

I'm sure you're adventures in both are going to give us all some light relief.

But please do return the courtesy, don't do what so many others do when their saffron tinted sunglasses fall off and slip out without saying goodbye.

Edited April 21, 2015 by GuestHouse

[goreme]

OP you've been a member here since the end of last month, I suspect you've not been in Thailand much longer.

Your habbit of making unfounded accusations and inability to appologise when clearly mistaken will ensure you have an eventful stay in Thailand and here on TV.

Please forgive my tardiness in offering you a welcome to Thailand and TVF.

I'm sure you're adventures in both are going to give us all some light relief.

But please do return the courtesy, don't do what so many others do when their saffron tinted sunglasses fall off and slip out without saying goodbye.

I suspect you and other farangs on TV who have such negative views of Thailand dont have much runway left in life, so for that your forgiven for not acknowledging the error of your ways.

If my time in Thailand ever reaches the point where I start wasting precious time whining about things that are out of my control, then finding greener pastures will be in order.

[GuestHouse]

Once again "Such negative views"

Please show me my 'such negative views'.

[GuestHouse]

Once again "Such negative views"

Please show me my 'such negative views'.

[goreme]

Once again "Such negative views"

Please show me my 'such negative views'.

One more chance to redeem yourself, you said:

Anywhere else on the planet solving social problems takes decades - Thailand it happens overnight..... as if by the stroke of a magic eraser.

What was your point in making such a derisive comment if not to parrot the oft repeated deficiencies of the Thais and their govt?

If you can provide plausible explanation all is forgiven.

[GuestHouse]

Let me give you a couple of examples (which I expect you to ignore).

During the early 2000s and in the face of concern over mounting evidence that industrial accidents where damaging Thailand's reputation as a place to invest - The law was changed with respect to who has the right to record a death or injury by industrial accident/process. This seems reasonable, we don't want just anyone recording industrial related deaths//injuries and thereby damaging Thailand's reputation.

Except the law change was to make it illegal for anyone other than the chief medical officer of Thailand's Board of Investment to record an industrial injury or death - Any doctor, even at the scene of the accident, is committing a crime for which he can have his license to practice medicine rescinded if he records the injury or death as caused by an industrial accident of industrial process.

This has done wonders for Thailand's industrial safety statistics.

To keep it topical, the previous government in their crackdown on road safety changed the definition of what constitutes a death by road accident to 'deaths pronounced at the scene of the accident' - Deaths between the accident and hospital or in the hospital after the accident are no longer counted (Deaths recorded against road accidents in private hospitals have never been counted in the official statistics).

And of course the mummy of all statistical fiddles - The rice support scheme - Where to start really: The statistics on productivity, the statistics on rice in store, the statistics on rice shipped, the statistics on money handed to farmers, the statistics on farmers still awaiting payment.

Or shall we just go the the persecution of civil servants academics, activists and business people who contradicted the official statistics and were accused of 'trying to harm Thailand'?

Of course you'll know all this because you've been around long enough.

[GuestHouse]

I had a feeling the OP wouldn't stay long.

Please forgive my tardiness in offering you a welcome to Thailand and TVF.

I'm sure you're adventures in both are going to give us all some light relief.

But please do return the courtesy, don't do what so many others do when their saffron tinted sunglasses fall off and slip out without saying goodbye.

But I didn't expect him to slip out the back door quite so soon.