Turn The Tourists Away

[MaeJoMTB]

I've not seen any burning due to corn farming.

But I have seen plenty of forest undergrowth being burnt by hill-tribe mushroom gatherers.

[FolkGuitar]

Perhaps there actually IS an up-side to the air quality. There are two problems relating to the air quality; the actually figures, and the way people deal with them.

On the plus side, it causes a lot of chronic complainers to leave Chiang Mai, making it far more comfortable for those of us who choose to stay.

Spending today complaining about yesterday isn't going to make tomorrow better. Facing tomorrow with a better attitude will.

And before you say it, no, it won't make the air cleaner. But neither will complaining about the problem. It does, however, solve one of the two problems.

That's what we need 'a better attitude' and everything will be alright. It's OK to whinge about the road toll and drink driving.

You should remember that drink driving has been acceptable for many years. Thais have been doing it all the time. So have farangs. Tradition, can't interfere with tradition. So burn away it is what has been done for eons.

It is hard to believe to that in your 2263 posts you have never 'complained' about anything in Chiang Mai.

Strum away.

If you enjoy being upset, please feel free to continue to be so. If you enjoy being unhappy, please don't let me stand in your way.

If you think complaining about the air quality, complaining about the heat, complaining about the rain, or the myriad things over which you have absolutely control or influence, will have some effect, and this makes you happy, this (TV, that is,) is certainly the place for you to vacation, taking solace in the fact that there will be two or three others who also love to feel as miserable as you. Enjoy it. Sorry if the rest of us don't wish to wallow in your trough of despair .

Edited April 24, 2015 by FolkGuitar

[BB24]

My GF summed it all up best - "Up Country People". Where she comes from (South) all the farmers in the area each hire a local tractor each year and they plough everything back into the ground. She is not being 'superior' when she says all the farmers around here (including in Myanmar and Laos) are not eductaed and are backward - they are uneducated and ignorant - ANd there are more and more of them growing more and more crops every year. The only way to solve this problem is to educate and bring them forward - and even if this was does well and quickly it will take years. Like her I do not believe that will ever happen - so the solution to the problem (for us) is to move. Maybe if/when a lot of Farangs move away from Chiang Mai they will finally address the problem

[Chiengmaijoe]

My GF summed it all up best - "Up Country People". Where she comes from (South) all the farmers in the area each hire a local tractor each year and they plough everything back into the ground. She is not being 'superior' when she says all the farmers around here (including in Myanmar and Laos) are not eductaed and are backward - they are uneducated and ignorant - ANd there are more and more of them growing more and more crops every year. The only way to solve this problem is to educate and bring them forward - and even if this was does well and quickly it will take years. Like her I do not believe that will ever happen - so the solution to the problem (for us) is to move. Maybe if/when a lot of Farangs move away from Chiang Mai they will finally address the problem

You have a false self of importance maybe? Why would a lot of Farangs leaving be a cause for concern? I think that many Thais would consider it a cause for celebration, and with so many daft posts on here, yours included, I would tend to agree.

By the way, your girlfriend sums up what most Southern Thais think, namely that Northerners are thick. By their reckoning most Southeners would find it hard to believe that here in the North we have universities, doctors, teachers, scientists, architects and engineers.

You are quite right when you say that your wife is not being 'superior' when she says that all northern farmers are uneducated and ignorant. Quite clearly she is being bigoted.

The worst thing about people saying that they're going to leave is ...... they invariably don't. Let's hope that isn't true in your case. If you do actually decide to go, let us know if you need any help moving.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Chiengmaijoe

[Chicog]

My GF summed it all up best - "Up Country People". Where she comes from (South) all the farmers in the area each hire a local tractor each year and they plough everything back into the ground. She is not being 'superior' when she says all the farmers around here (including in Myanmar and Laos) are not eductaed and are backward - they are uneducated and ignorant - ANd there are more and more of them growing more and more crops every year. The only way to solve this problem is to educate and bring them forward - and even if this was does well and quickly it will take years. Like her I do not believe that will ever happen - so the solution to the problem (for us) is to move. Maybe if/when a lot of Farangs move away from Chiang Mai they will finally address the problem

You have a false self of importance maybe? Why would a lot of Farangs leaving be a cause for concern? I think that many Thais would consider it a cause for celebration, and with so many daft posts on here, yours included, I would tend to agree.

By the way, your girlfriend sums up what most Southern Thais think, namely that Northerners are thick. By their reckoning most Southeners would find it hard to believe that here in the North we have universities, doctors, teachers, scientists, architects and engineers.

You are quite right when you say that your wife is not being 'superior' when she says that all northern farmers are uneducated and ignorant. Quite clearly she is being bigoted.

The worst thing about people saying that they're going to leave is ...... they invariably don't. Let's hope that isn't true in your case. If you do actually decide to go, let us know if you need any help moving.

You seem to have a bit of self importance yourself. A large chunk of expats moving elsewhere would put a dent in the local economy. I doubt you'd make up for it on your own

Why are you defending this stupid burning with such passion?

[mr chow]

Pretzel logic...good one john. I understand that smoke/pollution can effect ones

Rationale.

[FolkGuitar]

You seem to have a bit of self importance yourself. A large chunk of expats moving elsewhere would put a dent in the local economy. I doubt you'd make up for it on your own

Why are you defending this stupid burning with such passion?

Perhaps the flaw in the logic is imagining that it's actually a 'large chunk' of expats who would consider moving... More realistically, it seems to be just a 'very vocal minority' that think the problem is so severe as to think about leaving. Of all the folks I know personally (not just friends, but acquaintances too,) there are none that leave during the burning season. Many do wear masks for a couple of weeks, but other than that make no changes in their daily lives.

[NancyL]

My GF summed it all up best - "Up Country People". Where she comes from (South) all the farmers in the area each hire a local tractor each year and they plough everything back into the ground. She is not being 'superior' when she says all the farmers around here (including in Myanmar and Laos) are not eductaed and are backward - they are uneducated and ignorant - ANd there are more and more of them growing more and more crops every year. The only way to solve this problem is to educate and bring them forward - and even if this was does well and quickly it will take years. Like her I do not believe that will ever happen - so the solution to the problem (for us) is to move. Maybe if/when a lot of Farangs move away from Chiang Mai they will finally address the problem

Isn't the topography different in south -- much flatter and easier for tractors to plough the ground. I'm under the impression that much of the burning is done on hillsides that otherwise can't be tilled by equipment.

And I fail to see the connection between "farangs" living in Chiang Mai and the burning. Local people were burning long before white people were here and they burn in areas where no white people live.

[ramrod711]

But you are right, it is a national disgrace and it is damaging very young kids (mostly thai of course) and killing very old or sick people. Regional governmenmt needs to take action now and not wait for the next annual hand-wringing in 2016

You are absolutely correct beau thai, the children grow up choking down the smoke, damaging their health for the rest of their lives. My wife, a farmers daughter, has respiratory problems and a myriad of allergies. This year we went south to avoid her annual suffering, she never had to take any of her medications, her breathing cleared up and so did the allergy symptoms. Neither of us would live anywhere else, but a vacation when the worst of the burning occurs will definitely be in order.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

My GF summed it all up best - "Up Country People". Where she comes from (South) all the farmers in the area each hire a local tractor each year and they plough everything back into the ground. She is not being 'superior' when she says all the farmers around here (including in Myanmar and Laos) are not eductaed and are backward - they are uneducated and ignorant - ANd there are more and more of them growing more and more crops every year. The only way to solve this problem is to educate and bring them forward - and even if this was does well and quickly it will take years. Like her I do not believe that will ever happen - so the solution to the problem (for us) is to move. Maybe if/when a lot of Farangs move away from Chiang Mai they will finally address the problem

Isn't the topography different in south -- much flatter and easier for tractors to plough the ground. I'm under the impression that much of the burning is done on hillsides that otherwise can't be tilled by equipment.

More likely it's just a different climate: there's no true dry season, so after one crop you just plow it again for the next crop that starts soon after. So when you're plowing anyway then why would you burn. Plus, the climate and topography is the main reason that the burning results in haze in the North. It's not like they burn any less in the North East or Central regions, but this doesn't cause a problem other than very locally when you're right next to it.

[Gonzo the Face]

How about a new program....... Mention the smoke/smog when its really bad ='s ok. But the constant bitching and moaning about the smog , every day is a problem for the rest of us filtering through the various posts . If the bitchers/moaners want to move away for a few months also ok. but new TV rule could be move away but bitchers and moaners cannot post on the CM forum them. Bitch about something else in that somewhere else, and give us a break.

[northernjohn]

My GF summed it all up best - "Up Country People". Where she comes from (South) all the farmers in the area each hire a local tractor each year and they plough everything back into the ground. She is not being 'superior' when she says all the farmers around here (including in Myanmar and Laos) are not eductaed and are backward - they are uneducated and ignorant - ANd there are more and more of them growing more and more crops every year. The only way to solve this problem is to educate and bring them forward - and even if this was does well and quickly it will take years. Like her I do not believe that will ever happen - so the solution to the problem (for us) is to move. Maybe if/when a lot of Farangs move away from Chiang Mai they will finally address the problem

You have a false self of importance maybe? Why would a lot of Farangs leaving be a cause for concern? I think that many Thais would consider it a cause for celebration, and with so many daft posts on here, yours included, I would tend to agree.

By the way, your girlfriend sums up what most Southern Thais think, namely that Northerners are thick. By their reckoning most Southeners would find it hard to believe that here in the North we have universities, doctors, teachers, scientists, architects and engineers.

You are quite right when you say that your wife is not being 'superior' when she says that all northern farmers are uneducated and ignorant. Quite clearly she is being bigoted.

The worst thing about people saying that they're going to leave is ...... they invariably don't. Let's hope that isn't true in your case. If you do actually decide to go, let us know if you need any help moving.

You seem to have a bit of self importance yourself. A large chunk of expats moving elsewhere would put a dent in the local economy. I doubt you'd make up for it on your own

Why are you defending this stupid burning with such passion?

Why are you defending your use of vehicles is not contributing to the problem?

If a large number of Farongs left I am quite sure it would hurt the bar industry. It would be nice if the farmers stopped burning their fields but they won't until they are shown hands on where they can do it another way and make more money. Also it would be nice if there was no forest fires it would be nice if we did not have a heat inversion shield holding much of it in. It would be nice if we didn't have so many vehicles on the road. It would be nice if we had a better system for fighting forest fires and the countries around us did to.

A lot of things would be nice and as long as the lack of them doesn't spoil my life and turn me into a Grouchy old Thai basher I will stay here and put up with the 4 to 6 weeks of smog. Besides some of it is in hot wheatear and the air con weeds it out.

[Saan]

_{A big factor over looked here is the damage the Ex Pats are doing to the air quality.}

_{All they want to do is blame the problem on the various types of fires.}

_{Not a word about the growing number of vehicles they have added to the situation.}

_{Or the number of songthaew's that have come on the scene to carry them around.}

_{Or that through them many Thais have been able to upgrade to autos.}

_{They come in here wanting to get the same standard of living they had where they lived neglecting}

_{the fact that they are in a different culture not yet up to there high standards.}

_{They are getting older and are more sensitive to the smog than in their younger years.}

_{so they carry on as if it was getting worse. One month almost every year and a part of another month}

_{are the bad times. If they can not take December and January they have no place here in Chuiang Mai.}

_{Move South.}

_{The statistics are there instead of denying them have a look at your own failing ability to with stand}

_{the smog.}

Good idea northernjohn - blame it on the farangs. If they didn't eat CP pork dumplings then there would be no need to grow all that corn to feed the pigs and the trash from the corn farms would not have to be burnt off. Problem solved get rid of the farangs.

You are visual proof that the Farongs want to take no part in the blame.

Thailand is a big country. If you don't like Chiang Mai try another locale.

Why inflict punishment on yourself? That is Thai logic.

Opinion 5,506. To bad he can't add Hello Dolly's tally to really show how opinionated he is.

[DaamNaam]

OP the problem with your idea is you are applying (quite rightly) something called logic.

And sadly until logic becomes part of the culture Thailand will never move foreward.

A full DNA rewiring is needed to reboot this lot. Don't hold your breath (unless its in the thick of the smog).

[FolkGuitar]

How about a new program....... Mention the smoke/smog when its really bad ='s ok. But the constant bitching and moaning about the smog , every day is a problem for the rest of us filtering through the various posts . If the bitchers/moaners want to move away for a few months also ok. but new TV rule could be move away but bitchers and moaners cannot post on the CM forum them. Bitch about something else in that somewhere else, and give us a break.

Wonderful idea!

I belong to another interest forum that has a dedicated sub-forum just for complaining. People can post as many complaints about any and all subjects as often as they wish, and all the other unhappy souls can keep the threads well fed with additional woes. There are a group of people who 'hang out' in this thread, happily posting absolutely nothing else but woes and moans. Complaint threads are ONLY allowed there, not on the general board. The rest of us never have to deal with them, nor even accidentally surf their chronic complaining.

Mods... How about it? Isn't there room in ThaiVisa for a place for these doom-sayers to congregate without inflicting themselves on the rest of us? I think it would certainly cut down on a lot negativity that gets generated here.

[Mapguy]

Perhaps there actually IS an up-side to the air quality. There are two problems relating to the air quality; the actually figures, and the way people deal with them.

On the plus side, it causes a lot of chronic complainers to leave Chiang Mai, making it far more comfortable for those of us who choose to stay.

Spending today complaining about yesterday isn't going to make tomorrow better. Facing tomorrow with a better attitude will.

And before you say it, no, it won't make the air cleaner. But neither will complaining about the problem. It does, however, solve one of the two problems.

Elegant phrasing!

[Chicog]

If a large number of Farongs left I am quite sure it would hurt the bar industry.

I'm sure it would hurt property rentals, shops, and other businesses including the whole of the hospitality industry.

This is an excellent summation of the situation:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/820084-risk-of-a-calamity-if-north-haze-not-tackled-urgently/

It cuts to the core issue, which is that it is a serious public health issue.

Why do you not care about that?

[Saan]

This should answer the naysayers or will they continue with with their inane responses 'it's OK because it's been like this for 20' or 'if you don't like it leave Chiang Mai'.

Risk of a calamity if North haze not tackled urgently
Dusit Thammaraks

CHIANG MAI: -- Considering the serious threat to the health of the people of the region, 'Burning season' must be stopped once and for all, and the govt must do whatever it takes

The rainy season will soon come to northern Thailand. The haze and smoke will go away. But the cancer-causing dust particles already inhaled by the population will not go away. They will remain embedded in our chest cavity.

If there is no action taken, our senseless "Burning Season" will continue.

When I moved here 40 years ago, Chiang Mai was naturally beautiful, with clean fresh air. I could not foresee then that it would become the congested and polluted city that it is today. That is already lamentable. Our burning season, however, is not just lamentable.

Northern Thailand currently has the highest rates of lung cancer in the Kingdom. The incidence of other chest diseases and cardiac conditions is also high. With each year of burning, more carcinogens accumulate in the lungs of those who live here.

Cancers can take years to develop. Often, they show no symptoms until it is too late.

Dr Sumitra Thongprasert, Emeritus Professor at Maharaj Nakorn Hospital and Medical College, Chiang Mai University, and senior Medical Oncologist at Bangkok Hospital, Chiang Mai, remarks: "Lung cancer is one of the most difficult cancers to treat. It is often diagnosed at a late stage. Early detection is not easy, and costs a lot of money."

The reality is grim. Unless treated early, 90 per cent of patients with lung cancer will die.

If allowed to continue, the burning will create a frightening situation. Premature death and suffering will come to thousands of residents.

So why do we burn? It was never like this a few decades ago.

In recent years, the growing demand for animal feed and ethanol has greatly expanded maize cultivation in northern Thailand. This led to contract farming. Today, one major company alone requires more than 5.5 million tonnes of corn a year. Contracted Thai farmers are currently using about 6 million rai (9,600 sq km), and yield about 4 million tonnes. Myanmar and Laos provide the rest.

After the harvest, much of the 6 million rai of dry corn stalks are set alight. To put it in perspective, this represents an area more than six times that of the Bangkok Metropolis (1,569sqkm).

The huge volume of toxic smoke released from such an expanse is not difficult to imagine. But burning is not necessary.

Returning crop residues to the soil can be done using modern machinery. With government help, an increase in contracted price per kilo, and by using local co-operatives, the cost of this can be covered.

But there are other reasons. This is because much of the land used for corn cultivation comes from illegal slash-and-burn forest encroachment. Steep hill slopes and embedded tree roots make use of machinery difficult or impossible. Manual methods are time-consuming and impractical. The second cause of burning concerns our national forests, so far spared from encroachment. During the hot season, deciduous trees such as dipterocarp shed their leaves. In Chiang Mai alone, dipterocarp forests occupy 4 million rai. The broad leaves carpet the ground and crumble into flakes.

When the rains arrive two or three months later, they decompose. This provides valuable soil nutrition, just as nature intended.

But the big leaves also hide valuable "hed thob" mushrooms. Villagers set fire to the leaves to uncover the fungus, and stimulate growth.

Huge areas of northern Thailand burn as a result. Entire hillsides turn black as far as the eye can see.

In search of this source of easy cash, no respect is shown for nature. Wildlife, insects, seedlings, saplings and rare plants perish. Poisonous smoke fills the air.

Repeated forest burning over decades depletes potassium, calcium, and phosphorus in the soil. It destroys biodiversity, and upsets the eco-system. It stunts natural growth and reproduction. Soil erosion and flash floods often result. This irresponsible burning has nothing to do with the controlled clearing of underbrush to prevent larger fires. Forestry officials may do this in hot arid areas where there is no rainy season. Not here.

Except for the minority who benefit and prosper from burning, this is a lose-lose situation for everybody else, and for Thailand. Hospitals are full of respiratory and cardiac patients. Planes cannot land. Tourism declines. The economy suffers. Residents endure weeks of discomfort. Given all of these facts, a five-year-old child could tell us that we are going against the balance of nature, as well as flying in the face of common sense.

Put simply, this is utter stupidity.

So, are we going to allow a minority of selfish or uneducated people to destroy the health and well-being of an innocent majority?

No responsible government, anywhere, would allow this.

And if we maintain the status quo, things will get worse.

We can prolong the futile quest for solutions and techniques to reduce the haze. We can continue spraying water in the air, and flying aircraft around hoping to make it rain. We can carry on conducting investigative seminars and meetings, and listening to wise words from scientists and researchers.

We can keep monitoring the pollution levels so we can declare how safe or unsafe it is to breathe our air. We can jabber on about involving cooperation with provincial governors, district officers, agricultural officers, forestry authorities, and village headmen. We can announce "no burning", with minor penalties for offenders who are never reported, far less caught and punished. We can appeal to neighbouring countries not to burn, yet continue to do it ourselves on a grand scale. Mass education and draconian law enforcement are the only ways out of this.

Creating awareness of the impending danger is the first essential. Few homes in Thailand do not have a television set. The government must broadcast and constantly repeat the hazards and consequences of burning on every Thai television channel. Graphic hospital and operating room footage should be included to drive the message home. A highly respected figure should conduct the programme. It should continue on prime time, including children's schedules, until the whole nation understands the deadly seriousness of the situation.

With this understanding and grass roots support established, a total ban on all burning should be announced and enforced, effective from January 1, 2016. Penalties for offenders must be severe.

In the remaining months of 2015, the alternatives to burning can be urgently discussed, and implemented. These may be problematic, but they are certainly not rocket science. Nobody will believe that a government, particularly a powerful military one, is unable to stop people burning thousands of square kilometres of their own country.

We have the death penalty for murder. But what do we have for mass murder? If nothing is done, the deadly burning will happen again next year, and in the years to follow, until the inevitable health crisis unfolds. By then, it will be too late.

It will involve a huge cost in human lives, and medical treatment.

The whole world will then ask: "Why did no government prevent this from happening?"

Source: http://www.nationmul...n-30258695.html

-- The Nation 2015-04-25

[Chiengmaijoe]

My GF summed it all up best - "Up Country People". Where she comes from (South) all the farmers in the area each hire a local tractor each year and they plough everything back into the ground. She is not being 'superior' when she says all the farmers around here (including in Myanmar and Laos) are not eductaed and are backward - they are uneducated and ignorant - ANd there are more and more of them growing more and more crops every year. The only way to solve this problem is to educate and bring them forward - and even if this was does well and quickly it will take years. Like her I do not believe that will ever happen - so the solution to the problem (for us) is to move. Maybe if/when a lot of Farangs move away from Chiang Mai they will finally address the problem

You have a false self of importance maybe? Why would a lot of Farangs leaving be a cause for concern? I think that many Thais would consider it a cause for celebration, and with so many daft posts on here, yours included, I would tend to agree.

By the way, your girlfriend sums up what most Southern Thais think, namely that Northerners are thick. By their reckoning most Southeners would find it hard to believe that here in the North we have universities, doctors, teachers, scientists, architects and engineers.

You are quite right when you say that your wife is not being 'superior' when she says that all northern farmers are uneducated and ignorant. Quite clearly she is being bigoted.

The worst thing about people saying that they're going to leave is ...... they invariably don't. Let's hope that isn't true in your case. If you do actually decide to go, let us know if you need any help moving.

You seem to have a bit of self importance yourself. A large chunk of expats moving elsewhere would put a dent in the local economy. I doubt you'd make up for it on your own

Why are you defending this stupid burning with such passion?

Where did I defend the burning? I was having a go at a farang and his bigoted girlfriend from the south who hold the common view that us Northerners are stupid. I once had a conversation with an intelligent Bangkok businessman who didn't think that anyone in the North or North East deserved the right to vote. We could do with less people like that up here, don't you think? The offer to help them with their move still stands.

[northernjohn]

If a large number of Farongs left I am quite sure it would hurt the bar industry.

I'm sure it would hurt property rentals, shops, and other businesses including the whole of the hospitality industry.

This is an excellent summation of the situation:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/820084-risk-of-a-calamity-if-north-haze-not-tackled-urgently/

It cuts to the core issue, which is that it is a serious public health issue.

Why do you not care about that?

There is not enough of Thai bashers here to hurt any thing but the bar industry. Look around there is already more housing and restaurants here than the population can sustain. If it is such a serious health issue why are people here? You might want to investigate healthier climates there are lots of them and lots that make are's look good. Perhaps whining and sniveling on Thai Visa will help you I doubt it just makes you feel good to condemn a culture that has been going for hundreds of years. I have been coming to Chiang Mai for 10 years I was here during the bad season in 2007 I lived through that with no health problems. I have been here permanently for 4 or 5 years still no health problems.

If it is bad as you say why did you and your fellow complainers come here. Did you all wake up one morning and say I think I will move to a location that is no good for my health? Did you all goo ogle

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/820084-risk-of-a-calamity-if-north-haze-not-tackled-urgently/

And say ha that is the place for me?

The big question I have is why do you not admit that Farongs with their vehicles also contribute to the smog only unlike the farmers you do it year round.

[northernjohn]

OP the problem with your idea is you are applying (quite rightly) something called logic.

And sadly until logic becomes part of the culture Thailand will never move foreward.

A full DNA rewiring is needed to reboot this lot. Don't hold your breath (unless its in the thick of the smog).

I don't think a reboot of that lot will help. they joined Thai Visa to complain the reboot brought them here already.

[Chicog]

My GF summed it all up best - "Up Country People". Where she comes from (South) all the farmers in the area each hire a local tractor each year and they plough everything back into the ground. She is not being 'superior' when she says all the farmers around here (including in Myanmar and Laos) are not eductaed and are backward - they are uneducated and ignorant - ANd there are more and more of them growing more and more crops every year. The only way to solve this problem is to educate and bring them forward - and even if this was does well and quickly it will take years. Like her I do not believe that will ever happen - so the solution to the problem (for us) is to move. Maybe if/when a lot of Farangs move away from Chiang Mai they will finally address the problem

You have a false self of importance maybe? Why would a lot of Farangs leaving be a cause for concern? I think that many Thais would consider it a cause for celebration, and with so many daft posts on here, yours included, I would tend to agree.

By the way, your girlfriend sums up what most Southern Thais think, namely that Northerners are thick. By their reckoning most Southeners would find it hard to believe that here in the North we have universities, doctors, teachers, scientists, architects and engineers.

You are quite right when you say that your wife is not being 'superior' when she says that all northern farmers are uneducated and ignorant. Quite clearly she is being bigoted.

The worst thing about people saying that they're going to leave is ...... they invariably don't. Let's hope that isn't true in your case. If you do actually decide to go, let us know if you need any help moving.

You seem to have a bit of self importance yourself. A large chunk of expats moving elsewhere would put a dent in the local economy. I doubt you'd make up for it on your own

Why are you defending this stupid burning with such passion?

Where did I defend the burning? I was having a go at a farang and his bigoted girlfriend from the south who hold the common view that us Northerners are stupid. I once had a conversation with an intelligent Bangkok businessman who didn't think that anyone in the North or North East deserved the right to vote. We could do with less people like that up here, don't you think? The offer to help them with their move still stands.

I was addressing your point below; I didn't comment on the rest because I don't think it's relevant to the discussion (and yes, it is pretty stupid):

"Why would a lot of Farangs leaving be a cause for concern? I think that many Thais would consider it a cause for celebration"

Edited April 25, 2015 by Chicog

[Chicog]

If a large number of Farongs left I am quite sure it would hurt the bar industry.

I'm sure it would hurt property rentals, shops, and other businesses including the whole of the hospitality industry.

This is an excellent summation of the situation:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/820084-risk-of-a-calamity-if-north-haze-not-tackled-urgently/

It cuts to the core issue, which is that it is a serious public health issue.

Why do you not care about that?

There is not enough of Thai bashers here to hurt any thing but the bar industry. Look around there is already more housing and restaurants here than the population can sustain. If it is such a serious health issue why are people here? You might want to investigate healthier climates there are lots of them and lots that make are's look good. Perhaps whining and sniveling on Thai Visa will help you I doubt it just makes you feel good to condemn a culture that has been going for hundreds of years. I have been coming to Chiang Mai for 10 years I was here during the bad season in 2007 I lived through that with no health problems. I have been here permanently for 4 or 5 years still no health problems.

If it is bad as you say why did you and your fellow complainers come here. Did you all wake up one morning and say I think I will move to a location that is no good for my health? Did you all goo ogle

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/820084-risk-of-a-calamity-if-north-haze-not-tackled-urgently/

And say ha that is the place for me?

The big question I have is why do you not admit that Farongs with their vehicles also contribute to the smog only unlike the farmers you do it year round.

(1) It is, whether you like it or not, a serious public health issue, and it needs to be addressed. I wonder if you'd be so defensive if you or your nearest and dearest were diagnosed with lung cancer? Or would you blame it on something else, viz:

(2) Vehicle emissions are a drop in the ocean compared to the burning, but yes, there are many things they could do to improve that situation also. Having said that, foreigners do not tend to drive knacked old songtaews and pickups that spew out unfiltered toxins.

(3) it's farang not "farong".

I realise that you are of the opinion that if you are OK then it should be fine for everyone else. Well newsflash, I don't even live in Thailand, but I do like Chiang Mai and I think its residents deserve better even if you don't.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Chicog

[FolkGuitar]

This should answer the naysayers or will they continue with with their inane responses 'it's OK because it's been like this for 20' or 'if you don't like it leave Chiang Mai'.

[magazine article snipped because we are all aware of the facts.]

Hi!

Would you please point us to a post that says that burning is OK? I can't find one myself.

I can find posts that say it's gone on for many years. I can find posts that say it's really only bad for a few weeks. I can even find posts that say 'we don't mind the smoke.' But I can't find one that says it's OK.

I will, however, agree with the folks that say ' if you don't like it, why did you come in the first place?' Have you decided that the missionaries of old who ravaged native cultures right and left, raping the beliefs, savaging the dress, and wiping out all traces of indigenous systems was actually a good thing, and you want to try your hand at it in Thailand? Please leave Thailand to the Thais. It's their country to do with as they choose.

Your article manages to sneak in the phrase "an increase in contracted price per kilo" with hopes no one will notice. Have you given thought to the ramifications of what an increase in contracted price per kilo will mean? When a butterfly flaps its wings in the Eastern Pacific, the result is a hurricane half-way around the world...

[FolkGuitar]

........ Well newsflash, I don't even live in Thailand, but I do like Chiang Mai and I think its residents deserve better even if you don't.

Sheesh! So now we have people who aren't Thai, don't even live here, and aren't even here now, complaining about here.... telling those of us who ARE here how things should be.

Mods, PLEASE! Create a separate sub-forum and get these agitators out of here! Give them their own space to post that doesn't interfere with those of us who are content living in Chiang Mai.

[northernjohn]

I'm sure it would hurt property rentals, shops, and other businesses including the whole of the hospitality industry.

This is an excellent summation of the situation:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/820084-risk-of-a-calamity-if-north-haze-not-tackled-urgently/

It cuts to the core issue, which is that it is a serious public health issue.

Why do you not care about that?

There is not enough of Thai bashers here to hurt any thing but the bar industry. Look around there is already more housing and restaurants here than the population can sustain. If it is such a serious health issue why are people here? You might want to investigate healthier climates there are lots of them and lots that make are's look good. Perhaps whining and sniveling on Thai Visa will help you I doubt it just makes you feel good to condemn a culture that has been going for hundreds of years. I have been coming to Chiang Mai for 10 years I was here during the bad season in 2007 I lived through that with no health problems. I have been here permanently for 4 or 5 years still no health problems.

If it is bad as you say why did you and your fellow complainers come here. Did you all wake up one morning and say I think I will move to a location that is no good for my health? Did you all goo ogle

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/820084-risk-of-a-calamity-if-north-haze-not-tackled-urgently/

And say ha that is the place for me?

The big question I have is why do you not admit that Farongs with their vehicles also contribute to the smog only unlike the farmers you do it year round.

(1) It is, whether you like it or not, a serious public health issue, and it needs to be addressed. I wonder if you'd be so defensive if you or your nearest and dearest were diagnosed with lung cancer? Or would you blame it on something else, viz:

(2) Vehicle emissions are a drop in the ocean compared to the burning, but yes, there are many things they could do to improve that situation also. Having said that, foreigners do not tend to drive knacked old songtaews and pickups that spew out unfiltered toxins.

(3) it's farang not "farong".

I realise that you are of the opinion that if you are OK then it should be fine for everyone else. Well newsflash, I don't even live in Thailand, but I do like Chiang Mai and I think its residents deserve better even if you don't.

So you are reduced to making up theoretical scenes.

Here is a reality for you.

My boy drowned in a river. I am not on a crusade to put down rivers. We all die. How is none of my business unless I am responsible for any part of it.

I would suggest you warn all your relations not to live in Chiang Mai. I will tell mine that for me it is a great place to live and has about a 6 week give or take period of smog. Some days are better than others and some days are worse than others.

I also note you have to attack my spelling. Boy that sure proves your point.

I bet in August you would complain about the disel smoke from songthaew's. Omitting the farong driven personal vehicles.

Edited April 25, 2015 by northernjohn

[Chicog]

........ Well newsflash, I don't even live in Thailand, but I do like Chiang Mai and I think its residents deserve better even if you don't.

Sheesh! So now we have people who aren't Thai, don't even live here, and aren't even here now, complaining about here.... telling those of us who ARE here how things should be.

Mods, PLEASE! Create a separate sub-forum and get these agitators out of here! Give them their own space to post that doesn't interfere with those of us who are content living in Chiang Mai.

Excuse me? I've been visiting Chiang Mai several times a year for more than two decades and I would like to retire there.

I'm entitled to comment whether you like it or not.

So maybe you and your chums should ask for a private "We love Chiang Mai and nothing is wrong with it forum", or better still set up your own.

In the mean time, deal with it.

[Chicog]

So you are reduced to making up theoretical scenes.

Here is a reality for you.

My boy drowned in a river. I am not on a crusade to put down rivers. We all die. How is none of my business unless I am responsible for any part of it.

I'm sorry you lost your child, but what on earth that has to do with the topic is beyond me.

You are of course entitled to tell anyone whatever you like.

Just don't expect them to agree with it (or in this case, understand it).

As for the correction, you might at least portray yourself as being somewhat less "I'm alright Jack" if you at least knew some of the basics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farang

Edited April 25, 2015 by Chicog

[jonwilly]

Am I the Only person who knows Folk, Elderly Frang and CM raised Thais age 30-40 who are of the opinion that the smog was not always as Bad as we experience in our time ?

Burning is not a recent idea and farmers/locals both Thai and in surrounding countries have always done it, even though it's now banned in the West according to one poster.

The Smog is not good for anyone. I suffer and normally go to the seaside.

Speak to Thai friends who have lived here for years 20-25 + and ask for their views.

I am due to have lunch in a weeks time with two well educated Thais, both with university degrees and will ask them how matters where in years gone bye when they where young.

There was a Spike in PM 10 about 25 years ago, as one post showed.

Why ?

john

[FolkGuitar]

Excuse me? I've been visiting Chiang Mai several times a year for more than two decades and I would like to retire there.

I'm entitled to comment whether you like it or not.

No need to apologize. Hmmm..... all these complaints, yet you keep coming back and want to retire here?

That makes no sense... unless the problem isn't as severe as you want us to believe. After all, who in their right mind voluntarily comes to a place where they are, as you tell us, going to get lung cancer, allergic dermatitis, emphysema, ocular degeneration, and have all your skin fall off?

But look at what I wrote. It might surprise you to note that I did NOT suggest that you couldn't or even shouldn't comment.

In fact, I was proposing that you have your own dedicated sub-forum just for that purpose.

Imagine... your very own sub-forum where you can wallow endlessly in your misery without the rest of us laughing at you, or even suggesting that you 'may' be crying that the sky is falling.

I would NEVER suggest that you weren't entitled to post. Only that the never-ending whinging and the perpetual whining should have its own dedicated space where the rest of us might be spared from the overflow that the 2-3 people who post the same might gather to commiserate with each other.

Now THAT would be a breath of fresh air...

Edited April 26, 2015 by FolkGuitar