Need Help Cooling My House/Attic in Bangkok

[jsgatse]

Hello.

I live in Bangkok in a 2 story home with an attic. The upstairs floor is about 35C during the day, and the attic itself gets up around 45C+. You literally get blasted with a wall of heat when you walk up to the second floor of the home.

I'd like to vent my attic as it seems to basically just bake all day and then hold in a ton of heat which then begins to heat up the top floor of the house.

The attic does have vents in the soffits, fyi.

When I lived in the US, our home had an electric powered attic fan that was set to a termostat - when the temperature in the attic reached a certain point, this thing would kick on and the suck all the hot air right out of the attic. It really worked well. I'm not sure if this sort of item exists in Thailand. If it does exist, I'm not sure I would trust a local guy to install it. Does anyone know of a SOLID seller and installer of these items in the Bangkok area?

If not, it seems that the whirlybird / self powered items are the next/only remaining solution? I've read all the past forums, and while there is some debate about them - the overall consensus is that they seem to work (at least that's my analysis of the overall comments). Again, I don't want to trust the local yo-yo to punch a hole in my roof and then tell me "sure, mister, no leaks ever" and then he doesn't answer my phone after the first rainfall and my ceiling is waterlogged. Again, anyone in BKK have first hand experience with someone that "gets it" and does a first class job?

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

[metisdead]

Years ago, I had insulation placed above the ceiling upstairs. After I did had this done, I went over next door to the same type of house with a thermometer and measured their temperature upstairs and then came back to my house and measured my upstairs temperature, and my upstairs temperature was noticeably cooler than my neighbor's. Insulation may be an option to consider.

I think this would be better in the DIY forum for some more and maybe better answers, moving to the DIY forum.

[jsgatse]

Years ago, I had insulation placed above the ceiling upstairs. After I did had this done, I went over next door to the same type of house with a thermometer and measured their temperature upstairs and then came back to my house and measured my upstairs temperature, and my upstairs temperature was noticeably cooler than my neighbor's. Insulation may be an option to consider.

I think this would be better in the DIY forum for some more and maybe better answers, moving to the DIY forum.

Thanks for your note. I've looked a few times at insulation at my local HomePro - the 3 people (over the course of 3 separate visits) I spoke with were really clueless. They didn't even know if it went directly under the roof tiles, or, if it lay directly above the ceiling. I just gave up with them. Did you buy your insulation at a "HomePro" type store? Did they install it for you? If I found someone who knew what they were doing, I'd much rather have them crawling around up there in that heat than me!

And, anyone have any experience with a electric powered exhaust fan type system?

Thanks.

[recycler]

Many houses in Thailand have this problem, the solution is insulation and ventilation.

We had our roof insulated with PU foam by a company called Lohr (http://www.lohr-trade.com/), another advantage is that they give 5 year warranty against leaking, another frequent problem with Thai roofs.

It reduces the temperature on the top floor considerable and reduces the need for aircon.

[sanuk711]

Most people I know in Oz are using solar roof extractors...... you can buy them quite cheap from the Alibaba site... don't know what the customs will want to add on.

[attrayant]

I'd love to ventilate but have no idea how I'd cut through those cement roof tiles they use here. Yes there are tiny holes in the soffit, but clearly ineffective. I did the insulation above the ceiling sheetrock over my bedroom, but just mine alone. My point-n-click thermometer tells me the ceiling is a few degrees cooler in my room compared to the others, but darned if I can feel it. Adding stud walls & insulation to the bedroom's external walls made a much more noticeable difference.

[bangon04]

May sound odd, but had success at low cost with some reflective sheet - the stuff you normally put in the car windshield to keep the car cool when it is parked outside.

Even though I used it inside the condo it still made a difference. Of course it looks weird if it is plain view, but I have hidden it behind furniture, in the fitted wardrobe, on the balcony wall etc. I only have a small condo, so I can't say if it could do a whole house.... Cheap rolls of the stuff at Homepro etc

If you are using it out of sight in an attic might be an easy cheap way to DIY.

[jsgatse]

Many houses in Thailand have this problem, the solution is insulation and ventilation.

We had our roof insulated with PU foam by a company called Lohr (http://www.lohr-trade.com/), another advantage is that they give 5 year warranty against leaking, another frequent problem with Thai roofs.

It reduces the temperature on the top floor considerable and reduces the need for aircon.

Reycler - thanks very much.

Can I ask about how much they charged for what sized house? Also, would you say the temperature difference is really noticeable?

Do you also have some sort of vent running as well? What kind?

Thanks so much!

[jsgatse]

Most people I know in Oz are using solar roof extractors...... you can buy them quite cheap from the Alibaba site... don't know what the customs will want to add on.

Anybody seen these type of things here in Thailand? I'd love to find out if someone is importing and installing them (properly)!

Thanks!!!!

[Mario2008]

2 ways to insulate at homepro:

1. directly under the roof, with sunshield alu pe or the likes.

2. directly on the ceiling, with materials like "staycool".

Don't know what the best way to insulate a home is.

[Mario2008]

I'd love to ventilate but have no idea how I'd cut through those cement roof tiles they use here. Yes there are tiny holes in the soffit, but clearly ineffective. I did the insulation above the ceiling sheetrock over my bedroom, but just mine alone. My point-n-click thermometer tells me the ceiling is a few degrees cooler in my room compared to the others, but darned if I can feel it. Adding stud walls & insulation to the bedroom's external walls made a much more noticeable difference.

If you do not cover the entire ceiling of the building, it will be less effective as you will have "leakage" of hot air.

[mike324]

Insulating should be done, but could be a big hassle. I suggest installing a solar panel and hook it up to a AC, could be done as low as 100,000 to 200,000 depending on the size. Many installers nowadays.

[jsgatse]

Insulating should be done, but could be a big hassle. I suggest installing a solar panel and hook it up to a AC, could be done as low as 100,000 to 200,000 depending on the size. Many installers nowadays.

Are you saying to put an AC unit in my attic and run it? Wowza, that would be like trying to put out a raging fire with a drinking straw (not to mention probably about 3,000 THB a month in extra electrical costs)!

Or, am I misunderstanding your suggestion?

[bazza40]

Get the thickest blanket type insulation at HomePro. ( 5 inches ? ) They usually have a person there who will handle the installation. From memory, 100 sqm ( 10 squares ) will cost about 15,000 baht including installation.

The whirlybirds do work, but they need decent windspeed to be really effective. And as you've said, you won't know if it's properly installed until the first monsoon rains. Probably better off just enlarging the existing vents.

[metisdead]

Years ago, I had insulation placed above the ceiling upstairs. After I did had this done, I went over next door to the same type of house with a thermometer and measured their temperature upstairs and then came back to my house and measured my upstairs temperature, and my upstairs temperature was noticeably cooler than my neighbor's. Insulation may be an option to consider.

I think this would be better in the DIY forum for some more and maybe better answers, moving to the DIY forum.

Thanks for your note. I've looked a few times at insulation at my local HomePro - the 3 people (over the course of 3 separate visits) I spoke with were really clueless. They didn't even know if it went directly under the roof tiles, or, if it lay directly above the ceiling. I just gave up with them. Did you buy your insulation at a "HomePro" type store? Did they install it for you? If I found someone who knew what they were doing, I'd much rather have them crawling around up there in that heat than me!

And, anyone have any experience with a electric powered exhaust fan type system?

Thanks.

Yes, I bought the insulation at our local HomePro, arranged for installation. HomePro delivered the insulation, a day later I think it was, a guy showed up on a motorbike with a note from HomePro. Showed him the entry through the ceiling, I even handed him the insulation pack by pack until he was done unrolling it all.

He was a sweaty mess when he got done, I handed him a towel and let him have a shower before he left.

[facthailand]

More than 10 years ago, we'd seen spray-in attic foam insulation at a home fair.

Advantages were supposed to be cooler attic, therefore cooler upstairs, and seal the roof so no leaks.

The foam is sprayed onto the underside of the cement roof tiles in the attic.

Fabulous theory! I can tell you our attic and upstairs is not one whit cooler so save your money. And we have one pesky leak somewhere under the foam we can't locate!

Fans, either in the roof vents or breached into the roof itself must help, at least.

[Timebandit]

If you you have the resources the ultimate solution would be a second " fly " roof over your existing roof like the old

Land Rovers had. Like a tent fly. It doesn't have to be weatherproof. It is a shade only. Any breeze will carry away the heat before it reaches your house. Suggest 8 to 12 inches above your existing roof. Fiber-cement may be a good material but secure it enough to withstand a rare windstorm. It worked very well in Panama as the workers were scratching their heads.

[Preacher]

Considering what kind of roof insulation to get myself. Will be a closed roof, with airholes at the underside of the roof, th part that overhangs the walls.

I have 3 options:

1. directly under the roof tiles
2. directly above the ceiling
3. do both.

Anybody a good idea about what would be best. I lke option 3, the most expensive, but not that much more, however might also trap heat in the inside of the roof and most compnies seem to promote either 1 or 2 and not option 3.

[bazza40]

More than 10 years ago, we'd seen spray-in attic foam insulation at a home fair.

Advantages were supposed to be cooler attic, therefore cooler upstairs, and seal the roof so no leaks.

The foam is sprayed onto the underside of the cement roof tiles in the attic.

Fabulous theory! I can tell you our attic and upstairs is not one whit cooler so save your money. And we have one pesky leak somewhere under the foam we can't locate!

Fans, either in the roof vents or breached into the roof itself must help, at least.

The foam was sprayed in the wrong place. Should have been sprayed on the topside of the ceiling. TIT strikes again.

Encapsulated fibreglass is much better than all types of spray-in foams in terms of fire hazard. It doesn't burn. If the foam used was a polyurethane formula, in the event of fire, the breakdown products include hydrogen cyanide - the same compound used in gas chambers.

[bankruatsteve]

All the above is good stuff - maybe. The only way to cool a house in this weather is A/C. Duh.

[whaleboneman]

If you you have the resources the ultimate solution would be a second " fly " roof over your existing roof like the old

Land Rovers had. Like a tent fly. It doesn't have to be weatherproof. It is a shade only. Any breeze will carry away the heat before it reaches your house. Suggest 8 to 12 inches above your existing roof. Fiber-cement may be a good material but secure it enough to withstand a rare windstorm. It worked very well in Panama as the workers were scratching their heads.

Sorry to say but I think this is your own invention. If you want a second "roof" use solar panels and it will pay for itself.

To the OP: do you have a peaked roof and if so, are there vents near the peak as well as soffit vents? If you have a peaked roof, there is no need for powered ventilation as hot air will flow out the peak vents and cooler air will flow into the soffit vents. If the roof is flat, you probably should have a powered fan to ventilate it.

I personally believe that proper ventilation combined will thick insulation applied just above the ceiling is what you need.

[whaleboneman]

All the above is good stuff - maybe. The only way to cool a house in this weather is A/C. Duh.

Even if you use AC, a properly insulated and vented attic space will cut down your bills substantially. Personally, I hate Ac as I prefer acclimatization. And fans usually keep me cool enough.

[jacko45k]

A more expensive option is the hardening spray foam on the underside of your roof tiles.

Added advantage of preventing water leaks and improved security.

[chiang mai]

The first step is to ventilate the roof space and since heat rises, the only effective way to do that is to instal a vent in the gable end or the peak of the roof itself. The second part of that process is to instal eve or siffit vents at the lowest level of the roof possible, they will allow cooller air to drawn in to replace the evauated warmer air.

If the above doesn't produce sufficent tempreture reduction, a thermostatically controlled venting fan should be installed at the gable end vent, an alternative to this is a whirly bird fan although these are not the nicest looking pieces of kit.

A third step is to insulate the floor of the roof void, you need to be careful with this since the use of air con in the upper floors can work against the insultion above and can cause destructive condensation which can cause the ceiling to collapse.

A note on soffit/eve ventilation: the amount of hot air escaping from the gable/roof vent needs to be balanced against the input source of new colder air, and vica versa. If you have decent sized gable vents, say one metre by one metre, you need a similarly sized input source, it's no use hoping that cooler air will be drawn through the cracks between tiles or via the rubber ends at the tile line because it wont. One solution is to instal a series of cooker hood vents designed for installation into the eves, at THB 210 each from Global House they provide a three inch grill covered source for pulling in cooler air - I installed twenty of these around the house and they work really well and are not unattractive.

EDIT to add:

It's a complete waste of time to instal soffit/eves vents alone, without having a vent higher in the roof to allow the hot air to escape. Eves/soffit vents are designed to allow cooler air to enter the roof void, not to allow hot air to escape. Think about it, those soffit/eves vents are typically located beolw the level of the upper floor ceiling hence they are useless if used in isolation.

Also, an exhaust fan alone in the roof void is dangerous/ill advised if used in isolation of soffit vents, simply the fan will remove the hot air from the roof void which needs to be replaced, if there is no way to pull in cooler air from the outside it will draw in the cooler air conditioned air from the upper floors hence your air conditioner will never work properly - as mentioned earlier, in that scenario, installing insulation in the floor of the roof void compounds the above problem by causing condensation.

[Crossy]

Good stuff CM ^^^.

Just one question. I'm not sure about your assertion that insulating the ceiling (floor of the roof void) can cause condensation. What's the mechanism involved?

[chiang mai]

Good stuff CM ^^^.

Just one question. I'm not sure about your assertion that insulating the ceiling (floor of the roof void) can cause condensation. What's the mechanism involved?

Cooler air derived from air con in the upper floors meets hot air in the roof void, condensation typically forms on the back of foil faced insulation, unless installed to face the right way. In previous discussions on this subject, posters have reported the problem extends beyond that alone, resulting from the extreme tempretures involved.

[chiang mai]

Some other trivia on the same subject FWIW:

Wooden roller blinds installed outside a window are really useful in helping reduce the impact of sunlight on glass, decorative too.

PU foam on the underside of the roof is the king of it all, figure on THB 600 a square metre so not inexpensive.

Thai Ashai Glass (AGC) make a laminated glass product called "laminade", two sheets of glass with a laminate in the middle, not to be confused with double glazing since this is a single sheet of glass, measures 6 mil. Works really well at reducing the effect of sunlight on glass. Tinted Film is a quarter of the cost of laminated glass but hey, it doesn't work that well on my car so no reason to believe it'll work any better in my house!

At end of the day, concrete and steel construction is difficult to retrofit for heat absorbption, biggest problem is in trying to understand where the heat source is comming from, radiated (and if so from where) or convected.

Loads of great products available in Aus and elsewhere to help with the problem of house cooling, not much to be seen here however, sadly.

[IMHO]

Thai Ashai Glass (AGC) make a laminated glass product called "laminade", two sheets of glass with a laminate in the middle, not to be confused with double glazing since this is a single sheet of glass, measures 6 mil. Works really well at reducing the effect of sunlight on glass. Tinted Film is a quarter of the cost of laminated glass but hey, it doesn't work that well on my car so no reason to believe it'll work any better in my house!

The AGC Solartag+ (tinted) glass performs incredibly well against direct sunlight - it's no better than standard glass for sound insulation, and not as good as double glazing for heat insulation - but if direct sunlight is the problem, it's highly recommended.

[worgeordie]

I would be wary of putting those blanket type insulations in the ceiling,

as you maybe just making a home for rats,tree rats,that seem to be a

problem here,especially in the rainy season when they move in to get

out of the rain.

Plant trees and bushes around the house,use water features,(if you can)

it will make your house look much nicer and keep your house cooler.but

that will be a long term project till the trees grow.

regards Worgeordie

[Naam]

Years ago, I had insulation placed above the ceiling upstairs. After I did had this done, I went over next door to the same type of house with a thermometer and measured their temperature upstairs and then came back to my house and measured my upstairs temperature, and my upstairs temperature was noticeably cooler than my neighbor's. Insulation may be an option to consider.

I think this would be better in the DIY forum for some more and maybe better answers, moving to the DIY forum.

Thanks for your note. I've looked a few times at insulation at my local HomePro - the 3 people (over the course of 3 separate visits) I spoke with were really clueless. They didn't even know if it went directly under the roof tiles, or, if it lay directly above the ceiling. I just gave up with them. Did you buy your insulation at a "HomePro" type store? Did they install it for you? If I found someone who knew what they were doing, I'd much rather have them crawling around up there in that heat than me!

And, anyone have any experience with a electric powered exhaust fan type system?

Thanks.

use the search function, several threads about attic ventilation exist. the type of attic fan available in the U.S. is not available here (US fans are meant for plywood/shingle roofs and not for tiled roofs) you have to improvise. a simple solution, albeit not as efficient as a powered fan, is a whirly bird. the installation does not require a degree in rocket science and the possibility of a leak is very low due to the attachments it comes with.