Clinton challenges Bush on immigration as Republicans shift

[webfact]

Clinton challenges Bush on immigration as Republicans shift
STEVE PEOPLES, Associated Press
KEN THOMAS, Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton has injected new fire into the immigration debate with her call to allow people in the U.S. illegally to gain citizenship, challenging a centerpiece of Republican presidential prospect Jeb Bush's likely candidacy.

The elevated focus on immigration shines new light on the growing willingness of Republican presidential contenders — including past opponents of an immigration overhaul in Congress — to let such immigrants stay in the U.S. Such a position is regarded as "amnesty" by the Republicans' conservative tea party wing, yet it is quietly becoming the majority view in a 2016 Republican presidential class eager to attract Hispanic voters.

Clinton is just as eager to protect the Democrats' advantage with that key voting bloc. "This will be a defining issue in the election," Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook told CNBC on Wednesday.

The day before, Clinton drew a sharp distinction between herself and the Republicans, like Bush, who support a pathway to legal status that stops short of citizenship.

"When they talk about legal status, that is code for second-class status," Clinton charged.

It's unclear how much the distinction between citizenship and legal status matters to Hispanic voters, a growing slice of the electorate nationally and an important factor in presidential swing states such as Florida, Colorado and Nevada. For many, the priority is simply to avoid deportation.

All of the Republicans are eager to avoid the fate of 2012 presidential nominee, Mitt Romney, who earned just 27 percent of the Hispanic vote after endorsing "self-deportation" as a viable policy.

The rhetoric of the Republicans candidates reflects broad support for allowing such immigrants to stay, but only Bush has made that point a focus of his message to voters.

As he does in most public appearances, Bush cited "11 million people that should come out from the shadows and receive earned legal status" at last week's speech to the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference. Such immigrants, he said, should be required to pay taxes, work and not receive government benefits.

Bush's aides view Clinton's comments as a direct criticism and a sign that Democrats are worried about losing Hispanic votes to him. Bush is fluent in Spanish and uses it in his campaign. His wife is from Mexico, and he has lived in Venezuela and Puerto Rico.

Bush wrote in his 2013 book "Immigration Wars" that withholding citizenship would be a suitable penalty for people who have entered the U.S. illegally. But Clint Bolick, his co-author and an adviser, said Bush would sign legislation that confers citizenship as long as he found other parts of the bill acceptable.

On that point, "he's open to compromise," Bolick told The Associated Press recently. Bush aides said Bolick's comments accurately reflect Bush's position.

Meanwhile Bush's Republican rival Marco Rubio has emphasized his own Cuban-American heritage and his family's humble roots. After failing to win support for his own legislation, which would have offered citizenship to immigrants in the country illegally if they met certain conditions, the Florida senator still supports giving them the opportunity to apply for permanent residency as long as they have not broken other laws.

Sen. Rand Paul voted against Rubio's bill but says the millions of people in the country illegally cannot all be sent home.

Even Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, a conservative favorite who has been relatively consistent in opposing what he calls "amnesty," does not close the door on a pathway to legal status.

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, who had endorsed citizenship but changed his mind in March, privately told Republicans in early voting states that he still supports a process to allow legal status. On Wednesday, Walker tweeted that Clinton's "full embrace of amnesty is unfair to hardworking Americans and immigrants who followed the law to achieve these rights."
___

Associated Press writers Thomas Beaumont in Des Moines, Iowa, Nicholas Riccardi in Denver and news survey specialist Emily Swanson contributed to this report.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-05-07

[JDGRUEN]

Neither Hillary nor Jeb Bush will be in contention after the Primaries ... Jeb cannot pass the Conservative test 35% of Republican voters and Hillary can't pass any test of honesty ... her baggage of scandal will bury her... Jeb Bush should run for the Democrat nomination his agenda matches the Democrat platform

[Just1Voice]

My Irish grandparents. both paternal and maternal, came to the United States in June of 1929. They, and thousands of others, not only from Ireland, but other countries as well, didn't sneak in under cover of darkness, they didn't try to bribe officials to look the other way while they made a mad dash for freedom, but rather came with dignity and pride through Ellis Island. They came with hope in their hearts, and a desire to have a better life, and were damn willing to work for it, to follow the rules, and do things the right way.

These people didn't get here, then sit back and expect America to take care of them. They were so grateful to be here that they worked, and worked hard, to show their gratitude to their new country, and the pride they felt. One of my grandfathers told me the proudest and happiest day of his life was the day he and my grandma received their American citizenship.

My grandparents, along with thousands and thousands of others, did it the RIGHT way, the LEGAL way, and then poured their hearts and talents and resources into this country to help it become a better place for all.

I have no problem welcoming anyone, of any country, any race, any creed, any color to come to America, to become an American, and to help themselves to have a better life. But I sure as hell have a problem with people who think the "rules & laws" shouldn't apply to them, who sneak into this country any way they can, and then expect to be granted the same rights and privileges as those who actually worked for them have.

Call me what you will, but if it were up to me, every illegal would be rounded up and sent out of the country by any/every means possible, and then told: "We will be happy to welcome you back, when you can do it the right way." The people who built this country came here and did it the right way. The people who are helping to tear the country down, are the ones who are coming here illegally and doing it the wrong way.

The financial burden on the honest Americans to support the illegals is staggering in terms of schools and medical treatments. Why should honest Americans be forced to foot the bill for people who pay no taxes and contribute nothing positive to this country?

If they are illegal, get their asses out of the country. Revoke the bill that automatically grants citizenship to the children born here, if their parents aren't legal citizens themselves.

Bottom line: If you're not legal, your ass is gone. Simple as that.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Just1Voice

[JakeSully]

Neither Hillary nor Jeb Bush will be in contention after the Primaries ... Jeb cannot pass the Conservative test 35% of Republican voters and Hillary can't pass any test of honesty ... her baggage of scandal will bury her... Jeb Bush should run for the Democrat nomination his agenda matches the Democrat platform

How can you think that after the country elected W. after the flat out lies of WMDs?

Never ever count anyone out until AFTER the election has BEEN DECIDED AND ACCEPTED.

[JDGRUEN]

Neither Hillary nor Jeb Bush will be in contention after the Primaries ... Jeb cannot pass the Conservative test 35% of Republican voters and Hillary can't pass any test of honesty ... her baggage of scandal will bury her... Jeb Bush should run for the Democrat nomination his agenda matches the Democrat platform

How can you think that after the country elected W. after the flat out lies of WMDs?

Never ever count anyone out until AFTER the election has BEEN DECIDED AND ACCEPTED.

Good Grief much of this thread has turned to speculation ... so I just posted mine too. Political parties and elections are made for prognosticating - lighten up there Jake...

The Leftists in America - who now control the Democrat party are secretly jumping with glee that Jeb Bush is running and could win the Republican nomination ... for they spent much of 8 years stigmatizing the Bush name and they are not going to let that effort go to waste.

If Jeb Bush is nominated the Leftist media in America pushed by the many extreme leftist organizations in America will create a firestorm of propaganda so wide and so deep chastising the Bush name - AGAIN... that months before the elections in November 2016 the low information Democrat voter will think they are voting for the defiled G.W. Bush not Jeb ... Jeb Bush would lose by 20-25 percent of the vote ... also due to the fact that Jeb Bush is totally incompatible with 35% of the Republican party and the Independents. Hillary is not wanted by the top Obama loyal movers and shakers and they will sabotage her efforts and push another person to win the primaries and she will have a very familiar name.

[maderaroja]

My Irish grandparents. both paternal and maternal, came to the United States in June of 1929. They, and thousands of others, not only from Ireland, but other countries as well, didn't sneak in under cover of darkness, they didn't try to bribe officials to look the other way while they made a mad dash for freedom, but rather came with dignity and pride through Ellis Island. They came with hope in their hearts, and a desire to have a better life, and were damn willing to work for it, to follow the rules, and do things the right way.

These people didn't get here, then sit back and expect America to take care of them. They were so grateful to be here that they worked, and worked hard, to show their gratitude to their new country, and the pride they felt. One of my grandfathers told me the proudest and happiest day of his life was the day he and my grandma received their American citizenship.

My grandparents, along with thousands and thousands of others, did it the RIGHT way, the LEGAL way, and then poured their hearts and talents and resources into this country to help it become a better place for all.

I have no problem welcoming anyone, of any country, any race, any creed, any color to come to America, to become an American, and to help themselves to have a better life. But I sure as hell have a problem with people who think the "rules & laws" shouldn't apply to them, who sneak into this country any way they can, and then expect to be granted the same rights and privileges as those who actually worked for them have.

Call me what you will, but if it were up to me, every illegal would be rounded up and sent out of the country by any/every means possible, and then told: "We will be happy to welcome you back, when you can do it the right way." The people who built this country came here and did it the right way. The people who are helping to tear the country down, are the ones who are coming here illegally and doing it the wrong way.

The financial burden on the honest Americans to support the illegals is staggering in terms of schools and medical treatments. Why should honest Americans be forced to foot the bill for people who pay no taxes and contribute nothing positive to this country?

If they are illegal, get their asses out of the country. Revoke the bill that automatically grants citizenship to the children born here, if their parents aren't legal citizens themselves.

Bottom line: If you're not legal, your ass is gone. Simple as that.

And, what wonderful thing did your grandparents do that allowed them to enter the U.S. Immigration process. Probably nothing.

Now, Ellis Island and Angel Island are closed. Those who came to these places had not applied for entry previously to their appearance. They just showed up and were processed. So, we need to open up entry ports to allow those who wish it to enter the U.S.

But, the facts remain, Illegal entry to the U.S. is still only a misdemeanor violation of Federal law. Let those who contribute to the society stay and make those who do not leave.

[ggt]

If we have learned anything about US Presidential elections...it is that the candidates will say anything to get elected...and once elected do an about face to do exactly the opposite as to what they lied about doing during the election process...

Don't even get me started on the many Obama promises that were pure political rhetoric...

[zydeco]

This does show that the Clintons are clever effective campaigners who should never be discounted. In one deft move they have gutted Jeb Bush's prospects (and to a lesser extent Rubio's). Both Bush and Rubio hoped to finesse their way through the Republican primary, avoiding or deflecting immigration until after the nomination. This puts both of those boys right in the headlights on the issue. Hillary has called them out. And I'm happy about it, because I don't want another Bush, ever, or someone like Rubio who says one thing in Spanish and something else in English, depending on his audience. Hillary has belled the cat(s). The only way they will get the Republican nomination, now, is openly defying the party's electorate and taking their marching orders from the moneylenders and cheap labor exploiters.and the Chamber of Commerce. Frankly, Jeb Bush is the one Republican that could make me vote for Hillary Clinton. I would rather have someone openly espousing something I disagree with than some deceitful trickster slinking around and defying the voters who put him in office.

[JDGRUEN]

My Irish grandparents. both paternal and maternal, came to the United States in June of 1929. They, and thousands of others, not only from Ireland, but other countries as well, didn't sneak in under cover of darkness, they didn't try to bribe officials to look the other way while they made a mad dash for freedom, but rather came with dignity and pride through Ellis Island. They came with hope in their hearts, and a desire to have a better life, and were damn willing to work for it, to follow the rules, and do things the right way.

These people didn't get here, then sit back and expect America to take care of them. They were so grateful to be here that they worked, and worked hard, to show their gratitude to their new country, and the pride they felt. One of my grandfathers told me the proudest and happiest day of his life was the day he and my grandma received their American citizenship.

My grandparents, along with thousands and thousands of others, did it the RIGHT way, the LEGAL way, and then poured their hearts and talents and resources into this country to help it become a better place for all.

I have no problem welcoming anyone, of any country, any race, any creed, any color to come to America, to become an American, and to help themselves to have a better life. But I sure as hell have a problem with people who think the "rules & laws" shouldn't apply to them, who sneak into this country any way they can, and then expect to be granted the same rights and privileges as those who actually worked for them have.

Call me what you will, but if it were up to me, every illegal would be rounded up and sent out of the country by any/every means possible, and then told: "We will be happy to welcome you back, when you can do it the right way." The people who built this country came here and did it the right way. The people who are helping to tear the country down, are the ones who are coming here illegally and doing it the wrong way.

The financial burden on the honest Americans to support the illegals is staggering in terms of schools and medical treatments. Why should honest Americans be forced to foot the bill for people who pay no taxes and contribute nothing positive to this country?

If they are illegal, get their asses out of the country. Revoke the bill that automatically grants citizenship to the children born here, if their parents aren't legal citizens themselves.

Bottom line: If you're not legal, your ass is gone. Simple as that.

And, what wonderful thing did your grandparents do that allowed them to enter the U.S. Immigration process. Probably nothing.

Now, Ellis Island and Angel Island are closed. Those who came to these places had not applied for entry previously to their appearance. They just showed up and were processed. So, we need to open up entry ports to allow those who wish it to enter the U.S.

But, the facts remain, Illegal entry to the U.S. is still only a misdemeanor violation of Federal law. Let those who contribute to the society stay and make those who do not leave.

The United States of America via a LEGAL IMMIGRATION PROGRAM... allows more new Legal Immigrants into America each year than all other countries do in their respective countries COMBINED... The U.S. is doing much more that its part... The illegal aliens just do not want to wait in line ... Illegals jump the queue.

[Publicus]

Going in to the GE campaign immigration probably represents how divided the political leadership of the country is and of the powerful hold the far out flying right wing has has over Republican party leaders local, state, national.

The right has pretty much stopped using the word 'amnesty' because it registers only along their own remote political margin, but the right continues to howl against Congress enacting any kind of comprehensive immigration reform as proposed long ago by Prez Obama and passed in the Senate only, back before the Republicans took majority control there consequent to a very low and limited participation vote last November.

HRC acknowledged this by indicating very clearly she will issue executive actions of her own if the composition and control of the current congress maximus isn't changed in the election. If there is one thing Americans (and the world) know about HRC is that she is a strong and decisive leader.

All the reliable public opinion surveys show the great majority of Americans support comprehensive immigration reform, Democrats, Republicans, Independents. It's only the far out extreme right that is against it and they're against a comprehensive reform before they know what it is. People who don't want widely supported reforms have their own agendas.

[losworld]

My Irish grandparents. both paternal and maternal, came to the United States in June of 1929. They, and thousands of others, not only from Ireland, but other countries as well, didn't sneak in under cover of darkness, they didn't try to bribe officials to look the other way while they made a mad dash for freedom, but rather came with dignity and pride through Ellis Island. They came with hope in their hearts, and a desire to have a better life, and were damn willing to work for it, to follow the rules, and do things the right way.

These people didn't get here, then sit back and expect America to take care of them. They were so grateful to be here that they worked, and worked hard, to show their gratitude to their new country, and the pride they felt. One of my grandfathers told me the proudest and happiest day of his life was the day he and my grandma received their American citizenship.

My grandparents, along with thousands and thousands of others, did it the RIGHT way, the LEGAL way, and then poured their hearts and talents and resources into this country to help it become a better place for all.

I have no problem welcoming anyone, of any country, any race, any creed, any color to come to America, to become an American, and to help themselves to have a better life. But I sure as hell have a problem with people who think the "rules & laws" shouldn't apply to them, who sneak into this country any way they can, and then expect to be granted the same rights and privileges as those who actually worked for them have.

Call me what you will, but if it were up to me, every illegal would be rounded up and sent out of the country by any/every means possible, and then told: "We will be happy to welcome you back, when you can do it the right way." The people who built this country came here and did it the right way. The people who are helping to tear the country down, are the ones who are coming here illegally and doing it the wrong way.

The financial burden on the honest Americans to support the illegals is staggering in terms of schools and medical treatments. Why should honest Americans be forced to foot the bill for people who pay no taxes and contribute nothing positive to this country?

If they are illegal, get their asses out of the country. Revoke the bill that automatically grants citizenship to the children born here, if their parents aren't legal citizens themselves.

Bottom line: If you're not legal, your ass is gone. Simple as that.

There are a multitude of reasons favoring legal over illegal immigration not the least of which is fairness. Furthermore anyone legally entering the US is required to provide a health evaluation to guarantee against communicable diseases. Now when you realize how many illegals work in the food industry preparing your food you will further realize just how important this can be.

Hillary and the Democrats are engaging in little more than vote buying while trying to argue it is out of necessity or compassion.

Edited May 7, 2015 by losworld

[Publicus]

For more than 40 years United States immigration policy established by the Congress and the President has been away from Europe, the ME and Africa and toward Latin America, East Asia and South Asia.

This is an astute and farsighted policy over several administrations of Democratic or Republican presidents and whichever party has controlled the Congress. Only recently, since 2008 especially, has the right sector of the United States scrambled against it

White conservative Anglo-Saxon Protestant Republicans just hate it.

[Just1Voice]

My Irish grandparents. both paternal and maternal, came to the United States in June of 1929. They, and thousands of others, not only from Ireland, but other countries as well, didn't sneak in under cover of darkness, they didn't try to bribe officials to look the other way while they made a mad dash for freedom, but rather came with dignity and pride through Ellis Island. They came with hope in their hearts, and a desire to have a better life, and were damn willing to work for it, to follow the rules, and do things the right way.

These people didn't get here, then sit back and expect America to take care of them. They were so grateful to be here that they worked, and worked hard, to show their gratitude to their new country, and the pride they felt. One of my grandfathers told me the proudest and happiest day of his life was the day he and my grandma received their American citizenship.

My grandparents, along with thousands and thousands of others, did it the RIGHT way, the LEGAL way, and then poured their hearts and talents and resources into this country to help it become a better place for all.

I have no problem welcoming anyone, of any country, any race, any creed, any color to come to America, to become an American, and to help themselves to have a better life. But I sure as hell have a problem with people who think the "rules & laws" shouldn't apply to them, who sneak into this country any way they can, and then expect to be granted the same rights and privileges as those who actually worked for them have.

Call me what you will, but if it were up to me, every illegal would be rounded up and sent out of the country by any/every means possible, and then told: "We will be happy to welcome you back, when you can do it the right way." The people who built this country came here and did it the right way. The people who are helping to tear the country down, are the ones who are coming here illegally and doing it the wrong way.

The financial burden on the honest Americans to support the illegals is staggering in terms of schools and medical treatments. Why should honest Americans be forced to foot the bill for people who pay no taxes and contribute nothing positive to this country?

If they are illegal, get their asses out of the country. Revoke the bill that automatically grants citizenship to the children born here, if their parents aren't legal citizens themselves.

Bottom line: If you're not legal, your ass is gone. Simple as that.

And, what wonderful thing did your grandparents do that allowed them to enter the U.S. Immigration process. Probably nothing.

Now, Ellis Island and Angel Island are closed. Those who came to these places had not applied for entry previously to their appearance. They just showed up and were processed. So, we need to open up entry ports to allow those who wish it to enter the U.S.

But, the facts remain, Illegal entry to the U.S. is still only a misdemeanor violation of Federal law. Let those who contribute to the society stay and make those who do not leave.

"And, what wonderful thing did your grandparents do that allowed them to enter the U.S. Immigration process" - They did it the LEGAL way! Or is that too hard for you to understand?

[NeverSure]

And, what wonderful thing did your grandparents do that allowed them to enter the U.S. Immigration process. Probably nothing.

Now, Ellis Island and Angel Island are closed. Those who came to these places had not applied for entry previously to their appearance. They just showed up and were processed. So, we need to open up entry ports to allow those who wish it to enter the U.S.

But, the facts remain, Illegal entry to the U.S. is still only a misdemeanor violation of Federal law. Let those who contribute to the society stay and make those who do not leave.

Any country has a right to control immigration. There was a time in America when new people were needed to populate it and build a country but that time has passed. Ellis Island is closed.

In the mid 1800's the government even gave large tracts of farm land to anyone who would go West and settle and farm that land. The people had to actually live on it and farm it for a period of time and then they owned it. Today that is all populated.

The people who came to America earlier came for opportunity and they assimilated, worked hard and contributed to the system. Today many come and collect benefits and insist on keeping their own cultures. It simply isn't the same.

Immigrants need to be required to make application and prove they have something to contribute. They need to be required to contribute for some amount of time before they get long term residency. These people that I have issue with want to pass out residency leading to citizenship to people who haven't proven themselves, who didn't apply and who haven't been vetted.

The government has a responsibility to the existing population to control things and not just let millions of people spill over the border and set up housekeeping.

[NeverSure]

For more than 40 years United States immigration policy established by the Congress and the President has been away from Europe, the ME and Africa and toward Latin America, East Asia and South Asia.

This is an astute and farsighted policy over several administrations of Democratic or Republican presidents and whichever party has controlled the Congress. Only recently, since 2008 especially, has the right sector of the United States scrambled against it

White conservative Anglo-Saxon Protestant Republicans just hate it.

You have this same issue in Europe where the liberal one-world-government-inclusive-kumbaya airheads are ruining that area with virtually uncontrolled immigration. Many people are against it and straining at the bit about it but it's happening because nutters don't see the future consequences.

Conservatives on this matter aren't wrong. They would defend, protect and preserve what the founders established and what the traditional citizens and their forebears established.

Everyone in the world would like a piece of what those who came before you established. No one wants out and everyone wants in. Why is that? Why do people from countries who haven't fought, died and worked hard for their systems and lifestyles think they need to move into a developed country instead of staying home and fixing theirs?

You should start with Thailand or another Asian country and explain to them why they should allow anyone to walk in and set up housekeeping without so much as a "pretty please." Be prepared to get laughed out of the place.

[Publicus]

For more than 40 years United States immigration policy established by the Congress and the President has been away from Europe, the ME and Africa and toward Latin America, East Asia and South Asia.

This is an astute and farsighted policy over several administrations of Democratic or Republican presidents and whichever party has controlled the Congress. Only recently, since 2008 especially, has the right sector of the United States scrambled against it

White conservative Anglo-Saxon Protestant Republicans just hate it.

You have this same issue in Europe where the liberal one-world-government-inclusive-kumbaya airheads are ruining that area with virtually uncontrolled immigration. Many people are against it and straining at the bit about it but it's happening because nutters don't see the future consequences.

Conservatives on this matter aren't wrong. They would defend, protect and preserve what the founders established and what the traditional citizens and their forebears established.

Everyone in the world would like a piece of what those who came before you established. No one wants out and everyone wants in. Why is that? Why do people from countries who haven't fought, died and worked hard for their systems and lifestyles think they need to move into a developed country instead of staying home and fixing theirs?

You should start with Thailand or another Asian country and explain to them why they should allow anyone to walk in and set up housekeeping without so much as a "pretty please." Be prepared to get laughed out of the place.

the liberal one-world-government-inclusive-kumbaya airheads are ruining that area with virtually uncontrolled immigration

The immigration policies of the presidency and the congresses of the past 40 years that I referenced in my post are hard headed and cold blooded economic calculations and there is little doubt they are in the broad best interests of the United States for the present generations and for the next several generations.

The reactionary right wing flying in the clouds ideologues and mono-culturalists that love the socio-economics of the past hate that. Reality is that people tend --rather strongly in some certain instances-- to want the world to be the way it was while they were growing up.

The reasonable person in the society is however the one who has in fact grown up. That means changing the world as an adult to suit the needs and demands of one's own generation, the new generations born into it, the new technologies and their implications for the economy and society, the new challenges such as climate change due to greenhouse gasses, new realities abroad and so very much more.

A major challenge today is that the people who for many generations used to be conservatives and that as such earned our respect, are instead today extremist militant intransigent retrogressives.

[NeverSure]

A major challenge today is that the people who for many generations used to be conservatives and that as such earned our respect, are instead today extremist militant intransigent retrogressives.

A big problem is that the Democrats in the mold of a John F. Kennedy now look like the liberal Republicans and the the liberal one-world-government-inclusive-kumbaya airheads have taken over the Democrat Party and are ruining the country with virtually uncontrolled immigration.

Look at Europe. Look at France. Once you go too far with uncontrolled immigration to include people who aren't part of your culture it's almost impossible to reverse. France either is or is beginning to be in an era of remorse without any recourse.

The short version is that it's easier to <deleted> things up than it is to fix them.

PS. You have a bugger hanging out of your nose, LOL.

Edited May 7, 2015 by NeverSure

[JDGRUEN]

Hillary Clinton’s candidacy could sink

Sometimes the idea of a thing is much better than the thing itself. Take the Titanic, for example, or Hillary Clinton’s campaign for president. During the all-important conceptual phase, both benefited from an aura of invincibility — which is a great thing to have, until you meet your iceberg.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2015/05/07/hillary-clinton-candidacy-could-sink/we3qjEkGYPF2isblJUQPOI/story.html

Edited May 8, 2015 by Scott
font

[Publicus]

Republicans have to dream because they can only scheme.

Preventing minorities from voting for example.

[Dumbastheycome]

It is sure that a vast number of these illegals have and do contribute to to the economy of the USA. The tax they do not pay is the deficit in what they actually get paid (under the table). What sanctions are there about providing such employent? Raise the sights !

[Ulysses G.]

Preventing minorities from voting for example.

Only minorities that are not clever enough to figure out how to get a photo ID card in a country where you need them to rent a room, get a library card or rent a car or 100 other basic things.

[JDGRUEN]

Republicans have to dream because they can only scheme.

Preventing minorities from voting for example.

Every voter in India and Thailand has a photo ID card ... Minorities in America cannot get one ... but they buy liquor, cigarettes, go on airplanes, get welfare benefits, open a bank account, apply for food stamps, apply to Social Security and Medicare, to get a replacement Social Security Card, apply for unemployment benefits, rent a house, apply for a mortgage to buy a house, apply for a job, rent a car, get on an airplane, get marriage license, buy a gun, rent a hotel room, buy a cell phone, AND they have to use a Photo ID card to do these things ... But not to Vote.

You do realize how ridiculous this assertion is -- don't you - but you do not care and long as you get your way... legitimacy and honesty in political positions matter little to leftist Democrats - correct?

Edited May 8, 2015 by JDGRUEN

[Publicus]

The right wingers need to address the issues they have been feverishly pursuing since the election of Barack Obama as president in 2008.

The favorite line of the right wingers is that the Democrats and other lying liberals are trying to buy immigrant votes by advocating a comprehensive reform of outdated immigration laws by the Congress. The fact is the national immigration laws of the United States need extensive reform.

Republicans in Washington and in the state capitals they control are instead trying to target a significant reduction in the number of minority voters who participate in elections, 2016 in particular. Republicans are conspicuously wearing the collar in this coming election campaign and election too, yet they still have no clue everyone except the right wing themselves can see the collar.

Voter Suppression 101

How Conservatives Are Conspiring to Disenfranchise Millions of Americans

The right to vote is under attack all across our country. Conservative legislators are introducing and passing legislation that creates new barriers for those registering to vote, shortens the early voting period, imposes new requirements for already-registered voters, and rigs the Electoral College in select states.

Conservatives fabricate reasons to enact these laws—voter fraud is exceedingly rare—in their efforts to disenfranchise as many potential voters among certain groups, such as college students, low-income voters, and minorities, as possible.

Rather than modernizing our democracy to ensure that all citizens have access to the ballot box, these laws hinder voting rights in a manner not seen since the era of Jim Crow laws enacted in the South to disenfranchise blacks after Reconstruction in the late 1800s.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/progressive-movement/report/2012/04/04/11380/voter-suppression-101/

THE GOP’S HUGE 2016 PROBLEM IN 3 MAPS

The number of minority voters is increasing, as are their participation rates, while the number of white voters is decreasing. CAP looked at three scenarios for how minority voters might turn out in 2016 — the factors are 1) what percentage of minority voters turn out to vote, and 2) what the Republican/Democrat breakdown is amongst those voters. All of them end up with Republicans getting routed. Here are the scenarios

http://americasvoice.org/blog/center-american-progress-gops-huge-2016-problem-3-maps/

Edited May 8, 2015 by Publicus

[JakeSully]

Preventing minorities from voting for example.

Only minorities that are not clever enough to figure out how to get a photo ID card in a country where you need them to rent a room, get a library card or rent a car or 100 other basic things.

Not quite that simple.. voter id is only 1 thing. The major part of the fraud comes with when they disallow early voting or say they have no more ballots or voting is closed or something really stupid like vote today if you're conservative, vote tomorrow if you're liberal.

Personally I like to vote early just after the debates so I'm not waiting in a long line.

They could of course make this easier with internet voting but I digress.. politicians are so corrupt, they will stop at nothing to get reelected. I'm progressive and liberal and I can't stand Charles Rangel with his corruption. I'm sure you too have a GOP'er you can't stand because they keep getting re-elected because of gerrymandered districts.

What really pisses me off is the people getting elected care less about you and me and more about Israel or oil in Iran.

[GinBoy2]

There is so much bile that infuses the conversation regarding immigration, I don't know whether any politician, because they are politicians, actually have the balls (inc Hillary) to actually confront the entrenched opinions and move it forward.

Like many others, my Grandparents were legal immigrants, except they didn't arrive through the postcard image of Ellis Island, they just crossed the border from Tijuana and were processed just like the millions from Europe in Ellis Island. But thats the point 'legal' immigration was easy, it was fast, documented and people assimilated.

I speak Spanish (just) but thats primarily because my family when they came, and they came to work, wanted to become Americans and they wanted their kids to be English speaking Americans.

Few, if any immigrants come to the US because of the lure of massive welfare checks...if they wanted that they'd stay on the bus until they got to Canada , or head to Europe.

If truth be told, the immigration debate is more about the fear of ethnicity rather than immigration. The problem is, the more you drive it underground the less likely you will have immigrants like my grandparents who want assimilate, and you will create your own worst nightmare.

Bravo to any politician who's willing to open that can of worms!

[Publicus]

As Republican candidates for president continue to move increasingly and further to the right, HRC is taking the position of the huge mainstream of Americans that overwhelmingly support a comprehensive immigration reform.

Approximately two-thirds of American voters support immigration reform with a path to citizenship when the policy option is presented as such. And when the public is presented with the specific requirements undocumented immigrants have to satisfy in order to earn citizenship over time (pass background checks, pay taxes, study English), public support climbs even higher.

On immigration executive action, the American public backs President Obama’s executive actions on immigration, while simultaneously opposing Republican attempts to block or overturn the step forward (see here for PRRI, CBS News, NBC News/WSJ, and Washington Post/ABC numbers).

Latino voters overwhelmingly support reform with a pathway to citizenship and immigration executive actions – approximately 75%-90% of Latino respondents support both immigration reform and executive action (depending on question wording – see polls from Latino Decisions and PRRI and Washington Post/ABC News polling for more).

5 REASONS WHY HILLARY CLINTON’S IMMIGRATION REMARKS WERE POLITICALLY SMART

http://americasvoice.org/blog/5-reasons-why-hillary-clintons-immigration-remarks-were-politically-smart/

GOP CONTENDERS LEFT SPEECHLESS BY CLINTON IMMIGRATION REMARKS, BUT SILENCE DOESN’T ERASE THEIR PROBLEMS

Polling from NBC News/Wall Street Journal from before Tuesday’s event in Las Vegas found Hillary Clinton leads Jeb Bush by a 66%-28% margin and leads Marco Rubio by a 63%-32% margin among Latino voters. The eventual Republican nominee will need to win greater than 40% of the Latino vote in order to win the White House in 2016. By laying out an unequivocally assertive set of pro-immigrant policies in Las Vegas, Clinton drew an even sharper contrast with the Republican contenders.

http://americasvoice.org/blog/gop-contenders-left-speechless-by-clinton-immigration-remarks-but-silence-doesnt-erase-their-problems/

The Republican Gone Old Party has gone into this election campaign way in over their heads. Each new Republican that comes into the campaign moves it further to the right on immigration and everything else, which makes them and the whole of the old party a goner.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Publicus

[JDGRUEN]

Preventing minorities from voting for example.

Only minorities that are not clever enough to figure out how to get a photo ID card in a country where you need them to rent a room, get a library card or rent a car or 100 other basic things.

Not quite that simple.. voter id is only 1 thing. The major part of the fraud comes with when they disallow early voting or say they have no more ballots or voting is closed or something really stupid like vote today if you're conservative, vote tomorrow if you're liberal.

Personally I like to vote early just after the debates so I'm not waiting in a long line.

They could of course make this easier with internet voting but I digress.. politicians are so corrupt, they will stop at nothing to get reelected. I'm progressive and liberal and I can't stand Charles Rangel with his corruption. I'm sure you too have a GOP'er you can't stand because they keep getting re-elected because of gerrymandered districts.

What really pisses me off is the people getting elected care less about you and me and more about Israel or oil in Iran.

If you a referring to Republicans I suppose you have a list of web links with documents - reports talking about - with facts - where Republicans have been somehow denying voting by disallowing early voting, telling the public at the polls that they have no more ballots, or voting is closed.... and it was documented by authorities that it actually happened and it resulted in voters being denied a chance to vote. And by the publishing announcements on places like Facebook such things as If Republican Vote today and if Democrat vote tomorrow... IT IS A JOKE

And claiming that people should not have to have voter photo ID is a JOKE TOO a bad joke.

[Scott]

Please stop with the misinformation. There are rules for how you get Welfare, social security, including a social security number as well as other benefits. In spite of the common belief that these things are given out like candy, they are not.

If you are going to give out this type of information, please check your facts, but be aware, it may not be relevant to the thread.

If you think Thailand is bureaucratic, just try to get a delayed birth certificate if you were born at home.

[JDGRUEN]

There is so much bile that infuses the conversation regarding immigration, I don't know whether any politician, because they are politicians, actually have the balls (inc Hillary) to actually confront the entrenched opinions and move it forward.

Like many others, my Grandparents were legal immigrants, except they didn't arrive through the postcard image of Ellis Island, they just crossed the border from Tijuana and were processed just like the millions from Europe in Ellis Island. But thats the point 'legal' immigration was easy, it was fast, documented and people assimilated.

I speak Spanish (just) but thats primarily because my family when they came, and they came to work, wanted to become Americans and they wanted their kids to be English speaking Americans.

Few, if any immigrants come to the US because of the lure of massive welfare checks...if they wanted that they'd stay on the bus until they got to Canada , or head to Europe.

If truth be told, the immigration debate is more about the fear of ethnicity rather than immigration. The problem is, the more you drive it underground the less likely you will have immigrants like my grandparents who want assimilate, and you will create your own worst nightmare.

Bravo to any politician who's willing to open that can of worms!

The 20 million illegal aliens -- who are not immigrants - did not come into the USA legally... thus the reason they are called Illegal Aliens - which by the way is a term contained in the U.S. Federal Code - along with Resident Legal Aliens. I posted this before -- but posters do not read - they just see the headline and post ... The U.S. has a legal immigration system that allows more new potential citizens into the USA on an annual basis that is more than all other countries do in a similar nature in one year COMBINED... We do our part - more than our part.

Illegal Aliens in the last 15 years have been wage busters reducing construction wages by almost 1/2 - same with trades such as meat packers. Illegal Aliens have caused significant unemployment is certain segments of the job economy. Illegal Aliens have wholesale stolen Social Security Numbers to work and in the process have ruined the credit rating of hundreds of thousands of Americans. There are tens of millions of people around the world who would like to be Americans but they cannot just walk across the U.S. Border . Illegal Aliens from Central America and Mexico do not have a universal right to move to America... no more so than the people of the rest of the world... Illegal Aliens have no special right to come to America under the U.S. Constitution. Coming to America by crossing over from a Mexican city and being legally processed into legal residents was stopped many years ago - mainly because it was unfair to potential legal immigrants from around the world... But Mexicans and Central Americans want to assume that they have a special right to go around the proper Immigration lines to get in...

Democrats want illegal aliens to eventually become dependent compliant voters, the business establishment of the Republican Party want cheap labor to exploit... The tax paying citizens of America are left holding the bag to pay for it all. But nearsighted Americans want to blame it on that old canard racism ... The resistance to massive Amnesty is because of fairness, the rule of law and the FACT that wholesale allowance of illegal aliens to become citizens is simply not needed. Tax paying Citizens of America have a right to chose what is needed for America - the country that they are citizens of and for which they pay.

Funny thing about the attitude of illegal aliens and their pushers... when ask if it would be okay if 20 million other people from around the world - from such countries as India, China, Thailand, Serbia, Croatia, the African countries, etc. could have the place they are occupying in America - since it would be fair and it would demonstrate that Americans are not racist... Would that be okay with you ... of course the answer is NO .... and the reason is Well we deserve it ... And for what? Because they live 1 kilometer over the border in another country - they have special rights over all other citizens of the world? But this is exactly what the illegal aliens are doing when they break in to the USA or over stay their visas is to deny a chance for other people around the world to apply to be U.S. Citizens. But they are special people with special privileges don't ya' know.

[NeverSure]

I've made it totally clear that I'm against this illegal immigration and any amnesty. I have defined law breakers as criminals which they are.

If there's any good news in this is that people from Mexico and south are pretty peaceful as a whole. There are the serious drug runners but they are a minority. These people are largely Catholic, family oriented and have a strong work ethic. They do learn the language, adopt the culture for the most part and they mostly clean up behind themselves.

I do think the border should be secured to stop hardened criminals and potentially Islamists from using it to slip in. I also think it should be sealed to stop any more illegal immigration.

But if the liberals win this one it won't be the worst thing that every happened if only they'd seal the border now. The worst thing the libs are doing is allowing it to continue unabated while failing to protect the country.