Looking for info about baling straw

[JungleBiker]

I'm looking into the feasibility of making straw bales (for the purposes of using them to make pellets).

The straw would be on other people farms, not my own straw.

I've searched the forum but could not find much.

I'd be grateful if anyone can share info about the machinery, logistics and costs of making straw bales.

For example, what is a good combination of tractor and baler (in terms of hp, size, model, etc) and what do they cost?

Dimensions and weight of bales?

(Note: I'm assuming here that the bales will be the small rectangular bales and not the huge round bales but if anyone thinks the latter could be more appropriate I'll be interested to hear).

How much time does it take to bale a rai of straw?

How many tons of straw per rai?

Breakdown of baling costs (labour, fuel, twine, maintenance and servicing, etc)?

Is bailing after during the night practical or not?

For how many weeks/days is the window or season for baling? In other words, for how long could the baler be kept working during a harvest season? I guess it depends on many factors such as will the farmers grow a follow-on crop, how hungry the local cattle are...!?

Do farmers with straw lying on their rice land (i.e. un-baled) sell it and if so at what price?

I'll also be interested to know what are the current prices for bales and the charges for baling services?

Besides making the bales, they need to be moved from the field to another place. When I was a kid, the farmers I helped during the summer holidays had large 4-wheel trailers that were pulled by a tractor - do such trailers exist in Thailand or does everyone use trucks?

Also, the bales would be stacked in neat stacks and then a tractor with a special front-end loader that clamped 2 sides of the stack would lift them up and put them onto the trailer - do such front-end loaders exist here?

How about simple 2-pronged pitch forks used for manually loading individual bales onto trailers or trucks - has anyone seen these around?

Any other info, tips, experiences, warnings, etc, will be very welcome.

Many thanks.

JB.

[gerry123]

Please p m me for my 50,000 bht consultancy fee bank detail and full / complete /comprehensive information will be supplied

Edited April 25, 2015 by gerry123

[johnbarpic]

I am intrigued what the use of the pellets is the machinery mentioned is quite a large capital expense in Uk so i would imagine not much different here in Thailand. also very little wheat or barley is grown here in Thailand.

sorry i cannot assist with prices but please either pm me or post the use of the pellets.

[NeverSure]

I'm not sure about the pellets either as there is little food value in straw. Its normal value is in compost although that takes time and effort because it has almost no nitrogen or microorganisms to help decompose it and it needs to be kept damp. It is often used as animal bedding first to saturate it with poop and urine. Usually it is plowed under but it steals nitrogen from the soil as it decomposes.

There are self powered balers that have an engine, and PTO powered models. You can pull the self powered models with a very small tractor and the PTO models need at least a 35 HP tractor. You can adjust your ground speed to reduce the PTO power needs but don't go under 35 HP unless you want to crawl.

I have no idea about cost in LOS. The baling twine is a small issue. I would buy natural sisal rather than nylon so it would decompose if I accidentally left any anywhere.

You can bale about 2 rai an hour with a 7' (2+ meter) baler if you can maneuver to keep going in circles.

Edit. I don't know about yield. When we actually planted for hay it had a mixture of grains and grasses and was a crop. We'd get around 2 to 3 tons per rai depending on the year and weather. You won't get nearly that out of straw. With wheat straw we got about 1 ton per rai and did enough for cattle bedding.

People always shared a crop 50/50 if they did the cutting, baling and hauling. Maybe someone here would know what's normal in LOS.

Edited April 25, 2015 by NeverSure

[pigeonjake]

hi,

well i cant add much to what as been said as never sure is our tractor man on here,

but i will say i buy them in at 28bht a bail deliverd to my farm for bedding for our pigs

[slapout]

i helped a fellow set up straw in, straw pellets out system back in the real world (years ago)

the finished pellets were the same size as cattle cubes and used the same equipment, as he bought the equipment off of a feed company going out of business. his purpose/business plan was to make pellet fuel from straw for heating during winter months. he found that the straw humidity had to be correct to get a pellet that would stay together during handling and transport and the baled straw had to be run through a grinder which is designed for grinding baled hay, corn, etc so it can be mixed with whatever minerals, etc you decide on. the grinder is shaped like a tub about 5 foot across (it would accept a round bale) and required power from the pto on a tractor.

just a brief personal experience if you have a intrest in the pellet production you mention

[JungleBiker]

Hi Gerry,

Thanks for your generous offer. I've sent you a PM asking for your CV.

Hi John,

I have no idea what pelleting machines cost because I'd supply the bales to someone who does ;-) I believe they import their pelleting machines from China.

Actually I'm talking about rice straw, not wheat or barley.

Hi Neversure,

The pellets are for fuel/burning! Climate friendly renewable biomass energy.

Thanks for the info. Since I'm considering baling thousands of rai I'd be interested in 35+hp tractors rather than smaller ones. If 35hp is the smallest, then what would be the biggest tractor you'd use with a 2-m wide baler? I guess going too big just means extra capital cost and extra fuel/running costs but not faster baling? Would a Kubota M5000 be ideal or too big? (I saw that in 2006 Maizefarmer reckoned the M series were Rolls Royce quality tractors... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/83055-rice-harvesting/ ).

I did find elsewhere on the web some rice straw yields and it seems that it is usually just a bit lower than the paddy yield, so for example if you get say a ton of paddy per rai then you'll get less than a ton of straw (perhaps about 900kg/rai). It also depends on the variety - I think the Jasmine/Hom Mali rice gives more straw than some of the more modern higher-yielding white rice varieties.

Hi Jake,

Thanks for sharing the price you pay. I did find a few other prices when I searched the forum but some of them were a few years old. But 25 - 30 baht/bale seems to be the range unless they're being trucked far away then the price will be higher.

Hi Slapout,

Thanks for sharing your past experiences about pelleting straw. Luckily for me, pelleting will be someone else's business and they already use driers (to get the right moisture levels) and grinders (to get the right particle size), so they appear to be up to speed on those crucial points!

Thanks again everyone. I hope I'll be hearing more from others.

Cheers,

JB.

[pigeonjake]

just a thing you might of to think of here in thailand is the fields are small, its ok having a big tractor in the uk, usa ect, but here, small paddies,? i dont know, and i think there would be one hell of a lot of transport involved,

good luck though

[kickstart]

Well here goes ,here in Thailand,the only big bales I have seen are up at Chokchai farm in Korat ,95% of bales are the small type size depends on the baler setting ,most baleing is are done by contrac,s who buy the straw in the field bale it themselves then sell it to the farmers so it is they interest to make the bales short and light, as bales are sold per bale 1 bale is about is about l20 x50 x50 weight is about15-18 kg .

Rice farmers around here sell the lose harvested straw for about 200 baht /rie,some farmers sell the straw by the bale ,at about 5 bart bale, dairy farmers buy straw at 25-50 bart a bale ,.maine rice harvesting time ,round here November straw would be 25 bart/ bale August when very little straw 35-45/bale, has been up to 50 bart /bale. round here staw can be haled up to 100 km, now straw is about 30 bart /bale

The popular make of baler here in Thailand is Cicoria balers from Italy, have seen them for sale at some of the machinery dealers in Rangsit, BKK, a there are a few New Holland balers ,but they are all second hand are are getting well worn,

The Cicorie is not a big baler and a 40 hp tractor would probably do ,but I would have thought of your big use ,the pto clutch,and engine will take a lot of wear,so I would go for a Ford 6610 ,70 hp but ,would use very little power ,and wear less, and probable use less fuel.Cicorie spare parts should be available ,Fords no problem

Some big contractors will take the tractor and baler with them on their trucks to where they are bailing ,sometimes for a few days bring home a few loads, then go back for the equipment at the end of the job ,

Problem with Thai rice fields they are small 4-5 rie for some round here ,and with a baler would spend half turing so and moving fields so do not budget 8-900 bales a day ,unless you are in big fields, a job to say yield of straw so many depends

When you have got your bales to haul them ,a 10 wheel truck will carry about 600 bales ,a modified pick up( shock absorbers) will carry about 200 bales.

If you are in the central plains some farmers can grow 3 crops a year, ,some around grow 2 crops a year, all depends on water availability, Isan 1 crop a year, same as a lot around here,it is a job to get out they and ask.

Now more farmer are using combin to harvest the crop ,sometimes the fields are very wet no way could you bale the straw,will have to wait for the straw to dry out,cows do not like mouldy straw ,and yield will be low.

String is no problem any machinery dealer will sell it ,plus a lot of shops at your market will sell string.

[farmerjo]

So would you need a rake to make rows for the baler or you just follow the header rows.

Anybody seen and 3 point linkage rakes in thailand.

To the OP,round here we have very few cattle left but do occassionally see the thai built balers in the fields.

They are stationery pto driven where the locals collect the straw or set it up next to a pile of thrashed riced and hand feed it into the baler producing little square bales.

Probably more economical to target these fields rather than fields harvested by machine.

Edited April 26, 2015 by farmerjo

[kickstart]

So would you need a rake to make rows for the baler or you just follow the header rows.

Anybody seen and 3 point linkage rakes in thailand.

To the OP,round here we have very few cattle left but do occassionally see the thai built balers in the fields.

They are stationery pto driven where the locals collect the straw or set it up next to a pile of thrashed riced and hand feed it into the baler producing little square bales.

Probably more economical to target these fields rather than fields harvested by machine.

Normale you follow the header rows ,and normale no need for a rake ,I have seen t rakes in LOS, one was a pto driven one, the other was a an old fashioned acrobat 4 wheels set at an angle turning the straw into rows ,normally used in hay making,

Not seen a stationary baler in a lot of years ,I think they were made in the days before combin , when all the straw was harvested by hand no rows ,just drag the baler across the field to the next heap of straw and fork the the straw in to the baler.

There use to be adverts in the Thai farming mags for stationary balers.

[JungleBiker]

Many thanks Kickstart for your help. The information you've provided is very useful and much appreciated.

Regarding "stationary" balers, there is a post dated 2009 here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/236486-kubota-dc-60-harvesters/ where the poster said he used a regular (not stationary) baler to bale the straw piles found where people thresh their rice; he had 3 people forking the straw into the baler. I think farmerjo's idea to target the places where combines aren't used is a good idea though such places are probably becoming more and more difficult to find. I read here that combining versus manual harvesting can increase net benefits by 30%: http://www.aensiweb.com/old/rjabs/rjabs/2010/778-784.pdf

If anyone else is interested in the subject of baling, I found the website of a Thai company that makes 2 models of balers: www.siambaler.com It says they also sell the Cicoria balers (www.cicoria.it) and New Holland balers. I haven't got any prices yet.

I also came across self-propelled balers, including some huge 20 ton monsters in the US mainly used for baling alfalfa: http://www.alliedsystems.com/Freeman/sp1592.htm And also some much smaller self-propelled machines from Japan for baling rice straw, including a very small model that you can walk behind! http://www.takakita-net.co.jp (I'm not suggesting these are appropriate for Thailand).

And here http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/8425.pdf is a rice straw marketing guide from California. It has some useful information about the amount of nutrients removed from the field when you take the straw out, plus how it can be used to feed livestock, and other interesting bits of information. Strangely, one of the uses for straw that it doesn't mention is fuel pellets.

Well I still need to find a few more numbers before I can complete a spreadsheet to do some number-crunching, but so far, the numbers look promising.

[kickstart]

Having worked on farms in the uk the most popular baler there was the New Holland ,also very reliable, did not know they were available in Thailand new,as for the Cicoria balers I know nothing,but they are the most used round here ,which to me means they are a cheaper?, and can use a a smaller tractor .in the uk most baler tractors are 60-70 hp, could say that is all they got ,but we would not think of putting a MF 135 ,45 hp engine and only 38 hp at the pto, on a baler.

The M500 you wrote about is a 50 hp engine,but an estimated 45 hp at the pto,would that be big enough?.

For your heavy use one of the most important thing for me would be availability of spare parts, for any baler

A stationary baler I would have thought to slow and labour intensive,but round here a bale gang is normale 3-4 people for a 10 wheel truck , you would struggle to bale, load, cart, and travel, with 600 bales in a day with a stationary baler , but I think a New Holland would do it to.

For costs , travel , labour, (lao khow ) etc .you would need to make 600 bales a day to break even??

The pick ups often go out in two's or three's,owner driver , may be a mate, they help each other load . field already baled.

KS.

[JungleBiker]

Thanks again KS for the additional info. I accept your point about the bigger tractor. Also good to know that New Holland balers are popular in the UK and are reliable. I will try to find out about availability and spare parts in Thailand.

I just found this video on youtube

showing a New Holland baler in action in the UK. The same poster (thefunkyfarmer) has more videos showing loading

and unloading, plus other kinds of balers. They use a bale sled to leave the bales in flat groups of 8 and a flat 8 bale grab to pick them up. So they have just 2 people (one driving the tractor/grab and the other on the trailer.

Some of the comments below the loading video talk about using even less labour and they mention "kick balers". So I just looked up kick balers and see they "kick" the bale out the back into a trailer attached to the baler. One man job. But I think maneuvering such a long "convoy" (tractor + baler + 4-wheel trailer) through small rice paddies would be impractical (not easy to reverse!). Also, not sure yet what happens when those jumbled bales reach the farm (I'm curious to know how are they unloaded and stacked - I need to do some more searching).

JB.

[kickstart]

,That photo of a flat 8 grab brings back some memories we use to shift 20 000 bales a year hay and straw using the flat 8 system. at first we had a sledge that collected bales in 8's , then a lad would put them in to order for the bale grab to pick up, then we got a bale sledge that would stack them into 8's ,ready for the bale grab to pick them up, 95% of the time it worked ok, but some time they was a hiccup and the bales would be in a heap .

As you said a 2 man system .we use to take 4 trailers ,when we could ,into the field,2 behind the bale grab tractor ,and 2 behind the hauling tractor(,do that now , we would get locked), up it worked well . the bale grab we had was a Farmhand ,made in the uk. on an MF 165 tractor.

For Thailand ,a sugar cane grab could be modified, the hydraulics are there, the grab would have to be imported, unless one could be made in Thailand.

For a simple bale sledge use one with a gate at the back ,collect about 10 bales ,at the headland release the the bales,for the pick up team.

You would struggle to find one in Thailand ,but as I have said before find a design and get a local guy to make one.would probably have to be one on wheels ,for transport we had,one that had strips of steel for a floor ,kept the bales off the ground and cleaner ,I would think that would be needed in Thailand ,if baling in a not over dry rice paddy.

Talking of kick balers , we try a system, the grab wold stack 8 bales 10 high a trailer would back up, lift vertically, open the grab,squeeze the bales to hold them, the trailer would drop back down ,, and away you would go ,at the storage site lift the trailer vertically ,release the grab ,and you have a stack of bales. sometimes it worked ,sometimes you had a heap of 80 bales on the floor to re stack.might find a video of one working

KS.

[kwonitoy]

Baling straw is quite popular around where I'm at 120 km NE of Udon Thani.

When they harvest the rice it's brought to a central threshing machine and a big pile of straw is left, PTO driven baler is brought up next to it and then just hand delievered to the machine, as always it's a dangerous looking operation. I never liked to get closer to front end of a baler when doing it in Canada.

You can buy tow behind balers at Kubota, see link

Last time I checked they were approx 200,000 baht, according to the brocher it's listed as an option for a 24-47 hp tractor, I'd want to go with the higher hp for sure.

As for baling windrows of straw from a combine never seen it done here but did it in Canada. 15 bale stooker pulled behind the baler with brother riding and stacking on the back. Did many thousands that way

http://www.siamkubota.co.th/en/product/implement/258-Hay-Baler-HB130-Plus-Special-design-for-best-matching-with-KUBOTA-tractor

Edited May 3, 2015 by kwonitoy

[slapout]

combine operators are not real happy cutting small grain straw for bailing as they handle much more straw going thru the machine, while threashing the grain out. we had a very limited market for straw bales but did disconnet the straw spreader and bailed up 3 or 400 bales

we use it for bedding and garden mulch as well as donating a load to local stock show for bedding for those who had none. like handling those light straw bales than those alfala that could weigh over 100 pounds. cheap farmers paid by the bale, thus wanted them as heavy as possibl and wanted (3) of us to pick up in field and stack in barn for 5 cents a bale.hell we were glaq to get the work/money

[kickstart]

Baling straw is quite popular around where I'm at 120 km NE of Udon Thani.

When they harvest the rice it's brought to a central threshing machine and a big pile of straw is left, PTO driven baler is brought up next to it and then just hand delievered to the machine, as always it's a dangerous looking operation. I never liked to get closer to front end of a baler when doing it in Canada.

You can buy tow behind balers at Kubota, see link

Last time I checked they were approx 200,000 baht, according to the brocher it's listed as an option for a 24-47 hp tractor, I'd want to go with the higher hp for sure.

As for baling windrows of straw from a combine never seen it done here but did it in Canada. 15 bale stooker pulled behind the baler with brother riding and stacking on the back. Did many thousands that way

I wonder how the price compares to the Cicoria baler, I would go with the Kubota ,I would say there spear parts /service would be better, and more local.

A 47 hp tractor, that would be 39 hp at the pto,would have thought ,to much a a strain on the engine,overheating?.

Kubota say "up to 1600 bales a day",that must be one big field,can not see that with small Thai rice fields.

[kwonitoy]

Baling straw is quite popular around where I'm at 120 km NE of Udon Thani.

When they harvest the rice it's brought to a central threshing machine and a big pile of straw is left, PTO driven baler is brought up next to it and then just hand delievered to the machine, as always it's a dangerous looking operation. I never liked to get closer to front end of a baler when doing it in Canada.

You can buy tow behind balers at Kubota, see link

Last time I checked they were approx 200,000 baht, according to the brocher it's listed as an option for a 24-47 hp tractor, I'd want to go with the higher hp for sure.

As for baling windrows of straw from a combine never seen it done here but did it in Canada. 15 bale stooker pulled behind the baler with brother riding and stacking on the back. Did many thousands that way

I wonder how the price compares to the Cicoria baler, I would go with the Kubota ,I would say there spear parts /service would be better, and more local.

A 47 hp tractor, that would be 39 hp at the pto,would have thought ,to much a a strain on the engine,overheating?.

Kubota say "up to 1600 bales a day",that must be one big field,can not see that with small Thai rice fields.

I wouldn't be worried about overheating, I have a 4508i Kubota rated at 46hp.

I've used a rototiller sunk to maximum depth all day long in 38C heat, in heavier soil it makes the little thing work hard, temp never goes off the center of the gauge as long as the radiator is kept clean.

A baler wouldn't be near as hard to spin over

As far as the output of 1600 per day, that's a blue sky number from the sales department, we do that and more in Canada on a 200 acre field with perfectly laid out windrows. Can't see it happening here.

[Postharvesting]

Is baler usage is increasing in Thailand?

Crop: Rice and Sugarcane

Does it have presence of used, imported or new balers?

Demand expected increase in Thailand? By what %?

Demand drivers or inhibitors?

Are small or big balers popular in Thailand?

Round or square balers are popular in Thailand?

Who are the leading players? market share?

Government policies encouraging Baling instead or burning?

 

I would like to know your expert opinion on Balers in Thailand.

[farmerjo]

On 2/25/2022 at 9:45 PM, Postharvesting said:

Is baler usage is increasing in Thailand?

Crop: Rice and Sugarcane

Does it have presence of used, imported or new balers?

Demand expected increase in Thailand? By what %?

Demand drivers or inhibitors?

Are small or big balers popular in Thailand?

Round or square balers are popular in Thailand?

Who are the leading players? market share?

Government policies encouraging Baling instead or burning?

 

I would like to know your expert opinion on Balers in Thailand.

You really need to hop in the pickup and have a drive around.

Each area is different on how advanced the farmers are.

Have a look in a few machinery dealerships,one near me has two claas big balers for sale.

Then take a drive to the corporate companies near,we have a sugar factory close by so that would explain why the dealer has balers in stock.

Some Kubota dealers have small square balers on display,some don't.

2nd hand balers can be found online at places like jssr auctions and truck2ndhand.com.

 

[Postharvesting]

I plan to visit corn fields to see it for myself.
 

but, I was wondering why there is a spacing difference as per the region. How much cost benefits do farmers get for buying used machinery instead of new machinery?

 

what is the annual maintenance Do they incur on new vs old combine harvester and baler?