Maize and Rotational Crops

[wayned]

22 minutes ago, thoongfoned said:

only employ close family that can be trusted.

I've found over the past 20 years that when it comes to money it's sometimes hard to find close family that you can trust!  I could write a book!

[thoongfoned]

finding people or family that will work or want to work daily  is always frustrating both here and at "home" for me. some friends here joke thats why we have so many children..

[farmerjo]

I find it easiest to hire no one other than have the Fil spend his spare time on the whipper snipper and i do the rest.

Only takes a couple or 3 days at a time to prepare,plant,maintain and harvest.

And if i'm not growing anything,3 days with the slasher/brush hog to mow it and keep it looking respectable.

[thoongfoned]

being fully mechanized like yourself is for sure the way to go... if funds allow.555

i find that local people who have been educated-spent time abroad tend to think along these lines also.

[farmerjo]

10 hours ago, thoongfoned said:

being fully mechanized like yourself is for sure the way to go... if funds allow.555

i find that local people who have been educated-spent time abroad tend to think along these lines also.

Some people live in big houses with a little shed,i live in a small house with a big shed.

I think mobile machinery is a good flexible asset in Thailand if you have the ability to fix and maintain it.

Locals who have invested in machines here and have had some sort of formal training are doing well.

Others that haven't don't last long.

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by farmerjo

[thoongfoned]

farmerjo in your area has the kobuta tractors 35hp and up really taken off, ie every other home have one? going back 10 or so years around us the only tractors that you could sit on would have been the fords, old or new, and 1 or 2 in each village. then 7 years ago kobuta opened a shop just down the road, and slowly but surely alot of people have tractors, mostly 35 to 47 hp. we leased a 47hp when that shop first opened, kept it for a couple of years, i trashed it, very heavy right foot, then sold it on.  same sort of thing with the macros, one in the village then a few dealerships open in the city and loads about all chasing work.

i found that the maintance with kobuta to be excellent, also very cheap, even when you have to get the low loader out....555 i joke with the owners that the running gear of all the small tractors is very weak and thats why they do so much business, they even agree. i still take engines ect for them to work on now, even if they are non kobota. 

[kickstart]

1 hour ago, thoongfoned said:

farmerjo in your area has the kobuta tractors 35hp and up really taken off, ie every other home have one? going back 10 or so years around us the only tractors that you could sit on would have been the fords, old or new, and 1 or 2 in each village. then 7 years ago kobuta opened a shop just dowket n the road, and slowly but surely alot of people have tractors, mostly 35 to 47 hp. we leased a 47hp when that shop first opened, kept it for a couple of years, i trashed it, very heavy right foot, then sold it on.  same sort of thing with the macros, one in the village then a few dealerships open in the city and loads about all chasing work.

i found that the maintance with kobuta to be excellent, also very cheap, even when you have to get the low loader out....555 i joke with the owners that the running gear of all the small tractors is very weak and thats why they do so much business, they even agree. i still take engines ect for them to work on now, even if they are non kobota. 

11

In this area Yanmar tractors are becoming popular, the same  type of tractor,35-45hp .there dealership is local .

I would say the things farmers are looking at are  the "deals" Yanmar are doing, initial deposit, intrest rates over x years ,and will  I get a nice free jacket.

Yanmar could be undercutting Kubota.

[wayned]

15 minutes ago, kickstart said:

n this area Yanmar tractors are becoming popular, the same  type of tractor,35-45hp .there dealership is local .

I would say the things farmers are looking at are  the "deals" Yanmar are doing, initial deposit, intrest rates over x years ,and will  I get a nice free jacket.

Yanmar could be undercutting Kubota.

The New Holland dealer here tried that a few years ago and after 1 year to 18 months he ended up with some slightly used/almost new tractors on his lot and a lot less jackets! Selling anything on time to the farmers around here is a real gamble.

Edited December 28, 2017 by wayned

[thoongfoned]

99% of those kubota are leased then repossessed in the following years, the dealer makes their bit on the money down and the exccessories, then the maintance. the dealership down the road has now trebled in size and all the outside space not coverded is repo tractors combines ect.... 

friend who had a tractor repossessed had to pay the money staight out to have it fixed up for resale (it was trashed in the short time he had it) now he pays 1,000baht every month till god only knows when.... been paying for 5 plus years aready.... we were luckly to be able to sell our tractor on..

[wayned]

I have a friend that has bought the same pickup and had it repossessed twice and when he went to buy it the third time the dealer had sold it to someone else and he had to buy a different one!

[thoongfoned]

the wife is guarantor for toooo many of her sisters with pickups,  the sisters with thai husbands always pay the bill on time each month, the sisters with "falang" husbands are always late and she ends up helping out, i always say let them repo the truck, one truck is almost new just sitting in a garage not even 2000km on the clock, with 6 years of payments to go.... i would not mind helping if money was tight for them, ( but they earn very well) it is mainly them just being horrible to there wifes....family for ya.

[farmerjo]

What's the old saying,can choose your friends...

 

On the tractors side and the reliability you talk about and reposession.

In the north-east the ground is pretty tight with the amount of clay in the soil.

The  procedures of carnage that stand out are using a rotary tiller,slasher or ploughing deep 1st pass. Thai's have this bad habit of driving a tractor with the foot throttle!!! causing overheating of engines,hydraulics,PTO clutches and failure of FWA hubs.

Even owning a harvester i don't like taking it into wet fields,even though on tracks.There not made for it.

 

 

[wayned]

The three JD harvesters that we have are not tracked so this year, because of the wet weather, the Coop bought a used Thai tracked combine along with the ten wheel lowboy to haul it around, 700,000 baht for both. They tripled the drying area and also bought a used heavy duty Komatsu front end loader.  We've discussed my importing a JD 3510 from the US to harvest the cane but the consensus is "not yet".  If they bought the harvester they would also have to increase the size of the truck fleet since the harvester requires dedicated trucks when harvesting and the whole "Mechanized" cane harvesting concept has not really caught on yet, much like the corn was when I imported the first JD years ago and now almost nobody harvests corn by hand.

 

The Coop is actually hosting and paying for the local new Years party this year, on the new drying area since the usual government sponsored party has been cancelled due to lack of funds.  It's actually on the 30th , not the 31st, since  all the entertainment and cooking services were booked when they finally made the decision to sponsor it.

[kickstart]

5 hours ago, wayned said:

The three JD harvesters that we have are not tracked so this year, because of the wet weather, the Coop bought a used Thai tracked combine along with the ten wheel lowboy to haul it around, 700,000 baht for both. They tripled the drying area and also bought a used heavy duty Komatsu front enkd loader.  We've discussed my importing a JD 3510 from the US to harvest the cane but the consensus is "not yet".  If they bought the harvester they would also have to increase the size of the truck fleet since the harvester requires dedicated trucks when harvesting and the whole "Mechanized" cane harvesting concept has not really caught on yet, much like the corn was when I imported the first JD years ago and now almost nobody harvests corn by hand.

 

The Coop is actually hosting and paying for the local new Years party this year, on the new drying area since the usual government sponsored party has been cancelled due to lack of funds.  It's actually on the 30th , not the 31st, since  all the entertainment and cooking services were booked when they finally made the decision to sponsor it.

We have a lot of cane harvesters around here ,no JD's, all Case, imported mainly from  Australia or Brazil, well second hand , most seem to be 2-3 million baht each, one ,that I know of is owned by our, local sugar mill ,maybe more  not certain, it will be the way to go ,as cutters are getting difficult to find .

But a good team of cutters can cut  a 25 rie field, quicker than a harvester can cut , and they often have a logistic problem, harvesters sitting in a field waiting for trucks/ tractors, have heard trucks/ tractors waiting for 2 days waiting to tip they load,at the mill.

 

 

But one good thing, machine harvested crops ,are cut direct, no burning ,so better for the environment.

wayned,   A question for you , your co-op , they brought the Beasts, with your help from the USA  ,just spent 700 000  on a tracked  combine ,and a truck to haul it ,plus a payloader, increased  the drying area , now talking about buying a cane harvester , and probably increasing the truck fleet .

How do they pay for it all , with the price of maize, not good , they maine income ?, you once said they were maxed out at the bank.  the bank being Tor-Kor-Sor, or BAAC ? , now thay must be maxed plus, plus .

A dairy co-op near me ,a big one was once 100 million in debt ,they then browed 150 million to buy up to 200 dairy heifers, and build buildings ,and milking parlour, all on a greenfield site ,up to press not made one baht profit ,and far as I can see never will , this loan come from  the government savings bank. 

Do you think it is our intrepid government, subsidizing Thai farming though BAAC ,or what .I can remember 15 years ago reading, farmers borrowing from BAAC, was  so high that it will take ,at that time,  50 years ,to recoup they loans, what is it now , and Thai farmers are not always in a hurry to pay back they loans, some  if ever .

[farmerjo]

Does anyone know what the legal limit(payload) is for a 10 wheel truck here in Thailand.

I used to think it was same as Aus but apparently it comes down to individual country laws.(roads and bridges)

25 tons??

Edited December 29, 2017 by farmerjo

[wayned]

20 hours ago, kickstart said:

wayned,   A question for you , your co-op , they brought the Beasts, with your help from the USA  ,just spent 700 000  on a tracked  combine ,and a truck to haul it ,plus a payloader, increased  the drying area , now talking about buying a cane harvester , and probably increasing the truck fleet .

How do they pay for it all , with the price of maize, not good , they maine income ?, you once said they were maxed out at the bank.  the bank being Tor-Kor-Sor, or BAAC ? , now thay must be maxed plus, plus .

To be honest with you I don't have a clue!  I contributed to most of the purchase of the first JD 6620 combine and a part of the purchase of the second JD 6620 and really haven't recovered anything back from the Coop but thought that it world be an investment for my wife but then she up and kicked the bucket before me and my son has absolutely no interest in any of it.  The wife of the Puyai keeps the books and the money so when money is needed Puyai has to go begging.  I didn't even know that the drying area was being intended or the purchase of the tracked combine and lowboy until it was a done deal.  I did do a little research on finding a used Komatsu front end loader but Puyai found one in Thailand. As far as the bank, it's BAAC, and I think that recently they have up the maximum amount of farm loans and I'm sure that everybody went and borrowed to the max.As far as the bank, it's BAAC, and I think that recently they have up the maximum amount of farm loans and I'm sure that everybody went and increased their present loans to the max.

[kickstart]

15 hours ago, farmerjo said:

Does anyone know what the legal limit(payload) is for a 10 wheel truck here in Thailand.

I used to think it was same as Aus but apparently it comes down to individual country laws.(roads and bridges)

25 tons??

With 3 axles and 10 wheels, 25 ton .

This road was only finished last year , so must be new regs ,the road is very local , does not get a lot of traffic ,but they still had to put up these signs up,and 6 km up this road  are  2 bridges ,we have a couple of local roads ,that are so good ,and have some weight limits on .

[farmerjo]

Thanks for that KS.

Was trying to do a few sums with a sugar harvester.

Generally to cut and transport harvest manual or machines will cost around 25% of the gross per ton.

Say 1000 baht/ton will get you 250 baht x average yield say 12 ton.

Equals 3000 baht/rai.Say 6 trucks that carry 20 ton and a harvester could do 10 rai a day,30,000 in minus wages,fuel,maintenance.Lets call that 15,000 all in.

To make 15,000 a day running a harvester,6 trucks,7 operators and 1 mechanic maybe worth while if you have an existing business for the trucks the other 8 months a year so your only outlay is the harvester which a cheap local copy would be suffice for 10 rai a day.

What point i'm not sure of is what insurance would be required for fire damage.      

Edited December 30, 2017 by farmerjo

[kickstart]

14 hours ago, farmerjo said:

Thanks for that KS.

Was trying to do a few sums with a sugar harvester.

Generally to cut and transport harvest manual or machines will cost around 25% of the gross per ton.

Say 1000 baht/ton will get you 250 baht x average yield say 12 ton.

Equals 3000 baht/rai.Say 6 trucks that carry 20 ton and a harvester could do 10 rai a day,30,000 in minus wages,fuel,maintenance.Lets call that 15,000 all in.

To make 15,000 a day running a harvester,6 trucks,7 operators and 1 mechanic maybe worth while if you have an existing business for the trucks the other 8 months a year so your only outlay is the harvester which a cheap local copy would be suffice for 10 rai a day.

What point i'm not sure of is what insurance would be required for fire damage.      

I can see where you are going,But  this year with cane prices at 700 baht/ton ,and to  cut and haule  to the mill , around here is   350 baht/ ton , that is  50 % of your costs .at your 12  ton rie/yield .4200 baht/rie to  havest 1 rie .makes a hole in the profit margin 

A lot of growers say you get less weight on a truck with  machine cut cane than with manual cut ,but  with  manual cut cane  the trucks are very often overloaded ,(is 20 ton of cane on a trailer hauled by  a Ford 6600 legal),the machine cut cane on a truck will more likely to be legal weight.

There is a problem in harvesters waiting  for trucks, a big queue at the mill, could slow the job down , but a lot of cane is hauled at night time ,less police stopping  trucks  for overweight  loads ,so in theory, morning comes you should have most of your trucks empty, after  tipping they loads at night time .

Have herd machine cut cane given priority over, hand cut cane at the mill when tipping.

Are any harvesters made in Thailand?,you put a link in last year,a company in Kanchanaburi, that imports second-hand harvesters, and re-recons them ,still would be sold on 2-3 millon baht.

I have not been there for a long while but the guy, where you brought your drill he was re-coning one cane  harvester .

As has been said with cutters getting more difficult to find , harvesters will be used more each year .

I think with the advent of the harvester, like a lot of things in farming the small guy will not be able to compete with the big growers, costs will be to high.leading to company farms taking over ?

Around here small fuel tankers are used , second-hand ones imported from Japan too fuel the harvesters, thay seem to use a lot of fuel ,and work long hours now fuel is relatively cheap ,a fuel increase could make machine harvesting, expensive for some smaller growers.

So, maybe your Issan weigh stations, may even catch on here , enabling the small guy to grow some cane .and make some money.

Insurance ,is there any in Thailand, never heard of public liability insurance, must exist for big company's ,but if my cane harvester caught fire , and then set light to a field of cane , who would be responsible, again would  the grower have any farm insurance  , something  as  basic as  motorbikes  not being  insured, and a  lot are not, would a farm be insured ,I have my doubts, a good question .

 

[thoongfoned]

we looked for insurance for the rubber trees many years ago, fire cover, no go as far as we called see-find. the only sort of offfer we got was from the govenment farmers bank, on the father in law, some sort of endowment.5555

[farmerjo]

Sugar,sorry CLW it snuck up and pasted before i finished.

Another way is with these wholestalk harvesters,haven't seen one operating but my local machinery company has sold 15 machines this year,hope he sells more so i might soon again get Thai prices there instead of Farang

Regards to the insurance i to have no idea either but would be reluctant to work other peoples land unless you saw it bare. 

When i say my i mean our,someone else's business,i stick to losing money farming.

Edited December 31, 2017 by farmerjo

[CLW]

ฤ

Cassava harvester?

[kickstart]

13 minutes ago, thoongfoned said:

we looked for insurance for the rubber trees many years ago, fire cover, no go as far as we called see-find. the only sort of offfer we got was from the govenment farmers bank, on the father in law, some sort of endowment.5555

Sounds if F In L has the same insurance as my misses, againe from BAAC,  800 baht/year premium, pays out 300 k dying in an accident, 20k from natural causes .5555.

[farmerjo]

2 hours ago, kickstart said:

I can see where you are going,But  this year with cane prices at 700 baht/ton ,and to  cut and haule  to the mill , around here is   350 baht/ ton , that is  50 % of your costs .at your 12  ton rie/yield .4200 baht/rie to  havest 1 rie .makes a hole in the profit margin 

A lot of growers say you get less weight on a truck with  machine cut cane than with manual cut ,but  with  manual cut cane  the trucks are very often overloaded ,(is 20 ton of cane on a trailer hauled by  a Ford 6600 legal),the machine cut cane on a truck will more likely to be legal weight.

There is a problem in harvesters waiting  for trucks, a big queue at the mill, could slow the job down , but a lot of cane is hauled at night time ,less police stopping  trucks  for overweight  loads ,so in theory, morning comes you should have most of your trucks empty, after  tipping they loads at night time .

Have herd machine cut cane given priority over, hand cut cane at the mill when tipping.

Are any harvesters made in Thailand?,you put a link in last year,a company in Kanchanaburi, that imports second-hand harvesters, and re-recons them ,still would be sold on 2-3 millon baht.

I have not been there for a long while but the guy, where you brought your drill he was re-coning one cane  harvester .

As has been said with cutters getting more difficult to find , harvesters will be used more each year .

I think with the advent of the harvester, like a lot of things in farming the small guy will not be able to compete with the big growers, costs will be to high.leading to company farms taking over ?

Around here small fuel tankers are used , second-hand ones imported from Japan too fuel the harvesters, thay seem to use a lot of fuel ,and work long hours now fuel is relatively cheap ,a fuel increase could make machine harvesting, expensive for some smaller growers.

So, maybe your Issan weigh stations, may even catch on here , enabling the small guy to grow some cane .and make some money.

Insurance ,is there any in Thailand, never heard of public liability insurance, must exist for big company's ,but if my cane harvester caught fire , and then set light to a field of cane , who would be responsible, again would  the grower have any farm insurance  , something  as  basic as  motorbikes  not being  insured, and a  lot are not, would a farm be insured ,I have my doubts, a good question .

 

Your right about the bigger farms KS,i've worked these figures around 1000 rai of sugar.

[kickstart]

18 minutes ago, CLW said:

23 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

ฤ

Cassava harvester?

Sugar cane havester ,no blade to dig in to the soil and lift the tubers, nowhere for the tubers to go when lifted.

[farmerjo]

Had the harvester out yesterday morning and took off some more sunn hemp.

The seed is a bit smaller than the 1st lot done but moisture was also down at 16%

 

 

[farmerjo]

Had an inch of rain a couple of nights ago so good opportunity to start levelling the rice field early.

 

 

[farmerjo]

Been a bit quiet on here with some around here still sugar cane harvesting and some finishing cassava.

We had 5mm of rain in a thunder storm yesterday to freshen things up

I had well made plans to bale some grass but that got stymied when the contractor with baler here died and his wife doesn't have anyone to operate it.(this was the day after i cut it)They don't have a rake to row it either which i needed as some come out a bit clumpy using the slasher to cut.My local machinery dealer wants 40,000 baht for a 4 wheel 3pl rake with 45 day delivery so must be of Chinese decent.

Thats all come and gone and on the backburner now

Have been thinking about what KS said a long time ago about what your soil type can grow by what weeds are around.

So with my undulating field growing rice weeds i have the Missus on the lookout for some Upland rice varieties and will trial that this year.

A couple of pics of the farm this morning.

 

[kickstart]

Hi FJ

        Been a bit quiet on here of late , did you find any upland rice verities, not a bad idea but will the yields be the same as the mainstream variety,or if it is something a bit different, maybe selling on a specialist market.

It has been a while since the photos where took .and that ricegrass has probably grown more, if you have had the rain we have ,but now would be the time to spray some Roundup, and with the hot season due soon ,running late  where we are ,it should die back a treat,hit it before it grows and seeds again .

Around here cane is still being harvested, still seems a lot to cut price is about 900.baht ton, again sugar content low, have heard of a few 1000 baht/ton crops,  but few and far between.

Cassava  is almost done, price about  2. 20 baht /KG, one buyer chips and drys his cassava, then loads it on to trucks take it down to Ayutthaya then on to boats, export to China, last year he sold 4000 ton this way , most is sold fresh, either to make cassava flour or fermented to make alcohol.

The few showers of rain we have had , farmers are out with the ploughs, a few are using 7 disc ploughs, after the 3 discs,I think it will be a while before any corn will be drilled.

But the misses said she has seen a crop of corn growing,  at about the  3-4 leaf stage ,that will need watering ,probably going for maize silage ,now 1 bag of maize silage is 55-60 baht/bag, depending on  the corn content  ,you get a lot of bags per one rie ,could be a nice income .

[farmerjo]

Hi KS,

That picture,the grasses etc are now back at 1 foot tall and all out in flower,

Just doing some boundary fence burning with the neighbours then will look at spraying it out once their all done.

Even though it all looks green,with the amount of mulch i have on the surface it will burn quite easily.

So it's been cat and mouse with the FIL,he lights everything up then i come along with the boomsprayer and put it all out before he burns to much.He's old fashioned Thai who likes to burn everything.

I don't know the variety of the upland rice yet,FIL assures me people have seed in the village,if that fails there is a rice research centre about 35kms away which can point me in the right direction.

I'm not going to get to scientific with it,just whack it in and see what happens.

I have ordered another 6 double disc opener assemblies so can get the corn planter down to 10-12 inch spacings,they arrive next week,a far bit of work coming up there.

Other than that some neighbours are still plottering along cutting sugar,cassava and replanting sugar.

Only seen one crop of maize in.The change here is a lot aspragas and lttle cucumber looking thingy plants going in,all under black plastic with drip tape set ups.