Are More or Fewer Westerners Relocating to Thailand?

[Lee4Life]

In sheer numbers 75% of my friends that retired here moved back to the USA. Some are thinking of visiting South America, some are considering returning to try Vietnam or PI.

The only friends that remain here are because they have a wife and home here. The single guys all left. The married guys whose spouse had a U.S. Passport are gone. The hardcore guys that used to come whenever they had vacation time are going elsewhere.

The complaints range from the visa system is a pain to just a general feeling that Thailand has changed since they opened the floodgates to the Chinese a few years ago.

I retired here in February. I thought I and my wife who holds a U.S. Passport would live on the beach and relax. But the reality is this place has changed. The infrastructure is overwhelmed by masses of Chinese tourists. Their busses block traffic such that it feels like I'm in Bangkok at times. Their sheer numbers and lack of civility ruin the beach or any destination you take the family to. I came to Thailand because of its slow pace, nice beaches, etc. Sadly this looks more like a province in China than the Thailand I remembered.

Hopefully Hua Hin is better as we are going there next week. I heard Phuket is overrun with Chinese as well?

The Chinese influx doen't even register in my radar...not all of us live in Pattaya/Hua Hin and what not.

A quick rundown of reasons for me would be (in no particular order)

Higher prices (strong baht), not much rapport/fun with thais anymore, thai women have become 'ugly' in more ways than one,relatively difficult visas, no rapport among farangs (loners, alcoholics, nutcases, family types)

The only 'constant' left over is the eternal summer.

For many people this is not reaon enough to stay.

I know exactly what you mean!

Those damn "family types".

They ruin Thailand for everyone.

Not running around spending money like there is no tomorrow.

Making the bar girls feel neglected and depressed.

Not expecting the people of Thailand to be more like the people "back home".

Those "family types" they are very dangerous and very boring! (sarc )

I am a "family type" and would not have it anyother way.

This is not Disneyland for me...it is home.

Family types (esp. with children at home) are NOT fun.

They have other priorities than single people.

I was not disparaging them just stating a fact.

..even if you are into clean fun (as I am) family types are nowhere to be seen.

..and don't forget that most of them are beaver-whipped too.

Just my experience.

I am so, so glad that us family types have other priorities! Maybe some day you will be blessed by being a family type. Your marks are disparaging, and just because you see something as a fact does not make it so.

[Lee4Life]

it seems there is definitely a change to many of the expats living here. Few years ago there was a more positive attitude. Now it seems something or things have changed. In the last year eleven of my friends or people I know have left mainly for Portugal and Latin America. There are three others planning on leaving in the next little while. I don't consider this whining. it is simply stating unfolding reality. I hope it does not continue as I lose some really good friends here.

Everyone hates to see real friends leave. In Udon and our Golf association we have members go back home every year during the hot and rainy season.. This year a couple have said they would not be returning.. I think they will but time will tell..

On a brighter note a Swiss friend has left and will be returning in October. He and his Thai wife plan on staying and retiring here for good.

Mexico ! Anyone who is thinking about Mexico should get caught up on the different activities of the mafia and cartels that are running that show...Borderland beat is a good source as are many others.. Quick border runs for medical and shopping have all but stopped even by the Mexican Americans who live in the states.. Just to darn dangerous...

So back to the original question... Thai immigration has the real numbers... It would be interesting to see what they are holding.. Without any type P.R.

Now that would be interesting! But I'm afraid there is very little chance of foreigners seeing any of those numbers.

[Benmart]

In sheer numbers 75% of my friends that retired here moved back to the USA. Some are thinking of visiting South America, some are considering returning to try Vietnam or PI.

The only friends that remain here are because they have a wife and home here. The single guys all left. The married guys whose spouse had a U.S. Passport are gone. The hardcore guys that used to come whenever they had vacation time are going elsewhere.

The complaints range from the visa system is a pain to just a general feeling that Thailand has changed since they opened the floodgates to the Chinese a few years ago.

I retired here in February. I thought I and my wife who holds a U.S. Passport would live on the beach and relax. But the reality is this place has changed. The infrastructure is overwhelmed by masses of Chinese tourists. Their busses block traffic such that it feels like I'm in Bangkok at times. Their sheer numbers and lack of civility ruin the beach or any destination you take the family to. I came to Thailand because of its slow pace, nice beaches, etc. Sadly this looks more like a province in China than the Thailand I remembered.

Hopefully Hua Hin is better as we are going there next week. I heard Phuket is overrun with Chinese as well?

I've been coming to Thailand on holiday since 1993 and now live here, full-time since 2013.

Things have changed, some good and otherwise.

I have no control of what goes on here or who visits.

I do have control of where I call home.

When the grass looks greener elsewhere, I can move on.

[robertthesculptor]

I have seen a number of westerners leave already. Family with businesses in Bangkok also say the numbers of westerners visiting is low and falling fast.

Living in Issan i am more isolated. Here it appears that there is not a problem with the Thai people, there does seem to be a somewhat negetive attitude from the current leadership.

[LuckyLew]

I my area of Bangkok I am seeing more and more foreigners

Seems a lot of younger students go to Uni in Thailand

Only time I notice the chinese tourists is when downtown Bkk

[lostoday]

With ever tightening rules and regulations which come with a rather disturbing aftertaste of racism, a military junta with a planless leader at the helm who is so in love with himself, and who believes that politics reduce to the tasks of implementing more erratic rules and regulations and babbling useless phrases in front of cameras; with increasing prices, a decline in quality of services, decline of friendliness of Thais towards westerners, and the fact that an investor or house/property buyer in this country owns nothing and has next to none rights regardless of how many millions of Baht or dollars he/she has invested here, mixed with the actual economic situation, it is no wonder that numbers of foreigners relocating to Thailand are in a major nose dive. Too many westerners have realised: Once the superficial Thai smile fades, the true colors shine through and those colors are darker than a Waffen SS uniform.

I've seen less whingers here lately. Nice change.

[island hopper]

No from the USA as far as my knowledge Now you can take flights from Miami, Fl, Atlanta, Ga and new York as I had did many times if you live on the east coast. I am sure there are many

more places you can fly out.to Thailand.

[MrWorldwide]

I know two Aussies who are desperate to get the visas for their Thai GFs to relocate to Australia, but neither of the guys has any apparent interest in living here and one of the ladies is making noises to the extent that she's just fine with the current sponsorship arrangement and has no intention of moving to Oz. Smart girl, IMO - he's a possessive sod who cant seem to make it to 5pm without getting hammered when he's in Pattaya and drones on about how much he hates his job : hardly the formula for longterm bliss but that's too far OT so I'll leave it there.

[NanLaew]

With ever tightening rules and regulations which come with a rather disturbing aftertaste of racism, a military junta with a planless leader at the helm who is so in love with himself, and who believes that politics reduce to the tasks of implementing more erratic rules and regulations and babbling useless phrases in front of cameras; with increasing prices, a decline in quality of services, decline of friendliness of Thais towards westerners, and the fact that an investor or house/property buyer in this country owns nothing and has next to none rights regardless of how many millions of Baht or dollars he/she has invested here, mixed with the actual economic situation, it is no wonder that numbers of foreigners relocating to Thailand are in a major nose dive. Too many westerners have realised: Once the superficial Thai smile fades, the true colors shine through and those colors are darker than a Waffen SS uniform.

And the price for this weeks longest, single rant sentence goes to...

...and then the stormtrooper allusion to cap it off?

Sublime.

[NanLaew]

The ex-pat night owl numbers in tourist towns and in lower Sukhumvit seem to be down massively.

If this is true, then it's great news. I hope it keeps going down massively more. If we're lucky, the sexpats will choose Cambodia or the PI...or Latin America, in the future.

Why so upset? Are you living on Nana? Or did the shiny brochure from "Thai Retirement Havens 'r' Us" fail to mention the chrome pole palaces and the indolent, old and lonely guys that are just looking for love?

[NanLaew]

i live a couple of minutes from Phuket Airport. Although there has recently been a huge growth in the number of condos, businesses and hotels in this area, I have not really seen any increase in the number of foreigners living here ==> meaning that I can almost count them on the fingers of one hand. Apart from me, there is a Russian family and an Indian family, both whose husbands work at the airport.

There has been a big increase in the number of western and Asian tourists 'passing through', but that is to be expected. Apart from speaking with my hotel guests in English, every other daily conversation that I have has to be in Thai.

I am sure there has been an increase in the number of foreigners moving to Phuket to live in their 'ghettos' in the southern part of the island, but I guess recent events - political (Phuket reputation for scams etc etc) and economic (Russian, Euro, Aussie currency exchange rates) - will negatively affect that immigration.

I stay in Thailand for the weather and my business, and because my dysfunctional Thai family (ex and extended family and kindergarten), would become even more dysfunctional (if that is possible), if I were not on hand to manage them

There's loads of new condo's in Pattaya too but well away from the pricey beachside locales on Jomtien, Ban Amphur and beyond. I think I am correct in assuming that there's a fair percentage of Thai ownership in these 'secondary' locales. Just wondering if Phuket has a similar, lower-priced constructions well away from the overpriced and overextended Patong and lower east coast beaches.

[rodders2]

I have lived in Thailand for 19 yrs, approx half that time spent in BKK. At that time I was working legitimately and the two big issue were the trouble involved in renewing both the work permit and Visa was unbelievable, not to mention the cost. The second issue was the corruption of the officials at companies I worked in. The last time I worked was following some time at a hospital where the corruption outweighed the patient care. At that point, I surrendered my work permit and changed to a retirement visa. I vowed never to work in Thailand again. And I never have. I moved to KamphaengPhet area and at that time (9 yrs ago) there was a local community of about 30 expats and the life was very good.

Now we have only 4 of us left, the area has a Big C mall, Tesco and many other so called up market shops, we even have a cinema (all Thai dubbed of course). But the problem now is that you cannot but anything and be sure it is genuine, things are advertised but not available, and what you have bought there is no back up service.

3 examples, A pair of glasses, it took 3 people to test my eyes as neither seemed to know what to do. The Frames were an expensive copy of designer brand, and when I went back a month or so later for a slight adjustment to the frame, I was told they couldn't do it and had to return the frames to BKK which would take a month.

Next I wanted to by a Samsung note 4 Tablet, I went to the shop that advertised it (Franchised) and was told they didn't have one, when asked if they could get one, it would have to come from BKK. After waiting 3 weeks and 4 visits to the shop, plus being told lies (like, the car bringing it from BKK crashed) I gave up and wrote to Samsung, who did help me but I had to go to BKK to get the unit.

A similar issue was with a brand new ASUS laptop. It had a defective keyboard, it went back to the shop 3 times, then to Pitsanoluk and finally I had to take it to the main dealer/service center in BKK. After 3 weeks with them and again a nasty letter to ASUS CEO I finally got it back.

My list goes on and on.

It is this constant non productive hassle that eventually wears you down. For anyone who has lived in a (civilized) society where things work, even the law, then it soon becomes a longing to get back to that.

My friend, a teacher at a University for 8 yrs, heard on the grapevine that his contract would not be renewed, at the end of this month, he went to ask if this was true to be told that it was. After 8 yrs service and they had not the decency to give him sufficient notice or even tell him. One wonders if or when they were going to tell him. That is Thainess.

Soon, my circle of 4 will be down to 3, I cannot take this much longer. I will be on my way to Canada.

One member commented on the endless summer here, well it is also nice to experience the seasons again.

[northernphil]

My local bar was owned by a Thai lady and her husband who is Swedish. One night I asked Nick " What is the population of Sweden ? " Can't remember the number he said but i said " That's not many but then there are 6 million in Thailand " Then he surprised me by saying " More and more are going back to Sweden as they are fed up with all the BS " This was about 3 years ago , never did find out what the BS was.

[rayongchelsea]

My local bar was owned by a Thai lady and her husband who is Swedish. One night I asked Nick " What is the population of Sweden ? " Can't remember the number he said but i said " That's not many but then there are 6 million in Thailand " Then he surprised me by saying " More and more are going back to Sweden as they are fed up with all the BS " This was about 3 years ago , never did find out what the BS was.

Same conversation recently. There are some bargains to be had in these Swedish villages.

Bs= feeling like they are constantly being over priced by the Thais.

Other factors just the novelty has worn off. Property issues around leasing ( Swedish developers) partners passing away etc...

[Mobi]

Slightly off topic but has anyone seen the recent Swedish TV Series, 30 Degrees in February? (10 episodes).

It's a fascinating interweaving of three separate stories about unhappy Swedes who come to Thailand to find happiness.

Yes, there are a few stereotypes (Swedes and Thais) and you can pick holes and criticise some of the plot-lines, but it actually gets better as it goes along.

It's never easy to watch - it's quite dark in places - with few, if any, redeeming characters - Swedish or Thai. But it does leave you with a reasonable appreciation of what certain aspects of life in Thailand are all about - the corruption, the easy lies and deceptions, the ignorance of Thai culture, the drinking cultures of both Thais and Swedes, and the prejudices of both Thais and Swedes. The characters probably all deserve their respective fates.

Clearly a low budget production, but the direction, cinematography and acting are excellent - from both the Swedes and Thais. There are some utterly believable characters. I get the impression that few - if any of the cast - are professional actors, but I may be wrong on this. It is all that one might expect from the excellent Scandi TV treadmill.

You can get it with English subtitles with the original dialogue being a mix of Swedish, Thai and English.

Anyone thinking of settling in Thailand should probably watch it as it will be an eye opener.

[Crazy chef 1]

I do not know if overall numbers have increased or decreased.

But, I do think the number of westerners has increased quite a bit here in Issan over the past few years.

Talking to them, I find many have lived in southern westernized Thailand previously and have either recently discovered the difference here in Issan, or have recently tired of the westernized style of life and tourist influence in the south.

As far as actual figures of those living in Thailand, would it be possible to gt some numbers from Thai Immigration on that?

Nice one Willy...but even in the south (if we take BKK as the Middle)are still some nice spots left...Pranburi,Chumpon,Prachuabkhirikan,even Hua Hin or the place where I live...still the good old Thailand just with sea view...

[Jim walker]

I have been living off and on in Thailand now for 16 years and a few of my local friends drinking buddies who have been here for many years have left Thailand permanently mainly because ether could not make a decent living in general office jobs or teaching work, I also have about 6 business friends who I meet up with for lunch occasionally when everyone is in town most of them have lived and owned factories in Thailand but most have now moved their factories and business operations to China so most of them have also moved to live in China nearer their businesses, and one has taken his business from Thailand base to a Singapore base now, so I wold feel in my circle of friends more are leaving for sure.

[Berkshire]

The ex-pat night owl numbers in tourist towns and in lower Sukhumvit seem to be down massively.

If this is true, then it's great news. I hope it keeps going down massively more. If we're lucky, the sexpats will choose Cambodia or the PI...or Latin America, in the future.

Why so upset? Are you living on Nana? Or did the shiny brochure from "Thai Retirement Havens 'r' Us" fail to mention the chrome pole palaces and the indolent, old and lonely guys that are just looking for love?

I said it was great news, so why would I be upset?

[siam2007]

In sheer numbers 75% of my friends that retired here moved back to the USA. Some are thinking of visiting South America, some are considering returning to try Vietnam or PI.

The only friends that remain here are because they have a wife and home here. The single guys all left. The married guys whose spouse had a U.S. Passport are gone. The hardcore guys that used to come whenever they had vacation time are going elsewhere.

The complaints range from the visa system is a pain to just a general feeling that Thailand has changed since they opened the floodgates to the Chinese a few years ago.

I retired here in February. I thought I and my wife who holds a U.S. Passport would live on the beach and relax. But the reality is this place has changed. The infrastructure is overwhelmed by masses of Chinese tourists. Their busses block traffic such that it feels like I'm in Bangkok at times. Their sheer numbers and lack of civility ruin the beach or any destination you take the family to. I came to Thailand because of its slow pace, nice beaches, etc. Sadly this looks more like a province in China than the Thailand I remembered.

Hopefully Hua Hin is better as we are going there next week. I heard Phuket is overrun with Chinese as well?

Those darn Asians!

Why do they need to visit Asia?

Once Americans were considered the rudist tourists.

I always thought the Germans were very harsh and rude..

Then came the damn Russians!

Now it's the Chinese....

Who's next?

Seems there is always someone not to like!

from my own experience witnessing tourists (I am involved in the hospitality business), not even the worst Americans, Germans, Russians can top the animal-like behaviour of Chinese Mainlanders (whereas Chinese from Taiwan, HongKong, Singapore and Malaysia are usually very well behaved and pleasant folks)

[chrisinth]

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After coming to Thailand for 10 years on holidays, I moved here (BKK) last September. My mates back in Oz will also be moving here when they are ready to retire. There are many differences between the way things are done her to Oz, but that's Thailand, and part of the reason we all love the place. If it was the exactly the same as our home countries there would be no reason to come here other than weather and cheaper cost of living. It's a shame there are so many whingers on TV. Rather than hop on TV and complain, if people are so unhappy here, why not just go back home or find another place to live.

Unfortunately, what you have said is true,"If it was the exactly the same as our home countries there would be no reason to come here".

You say you have lived here for only 7 months. Give it a little bit more time and you will think of Thailand as home. And so the circle for many is complete, time to start looking for somewhere that isn't like 'home'.

Give yourself time to become a whinger.................

[TheCruncher]

Slightly off topic but has anyone seen the recent Swedish TV Series, 30 Degrees in February? (10 episodes).

It's a fascinating interweaving of three separate stories about unhappy Swedes who come to Thailand to find happiness.

Yes, there are a few stereotypes (Swedes and Thais) and you can pick holes and criticise some of the plot-lines, but it actually gets better as it goes along.

It's never easy to watch - it's quite dark in places - with few, if any, redeeming characters - Swedish or Thai. But it does leave you with a reasonable appreciation of what certain aspects of life in Thailand are all about - the corruption, the easy lies and deceptions, the ignorance of Thai culture, the drinking cultures of both Thais and Swedes, and the prejudices of both Thais and Swedes. The characters probably all deserve their respective fates.

Clearly a low budget production, but the direction, cinematography and acting are excellent - from both the Swedes and Thais. There are some utterly believable characters. I get the impression that few - if any of the cast - are professional actors, but I may be wrong on this. It is all that one might expect from the excellent Scandi TV treadmill.

You can get it with English subtitles with the original dialogue being a mix of Swedish, Thai and English.

Anyone thinking of settling in Thailand should probably watch it as it will be an eye opener.

A tv series about Thailand, or any other country for that matter, should never been taken as a criterion about how life in that country really is.

A tv series will always project the view from the producer.

I have seen tv series where it looked like Pattaya was inhabited with lady boys only, or another where it was made to look as if bar girls were actually slaves who were forced to sell their bodies for 100 Baht a night.

Anyone who has ever visited Thailand knows better of course.

The thing is that the grass is always greener at the other side, but the reality is many times completely different, and especially in the case of Thailand.

Except for the good weather and cheap sex, and even the latter is actually a hidden snake in the grass, there is not much left that is in the favor of Thailand once you have left the tourist ghetto and have to deal with daily life.

[Mobi]

Slightly off topic but has anyone seen the recent Swedish TV Series, 30 Degrees in February? (10 episodes).

It's a fascinating interweaving of three separate stories about unhappy Swedes who come to Thailand to find happiness.

Yes, there are a few stereotypes (Swedes and Thais) and you can pick holes and criticise some of the plot-lines, but it actually gets better as it goes along.

It's never easy to watch - it's quite dark in places - with few, if any, redeeming characters - Swedish or Thai. But it does leave you with a reasonable appreciation of what certain aspects of life in Thailand are all about - the corruption, the easy lies and deceptions, the ignorance of Thai culture, the drinking cultures of both Thais and Swedes, and the prejudices of both Thais and Swedes. The characters probably all deserve their respective fates.

Clearly a low budget production, but the direction, cinematography and acting are excellent - from both the Swedes and Thais. There are some utterly believable characters. I get the impression that few - if any of the cast - are professional actors, but I may be wrong on this. It is all that one might expect from the excellent Scandi TV treadmill.

You can get it with English subtitles with the original dialogue being a mix of Swedish, Thai and English.

Anyone thinking of settling in Thailand should probably watch it as it will be an eye opener.

A tv series about Thailand, or any other country for that matter, should never been taken as a criterion about how life in that country really is.

A tv series will always project the view from the producer.

I have seen tv series where it looked like Pattaya was inhabited with lady boys only, or another where it was made to look as if bar girls were actually slaves who were forced to sell their bodies for 100 Baht a night.

Anyone who has ever visited Thailand knows better of course.

The thing is that the grass is always greener at the other side, but the reality is many times completely different, and especially in the case of Thailand.

Except for the good weather and cheap sex, and even the latter is actually a hidden snake in the grass, there is not much left that is in the favor of Thailand once you have left the tourist ghetto and have to deal with daily life.

Yes of course you are correct. But I wouldn't have recommended this TV series if I didn’t feel it had something useful to offer.

I first came to Thailand in 1974 and have been coming and going ever since, including living here for the best part of 20 years (in two spells) and working for eight of those years, and I can speak passable Thai.

I have also been married to five Thai women - not all at once I hasten to add.

So I think I do have some knowledge of the country and its people and the foreigners who come to live here, and in my humble opinion I believe this TV series does have something to add to the general discussion.

As I said in my earlier post, there are plot flaws and some obvious stereotypes, but the overall production does not strike me as being at all unrealistic.

Somehow, these Scandinavian writers and directors have found a way of getting underneath the true skin of people much more adeptly than do their American and British counterparts. This is 10 hours of serious drama - not some sensational piece of exaggerated garbage about the ladyboys of Pattaya.

May I suggest you watch the series, and then by all means, write your critique.

[Mobi]

Slightly off topic but has anyone seen the recent Swedish TV Series, 30 Degrees in February? (10 episodes).

It's a fascinating interweaving of three separate stories about unhappy Swedes who come to Thailand to find happiness.

Yes, there are a few stereotypes (Swedes and Thais) and you can pick holes and criticise some of the plot-lines, but it actually gets better as it goes along.

It's never easy to watch - it's quite dark in places - with few, if any, redeeming characters - Swedish or Thai. But it does leave you with a reasonable appreciation of what certain aspects of life in Thailand are all about - the corruption, the easy lies and deceptions, the ignorance of Thai culture, the drinking cultures of both Thais and Swedes, and the prejudices of both Thais and Swedes. The characters probably all deserve their respective fates.

Clearly a low budget production, but the direction, cinematography and acting are excellent - from both the Swedes and Thais. There are some utterly believable characters. I get the impression that few - if any of the cast - are professional actors, but I may be wrong on this. It is all that one might expect from the excellent Scandi TV treadmill.

You can get it with English subtitles with the original dialogue being a mix of Swedish, Thai and English.

Anyone thinking of settling in Thailand should probably watch it as it will be an eye opener.

A tv series about Thailand, or any other country for that matter, should never been taken as a criterion about how life in that country really is.

A tv series will always project the view from the producer.

I have seen tv series where it looked like Pattaya was inhabited with lady boys only, or another where it was made to look as if bar girls were actually slaves who were forced to sell their bodies for 100 Baht a night.

Anyone who has ever visited Thailand knows better of course.

The thing is that the grass is always greener at the other side, but the reality is many times completely different, and especially in the case of Thailand.

Except for the good weather and cheap sex, and even the latter is actually a hidden snake in the grass, there is not much left that is in the favor of Thailand once you have left the tourist ghetto and have to deal with daily life.

Yes of course you are correct. But I wouldn't have recommended this TV series if I didn’t feel it had something useful to offer.

I first came to Thailand in 1974 and have been coming and going ever since, including living here for the best part of 20 years (in two spells) and working for eight of those years, and I can speak passable Thai.

I have also been married to five Thai women - not all at once I hasten to add.

So I think I do have some knowledge of the country and its people and the foreigners who come to live here, and in my humble opinion I believe this TV series does have something to add to the general discussion.

As I said in my earlier post, there are plot flaws and some obvious stereotypes, but the overall production does not strike me as being at all unrealistic.

Somehow, these Scandinavian writers and directors have found a way of getting underneath the true skin of people much more adeptly than do their American and British counterparts. This is 10 hours of serious drama - not some sensational piece of exaggerated garbage about the ladyboys of Pattaya.

May I suggest you watch the series, and then by all means, write your critique.

[Mobi]

Slightly off topic but has anyone seen the recent Swedish TV Series, 30 Degrees in February? (10 episodes).

It's a fascinating interweaving of three separate stories about unhappy Swedes who come to Thailand to find happiness.

Yes, there are a few stereotypes (Swedes and Thais) and you can pick holes and criticise some of the plot-lines, but it actually gets better as it goes along.

It's never easy to watch - it's quite dark in places - with few, if any, redeeming characters - Swedish or Thai. But it does leave you with a reasonable appreciation of what certain aspects of life in Thailand are all about - the corruption, the easy lies and deceptions, the ignorance of Thai culture, the drinking cultures of both Thais and Swedes, and the prejudices of both Thais and Swedes. The characters probably all deserve their respective fates.

Clearly a low budget production, but the direction, cinematography and acting are excellent - from both the Swedes and Thais. There are some utterly believable characters. I get the impression that few - if any of the cast - are professional actors, but I may be wrong on this. It is all that one might expect from the excellent Scandi TV treadmill.

You can get it with English subtitles with the original dialogue being a mix of Swedish, Thai and English.

Anyone thinking of settling in Thailand should probably watch it as it will be an eye opener.

A tv series about Thailand, or any other country for that matter, should never been taken as a criterion about how life in that country really is.

A tv series will always project the view from the producer.

I have seen tv series where it looked like Pattaya was inhabited with lady boys only, or another where it was made to look as if bar girls were actually slaves who were forced to sell their bodies for 100 Baht a night.

Anyone who has ever visited Thailand knows better of course.

The thing is that the grass is always greener at the other side, but the reality is many times completely different, and especially in the case of Thailand.

Except for the good weather and cheap sex, and even the latter is actually a hidden snake in the grass, there is not much left that is in the favor of Thailand once you have left the tourist ghetto and have to deal with daily life.

Yes of course you are correct. But I wouldn't have recommended this TV series if I didn’t feel it had something useful to offer.

I first came to Thailand in 1974 and have been coming and going ever since, including living here for the best part of 20 years (in two spells) and working for eight of those years, and I can speak passable Thai.

I have also been married to five Thai women - not all at once I hasten to add.

So I think I do have some knowledge of the country and its people and the foreigners who come to live here, and in my humble opinion I believe this TV series does have something to add to the general discussion.

As I said in my earlier post, there are plot flaws and some obvious stereotypes, but the overall production does not strike me as being at all unrealistic.

Somehow, these Scandinavian writers and directors have found a way of getting underneath the true skin of people much more adeptly than do their American and British counterparts. This is 10 hours of serious drama - not some sensational piece of exaggerated garbage about the ladyboys of Pattaya.

May I suggest you watch the series, and then by all means, write your critique.

[AloisAmrein]

Some years ago I was checking out if Thailand would be a good country for residence after retirement. My wife is Thai. Finally I and her came to the conclusion, that it is not a good country for farangs, even married with Thai. Racist laws for farangs, big bureaucracy for visas and permits, low road safety, very limited shopping opportunities for Western food in most areas, growing criminality in some areas, low standard of housing at high prices. All this led to the conclusion, that live in other countries is much easier and much better. Thailand did not fulfill the test.

[lostoday]

Some years ago I was checking out if Thailand would be a good country for residence after retirement. My wife is Thai. Finally I and her came to the conclusion, that it is not a good country for farangs, even married with Thai. Racist laws for farangs, big bureaucracy for visas and permits, low road safety, very limited shopping opportunities for Western food in most areas, growing criminality in some areas, low standard of housing at high prices. All this led to the conclusion, that live in other countries is much easier and much better. Thailand did not fulfill the test.

So that is your answer? What is the question? Something like, "I've never lived in Thailand and here's why?"

Well, lets look at your answer. 1. Racist? Farangs get treated better than Thai people, paid more, more choices of women and respected more in general. 2. Retirement visa's take 20 minutes a year and 90 day reports now done on line. 3. Shopping is great in most areas and getting better every day. 4. Crime is dropping as the population gets older.

[TheCruncher]

Some years ago I was checking out if Thailand would be a good country for residence after retirement. My wife is Thai. Finally I and her came to the conclusion, that it is not a good country for farangs, even married with Thai. Racist laws for farangs, big bureaucracy for visas and permits, low road safety, very limited shopping opportunities for Western food in most areas, growing criminality in some areas, low standard of housing at high prices. All this led to the conclusion, that live in other countries is much easier and much better. Thailand did not fulfill the test.

So that is your answer? What is the question? Something like, "I've never lived in Thailand and here's why?"

Well, lets look at your answer. 1. Racist? Farangs get treated better than Thai people, paid more, more choices of women and respected more in general. 2. Retirement visa's take 20 minutes a year and 90 day reports now done on line. 3. Shopping is great in most areas and getting better every day. 4. Crime is dropping as the population gets older.

Actually not worth replying, as it seems you lost much more than just a day.

1. The two tierd pricing that is well alive in Thailand, even with the government, is a reflection of respect in your book I assume?

2. Not everyone is retired, and not everyone is willing to pay 100K a year for an elite visa, and the online reporting is one big disaster. Read the thread about it in the visa section.

3. The poster was talking about western food, where even 15 km outside the tourist ghetto's you have a choice of western food? And then we don't even talk about the tenfold prices for that western food.

4. What has the aging of the population to do with the crime rate? Take a look at the news sections on this forum, and even keep in mind that 80% of the crime isn't reported as instructed by the government.

[NancyL]

Slightly off topic but has anyone seen the recent Swedish TV Series, 30 Degrees in February? (10 episodes).

It's a fascinating interweaving of three separate stories about unhappy Swedes who come to Thailand to find happiness.

Yes, there are a few stereotypes (Swedes and Thais) and you can pick holes and criticise some of the plot-lines, but it actually gets better as it goes along.

It's never easy to watch - it's quite dark in places - with few, if any, redeeming characters - Swedish or Thai. But it does leave you with a reasonable appreciation of what certain aspects of life in Thailand are all about - the corruption, the easy lies and deceptions, the ignorance of Thai culture, the drinking cultures of both Thais and Swedes, and the prejudices of both Thais and Swedes. The characters probably all deserve their respective fates.

Clearly a low budget production, but the direction, cinematography and acting are excellent - from both the Swedes and Thais. There are some utterly believable characters. I get the impression that few - if any of the cast - are professional actors, but I may be wrong on this. It is all that one might expect from the excellent Scandi TV treadmill.

You can get it with English subtitles with the original dialogue being a mix of Swedish, Thai and English.

Anyone thinking of settling in Thailand should probably watch it as it will be an eye opener.

A tv series about Thailand, or any other country for that matter, should never been taken as a criterion about how life in that country really is.

A tv series will always project the view from the producer.

I have seen tv series where it looked like Pattaya was inhabited with lady boys only, or another where it was made to look as if bar girls were actually slaves who were forced to sell their bodies for 100 Baht a night.

Anyone who has ever visited Thailand knows better of course.

The thing is that the grass is always greener at the other side, but the reality is many times completely different, and especially in the case of Thailand.

Except for the good weather and cheap sex, and even the latter is actually a hidden snake in the grass, there is not much left that is in the favor of Thailand once you have left the tourist ghetto and have to deal with daily life.

Yes of course you are correct. But I wouldn't have recommended this TV series if I didn’t feel it had something useful to offer.

I first came to Thailand in 1974 and have been coming and going ever since, including living here for the best part of 20 years (in two spells) and working for eight of those years, and I can speak passable Thai.

I have also been married to five Thai women - not all at once I hasten to add.

So I think I do have some knowledge of the country and its people and the foreigners who come to live here, and in my humble opinion I believe this TV series does have something to add to the general discussion.

As I said in my earlier post, there are plot flaws and some obvious stereotypes, but the overall production does not strike me as being at all unrealistic.

Somehow, these Scandinavian writers and directors have found a way of getting underneath the true skin of people much more adeptly than do their American and British counterparts. This is 10 hours of serious drama - not some sensational piece of exaggerated garbage about the ladyboys of Pattaya.

May I suggest you watch the series, and then by all means, write your critique.

Thanks for the recommendations. I found the series on YouTube -- "30 degrees in February" . I've watched just two episodes, but I'm hooked and will probably watch the rest when I have time. Yes, it was a little slow to start, but now that the main characters are in Thailand for the second episode, it's unfolding nicely. I especially like the way they have some female foreigners as lead players -- both young and old -- and explore their reasons for coming to Thailand. It seems the writers are aiming to go beyond the stereotype that the only reason westerners come to Thailand is because of Thai women. For sure, there is one character who came for that reason, but not just for cheap sex with multiple partners. He's looking for a relationship, which probably makes him even more vulnerable.

Spoiler alert: The show is ticking off the boxes for some of the common scams. During the second episode, the poor fellow looking for a relationship falls for the "sick mother needing an operation" scam and when his bar-girl friend revealed the price of the operation to him, I let out an loud gasp, waking my poor husband who was trying to sleep while I watched this show on my computer with headphones! Needless to say, Hubby wasn't happy when he found out there wasn't a snake in the bed or something and neither was the character in the show when he found out he'd been scammed 20 minutes after he did the bank transfer!

Edited May 6, 2015 by NancyL

[lostoday]

Some years ago I was checking out if Thailand would be a good country for residence after retirement. My wife is Thai. Finally I and her came to the conclusion, that it is not a good country for farangs, even married with Thai. Racist laws for farangs, big bureaucracy for visas and permits, low road safety, very limited shopping opportunities for Western food in most areas, growing criminality in some areas, low standard of housing at high prices. All this led to the conclusion, that live in other countries is much easier and much better. Thailand did not fulfill the test.

So that is your answer? What is the question? Something like, "I've never lived in Thailand and here's why?"

Well, lets look at your answer. 1. Racist? Farangs get treated better than Thai people, paid more, more choices of women and respected more in general. 2. Retirement visa's take 20 minutes a year and 90 day reports now done on line. 3. Shopping is great in most areas and getting better every day. 4. Crime is dropping as the population gets older.

Actually not worth replying, as it seems you lost much more than just a day.

1. The two tierd pricing that is well alive in Thailand, even with the government, is a reflection of respect in your book I assume?

2. Not everyone is retired, and not everyone is willing to pay 100K a year for an elite visa, and the online reporting is one big disaster. Read the thread about it in the visa section.

3. The poster was talking about western food, where even 15 km outside the tourist ghetto's you have a choice of western food? And then we don't even talk about the tenfold prices for that western food.

4. What has the aging of the population to do with the crime rate? Take a look at the news sections on this forum, and even keep in mind that 80% of the crime isn't reported as instructed by the government.

1. The two tier pricing system effects less than 1% of items for sale in Thailand so is of no concern to any reasonable person (health care being the possible exception but too long to discuss here)

2. The post I was referring to was about a retired person. (Some years ago I was checking out if Thailand would be a good country for residence after retirement.)

3. Food is food. Pork is pork. Chicken is chicken and vegetables are vegetables. Western food is as close and reasonable to me as is a pan and a gas stove. How dumb do you have to be not to know how to cook?

4. Thailand has an aging population that will result in a lower crime rate. Thai Visa forums are for entertainment purpose only. No one really takes them seriously and if you do would you file my 90 day report at the local 7/11.

[TheCruncher]

Some years ago I was checking out if Thailand would be a good country for residence after retirement. My wife is Thai. Finally I and her came to the conclusion, that it is not a good country for farangs, even married with Thai. Racist laws for farangs, big bureaucracy for visas and permits, low road safety, very limited shopping opportunities for Western food in most areas, growing criminality in some areas, low standard of housing at high prices. All this led to the conclusion, that live in other countries is much easier and much better. Thailand did not fulfill the test.

So that is your answer? What is the question? Something like, "I've never lived in Thailand and here's why?"

Well, lets look at your answer. 1. Racist? Farangs get treated better than Thai people, paid more, more choices of women and respected more in general. 2. Retirement visa's take 20 minutes a year and 90 day reports now done on line. 3. Shopping is great in most areas and getting better every day. 4. Crime is dropping as the population gets older.

Actually not worth replying, as it seems you lost much more than just a day.

1. The two tierd pricing that is well alive in Thailand, even with the government, is a reflection of respect in your book I assume?

2. Not everyone is retired, and not everyone is willing to pay 100K a year for an elite visa, and the online reporting is one big disaster. Read the thread about it in the visa section.

3. The poster was talking about western food, where even 15 km outside the tourist ghetto's you have a choice of western food? And then we don't even talk about the tenfold prices for that western food.

4. What has the aging of the population to do with the crime rate? Take a look at the news sections on this forum, and even keep in mind that 80% of the crime isn't reported as instructed by the government.

1. The two tier pricing system effects less than 1% of items for sale in Thailand so is of no concern to any reasonable person (health care being the possible exception but too long to discuss here)

2. The post I was referring to was about a retired person. (Some years ago I was checking out if Thailand would be a good country for residence after retirement.)

3. Food is food. Pork is pork. Chicken is chicken and vegetables are vegetables. Western food is as close and reasonable to me as is a pan and a gas stove. How dumb do you have to be not to know how to cook?

4. Thailand has an aging population that will result in a lower crime rate. Thai Visa forums are for entertainment purpose only. No one really takes them seriously and if you do would you file my 90 day report at the local 7/11.

1. So you have statistics about how much two tier pricing is actually happening. Link please

2. The thread is about westerners as a whole, not about retired person only

3. Please provide instructions how to make a French cheeseor cut an Australian beef tenderloin from a local cow.

4. There is a thread in the news forum today that the number of inmates doubled between 2010 and 2014, not really a sign of lower crime rate.