Turn The Tourists Away

[BB24]

My GF summed it all up best - "Up Country People". Where she comes from (South) all the farmers in the area each hire a local tractor each year and they plough everything back into the ground. She is not being 'superior' when she says all the farmers around here (including in Myanmar and Laos) are not eductaed and are backward - they are uneducated and ignorant - ANd there are more and more of them growing more and more crops every year. The only way to solve this problem is to educate and bring them forward - and even if this was does well and quickly it will take years. Like her I do not believe that will ever happen - so the solution to the problem (for us) is to move. Maybe if/when a lot of Farangs move away from Chiang Mai they will finally address the problem

You have a false self of importance maybe? Why would a lot of Farangs leaving be a cause for concern? I think that many Thais would consider it a cause for celebration, and with so many daft posts on here, yours included, I would tend to agree.

By the way, your girlfriend sums up what most Southern Thais think, namely that Northerners are thick. By their reckoning most Southeners would find it hard to believe that here in the North we have universities, doctors, teachers, scientists, architects and engineers.

You are quite right when you say that your wife is not being 'superior' when she says that all northern farmers are uneducated and ignorant. Quite clearly she is being bigoted.

The worst thing about people saying that they're going to leave is ...... they invariably don't. Let's hope that isn't true in your case. If you do actually decide to go, let us know if you need any help moving.

Maybe you missed the 'laughing smiley' indicating the sarcasm - farangs leaving will make 'them' do nothing (they couldnt care less).

Or maybe you are just slow and didn't get the humour I intended by making the statement - clearly then you fit right in with the farmers around here (that was sarcasm too).

Maybe also you are not aware that most of the attendees at the Unis are not from here - nor are many of the doctors, scientists, teachers (Uni) etc.

Definitely you are ignorant to insult my GF like that - and maybe you are narcisissistic and frequently need to insult others (who knows, or cares).

And most definitely I will not take you up on the offer to help us move - although I would not bet against you driving an unecessaryly large ute

[Chiengmaijoe]

My GF summed it all up best - "Up Country People". Where she comes from (South) all the farmers in the area each hire a local tractor each year and they plough everything back into the ground. She is not being 'superior' when she says all the farmers around here (including in Myanmar and Laos) are not eductaed and are backward - they are uneducated and ignorant - ANd there are more and more of them growing more and more crops every year. The only way to solve this problem is to educate and bring them forward - and even if this was does well and quickly it will take years. Like her I do not believe that will ever happen - so the solution to the problem (for us) is to move. Maybe if/when a lot of Farangs move away from Chiang Mai they will finally address the problem

You have a false self of importance maybe? Why would a lot of Farangs leaving be a cause for concern? I think that many Thais would consider it a cause for celebration, and with so many daft posts on here, yours included, I would tend to agree.

By the way, your girlfriend sums up what most Southern Thais think, namely that Northerners are thick. By their reckoning most Southeners would find it hard to believe that here in the North we have universities, doctors, teachers, scientists, architects and engineers.

You are quite right when you say that your wife is not being 'superior' when she says that all northern farmers are uneducated and ignorant. Quite clearly she is being bigoted.

The worst thing about people saying that they're going to leave is ...... they invariably don't. Let's hope that isn't true in your case. If you do actually decide to go, let us know if you need any help moving.

Maybe you missed the 'laughing smiley' indicating the sarcasm - farangs leaving will make 'them' do nothing (they couldnt care less).

Or maybe you are just slow and didn't get the humour I intended by making the statement - clearly then you fit right in with the farmers around here (that was sarcasm too).

Maybe also you are not aware that most of the attendees at the Unis are not from here - nor are many of the doctors, scientists, teachers (Uni) etc.

Definitely you are ignorant to insult my GF like that - and maybe you are narcisissistic and frequently need to insult others (who knows, or cares).

And most definitely I will not take you up on the offer to help us move - although I would not bet against you driving an unecessaryly large ute

If you do indeed have a sense of humour you hide it well. And if you could express yourself without childish smileys I might take you seriously.

You said that your girlfriend thinks Northern farmers are all uneducated and ignorant so I don't need to insult her, she's managing fine without me. I merely pointed out the glaringly obvious, in that she is bigoted.

So , most students at the university are not from Chiang Mai and neither are most of the doctors, scientists, etc. Is that another dig at the stupidity of Northerners or yet another example of your trademark sarcasm? Either way, it's a stupid comment.

To further underline your stupidity I will say that you would be losing the bet if you are assuming (on what basis I don't know) that I drive a ute, whatever that might be. I've heard Australians using that term and my guess was that it was a 'baby word' for pickup truck. For your information, I drive a vehicle that suits the needs of my business. No more, no less, and no ute. If you were planning on having a cabaret act based on your ability to identify what car a person drives judging by their posts on forums, (ably assisted by your lovely girlfriend?)..... think again.

Excuse me for not signing off with a smiley. Hopefully you can figure out my meaning without one. Let me know if you can't. Also, let us know when you've both left.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Chiengmaijoe

[Chicog]

Agreed - and perhaps the revenue they lose from people vacating Chiang Mai, or tourists reading about it and deciding not to go, would cover the cost if they did something about it.

Just sayin' like.

"They?" So you believe that the Myanmar government and the Lao government are sitting there saying 'Poor, poor Chiang Mai. We need to do something to help the tourism in that area.'

The burning isn't just in northern Thailand...

So lead by example. You seem incapable of any forward thinking.

I have been. While I can't affect how the Thai, Burmese, or Lao governments will deal with the problem, I was able to give several N95 masks to each of my Thai friends and teach them about the difference between them and the ordinary surgical masks. This won't eradicate the air pollution itself, but will help a few people stay healthier for the few weeks it's at its peak.

How about yourself? Other than complaining loudly, did you actually take some positive action? Or are you too busy forward thinking...

Have you, perhaps, figured out who is going to pay the bill?

I already said it's a public health issue, so the costs should come from public coffers. Much of it will be recouped from lower health care costs and increased tourist revenue, etc.

[junglechef]

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FG said

"I'm really not sure why we get the whiners every year who feel they need to run off somewhere. Granted, blue skies and clean air are nicer, but we get that from May to March. If there are a couple of weeks when the skies are blocked by some smoke, no big deal. And if the numbers continue to decrease each year AS THEY HAVE BEEN, soon we won't even need to bother with masks at all!"

First I would like to see REAL proof that the numbers have decreased each year.

Secondly perhaps you don't have children or family members who get ill from the smoke but I have both as well as I really get negatively affected by the air quality. If you consider caring about the health of myself and my family whining then many of the opinions you are giving might be better understood now that I know where your attitude is stemming from.

"A couple of weeks that the sky is blocked from SOME smoke", another totally unfounded and incorrect fact. If that was true I'd agree that it was no big deal too.

And your going on and on about where the funds would come from to solve the problem is simplistic. There would also have to be enforcement say that once the hill tribes are paid not to burn that they wouldn't just go out and continue lighting fire anyways as it's so hard to catch them. Posting so many times the same point is worse then "whining" in my book.

[ramrod711]

Where did you ever get the idea that I was laid back? Or is that just how you imagine me? I'm flattered

OK, I stand corrected, you are not laid back. From now on I will imagine you as something less than that. By the way can you point out where I disagreed with, or contradicted anything you had to say? In my humble opinion your purchasing some of your friends masks makes you a candidate for humanitarian of the year, and SO much better than the rest of us. Thank you so much.

[FolkGuitar]

First I would like to see REAL proof that the numbers have decreased each year.

Do you have any REAL proof that the numbers given by the government are not valid? What constitutes REAL proof to you? John Civilian with his own meter he bought off the internet, calibrated or otherwise?

Secondly perhaps you don't have children or family members who get ill from the smoke but I have both as well as I really get negatively affected by the air quality. If you consider caring about the health of myself and my family whining then many of the opinions you are giving might be better understood now that I know where your attitude is stemming from.

Personally, when "I" care about something, I take whatever action is necessary to remedy the problem. I don't stomp my feet and throw a temper tantrum in a discussion group populated by people who will have absolutely NO control over the ability to rectify said problem.

In this particular case, we've identified the problem as air pollution. The Thai government isn't going to listen to me when I ask them to clear it up, so instead, I take the one of the two available options; I provide my family with N95 masks for the few weeks that we feel we need them. I imagine you bought good masks for your family as well. The only difference between us that now that we have done everything in our power to mitigate the problem, you are still complaining, knowing full well that it isn't going to solve anything.

"A couple of weeks that the sky is blocked from SOME smoke", another totally unfounded and incorrect fact. If that was true I'd agree that it was no big deal too.

Perhaps you really meant to say that 'in your opinion, it's totally unfounded and incorrect.' In "MY" opinion it's correct. Unless you wish to deny me my opinion? Is that what you're saying?

And your going on and on about where the funds would come from to solve the problem is simplistic. There would also have to be enforcement say that once the hill tribes are paid not to burn that they wouldn't just go out and continue lighting fire anyways as it's so hard to catch them. Posting so many times the same point is worse then "whining" in my book.

That's all part of paying the bills. And you and I both know that the Thai government isn't going to do that, to say nothing of the Burmese or Lao governments.

So do you think the correct course of action for farang is to continue to stomp their feet and throw temper tantrums?

Just what IS your 'realistic' solution. Please don't just say 'stop the burning.' That really would be simplistic...

[hml367]

Talk about foot stomping!

[FolkGuitar]

Where did you ever get the idea that I was laid back? Or is that just how you imagine me? I'm flattered

OK, I stand corrected, you are not laid back. From now on I will imagine you as something less than that. By the way can you point out where I disagreed with, or contradicted anything you had to say?

No, I can't. Why do you ask? Do you wish me to look back through all your posts and try to find something?

In my humble opinion your purchasing some of your friends masks makes you a candidate for humanitarian of the year, and SO much better than the rest of us. Thank you so much.

Thank you, that's very kind of you to say. But I wasn't doing it for awards (and only mentioned it in response to Chicog's suggestion,) but because it was the one thing that I could do, in dealing with the few weeks of air pollution. I don't have enough money to pay to stop the burning, so I looked for the next best solution... helping my family and friends.

How about you? Did you DO anything positive for the people you 'say' you are concerned about? NOTE: I'm not asking 'what' you did. Just 'if' you did.

[junglechef]

FG

If I am not making statements I do not feel inclined to prove anything, you said the numbers were decreasing and now say that is backed by Gov stats. As I said real numbers or just you saying someone else said so.

You are saying that by doing exactly what you are now recommending that I am whining, where have I actually used words to whined? I took the action that I found necessary, you said
"I'm really not sure why we get the whiners every year who feel they need to run off somewhere" which implies to me that by leaving the poisonous environment you are saying I am whining.

An opinion and a fact are different, if I said that there are 100 million ppl dying in CM every year from the smoke this is not an opinion, it is an incorrect fact. Just because one states something it doesn't make it an opinion. It is not true that the sun was blocked for only two weeks even if you say so. Sounds like you are in a hole on this thread and saying absolutely anything at this point which is only making it deeper.

To answer your question as I have already said to solve the immediate problem that is a threat to my families health, esp. my toddlers, we leave for 6 weeks every year. (got back yesterday). As for an answer to Thailand's problem with this issue I haven't and won't give one as I am not an expert in this field and if I had a few suggestions (which I do) I'm sure you would say I don't have the right to suggest them without being willing and able to pay for them.

Do you really think it is the responsibility of the TV members to solve this problem, and perhaps fund the solution? This is a forum to discuss issues that interest us, effect us and are part of our lives We live here and have the right to express ourselves in these matters on the appropriate channels such as TV. Are these posts doing harm? Making the smoke worse? No at least they are helping us educate ourselves. If it's too much whining for your tastes don't read them, only open topics that you think you'll enjoy or just quit TV. But please stop your whining !

[FolkGuitar]

I based my comments on numbers reported on government sites. I have seen no evidence that these numbers are not valid. Have you? You are the one who requested proof, remember?

To answer your question as I have already said to solve the immediate problem that is a threat to my families health, esp. my toddlers, we leave for 6 weeks every year.

That is one of the three options we have. I chose masks for my family and friends. That was the second option. Those are the only positive options available to us as visitors to this country.

As for an answer to Thailand's problem with this issue I haven't and won't give one as I am not an expert in this field and if I had a few suggestions (which I do) I'm sure you would say I don't have the right to suggest them without being willing and able to pay for them.

Why would you say such a thing? I've never suggested that people can't post their suggestions! If you say that I have, I'll call you a damn liar. Same with posting complaints. I've never suggested that people NOT complain. I've even gone so far as to request an entire forum dedicated to these weather complaints. I'd hardly call that censorship or trying to stop you from making your complaints. I realize that flies in the face of your argument, but that's the facts, Jack. Sorry.

Do you really think it is the responsibility of the TV members to solve this problem, and perhaps fund the solution?

Responsibility? Absolutely not! I do think that it's ridiculous to repeatedly complain about the pollution, knowing full well there is nothing you (that's the generic 'you,' not you personally) can do about it.

We live here and have the right to express ourselves in these matters on the appropriate channels such as TV.

Absolutely! I'm in full agreement with you. As I said, I've requested that the Mods create a dedicated sub-forum for it.

[cdnvic]

Settle down everyone. Enough of taking shots at each other.

[BB24]

My GF summed it all up best - "Up Country People". Where she comes from (South) all the farmers in the area each hire a local tractor each year and they plough everything back into the ground. She is not being 'superior' when she says all the farmers around here (including in Myanmar and Laos) are not eductaed and are backward - they are uneducated and ignorant - ANd there are more and more of them growing more and more crops every year. The only way to solve this problem is to educate and bring them forward - and even if this was does well and quickly it will take years. Like her I do not believe that will ever happen - so the solution to the problem (for us) is to move. Maybe if/when a lot of Farangs move away from Chiang Mai they will finally address the problem

You have a false self of importance maybe? Why would a lot of Farangs leaving be a cause for concern? I think that many Thais would consider it a cause for celebration, and with so many daft posts on here, yours included, I would tend to agree.

By the way, your girlfriend sums up what most Southern Thais think, namely that Northerners are thick. By their reckoning most Southeners would find it hard to believe that here in the North we have universities, doctors, teachers, scientists, architects and engineers.

You are quite right when you say that your wife is not being 'superior' when she says that all northern farmers are uneducated and ignorant. Quite clearly she is being bigoted.

The worst thing about people saying that they're going to leave is ...... they invariably don't. Let's hope that isn't true in your case. If you do actually decide to go, let us know if you need any help moving.

Maybe you missed the 'laughing smiley' indicating the sarcasm - farangs leaving will make 'them' do nothing (they couldnt care less).

Or maybe you are just slow and didn't get the humour I intended by making the statement - clearly then you fit right in with the farmers around here (that was sarcasm too).

Maybe also you are not aware that most of the attendees at the Unis are not from here - nor are many of the doctors, scientists, teachers (Uni) etc.

Definitely you are ignorant to insult my GF like that - and maybe you are narcisissistic and frequently need to insult others (who knows, or cares).

And most definitely I will not take you up on the offer to help us move - although I would not bet against you driving an unecessaryly large ute

If you do indeed have a sense of humour you hide it well. And if you could express yourself without childish smileys I might take you seriously.

You said that your girlfriend thinks Northern farmers are all uneducated and ignorant so I don't need to insult her, she's managing fine without me. I merely pointed out the glaringly obvious, in that she is bigoted.

So , most students at the university are not from Chiang Mai and neither are most of the doctors, scientists, etc. Is that another dig at the stupidity of Northerners or yet another example of your trademark sarcasm? Either way, it's a stupid comment.

To further underline your stupidity I will say that you would be losing the bet if you are assuming (on what basis I don't know) that I drive a ute, whatever that might be. I've heard Australians using that term and my guess was that it was a 'baby word' for pickup truck. For your information, I drive a vehicle that suits the needs of my business. No more, no less, and no ute. If you were planning on having a cabaret act based on your ability to identify what car a person drives judging by their posts on forums, (ably assisted by your lovely girlfriend?)..... think again.

Excuse me for not signing off with a smiley. Hopefully you can figure out my meaning without one. Let me know if you can't. Also, let us know when you've both left.

Where do I begin - probably better not to. There is an old saying 'dont wrestle with pigs'. What it means is that if you wrestle a pig, all that will happen is you get sh** all over yourwself, the pig loves it, and you cant win because it is a dumb ignorant animal. I will sign off by saying:

[Chicog]

As I said, I've requested that the Mods create a dedicated sub-forum for it.

What is your obsession with a separate subforum?

If you don't like this topic, no-one is making you read it.

I see no reason at all for any such changes.

If there are topics here in which I'm not interested (and there are), I simply don't open them.

Hardly rocket science.

[FolkGuitar]

As I said, I've requested that the Mods create a dedicated sub-forum for it.

What is your obsession with a separate subforum?

If you don't like this topic, no-one is making you read it.

I see no reason at all for any such changes.

If there are topics here in which I'm not interested (and there are), I simply don't open them.

Hardly rocket science.

If you are really asking for an answer to your question, and not just trying to start another war, I'll tell you. But I won't debate the issue.

The OP suggested turning the tourists away as a method to force the government into action about the air pollution.

His post wasn't so much a complaint but his suggestion for rectifying the problem. It's always a good discussion topic when people are making positive suggestions, rather than just complaining, and so I was more than happy to read the post and participate in the debate.

While many of us disagreed with his suggestion or methods, and gave our reasons for it, it remained a thread with a positive value, and a good reason for people (including myself) be reading it.

Once it turned into nothing more than a venue to complain about the weather with no 'valid' positive suggestions being made, it no longer had positive value. It was at that point I realized that there are a group of people who spend more time just making complaints without any positive suggestions for rectifying the issues. I thought it a good idea to give them their own sub-forum just for that purpose, rather than derailing a thread that had potential to generate some positive ideas.

As proof of this, I direct your attention to the thread "What A Beautiful Morning." It was begun as a celebration of the delightful weather that we experience now, and managed to get through almost nine (9) posts before some chronic complainer posted a long-winded complaint about air pollution! This, in a thread clearly devoted to the beautiful weather! For what reason would someone deliberately rain on our parade? Upset that we are enjoying ourselves?

So again I say, there is nothing wrong with complaining, and no one will stop you from doing it, but why not do it on your own turf and leave us contented people alone. I'd like to see the Mods create that turf just for the unhappy folks to commiserate with each other.

Edited April 29, 2015 by FolkGuitar

[onthedarkside]

The last 7 posts removed as off topic and adding no value to the topic on discussion. I could go back further and delete more off topic posts. There is no need for bickering between members. Further such posts will be removed without further notice.