Israel veterans group alleges Israeli misconduct in Gaza war

[BKKBobby]

You must be extremely ignorant, if you do not know that modern day Palestinians have little to do do with the Philistines. It is not exactly as secret, but, as usual, you want to nit-pick about sources when it is already common knowledge. The Philistines were an Aegean people - more closely related to the Greeks and with no connection ethnically, linguisticly or historically with Arabia.

I didnt mention Philistines. Duh...

[Ulysses G.]

The vast majority of the Palestinian arabs are descendants of arabs that were already living there pre-Zionist movement.

So you say - without any evidence as usual - but that has nothing to do with the fact that the Jews were in Palestine long before the Palestinian Arabs. Do you actually read threads before replying to them?

Edited May 12, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Seastallion]

But lets play along with the "source"....

You must be extremely ignorant, if you do not know that modern day Palestinians have little to do do with the Philistines. It is not exactly as secret, but, as usual, you want to nit-pick about sources when it is already common knowledge. The Philistines were an Aegean people - more closely related to the Greeks and with no connection ethnically, linguisticly or historically with Arabia and the Palestinians referred to themselves as Arabs - not Palestinians - until very recently. .

Call me ignorant and nitpicking? Yet your own source, which I quoted in my post which you quote, edited, is quite clear....""Recent genetic studies have confirmed that the ancestries of Jewish and Arabic inhabitants of Palestine are extremely similar. Geneticists have concluded that the people living in these regions share a common ancestry, through people groups continually living in the Palestine territory"."

Who mentioned Philistines? This is about one member's assertion that the Jews are indigenous, and the implied extension that the (present day) Palestinians are not.

A case of the cast iron pot calling the stainless steel kettle black.

[Seastallion]

But lets play along with the "source"....

You must be extremely ignorant, if you do not know that modern day Palestinians have little to do do with the Philistines. It is not exactly as secret, but, as usual, you want to nit-pick about sources when it is already common knowledge. The Philistines were an Aegean people - more closely related to the Greeks and with no connection ethnically, linguisticly or historically with Arabia and the Palestinians referred to themselves as Arabs - not Palestinians - until very recently. .

You call it nitpicking the source when you cite a religious and plainly biased website? That's not nitpicking, that's simple common sense.

Why do you persist with ridiculous sources, plagiarism, or outright untruths?

[Ulysses G.]

I don't worry too much about sources when something is common knowledge and I'm not sure that there is such thing as a source that you won't nit-pick about anyway. You are short on facts and long on nit-picking.

Who mentioned Philistines?

The person who said that,"There were people in the Levant long before Jews arrived", which I quoted before answering it. It seems that you do not read threads before replying to them either.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[BKKBobby]

I don't worry too much about sources when something is common knowledge and I'm not sure that there is such thing as a source that you won't nit-pick about anyway. You are short on facts and long on nit-picking.

You cherrypick your sources so they fit your worldview.

Common knowledge? No it isnt.

Take off the tin foil hat.

[JingerBen]

I don't worry too much about sources when something is common knowledge and I'm not sure that there is such thing as a source that you won't nit-pick about anyway. You are short on facts and long on nit-picking.

Stick to verifiable sources and forget "...common knowledge..." because it is often wrong.

[Seastallion]

I don't worry too much about sources when something is common knowledge and I'm not sure that there is such thing as a source that you won't nit-pick about anyway. You are short on facts and long on nit-picking.

Who mentioned Philistines?

The person who said that,"There were people in the Levant long before Jews arrived", which I quoted before answering it. It seems that you do not read threads before replying to them either.

But you talked about Philistines to try to refute my post....and whatsmore, you edit my post to which you are replying, nitpicking minor non-points and ignoring the pertinent points.

Give up, you'd look wiser.

[Ulysses G.]

I don't worry too much about sources when something is common knowledge and I'm not sure that there is such thing as a source that you won't nit-pick about anyway. You are short on facts and long on nit-picking.

Common knowledge? No it isnt.

According to the British Dictionary, it is common knowledge. Are you going to nitpick about that source too?

British Dictionary definitions for phil-is-tine:

A member of the non-Semitic people who inhabited ancient Philistia

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/philistine

[JingerBen]

I don't worry too much about sources when something is common knowledge and I'm not sure that there is such thing as a source that you won't nit-pick about anyway. You are short on facts and long on nit-picking.

Who mentioned Philistines?

The person who said that,"There were people in the Levant long before Jews arrived", which I quoted before answering it. It seems that you do not read threads before replying to them either.

But you talked about Philistines to try to refute my post....and whatsmore, you edit my post to which you are replying, nitpicking minor non-points and ignoring the pertinent points.

Give up, you'd look wiser.

555... he would, wouldn't he?

[Ulysses G.]

I don't worry too much about sources when something is common knowledge and I'm not sure that there is such thing as a source that you won't nit-pick about anyway. You are short on facts and long on nit-picking.

Who mentioned Philistines?

The person who said that,"There were people in the Levant long before Jews arrived", which I quoted before answering it. It seems that you do not read threads before replying to them either.

But you talked about Philistines to try to refute my post....

Actually YOU jumped into the conversation about the Philistines to do do your source Gestapo thing about something that is common knowledge. NOTHING you could do could make you look wise, so you are the one who needs follow your own advice and give it up.

[Linky]

He does all the time. Deflect from the subject. Israel and war crimes...blame everyone else.

[BKKBobby]

I don't worry too much about sources when something is common knowledge and I'm not sure that there is such thing as a source that you won't nit-pick about anyway. You are short on facts and long on nit-picking.

Common knowledge? No it isnt.

According to the British Dictionary, it is common knowledge. Are you going to nitpick about that source too?

British Dictionary definitions for phil-is-tine:

A member of the non-Semitic people who inhabited ancient Philistia

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/philistine

We are talking about the <insert name> Arabs that were living in Palestine, pre-Zionist movement, not The Philistines, forget about The Philistines. Palestine had a Arab majority for quite sometime before the jews started coming back. Are you stuck in Biblical times? Edited May 12, 2015 by BKKBobby

[Ulysses G.]

Complain to your "Zionist"-hating comrade who claimed that,"There were people in the Levant long before Jews arrived".

Edited May 12, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Seastallion]

I don't worry too much about sources when something is common knowledge and I'm not sure that there is such thing as a source that you won't nit-pick about anyway. You are short on facts and long on nit-picking.

Who mentioned Philistines?

The person who said that,"There were people in the Levant long before Jews arrived", which I quoted before answering it. It seems that you do not read threads before replying to them either.

But you talked about Philistines to try to refute my post....

Actually YOU jumped into the conversation about the Philistines to do do your source Gestapo thing about something that is common knowledge. NOTHING you could do could make you look wise, so you are the one who needs follow your own advice and give it up.

Your circular logic (more accurately lack-of-logic) is tiresome.

You quoted a source, which source I also quoted to show the genetic similarities of the Palestinian people, Jew and Arab. You the talk about nitpicking sources, introduce new subjects into our dialogue, and in every post, edit my words to just answer nit-pick points.

You still can not refute my points.

What's that famous quote about bickering with idiots? Seems I'd be wisest to discontinue this discourse.

I'll say no more.

[Thorgal]

The Hebrews came around 1800 BC into the land of Canaan, populated with Canaanites who came into the region around 3000 BC. The water distribution system of todays Jerusalem is made by Canaanites in 1800 BC. Please google the findings of archeologists Dr. Ronny Reich and Eli Shuikrun.

If this is not determinated enough we can shift to the revealings of DNA genetist Ariella Oppenheim, who discovered that Palestinian Arabs and Israeli Arabs represent the modern descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times.

[Ulysses G.]

What's that famous quote about bickering with idiots?

That certainly applies to you and your usual inflammatory posts. You are incapable of winning an argument, so rely on throwing around baseless insults as your own personal booby prize.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[The manic]

The Arabs were hostile to Jews a long time before the creation of Israel. The Muftah of Bethlehem, yasser atrafat's uncle met with Nazi leaders in the 30s to plan concentration camps for the Jews. The Koran is anti Jewish. The Pals as a race are a fiction as is the state. There is no such place as Palestine.

[BKKBobby]

What's that famous quote about bickering with idiots?

That certainly applies to you and your usual inflammatory posts. You are incapable of winning an argument, so rely on throwing around baseless insults as your own personal booby prize.

You suggest that everyone with a standard view on the history of Palestine/Israel are muslims or jew/Zionist-haters, that says something about you, tin foil hat man. The only people that like your Israel-posts are far-right Americans and people that are biased to the jews. Edited May 12, 2015 by BKKBobby

[Jingthing]

The Arabs were hostile to Jews a long time before the creation of Israel. The Muftah of Bethlehem, yasser atrafat's uncle met with Nazi leaders in the 30s to plan concentration camps for the Jews. The Koran is anti Jewish. The Pals as a race are a fiction as is the state. There is no such place as Palestine.

The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, by far the most powerful Palestinian Arab of his time not only met with Hitler, he was exiled in Berlin during the war, and obtained a promise from Hitler to go into the Palestine region and effect his final solution to the Jews there (total genocide) when he got the chance. But then the Nazis starting losing the war and didn't have the priority to do that. He also promoted genocide of European Jews and he was fully informed about the death camps. Yes, he was afraid more Jews would migrate to the Palestine region, and he was within reasonable rights to oppose that as the leader of the Palestinian Arabs ... but not to the level of promoting total genocide.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Jingthing

[chuckd]

What's that famous quote about bickering with idiots?

That certainly applies to you and your usual inflammatory posts. You are incapable of winning an argument, so rely on throwing around baseless insults as your own personal booby prize.

You suggest that everyone with a standard view on the history of Palestine/Israel are muslims or jew/Zionist-haters, that says something about you, tin foil hat man. The only people that like your Israel-posts are far-right Americans and people that are biased to the jews.

" The only people that like your Israel-posts are far-right Americans and people that are biased to the jews."

That sentence alone explains a lot about you and your personal convictions about the Jews.

[BKKBobby]

What's that famous quote about bickering with idiots?

That certainly applies to you and your usual inflammatory posts. You are incapable of winning an argument, so rely on throwing around baseless insults as your own personal booby prize.

You suggest that everyone with a standard view on the history of Palestine/Israel are muslims or jew/Zionist-haters, that says something about you, tin foil hat man. The only people that like your Israel-posts are far-right Americans and people that are biased to the jews.

" The only people that like your Israel-posts are far-right Americans and people that are biased to the jews."

That sentence alone explains a lot about you and your personal convictions about the Jews.

Whatever Charles, old chap.

[Jingthing]

Feel the love.

Anyway, back to topic, here is an interesting and more balanced analysis of the ideology behind Breaking the Silence.

It seems pretty reasonable.

In cases of actual "war crimes" prosecute those cases by all means.

But the larger agenda of castrating the IDF and intentionally sacrifice Israeli side lives, highly questionable.

War is not a garden party.

If Hamas really doesn't want to deal with the great strength of the IDF in future, stop rearming and preparing for the next attacks on Israel, change the genocidal charter, accept the existence of Israel, stop educating the children in anti-Jewish racism. But they don't want to prevent the next conflict ... they are already rearming.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/breaking-the-silence-bids-to-place-idf-hamas-on-level-field/

The NGO’s most recent report, at its core, seeks to change how Israel wages war.

Breaking the Silence, which on Tuesday is hosting a public launch of the report in Tel Aviv, largely expects Israel to value and seek to preserve the lives of the citizens of Gaza and limit collateral damage just as it would if its own civilians were being held by Hamas — an approach that would mean more Israeli soldiers would pay with their lives, fewer Palestinian lives would be lost, and Israel’s ability to bring its military might to bear against Hamas would be drastically reduced.

War, in that context, would look a lot like a hostage-rescue mission, based almost exclusively on small arms fire. The strongest army in the Middle East and the terror group that controls Gaza would be facing off on a largely level field.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Jingthing

[Scott]

I note that this discussion is going seriously off-topic and that a few members are starting to make rather nasty comments at others. I would suggest this stop.

I don't have a problem with the discussion developing, but I do when the unnecessary bickering and arguing starts.

[Seastallion]

Feel the love.

Anyway, back to topic, here is an interesting and more balanced analysis of the ideology behind Breaking the Silence.

It seems pretty reasonable.

In cases of actual "war crimes" prosecute those cases by all means.

But the larger agenda of castrating the IDF and intentionally sacrifice Israeli side lives, highly questionable.

War is not a garden party.

If Hamas really doesn't want to deal with the great strength of the IDF in future, stop rearming and preparing for the next attacks on Israel, change the genocidal charter, accept the existence of Israel, stop educating the children in anti-Jewish racism. But they don't want to prevent the next conflict ... they are already rearming.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/breaking-the-silence-bids-to-place-idf-hamas-on-level-field/

The NGO’s most recent report, at its core, seeks to change how Israel wages war.

Breaking the Silence, which on Tuesday is hosting a public launch of the report in Tel Aviv, largely expects Israel to value and seek to preserve the lives of the citizens of Gaza and limit collateral damage just as it would if its own civilians were being held by Hamas — an approach that would mean more Israeli soldiers would pay with their lives, fewer Palestinian lives would be lost, and Israel’s ability to bring its military might to bear against Hamas would be drastically reduced.

War, in that context, would look a lot like a hostage-rescue mission, based almost exclusively on small arms fire. The strongest army in the Middle East and the terror group that controls Gaza would be facing off on a largely level field.

Bold emphasis mine....

Cry me a river! Oh no....when the last total death toll ratio was circa 40 to 1, and the child death toll ratio HUNDREDS to one, and someone is trying to reduce that ratio, it's seen here as despicable!????Trying to "value" human life? Oh dear.

[mania]

It is good that things like this report by an Israeli Veterans group gets press time.

It is also good that such folks that compiled this report exist in spite of suppression by their own.

That they will not be prosecuted is probably a given but....Still it is good that

this information gets out. Because even though their own government which condones such

actions will not prosecute them ( as they themselves are to blame) the world eventually will in one form or another.

To argue these facts with the cadets of the JDL is equivalent to trying to fit

a camel thru the eye of a needle. Realize the onslaught of false justifications will

always be there & just ignore it ....there is no point in trying IMO

Edited May 13, 2015 by mania

[ggold]

It is good that things like this report by an Israeli Veterans group gets press time.

It is also good that such folks that compiled this report exist in spite of suppression by their own.

That they will not be prosecuted is probably a given but....Still it is good that

this information gets out. Because even though their own government which condones such

actions will not prosecute them ( as they themselves are to blame) the world eventually will in one form or another.

To argue these facts with the cadets of the JDL is equivalent to trying to fit

a camel thru the eye of a needle. Realize the onslaught of false justifications will

always be there & just ignore it ....there is no point in trying IMO

It is also good that such folks that compiled this report exist in spite of suppression by their own.

What suppression, It was reported in the press. Israel has Press freedom. How is that suppression?

The fact is no evidence was provided by the veterans group. But where are the voices of Palestinians who did not agree with Hamas's methods?

To argue these facts with the cadets of the JDL is equivalent to trying to fit a camel thru the eye of a needle.

The same could be said for the Arab supporters, who can't accept facts when presented to them or try childishly to re write history to support their argument!

The fact is you will be able to hear about dissenting views from within Israel because Israel has Freedom of the Press. The fact is you will never hear a dissenting voice from the Arabs because they do not have the same Press freedoms.

But even trying to make the haters accept that fact is like trying to fit a camel through the eye of a needle!

According to the haters now Israel is even suppressing their own, as you seem to suggest. Are you able to make a comment without trying to twist it into something it is not?

Are you not the camel trying to fit into the eye of this needle?

[DeaconJohn]

It is good that things like this report by an Israeli Veterans group gets press time.

It is also good that such folks that compiled this report exist in spite of suppression by their own.

That they will not be prosecuted is probably a given but....Still it is good that

this information gets out. Because even though their own government which condones such

actions will not prosecute them ( as they themselves are to blame) the world eventually will in one form or another.

To argue these facts with the cadets of the JDL is equivalent to trying to fit

a camel thru the eye of a needle. Realize the onslaught of false justifications will

always be there & just ignore it ....there is no point in trying IMO

Excellent short summary of the topic.

That should be the last word on the subject - but it won't , the resident Zionists will have the last word.

[Seastallion]

It is good that things like this report by an Israeli Veterans group gets press time.

It is also good that such folks that compiled this report exist in spite of suppression by their own.

That they will not be prosecuted is probably a given but....Still it is good that

this information gets out. Because even though their own government which condones such

actions will not prosecute them ( as they themselves are to blame) the world eventually will in one form or another.

To argue these facts with the cadets of the JDL is equivalent to trying to fit

a camel thru the eye of a needle. Realize the onslaught of false justifications will

always be there & just ignore it ....there is no point in trying IMO

It is also good that such folks that compiled this report exist in spite of suppression by their own.

What suppression, It was reported in the press. Israel has Press freedom. How is that suppression?

The fact is no evidence was provided by the veterans group. But where are the voices of Palestinians who did not agree with Hamas's methods?

To argue these facts with the cadets of the JDL is equivalent to trying to fit a camel thru the eye of a needle.

The same could be said for the Arab supporters, who can't accept facts when presented to them or try childishly to re write history to support their argument!

The fact is you will be able to hear about dissenting views from within Israel because Israel has Freedom of the Press. The fact is you will never hear a dissenting voice from the Arabs because they do not have the same Press freedoms.

But even trying to make the haters accept that fact is like trying to fit a camel through the eye of a needle!

According to the haters now Israel is even suppressing their own, as you seem to suggest. Are you able to make a comment without trying to twist it into something it is not?

Are you not the camel trying to fit into the eye of this needle?

Israel does not treat whistle-blowers nicely at all.

Mordechai Vanunu is the first example that springs to mind.

Here's another one....ever heard of the Shuja'iyya massacre from last year? Eran Efrati is the soldier arrested.

https://globalvoicesonline.org/2014/08/03/israeli-army-whistle-blower-leaks-account-of-revenge-attacks-against-civilians-by-israeli-troops-in-gazas-shujaiyya/

[ggold]

Seastallion wrote:-

Israel does not treat whistle-blowers nicely at all.

Mordechai Vanunu is the first example that springs to mind.

Here's another one....ever heard of the Shuja'iyya massacre from last year? Eran Efrati is the soldier arrested.

https://globalvoices...azas-shujaiyya/