Officials may face punishment if allow human trafficking activity to take place

[Bluespunk]

Again I find myself at a loss when it comes to read the English article and compare it with a Thai edition but I come to understand while based on the English edition the comments here give a negative view of what the PM has said.

It seems to be the belief that the expression official responsible means that they had an involvement in the trafficking operations, but that isnt the case. What it means is that officials responsible for a region a camp will be found will be relocated and the important bit when they can be linked to the operations will face criminal charges.

I think that is everything a fair legal justice system can promise and still here I find it is not enough when it comes to Thai officials in the view of the ex-pats. Human trafficking isnt a problem confined to Thailand but also is happening in Europe and if people found being involved they get punished by the courts, the same what the Thai government intends and is going to do. The difference to Europe is that officials in locations where trafficking goes on but can not be linked to that operation have a right to stay on without the threat of being moved to different parts of the country. In the views of most ex-pats here Thailand would have to exceed the punishment that in Europe is regarded as fair and square and I start to wonder why?

"It seems to be the belief that the expression official responsible means that they had an involvement in the trafficking operations, but that isnt the case. What it means is that officials responsible for a region a camp will be found will be relocated and the important bit when they can be linked to the operations will face criminal charges."

If they are responsible for a region where trafficking camps are found they should be dismissed. If later found to be responsible they should be gaoled. Those whose incompetence allowed them to exist should find a different career.

If camps and trafficking on the scale being alleged here were allowed to exist for years in Europe, those who allowed it to happen would be dismissed. Trafficking does happen and is properly investigated, not always that well but it is done.

I don't know of any trafficking on this scale nor of deaths on this scale happening in my home country but if it happened, people would lose their jobs whether they colluded in them or not.

[Orac]

Aren't these camps in areas that have been under martial law for many years under the supervision of ISOC. If they missed spotting these for so long how on earth can they monitor insurgents operating in the same areas.

[ThaiUser]

Again I find myself at a loss when it comes to read the English article and compare it with a Thai edition but I come to understand while based on the English edition the comments here give a negative view of what the PM has said.

It seems to be the belief that the expression official responsible means that they had an involvement in the trafficking operations, but that isnt the case. What it means is that officials responsible for a region a camp will be found will be relocated and the important bit when they can be linked to the operations will face criminal charges.

I think that is everything a fair legal justice system can promise and still here I find it is not enough when it comes to Thai officials in the view of the ex-pats. Human trafficking isnt a problem confined to Thailand but also is happening in Europe and if people found being involved they get punished by the courts, the same what the Thai government intends and is going to do. The difference to Europe is that officials in locations where trafficking goes on but can not be linked to that operation have a right to stay on without the threat of being moved to different parts of the country. In the views of most ex-pats here Thailand would have to exceed the punishment that in Europe is regarded as fair and square and I start to wonder why?

"It seems to be the belief that the expression official responsible means that they had an involvement in the trafficking operations, but that isnt the case. What it means is that officials responsible for a region a camp will be found will be relocated and the important bit when they can be linked to the operations will face criminal charges."

If they are responsible for a region where trafficking camps are found they should be dismissed. If later found to be responsible they should be gaoled. Those whose incompetence allowed them to exist should find a different career.

If camps and trafficking on the scale being alleged here were allowed to exist for years in Europe, those who allowed it to happen would be dismissed. Trafficking does happen and is properly investigated, not always that well but it is done.

I don't know of any trafficking on this scale nor of deaths on this scale happening in my home country but if it happened, people would lose their jobs whether they colluded in them or not.

I have just returned from the UK after several month of stay over there and found that human trafficking is a problem there too.

Here is a link to an article from 2013:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/davehillblog/2013/oct/20/london-shadow-city-human-trafficking-report-andrew-boff

and official figures show that human trafficking is on the rise there too. Still Boris Johnson is still Mayor of London and fancies himself as the next champion of the Tory Party. London is not situated in a jungle despite voices that claim that London is a jungle; the budget, technology and manpower available to the Met are far better as what Thai agencies have available.

Since I don’t know your home country let me point your view to the Mediterranean were human trafficking has become a crisis that has been ignored until public opinion forced governments (just recently) to take actions and in most cases only show a half hearted approach to solve it.

In Germany (according to a Spiegel report) the police is complaining that a minor change in the law is responsible for an increase in human trafficking forcing female victims into some form off human slavery and their children into the hands of people that don’t care about the women’s children.

In the international media yesterday was a report about Nepal after the earthquake and the risks that human trafficking from that country and the danger it could present to women, children including young boys to be used for sexual exploitations.

If you don’t be aware of it you live in your Thai bubble and only focus on Thailand.

[Bluespunk]

Again I find myself at a loss when it comes to read the English article and compare it with a Thai edition but I come to understand while based on the English edition the comments here give a negative view of what the PM has said.

It seems to be the belief that the expression official responsible means that they had an involvement in the trafficking operations, but that isnt the case. What it means is that officials responsible for a region a camp will be found will be relocated and the important bit when they can be linked to the operations will face criminal charges.

I think that is everything a fair legal justice system can promise and still here I find it is not enough when it comes to Thai officials in the view of the ex-pats. Human trafficking isnt a problem confined to Thailand but also is happening in Europe and if people found being involved they get punished by the courts, the same what the Thai government intends and is going to do. The difference to Europe is that officials in locations where trafficking goes on but can not be linked to that operation have a right to stay on without the threat of being moved to different parts of the country. In the views of most ex-pats here Thailand would have to exceed the punishment that in Europe is regarded as fair and square and I start to wonder why?

"It seems to be the belief that the expression official responsible means that they had an involvement in the trafficking operations, but that isnt the case. What it means is that officials responsible for a region a camp will be found will be relocated and the important bit when they can be linked to the operations will face criminal charges."

If they are responsible for a region where trafficking camps are found they should be dismissed. If later found to be responsible they should be gaoled. Those whose incompetence allowed them to exist should find a different career.

If camps and trafficking on the scale being alleged here were allowed to exist for years in Europe, those who allowed it to happen would be dismissed. Trafficking does happen and is properly investigated, not always that well but it is done.

I don't know of any trafficking on this scale nor of deaths on this scale happening in my home country but if it happened, people would lose their jobs whether they colluded in them or not.

I have just returned from the UK after several month of stay over there and found that human trafficking is a problem there too.

Here is a link to an article from 2013:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/davehillblog/2013/oct/20/london-shadow-city-human-trafficking-report-andrew-boff

and official figures show that human trafficking is on the rise there too. Still Boris Johnson is still Mayor of London and fancies himself as the next champion of the Tory Party. London is not situated in a jungle despite voices that claim that London is a jungle; the budget, technology and manpower available to the Met are far better as what Thai agencies have available.

Since I don’t know your home country let me point your view to the Mediterranean were human trafficking has become a crisis that has been ignored until public opinion forced governments (just recently) to take actions and in most cases only show a half hearted approach to solve it.

In Germany (according to a Spiegel report) the police is complaining that a minor change in the law is responsible for an increase in human trafficking forcing female victims into some form off human slavery and their children into the hands of people that don’t care about the women’s children.

In the international media yesterday was a report about Nepal after the earthquake and the risks that human trafficking from that country and the danger it could present to women, children including young boys to be used for sexual exploitations.

If you don’t be aware of it you live in your Thai bubble and only focus on Thailand.

Shame you spoiled such a level headed response with that last sentence.

I am aware that trafficking goes on in Europe. I am also aware that the authorities are trying to do something about it.

The scale of what is going on here is on a much higher level.

The camps, the ransoms, the violence do happen everywhere, however the camps recently "discovered" are an indication of how industrial this foul trade has become.

I find it extremely difficult to believe this can happen without some officials colluding in it.

[halloween]

One thing that seems to unite the various factions is the opportunity for a share in the proceeds.

Remember when Tarit was requested to investigate such things and declined - far too busy doing his master's bidding. On Yingluck's Facebook page someone wrote how her government did lots of things to address trafficking. Perhaps they will explain how she missed all these camps and murders on her watch? Unless of course they are brazen enough to suggest this all happened in the last 12 months.

Good effort but would have actually been better if you had mentioned Thaksin's responsibility as well as Yingluck's.Focus on this and next time you could be in the running for the Sriracha John Memorial Prize for the most asinine reference to the Shinawatras where they are entirely irrelevant.

Of course! In the eyes of some Thaksin and his puppet governments never bear any responsibility for wrongdoing or incompetence during their tenure, that only happens to "illegitimate" military and democrat governments.

As for actual involvement in what appears to be a lucrative (if reprehensible) venture, it is known that the "world's smartest businessman" is beyond reproach and would never be involved in such an illegal activity, or insider trading, dodgy share transfers, abuse of authority, G2G rice scams, tax evasion, corrupt conflicts of interest, bail jumping, transfer of public assets, and likely a few other crimes not yet brought to light or I have forgotten.

[ThaiUser]

Again I find myself at a loss when it comes to read the English article and compare it with a Thai edition but I come to understand while based on the English edition the comments here give a negative view of what the PM has said.

It seems to be the belief that the expression official responsible means that they had an involvement in the trafficking operations, but that isnt the case. What it means is that officials responsible for a region a camp will be found will be relocated and the important bit when they can be linked to the operations will face criminal charges.

I think that is everything a fair legal justice system can promise and still here I find it is not enough when it comes to Thai officials in the view of the ex-pats. Human trafficking isnt a problem confined to Thailand but also is happening in Europe and if people found being involved they get punished by the courts, the same what the Thai government intends and is going to do. The difference to Europe is that officials in locations where trafficking goes on but can not be linked to that operation have a right to stay on without the threat of being moved to different parts of the country. In the views of most ex-pats here Thailand would have to exceed the punishment that in Europe is regarded as fair and square and I start to wonder why?

"It seems to be the belief that the expression official responsible means that they had an involvement in the trafficking operations, but that isnt the case. What it means is that officials responsible for a region a camp will be found will be relocated and the important bit when they can be linked to the operations will face criminal charges."

If they are responsible for a region where trafficking camps are found they should be dismissed. If later found to be responsible they should be gaoled. Those whose incompetence allowed them to exist should find a different career.

If camps and trafficking on the scale being alleged here were allowed to exist for years in Europe, those who allowed it to happen would be dismissed. Trafficking does happen and is properly investigated, not always that well but it is done.

I don't know of any trafficking on this scale nor of deaths on this scale happening in my home country but if it happened, people would lose their jobs whether they colluded in them or not.

I have just returned from the UK after several month of stay over there and found that human trafficking is a problem there too.

Here is a link to an article from 2013:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/davehillblog/2013/oct/20/london-shadow-city-human-trafficking-report-andrew-boff

and official figures show that human trafficking is on the rise there too. Still Boris Johnson is still Mayor of London and fancies himself as the next champion of the Tory Party. London is not situated in a jungle despite voices that claim that London is a jungle; the budget, technology and manpower available to the Met are far better as what Thai agencies have available.

Since I don’t know your home country let me point your view to the Mediterranean were human trafficking has become a crisis that has been ignored until public opinion forced governments (just recently) to take actions and in most cases only show a half hearted approach to solve it.

In Germany (according to a Spiegel report) the police is complaining that a minor change in the law is responsible for an increase in human trafficking forcing female victims into some form off human slavery and their children into the hands of people that don’t care about the women’s children.

In the international media yesterday was a report about Nepal after the earthquake and the risks that human trafficking from that country and the danger it could present to women, children including young boys to be used for sexual exploitations.

If you don’t be aware of it you live in your Thai bubble and only focus on Thailand.

Shame you spoiled such a level headed response with that last sentence.

I am aware that trafficking goes on in Europe. I am also aware that the authorities are trying to do something about it.

The scale of what is going on here is on a much higher level.

The camps, the ransoms, the violence do happen everywhere, however the camps recently "discovered" are an indication of how industrial this foul trade has become.

I find it extremely difficult to believe this can happen without some officials colluding in it.

The last sentence was actually made to make people consider that Europe or any other place isn’t Thailand and that the conditions are entirely different.

Let’s take a look at the facts and see if we can at least agree on them. In the region we have an insurgency going on and the terrain in most cases is jungle. From history we know how difficult it is in similar terrain to spot enemies or camps that are built with the intention to hide from view. In Vietnam (similar when it comes to the jungle) camps built by the Vietcong co-existed with US military bases close by without ever being spotted in years and these camps some times did hold prisoners of war.

The US had over 500,000 soldiers stationed in that country and had the support of the South Vietnamese forces. They deforested whole regions using chemicals; they had a helicopter fleet and air surveillance that Thailand can’t match and still they failed to spot camps close to their bases.

Certainly what happened in the south of Thailand is terrible and should be investigated in full and the people that participated in it or having been aware of it without taking actions, no matter what that kind of involvement it was should be punished. But keep in mind that it doesn’t matter who rules in Bangkok and tries solving the problems in that region is facing a Sisyphus task and to accuse them from the outset that they are not willing to tackle the problems in my opinion is wrong.

[jayboy]

One thing that seems to unite the various factions is the opportunity for a share in the proceeds.

Remember when Tarit was requested to investigate such things and declined - far too busy doing his master's bidding. On Yingluck's Facebook page someone wrote how her government did lots of things to address trafficking. Perhaps they will explain how she missed all these camps and murders on her watch? Unless of course they are brazen enough to suggest this all happened in the last 12 months.

Good effort but would have actually been better if you had mentioned Thaksin's responsibility as well as Yingluck's.Focus on this and next time you could be in the running for the Sriracha John Memorial Prize for the most asinine reference to the Shinawatras where they are entirely irrelevant.

Of course! In the eyes of some Thaksin and his puppet governments never bear any responsibility for wrongdoing or incompetence during their tenure, that only happens to "illegitimate" military and democrat governments.

As for actual involvement in what appears to be a lucrative (if reprehensible) venture, it is known that the "world's smartest businessman" is beyond reproach and would never be involved in such an illegal activity, or insider trading, dodgy share transfers, abuse of authority, G2G rice scams, tax evasion, corrupt conflicts of interest, bail jumping, transfer of public assets, and likely a few other crimes not yet brought to light or I have forgotten.

No you completely miss the point and go on in your second para to compound your error.Thaksin and successor Shin influenced governments bear full responsibility for their mistakes (which were many).The foolishness to which you succumb is to respond to every current issue by invoking the past - even as in this instance when it is entirely irrelevant.

[jayboy]

Again I find myself at a loss when it comes to read the English article and compare it with a Thai edition but I come to understand while based on the English edition the comments here give a negative view of what the PM has said.

It seems to be the belief that the expression ‘official responsible’ means that they had an involvement in the trafficking operations, but that isn’t the case. What it means is that officials responsible for a region a camp will be found will be relocated and the important bit when they can be linked to the operations will face criminal charges.

I think that is everything a fair legal justice system can promise and still here I find it is not enough when it comes to Thai officials in the view of the ex-pats. Human trafficking isn’t a problem confined to Thailand but also is happening in Europe and if people found being involved they get punished by the courts, the same what the Thai government intends and is going to do. The difference to Europe is that officials in locations where trafficking goes on but can not be linked to that operation have a right to stay on without the threat of being moved to different parts of the country. In the views of most ex-pats here Thailand would have to exceed the punishment that in Europe is regarded as fair and square and I start to wonder why?

A thoughtful response which I respect.I will be frank however in making a comment on the Europe comparison where as you correctly say human trafficking is also a problem.The suspicion I am afraid is that In Thailand officials and security forces are deeply involved which is not the case in Europe.The reason for this is the pervasive corruption and abuse of human rights in Thailand which is prevalent together with an almost total lack of accountability.Furthermore the justice system in Thailand is weak and often pliable through influence.

I would be delighted if I was proved wrong.

[halloween]

One thing that seems to unite the various factions is the opportunity for a share in the proceeds.

Remember when Tarit was requested to investigate such things and declined - far too busy doing his master's bidding. On Yingluck's Facebook page someone wrote how her government did lots of things to address trafficking. Perhaps they will explain how she missed all these camps and murders on her watch? Unless of course they are brazen enough to suggest this all happened in the last 12 months.

Good effort but would have actually been better if you had mentioned Thaksin's responsibility as well as Yingluck's.Focus on this and next time you could be in the running for the Sriracha John Memorial Prize for the most asinine reference to the Shinawatras where they are entirely irrelevant.

Of course! In the eyes of some Thaksin and his puppet governments never bear any responsibility for wrongdoing or incompetence during their tenure, that only happens to "illegitimate" military and democrat governments.

As for actual involvement in what appears to be a lucrative (if reprehensible) venture, it is known that the "world's smartest businessman" is beyond reproach and would never be involved in such an illegal activity, or insider trading, dodgy share transfers, abuse of authority, G2G rice scams, tax evasion, corrupt conflicts of interest, bail jumping, transfer of public assets, and likely a few other crimes not yet brought to light or I have forgotten.

No you completely miss the point and go on in your second para to compound your error.Thaksin and successor Shin influenced governments bear full responsibility for their mistakes (which were many).The foolishness to which you succumb is to respond to every current issue by invoking the past - even as in this instance when it is entirely irrelevant.

So the smuggling of Rohingya is a totally new enterprise, to you at least. Strangely enough in a 10 second search I find articles on the matter as far back as 2009.

Remind in future to check with you on the relevance of that which i propose to post.

[ThaiUser]

Again I find myself at a loss when it comes to read the English article and compare it with a Thai edition but I come to understand while based on the English edition the comments here give a negative view of what the PM has said.

It seems to be the belief that the expression ‘official responsible’ means that they had an involvement in the trafficking operations, but that isn’t the case. What it means is that officials responsible for a region a camp will be found will be relocated and the important bit when they can be linked to the operations will face criminal charges.

I think that is everything a fair legal justice system can promise and still here I find it is not enough when it comes to Thai officials in the view of the ex-pats. Human trafficking isn’t a problem confined to Thailand but also is happening in Europe and if people found being involved they get punished by the courts, the same what the Thai government intends and is going to do. The difference to Europe is that officials in locations where trafficking goes on but can not be linked to that operation have a right to stay on without the threat of being moved to different parts of the country. In the views of most ex-pats here Thailand would have to exceed the punishment that in Europe is regarded as fair and square and I start to wonder why?

A thoughtful response which I respect.I will be frank however in making a comment on the Europe comparison where as you correctly say human trafficking is also a problem.The suspicion I am afraid is that In Thailand officials and security forces are deeply involved which is not the case in Europe.The reason for this is the pervasive corruption and abuse of human rights in Thailand which is prevalent together with an almost total lack of accountability.Furthermore the justice system in Thailand is weak and often pliable through influence.

I would be delighted if I was proved wrong.

Thanks for your reply and I accept your point of view. Still I feel not at ease with some of the statements you make and where you point out that Thai officials and security forces are deeply involved and that this would not be the case in Europe. In Europe if I look at the UK the reputation of the police has dropped to its lowest level in the public eye and a recent poll suggests that the people in the majority don’t trust the police. I still believe and maybe naive in that belief that the majority of the Thai people are like any other people. That the reputation of the British police force is tarnished by rotten apples in that force and that the same applies to Thai agencies but that the overall officials will follow and apply the law without, as in general represented, as leeches on the country resources.

It took the European Court of Human Rights to overrule cases where justice systems in member countries and governments had violated human rights because their actions and decisions failed to dispense fair justice.

I certainly know about the many ills in my country and hope that in time the situation will improve but in most comments on this forum when addressing these problems it isn’t the voice of reason that speaks but of bias.

[ExPratt]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Thanks for your reply and I accept your point of view. Still I feel not at ease with some of the statements you make and where you point out that Thai officials and security forces are deeply involved and that this would not be the case in Europe. In Europe if I look at the UK the reputation of the police has dropped to its lowest level in the public eye and a recent poll suggests that the people in the majority don’t trust the police. I still believe and maybe naive in that belief that the majority of the Thai people are like any other people. That the reputation of the British police force is tarnished by rotten apples in that force and that the same applies to Thai agencies but that the overall officials will follow and apply the law without, as in general represented, as leeches on the country resources.

I would be delighted if I was proved wrong.

It took the European Court of Human Rights to overrule cases where justice systems in member countries and governments had violated human rights because their actions and decisions failed to dispense fair justice.

I certainly know about the many ills in my country and hope that in time the situation will improve but in most comments on this forum when addressing these problems it isn’t the voice of reason that speaks but of bias.

People dont like the police in the UK London/ Liverpool /Birmingham and most cities and working class areas because they are seen as the Enemy by many. They can be pretty violent , especially at the football matches in the 70 and 80s and I dare say a few of them are corrupt and I mean a few. But you cannot compare what they do to Turning a blind eye or ignoring a Camp holding 500 people who have been trafficked and are being held hostage and murdered. The same as trafficking in the UK , nothing to the scale of barbarity of the discovery in Pedang Basar

[ThaiUser]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Thanks for your reply and I accept your point of view. Still I feel not at ease with some of the statements you make and where you point out that Thai officials and security forces are deeply involved and that this would not be the case in Europe. In Europe if I look at the UK the reputation of the police has dropped to its lowest level in the public eye and a recent poll suggests that the people in the majority don’t trust the police. I still believe and maybe naive in that belief that the majority of the Thai people are like any other people. That the reputation of the British police force is tarnished by rotten apples in that force and that the same applies to Thai agencies but that the overall officials will follow and apply the law without, as in general represented, as leeches on the country resources.

I would be delighted if I was proved wrong.

It took the European Court of Human Rights to overrule cases where justice systems in member countries and governments had violated human rights because their actions and decisions failed to dispense fair justice.

I certainly know about the many ills in my country and hope that in time the situation will improve but in most comments on this forum when addressing these problems it isn’t the voice of reason that speaks but of bias.

People dont like the police in the UK London/ Liverpool /Birmingham and most cities and working class areas because they are seen as the Enemy by many. They can be pretty violent , especially at the football matches in the 70 and 80s and I dare say a few of them are corrupt and I mean a few. But you cannot compare what they do to Turning a blind eye or ignoring a Camp holding 500 people who have been trafficked and are being held hostage and murdered. The same as trafficking in the UK , nothing to the scale of barbarity of the discovery in Pedang Basar

Did I ignore them? I wasn't aware of it and cannot recall that I did. But what I found on a previous article referring to the camp that you suggested the Thai should follow the British approach in Malaysia during the communist insurrection, which you might well know involved war crimes by shooting indiscriminately people and reported by eyewitnesses (British soldiers).

Here you talk about the barbarity that have been committed in the camp and I fully agree on that, but fail to see how you can suggest actions that by far would exceed these barbaric actions.

[Bluespunk]

I have just returned from the UK after several month of stay over there and found that human trafficking is a problem there too.

Here is a link to an article from 2013:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/davehillblog/2013/oct/20/london-shadow-city-human-trafficking-report-andrew-boff

and official figures show that human trafficking is on the rise there too. Still Boris Johnson is still Mayor of London and fancies himself as the next champion of the Tory Party. London is not situated in a jungle despite voices that claim that London is a jungle; the budget, technology and manpower available to the Met are far better as what Thai agencies have available.

Since I don’t know your home country let me point your view to the Mediterranean were human trafficking has become a crisis that has been ignored until public opinion forced governments (just recently) to take actions and in most cases only show a half hearted approach to solve it.

In Germany (according to a Spiegel report) the police is complaining that a minor change in the law is responsible for an increase in human trafficking forcing female victims into some form off human slavery and their children into the hands of people that don’t care about the women’s children.

In the international media yesterday was a report about Nepal after the earthquake and the risks that human trafficking from that country and the danger it could present to women, children including young boys to be used for sexual exploitations.

If you don’t be aware of it you live in your Thai bubble and only focus on Thailand.

Shame you spoiled such a level headed response with that last sentence.

I am aware that trafficking goes on in Europe. I am also aware that the authorities are trying to do something about it.

The scale of what is going on here is on a much higher level.

The camps, the ransoms, the violence do happen everywhere, however the camps recently "discovered" are an indication of how industrial this foul trade has become.

I find it extremely difficult to believe this can happen without some officials colluding in it.

The last sentence was actually made to make people consider that Europe or any other place isn’t Thailand and that the conditions are entirely different.

Let’s take a look at the facts and see if we can at least agree on them. In the region we have an insurgency going on and the terrain in most cases is jungle. From history we know how difficult it is in similar terrain to spot enemies or camps that are built with the intention to hide from view. In Vietnam (similar when it comes to the jungle) camps built by the Vietcong co-existed with US military bases close by without ever being spotted in years and these camps some times did hold prisoners of war.

The US had over 500,000 soldiers stationed in that country and had the support of the South Vietnamese forces. They deforested whole regions using chemicals; they had a helicopter fleet and air surveillance that Thailand can’t match and still they failed to spot camps close to their bases.

Certainly what happened in the south of Thailand is terrible and should be investigated in full and the people that participated in it or having been aware of it without taking actions, no matter what that kind of involvement it was should be punished. But keep in mind that it doesn’t matter who rules in Bangkok and tries solving the problems in that region is facing a Sisyphus task and to accuse them from the outset that they are not willing to tackle the problems in my opinion is wrong.

I never said they weren't willing to tackle the problem.

I said that any one who is responsible for a region where such large scale trafficking and imprisonment of those trafficked and does nothing to stop it, should lose their job, not be relocated.

{As I say I find it very difficult to believe they or those working for them would be unaware of the situation. The situation here is in no way like the situation the Americans put themselves in Vietnam nor their actions there}.

If they are found to be merely incompetent then they should find another career. If involved then to gaol they go.

I would say this be it here, Europe or the Americas. Inaction is inexcusable.

Clearly some people now are acting and they are to be applauded.

[fgmr]

In August 2013, John Sparks, Asia Correspondent for UK Channel 4 News, produced a report "Nightmare island where traffickers imprison Burma's Rohingya". He was referring to the island of Turutao.

Was this report acted on by Thai authorities in Bangkok, as the local police, forest rangers and other officials were either in collusion with these traffickers or preferring to turn a blind eye to events on parts of the island.

I feel that some of the recently discovered deceased may have been saved from being transported to the mainland had there been an immediate response to this report by responsible incorruptible individuals.

[ThaiUser]

I have just returned from the UK after several month of stay over there and found that human trafficking is a problem there too.

Here is a link to an article from 2013:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/davehillblog/2013/oct/20/london-shadow-city-human-trafficking-report-andrew-boff

and official figures show that human trafficking is on the rise there too. Still Boris Johnson is still Mayor of London and fancies himself as the next champion of the Tory Party. London is not situated in a jungle despite voices that claim that London is a jungle; the budget, technology and manpower available to the Met are far better as what Thai agencies have available.

Since I don’t know your home country let me point your view to the Mediterranean were human trafficking has become a crisis that has been ignored until public opinion forced governments (just recently) to take actions and in most cases only show a half hearted approach to solve it.

In Germany (according to a Spiegel report) the police is complaining that a minor change in the law is responsible for an increase in human trafficking forcing female victims into some form off human slavery and their children into the hands of people that don’t care about the women’s children.

In the international media yesterday was a report about Nepal after the earthquake and the risks that human trafficking from that country and the danger it could present to women, children including young boys to be used for sexual exploitations.

If you don’t be aware of it you live in your Thai bubble and only focus on Thailand.

Shame you spoiled such a level headed response with that last sentence.

I am aware that trafficking goes on in Europe. I am also aware that the authorities are trying to do something about it.

The scale of what is going on here is on a much higher level.

The camps, the ransoms, the violence do happen everywhere, however the camps recently "discovered" are an indication of how industrial this foul trade has become.

I find it extremely difficult to believe this can happen without some officials colluding in it.

The last sentence was actually made to make people consider that Europe or any other place isn’t Thailand and that the conditions are entirely different.

Let’s take a look at the facts and see if we can at least agree on them. In the region we have an insurgency going on and the terrain in most cases is jungle. From history we know how difficult it is in similar terrain to spot enemies or camps that are built with the intention to hide from view. In Vietnam (similar when it comes to the jungle) camps built by the Vietcong co-existed with US military bases close by without ever being spotted in years and these camps some times did hold prisoners of war.

The US had over 500,000 soldiers stationed in that country and had the support of the South Vietnamese forces. They deforested whole regions using chemicals; they had a helicopter fleet and air surveillance that Thailand can’t match and still they failed to spot camps close to their bases.

Certainly what happened in the south of Thailand is terrible and should be investigated in full and the people that participated in it or having been aware of it without taking actions, no matter what that kind of involvement it was should be punished. But keep in mind that it doesn’t matter who rules in Bangkok and tries solving the problems in that region is facing a Sisyphus task and to accuse them from the outset that they are not willing to tackle the problems in my opinion is wrong.

I never said they weren't willing to tackle the problem.

I said that any one who is responsible for a region where such large scale trafficking and imprisonment of those trafficked and does nothing to stop it, should lose their job, not be relocated.

{As I say I find it very difficult to believe they or those working for them would be unaware of the situation. The situation here is in no way like the situation the Americans put themselves in Vietnam nor their actions there}.

If they are found to be merely incompetent then they should find another career. If involved then to gaol they go.

I would say this be it here, Europe or the Americas. Inaction is inexcusable.

Clearly some people now are acting and they are to be applauded.

Yes, I agree with you and officials anywhere that show incompetence should leave for a different job.

Also I didn’t say that the situation in the region can be compared with the full fledge war like in Vietnam, I said that the terrain is similar (jungle) and an insurgence doesn’t help police officers or soldiers to venture off to far from there outposts. That applies certainly for the officers and soldiers posted there from other regions of Thailand and who feel that they are operating in a hostile territory where anybody could be your enemy.

I also hope that Malaysia will apply more proactive efforts to ensure that the border on their side is more closely watched which of course would support the efforts of the Thai authorities and help to stop these criminals from operating across borders.

[IAMHERE]

"May" ? "relocated" ?

At least LBs in WS get fined and their names registered.

[ThaiUser]

In August 2013, John Sparks, Asia Correspondent for UK Channel 4 News, produced a report "Nightmare island where traffickers imprison Burma's Rohingya". He was referring to the island of Turutao.

Was this report acted on by Thai authorities in Bangkok, as the local police, forest rangers and other officials were either in collusion with these traffickers or preferring to turn a blind eye to events on parts of the island.

I feel that some of the recently discovered deceased may have been saved from being transported to the mainland had there been an immediate response to this report by responsible incorruptible individuals.

You are correct that the report and the allegations should have been investigated and in a country without major political unrest that might have been the case. Still the situation in Thailand was different and we might recall the demonstrations in Bangkok and the standoff between the Government and demonstrators and that from December 2013 Yingluck Shinawatra was only the Acting Prime Minister looking for new elections to find a way out of the deadlock that occurred in Thai politics.

The Channel 4 report on the Island was only one in a flood of reports coming out of Thailand and mainly focused on the events in Bangkok. Sadly as a Thai I have to say that the instability in Thai politics that had carried on for a decade didn’t help to focus on people that did deserve our attention and help because we regarded the political fight between parties and groups as more important as the human misery our inactions caused. In that respect I will accept that as Thais we all have to carry that responsibility.

[ExPratt]

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Thanks for your reply and I accept your point of view. Still I feel not at ease with some of the statements you make and where you point out that Thai officials and security forces are deeply involved and that this would not be the case in Europe. In Europe if I look at the UK the reputation of the police has dropped to its lowest level in the public eye and a recent poll suggests that the people in the majority don’t trust the police. I still believe and maybe naive in that belief that the majority of the Thai people are like any other people. That the reputation of the British police force is tarnished by rotten apples in that force and that the same applies to Thai agencies but that the overall officials will follow and apply the law without, as in general represented, as leeches on the country resources.

I would be delighted if I was proved wrong.

It took the European Court of Human Rights to overrule cases where justice systems in member countries and governments had violated human rights because their actions and decisions failed to dispense fair justice.

I certainly know about the many ills in my country and hope that in time the situation will improve but in most comments on this forum when addressing these problems it isn’t the voice of reason that speaks but of bias.

People dont like the police in the UK London/ Liverpool /Birmingham and most cities and working class areas because they are seen as the Enemy by many. They can be pretty violent , especially at the football matches in the 70 and 80s and I dare say a few of them are corrupt and I mean a few. But you cannot compare what they do to Turning a blind eye or ignoring a Camp holding 500 people who have been trafficked and are being held hostage and murdered. The same as trafficking in the UK , nothing to the scale of barbarity of the discovery in Pedang Basar

Did I ignore them? I wasn't aware of it and cannot recall that I did. But what I found on a previous article referring to the camp that you suggested the Thai should follow the British approach in Malaysia during the communist insurrection, which you might well know involved war crimes by shooting indiscriminately people and reported by eyewitnesses (British soldiers).

Here you talk about the barbarity that have been committed in the camp and I fully agree on that, but fail to see how you can suggest actions that by far would exceed these barbaric actions.

Yes it was an effective method that prevented Malaysia from being taken over by communists , so I would say it would work against Human Traffickers. Innocent people are dying already at the hands of the traffickers as they were at the hands of The Malaysian Communists . The action to take is notto do Nothing , as someone might get killed, they are already being killed

I didn't mean YOU personally ignored them , I mean people cannot ignore the fact that the camps exists . I respect your opinion but imo the only way to stop this and send a message is with aggressive action , These people do not understand NICE unfortunately

Edited May 6, 2015 by ExPratt

[ThaiUser]

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Thanks for your reply and I accept your point of view. Still I feel not at ease with some of the statements you make and where you point out that Thai officials and security forces are deeply involved and that this would not be the case in Europe. In Europe if I look at the UK the reputation of the police has dropped to its lowest level in the public eye and a recent poll suggests that the people in the majority don’t trust the police. I still believe and maybe naive in that belief that the majority of the Thai people are like any other people. That the reputation of the British police force is tarnished by rotten apples in that force and that the same applies to Thai agencies but that the overall officials will follow and apply the law without, as in general represented, as leeches on the country resources.

I would be delighted if I was proved wrong.

It took the European Court of Human Rights to overrule cases where justice systems in member countries and governments had violated human rights because their actions and decisions failed to dispense fair justice.

I certainly know about the many ills in my country and hope that in time the situation will improve but in most comments on this forum when addressing these problems it isn’t the voice of reason that speaks but of bias.

People dont like the police in the UK London/ Liverpool /Birmingham and most cities and working class areas because they are seen as the Enemy by many. They can be pretty violent , especially at the football matches in the 70 and 80s and I dare say a few of them are corrupt and I mean a few. But you cannot compare what they do to Turning a blind eye or ignoring a Camp holding 500 people who have been trafficked and are being held hostage and murdered. The same as trafficking in the UK , nothing to the scale of barbarity of the discovery in Pedang Basar

Did I ignore them? I wasn't aware of it and cannot recall that I did. But what I found on a previous article referring to the camp that you suggested the Thai should follow the British approach in Malaysia during the communist insurrection, which you might well know involved war crimes by shooting indiscriminately people and reported by eyewitnesses (British soldiers).

Here you talk about the barbarity that have been committed in the camp and I fully agree on that, but fail to see how you can suggest actions that by far would exceed these barbaric actions.

Yes it was an effective method that prevented Malaysia from being taken over by communists , so I would say it would work against Human Traffickers. Innocent people are dying already at the hands of the traffickers as they were at the hands of The Malaysian Communists . The action to take is notto do Nothing , as someone might get killed, they are already being killed

I didn't mean YOU personally ignored them , I mean people cannot ignore the fact that the camps exists . I respect your opinion but imo the only way to stop this and send a message is with aggressive action , These people do not understand NICE unfortunately

The Thai government is taking actions as the news state and the claim they do nothing is invalid. Why they haven’t taken stronger actions until now is another question that certainly needs to be looked into.

Still to apply actions that suggest killing indiscriminately all people that can be found in a region that is experience an insurgency would turn them into the same monsters they want to hunt down. The message that this would be sending to the people not involved is that their own government doesn’t understand the UN treaties and other international treaties they have signed or that their government is beyond the law.

[ExPratt]

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Thanks for your reply and I accept your point of view. Still I feel not at ease with some of the statements you make and where you point out that Thai officials and security forces are deeply involved and that this would not be the case in Europe. In Europe if I look at the UK the reputation of the police has dropped to its lowest level in the public eye and a recent poll suggests that the people in the majority don’t trust the police. I still believe and maybe naive in that belief that the majority of the Thai people are like any other people. That the reputation of the British police force is tarnished by rotten apples in that force and that the same applies to Thai agencies but that the overall officials will follow and apply the law without, as in general represented, as leeches on the country resources.

I would be delighted if I was proved wrong.

It took the European Court of Human Rights to overrule cases where justice systems in member countries and governments had violated human rights because their actions and decisions failed to dispense fair justice.

I certainly know about the many ills in my country and hope that in time the situation will improve but in most comments on this forum when addressing these problems it isn’t the voice of reason that speaks but of bias.

People dont like the police in the UK London/ Liverpool /Birmingham and most cities and working class areas because they are seen as the Enemy by many. They can be pretty violent , especially at the football matches in the 70 and 80s and I dare say a few of them are corrupt and I mean a few. But you cannot compare what they do to Turning a blind eye or ignoring a Camp holding 500 people who have been trafficked and are being held hostage and murdered. The same as trafficking in the UK , nothing to the scale of barbarity of the discovery in Pedang Basar

Did I ignore them? I wasn't aware of it and cannot recall that I did. But what I found on a previous article referring to the camp that you suggested the Thai should follow the British approach in Malaysia during the communist insurrection, which you might well know involved war crimes by shooting indiscriminately people and reported by eyewitnesses (British soldiers).

Here you talk about the barbarity that have been committed in the camp and I fully agree on that, but fail to see how you can suggest actions that by far would exceed these barbaric actions.

Yes it was an effective method that prevented Malaysia from being taken over by communists , so I would say it would work against Human Traffickers. Innocent people are dying already at the hands of the traffickers as they were at the hands of The Malaysian Communists . The action to take is notto do Nothing , as someone might get killed, they are already being killed

I didn't mean YOU personally ignored them , I mean people cannot ignore the fact that the camps exists . I respect your opinion but imo the only way to stop this and send a message is with aggressive action , These people do not understand NICE unfortunately

The Thai government is taking actions as the news state and the claim they do nothing is invalid. Why they haven’t taken stronger actions until now is another question that certainly needs to be looked into.

Still to apply actions that suggest killing indiscriminately all people that can be found in a region that is experience an insurgency would turn them into the same monsters they want to hunt down. The message that this would be sending to the people not involved is that their own government doesn’t understand the UN treaties and other international treaties they have signed or that their government is beyond the law.

I don't think I suggested killing all people indiscriminately, in fact I don't think I suggested killing anyone . Get the army out there patrolling and they wont be setting up any more camps. It doesn't have a to be a second Vietnam, just get off there &lt;deleted&gt; and start looking

[ChrisY1]

This government must capture and prosecute all persons involved.....not just the small time pratts that were exhibited a couple of days ago...

For the international community, and for the betterment of Thailand, Prayuth cannot be seen to pretend to be doing something concrete....he has to prove the fact!

[fgmr]

In August 2013, John Sparks, Asia Correspondent for UK Channel 4 News, produced a report "Nightmare island where traffickers imprison Burma's Rohingya". He was referring to the island of Turutao.

Was this report acted on by Thai authorities in Bangkok, as the local police, forest rangers and other officials were either in collusion with these traffickers or preferring to turn a blind eye to events on parts of the island.

I feel that some of the recently discovered deceased may have been saved from being transported to the mainland had there been an immediate response to this report by responsible incorruptible individuals.

You are correct that the report and the allegations should have been investigated and in a country without major political unrest that might have been the case. Still the situation in Thailand was different and we might recall the demonstrations in Bangkok and the standoff between the Government and demonstrators and that from December 2013 Yingluck Shinawatra was only the Acting Prime Minister looking for new elections to find a way out of the deadlock that occurred in Thai politics.

The Channel 4 report on the Island was only one in a flood of reports coming out of Thailand and mainly focused on the events in Bangkok. Sadly as a Thai I have to say that the instability in Thai politics that had carried on for a decade didnt help to focus on people that did deserve our attention and help because we regarded the political fight between parties and groups as more important as the human misery our inactions caused. In that respect I will accept that as Thais we all have to carry that responsibility.