Business Hassles

[mark lamai]

I have a small bar in Lamai.

same type of bar next door is owned and run by Thais.

you know the cheek to jowel 4 metre wide shophouse style.

just been in here for 2 months.

the gentle folks next door often play music very loudly through a very bad system,

so its not just loud, it sounds awful.

it drives me nuts and means it is very difficult to talk to my customers when sitting outside,

and I can't hear my own music.

last night I asked my cashier (a Thai woman) what to do.

Can I talk to them?

No!

What can I do?

Nothing!

After more questions the reason finally became clear.

They are Thai and can do what they want, I am Farang and cannot complain or say anything.

I tried a music war for 10 minutes and drowned out their music with mine,

a not terribly subtle hint which achieved nothing.

On leaving, my cashier said "be careful, because you stay alone in the bar"

A warning that they might get really nasty.

From my beginning here I have bent over backwards to be nice and helpful.

Giving them free drinks, free use of motorbike, free internet access, helping with cocktails making ,

free prints of photos I take, etc.

other rudeness includes:

moving their chairs onto my part of the apron sitting there and resticting my customers' access.

A while ago I got very sick of this, i asked their cashier if I could talk to her, that's all,

she shouted "No" and ignored me, so I explained to the ladies and men there that I don't want them to sit in my bar area, the cashier's response was to shout "you don't use my water", (a hose on their tap used to clean the apron ), as if I care.

the shop on the other side are their friends, and I have a daily stream of people walking through my bar.

Unannounced and without an hello, they and any friends sit in my chairs and watch my TV.

Money was stolen from the bar , someone from there would have the knowledge and opportunity.

I had one lady (apart from the cashier) working in the bar and they persuaded her to leave my bar and work in theirs, she was not beautiful, and they have more than enough ladies for the small number of customers.

this apparently is very bad behaviour and I have been warned not to do such a thing myself.

Now my feelings are that they can go and f... themselves.

there must be a very deep-seated dislike/hatred of farangs in these people.

They obviously want my business to fail.

What I find is that here on Samui at least, most of the Thai people I meet are very greedy and resentful of the farangs, but forget conveniently that the only reason they have a business or ,like many, have become quite rich, is because of the farangs.

Any insights into Thai mindset would be appreciated.

Bear in mind that these people are uneducated and from a low class part of the social structure.

I guess what really p's me off is that we would not do that to them in my country.

Conclusions:

1. Thai friendliness is a hypocritical lie perpetrated on farangs to take their money.

2. Uneducated Thai people are really quite stupid and unable to think.

3. There are some nice Thai people but are far outnumbered by the stupid greedy ones.

Please do not dismiss this as "another anti-Thai diatribe"

Examine it and see if there is any TRUTH.

[Upcountry]

I feel for you man.

I think your best option is to look for a better location. Maybe you can find a nicer, bigger space!

I too have had to put up with the mindless attitude of low class Thai's who don't like or respect farangs. Depending on where you live in Thailand, you will find more or less of these. I think what you are expriencing is mostly the result of Samui being a magnetic tourist spot. Farang and tourists are taken for granted and probably consided a necessary evil that is not going away.

[Donz]

Well we only know your side of the story.

Also you comming out saying Thai people are not friendly and most of them are stupid, you say we would not do that in our country? well it does happend time to time.

You say most thai people are just greedy and jealous of the farangs?

Maybe its your attitude that brought this on yourself.

I do think this is just a Thai bashing thread.

[OldAsiaHand]

Conclusions:

1. Thai friendliness is a hypocritical lie perpetrated on farangs to take their money.

2. Uneducated Thai people are really quite stupid and unable to think.

3. There are some nice Thai people but are far outnumbered by the stupid greedy ones.

Please do not dismiss this as "another anti-Thai diatribe"

Examine it and see if there is any TRUTH.

No chance at all.

TV is the Farang Rak Thai board. Most posters here fly into an uncontrolable frenzy at the slightest suggestion that Thais aren't the greatest people on earth.

You have said a number of things here that are unquestionably true. For that, you will never be forgiven.

[cclub75]

They obviously want my business to fail.

At school, my teacher told me that this was "competition".

More seriously, I don't think you need more information regarding the thai mind : you said everything yourself !

-yes they want your business to fail, because you are an obvious competitor

-yes they really think that they are in their "rights" (it means logically that you are wrong)

-they'll never change, even if you play sweet

-they know that they have great advantages over your : they are thai, you are not

May be you could do a trick : give the day to day management to... a thai.

With one mission : continue to piss off the other bar (put an awfull music, very loud etc.).

You won't make any money, but at least, you will continue to piss them off. Small satisfaction.

I'm not sure that you can say that thais are "resentful".

It's just business. In the business, a thai will do exactly the same to another thai !

[petecooper]

Low class and uneducated people, no matter what their nationality, have a tendancy to act like boneheads. However your own behaviour can aggravate this to a greater or lesser extent. Can you think of any ways in which you may have antagonised them in the first place?

[Donz]

Conclusions:

1. Thai friendliness is a hypocritical lie perpetrated on farangs to take their money.

2. Uneducated Thai people are really quite stupid and unable to think.

3. There are some nice Thai people but are far outnumbered by the stupid greedy ones.

Please do not dismiss this as "another anti-Thai diatribe"

Examine it and see if there is any TRUTH.

No chance at all.

TV is the Farang Rak Thai board. Most posters here fly into an uncontrolable frenzy at the slightest suggestion that Thais aren't the greatest people on earth.

You have said a number of things here that are unquestionably true. For that, you will never be forgiven.

And most just think ALL thai ppl are stupid and Farangs are never in the wrong.

Number 2 is probaly correct though

[Ulysses G.]

I have had a lot more problem with jealous farang competitors than Thais, however, we did have a bar full of dirt-bag Thais selling drugs next to one of my stores for quite a while and had a lot of problems with them.

I had made friends with a policeman who is a bodyguard to the Royal Family when they are in Chiang Mai and he used to visit the bar and warn them about all the rules that they were violating every time they bothered me, and that seemed to keep them at bay. Eventually - after not paying rent for 2 years - they were thrown out and I took over their shop and gave it a good cleaning.

[simon43]

Mark - sorry to hear about your problems. I don't think it would justify to tar all Thais with the same brush..

That being said, my advice is to cut your losses. You will never win in this situation and it could even get rather dangerous for you

Get out whilst your losses are acceptable

Good luck

Simon

[Donz]

Mark - sorry to hear about your problems. I don't think it would justify to tar all Thais with the same brush..

That being said, my advice is to cut your losses. You will never win in this situation and it could even get rather dangerous for you

Get out whilst your losses are acceptable

Good luck

Simon

Agree, if all what you say is true, maybe you need to relocate your business before it gets dangerous

[the swagman]

What I find is that here on Samui at least, most of the Thai people I meet are very greedy and resentful of the farangs, but forget conveniently that the only reason they have a business or ,like many, have become quite rich, is because of the farangs.

Any insights into Thai mindset would be appreciated.

Bear in mind that these people are uneducated and from a low class part of the social structure.

I guess what really p's me off is that we would not do that to them in my country.

Conclusions:

1. Thai friendliness is a hypocritical lie perpetrated on farangs to take their money.

2. Uneducated Thai people are really quite stupid and unable to think.

3. There are some nice Thai people but are far outnumbered by the stupid greedy ones.

Please do not dismiss this as "another anti-Thai diatribe"

Examine it and see if there is any TRUTH.

You're tarring the whole country with the same brush.

On the whole, uneducated and unemployed, or part employed Thais are generally not to sharp in the social sense, they are very streetwise and will take you for all they can.

Thai friendliness is not hypocritical, Thais are friendly. They are hospitable and warm to all foreigners, they are overly proud of their country and many of its institutions. But you live here, you own a business, you are different.

In your line of business, you don't meet the others. It's a pity.

[mark lamai]

thanks all for your replies.

I am not tarring all Thais with the same brush.

Its from my experience of the people I have come into contact with here.

In the past I have had some wonderful Thai friends, but they were not in the tourist/bar scene.

they were true friends, i.e. they did not want something from me.

yes its a pity most of us don't meet nice polite Thais, but that's the nature of being a tourist or working in the bar scene. We rarely do.

Apart from my little problems,

really the question I am asking is,

"where is politenes and honesty?"

Is most of whatever politeness a farang sees simply a charade?

[dog412]

have you ever seen the buzzards circling overhead?

[baboon]

Mark - sorry to hear about your problems. I don't think it would justify to tar all Thais with the same brush..

That being said, my advice is to cut your losses. You will never win in this situation and it could even get rather dangerous for you

Get out whilst your losses are acceptable

Good luck

Simon

I feel really sorry for you, Mark. Unfortunately I would have to agree with the above,[that or befriend a high ranking policeman] and the next time you want to go into business, check who your neighbours/competitors are thoroughly. Thailand can become very nasty very quickly, so watch your back whatever you decide to do. Good luck.

[Patex]

I have a small bar in Lamai...

[nostrel]

these are the sort of things that potential bar owners dont investigate and dont know about .

sure they want you to fail ,they might even undercut prices to drive you out of business and then laugth their heads off. its dog eat dog ,phuket is even worse for naked greed . so take it easy and dont make waves with them because you could quite easilly wind up dogmeat if you are not carefull.

Dont expect any gentlemanly negotiations with your neighbours .

[Jeff1]

I might be reading this wrong and if so, sorry . From what I gathered, you just opened this bar next door to another bar 2 months ago and now you are having problems with said bar ?

Call me kooky but this is not a Thai thing. Anyone in any country would have a problem with this.

I suggest you move.

[kat]

Agree with the *Nostrel's post. You are in one of the worst places for both decent Thais in business, farang/Thai relations, and safety. If I were you I'd go somewhere else.

Better yet, with the unspoken attitude of we are Thai and you are farang (nationwide I'm afraid), why even invest in the first place? You are damned if you do either way: as a farang colonizer, or as someone who does not have full rights to their investment by equal competiton or legal protection. Why do it? For me, that is the most simple and straightfoward response to bullshite like that.

*edit: sorry, but the same problems do not arise in every country. In other countries, there are enforceable laws that cover everyone, and you don't end up murdered or disappeared for 6,000 baht for protecting your business interests from a pack of hyenas.

Edited September 5, 2006 by kat

[mrbojangles]

*edit: sorry, but the same problems do not arise in every country. In other countries, there are enforceable laws that cover everyone, and you don't end up murdered or disappeared for 6,000 baht for protecting your business interests from a pack of hyenas.

A key point and one which needs much consideration

[kat]

Thanks Bojangles. It is just a reality that bad laws lead to bad business practices and a flawed or unlevel playing field. Everyone knows this, and it leads to all kinds of moral hazards regarding business in this country for foreigners. You combine this with lack of transparency, distorted economic signals, and a lack of real competition (i.e. regular assainations of the competition by big-time players), and rabid nationalism, especially when convienent ... Houston, we've got a problem, to say the least.

You don't like the way foreign investment is treated here, from the bottom all the way to the top?

Don't invest. That's the best and most efficient response.

[khall64au]

Agree with the *Nostrel's post. You are in one of the worst places for both decent Thais in business, farang/Thai relations, and safety. If I were you I'd go somewhere else.

Better yet, with the unspoken attitude of we are Thai and you are farang (nationwide I'm afraid), why even invest in the first place? You are damned if you do either way: as a farang colonizer, or as someone who does not have full rights to their investment by equal competiton or legal protection. Why do it? For me, that is the most simple and straightfoward response to bullshite like that.

*edit: sorry, but the same problems do not arise in every country. In other countries, there are enforceable laws that cover everyone, and you don't end up murdered or disappeared for 6,000 baht for protecting your business interests from a pack of hyenas.

Well said Kat. A good friend of mine ran a very successful business on Phuket which attracted positive media attention. The Thai lessor (hyena lady) became jealous and gave my friend 8 days to vacate the premises so she could set up the same service on location - effectively stealing the business from under my friend's hard-working nose. Even though she was violating the rental contract on the premises, hyena lady even cut off the electricity to prove she was serious - so my friend had no option but to move out.

Both the lessor and the lessee are Thai by the way!

[kat]

Yep, Khall. Heard variations of this story more times than I wish to remember. Right now, I'm worried about a somewhat innocent and trusting new comer (about 1 year) who has set up a school with a Thai partner she has known for about that time.

Of course, when you warn people of what you have seen time and time again, you come off as cynical and jaded. For my friend's sake, I hope that's it

*edit: and yes, as Khall mentioned, Thais brutally undercut one another as well. It goes all the way up, even involving the recent murder of the TRT MP who wanted to start an agricultural market in Issan. BTW: have they arrested the mysterious person who they were sure was involved ....... uhm, no.

There is very little concept of real competition here based on merit or skill. Mostly jealousy, greed, revenge, and guns.

Edited September 5, 2006 by kat

[khall64au]

Yep, Khall. Heard variations of this story more times than I wish to remember. Right now, I'm worried about a somewhat innocent and trusting new comer (about 1 year) who has set up a school with a Thai partner she has known for about that time.

Of course, when you warn people of what you have seen time and time again, you come off as cynical and jaded. For my friend's sake, I hope that's it

Interestingly enough, when I first came to work in Thailand - I was the ONLY farang in a branch office of 20 Thai staff. I copped it very rough, very rough indeed for the first year or more - to the point where I wondered why I even bothered trying to work here and promote the country. I stuck it out though and lasted 2 and half years with that company.

A few days ago, I met a key executive from said company and was told, quite honestly, that all the staff missed working with me and wished I'd never left. Maybe a rare story - but I guess I passed the test - big time - in the end....

[Thaddeus]

Reading this thread makes my judgement about a different topic even more certain "Do you regret moving upcountry"

There are four shops in my village, they all sell the same stuff at the same price, exactly the same price (there is one shop that we fondly call BigC, as they have things like Scotch tape see dam and other rarities), they don't argue with each other, they don't try to undercut one another, people just go to the one that requires the least effort, either returning from work or nipping out from the house.

It's a much more harmonious existence ...... Mark...... Move, you don't have to move as far out as I have.... but you do need to get away from there.

[Jeff1]

*edit: sorry, but the same problems do not arise in every country. In other countries, there are enforceable laws that cover everyone, and you don't end up murdered or disappeared for 6,000 baht for protecting your business interests from a pack of hyenas.

I should rephrase that as I do not know about ALL other countries but in the United States as a SMALL business owner doing the same thing I can assure you that you would have problems. There might even be a enforceable law stating that you can't have 2 bars next to each other.

[britmaveric]

Well two choices buy them out or move on to greener pastures and setup shop elsewhere. Bar isnt worth your life and there are some nasty floating around samui who certainly would do harm for much less.

[VTR1000]

You want to make a small fortune on Samui?

Invest a big one!

Kop khun khrap

[fxm88]

Do they rent their shophouse? Buy it and kick them out.

Or move.

Or get some of those noise cancelling headphones.

[fxm88]

[delete duplicate]

Edited September 5, 2006 by fxm88

[unforgiven]

Well we only know your side of the story.

Also you comming out saying Thai people are not friendly and most of them are stupid, you say we would not do that in our country? well it does happend time to time.

You say most thai people are just greedy and jealous of the farangs?

Maybe its your attitude that brought this on yourself.

I do think this is just a Thai bashing thread.

Odviously you haven't been to Lamai