Visa Rules Will Be Tightened To Stop Abuse

[danone]

its about time.

whoever doesnt have the proper visa - just get it, its no rocket science.

if you support family here, there are visa classes for you.

[aussimike]

Well it's good to see that some of us think that getting the correct visa and work permit is the way to go. For the rest of you guys and gals who are just wanting to spend time here on your "working holiday", think again. There is no other country that would allow you to stay without the required skills or visa. There are far too many acharn farangs here who just spend a few months working for some so called English language school and then move on to fresher fields and these are the ones who creat ongoing problems for us who have been living and working here with the correct paperwork - as someone said - if you cant get yourself organized - go back home please !!!

[trajan]

I live in CM and there must be hundreds, if not thousands of foreigners living here that do this. Do the Thai government not want these people spending money in LOS?

no they dont and rightly so....if you are on a perpetual rotating tourist visa run (or perpetual visa exempt re-entry merry-go-round), then you are cheating the system and have no right to complain if the authorities decide to stop the cheating (even if you are supporting three buffalos and an entire bar)....

get the right visa and get legal not fair to those who comply with the system and take the time and expense to comply.....

Edited September 10, 2006 by trajan

[Sunbelt Asia]

Why the new directive?

Making some calls this morning and I'm getting two opinions:

1. Election year.

2.John Mark Karr

When they are looking at foreign teachers, a number of them are working illegally with a 30 day stamp. This will help force them to get a proper visa in order to stay and teach. Immigration then can keep tougher tabs. This opinion will be more valid if the directive turns out to be for the 41 countries that are now visa exempt for 30 days.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[kudroz]

I just re-read the article over and over and I just noticed this.

They make refference to 2 things:

- VOA

- VOA Stamp

Where the VOA Stamp - probably reffers to the nationals of the Visa Exempt Countries getting a "30 Days Entry Stamp".

[Two Roads]

Completely agree....busines visas, retirement visas, marriage visas are all easily available.

What is so difficult with simply complying with the law.

Good points Gonzo and Jean!!! If you want to stay, just get yourself sorted out legally . . . . .

G

Gee, why so much fuss about a tourist visa. A tourist visa can be 60 days. Seems more than enough for a holiday.

And people wanting to stay longer, ask a non immigrant visa.

And if you are here and you are not a tourist, well obvious you did something wrong in planning for a visa.

If you support someone get a 1 year visa. If you work get a business visa and a work permit. No excuses.

Jean, you must understand the loudest protesters are those here who will not admit that they are the ones who want the immigration laws to bend for them. and they offer all kinds of excuses ,,, spending lots of money here, supporting 10 families and 3 buffalo, etc... Those protesters can still stay, but they would have to get the correct visa to stay the way they are entitled to. The law here says they cannot live here forever on a tourist visa. Simple.

There are a multitude of visa types to allow you to stay. If you do not wish to apply for the correct visa, or cannot afford the proper visa , well then in that case don't blame the immigration people for saying you are here illegally.

Thats life all over the world. Complainers don't complain if you do not fit the rules. Use the rules to work for you. In the end it will be better for all.

[thaigene2]

Fully agree also. A tourist visa is meant for a tourist. If you're living here for other reasons get a B or O visa. What is the big deal about that?

[nasa]

Gee, why so much fuss about a tourist visa. A tourist visa can be 60 days. Seems more than enough for a holiday.

And people wanting to stay longer, ask a non immigrant visa.

And if you are here and you are not a tourist, well obvious you did something wrong in planning for a visa.

If you support someone get a 1 year visa. If you work get a business visa and a work permit. No excuses.

Jean, you must understand the loudest protesters are those here who will not admit that they are the ones who want the immigration laws to bend for them. and they offer all kinds of excuses ,,, spending lots of money here, supporting 10 families and 3 buffalo, etc... Those protesters can still stay, but they would have to get the correct visa to stay the way they are entitled to. The law here says they cannot live here forever on a tourist visa. Simple.

There are a multitude of visa types to allow you to stay. If you do not wish to apply for the correct visa, or cannot afford the proper visa , well then in that case don't blame the immigration people for saying you are here illegally.

Thats life all over the world. Complainers don't complain if you do not fit the rules. Use the rules to work for you. In the end it will be better for all.

You are right. I support your statement.

[massein]

There are many backpacker types that constantly make border runs living a sussistence life working illegally as english teachers. however there or many people that came here meet the love of there life, and put their small saving into creating a small business for there thai families, that rely on the thirty day visa run. I meet one germany guy who married a thai lady and it was only require that he had to have an income of 20,000 per month when he first apply for a marriage. that requirement has changed twice since ive been here, how he has to have a income of 400,000

i'myself actually had a marriage visa when the requirement was only 200,000, now it is 400,000.

but i have change over to a retirement visa, because it takes me less time to get the stamp in Chiang Mai, but then i have to show a income of 800.000. the constant changing of the rules is the problem. As least as for as I can see. But there or alot of dreg i would gladly see leave the country i love. but i think that the finical requirement or prehaps a little overboard.every year since i've been here there is a major changes in rules

[The Dan Sai Kid]

get the right visa and get legal not fair to those who comply with the system and take the time and expense to comply.....

Can I presume you do comply?

Don't you think having a monthly trip to the border is a reasonable price to pay?

Perhaps there needs to be a bigger shake-up of the visas than this. Eg. India do a 6 month tourist visa.

Don't forget that not all 1 month visa runners are not English teachers. If you want to come for an extended holiday why should you have to go through all the paperwork and expense?

[kudroz]

Completely agree....busines visas, retirement visas, marriage visas are all easily available.

What is so difficult with simply complying with the law.

Certain situation make it hard or impossible to get the right visa. Me for instance, I do not work in Thailand but I have income from my investments and business abroad. I am 24 years old and I do not qualify for the retirement visa.

Even for a Tourist Visa, the embassy abroad wrote on my visa that they will not give issue me another one (probably because I'm too young). I tried showing some sort of proof of funds that I have... but doesn't work.

So it's impossible for me to have a visa, unless I form some kind of BS company and pay 2M baht or I give some extraordinary in the government coffer by buying bonds. So it's not practical, or easy as you say, for me to obtain a visa.

[Thaiquila]

I live in CM and there must be hundreds, if not thousands of foreigners living here that do this. Do the Thai government not want these people spending money in LOS?

no they dont and rightly so....if you are on a perpetual rotating tourist visa run (or perpetual visa exempt re-entry merry-go-round), then you are cheating the system and have no right to complain if the authorities decide to stop the cheating (even if you are supporting three buffalos and an entire bar)....

get the right visa and get legal not fair to those who comply with the system and take the time and expense to comply.....

I personally don't need to do visa runs. But I have in the past taken advantage of tourist visas, multiple entry tourists visas, and occasionally visa runs posing as vacations. I find the self righteousness of people attacking the large segment of people that do use visa runs as garden variety lack of compassion. Do you really think all visa runners are criminals? Are not lots of people on more long term visas also criminals? So you think you are a superior human being because you have a longer term visa? There are lots of countries that offer perpetual tourist visa opportunities, the Philippines, Argentina, and Mexico to name a few. To those that have taken the opportunity to use the liberal interpretation of Thailand's 30 day stamps, I say good on them, and my regrets if this becomes impossible. These are just the shifting sands of rules and enforcement, and to those who feel so secure now with their long term visas, the rules can change to bite you too!

As Trink used to say, human nature? human manure.

[LOS NICK]

as of right now there is no limit on the amount of entries per person..

how the heck is it cheating if you do a visa run and your passport is current and not on overstay.

the article stated---

Official figures showed that about 400,000 Chinese nationals were granted a VOA last year, and 18,000 of them have stayed behind.

Around 200,000 Indians made VOA visits last year and it was found that 16,000 of them have not left.

so now with the new regulations these people will leave and not overstay.

i think this will give them more reason not to leave.

reverse logic.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

These are just the shifting sands of rules and enforcement, and to those who feel so secure now with their long term visas, the rules can change to bite you too!

I completely agree. It wouldn't surprise me if the financial goalposts got moved again in the next couple of years.

[lung]

I just re-read the article over and over and I just noticed this.

They make refference to 2 things:

- VOA

- VOA Stamp

Where the VOA Stamp - probably reffers to the nationals of the Visa Exempt Countries getting a "30 Days Entry Stamp".

==

IT is NOT about VOA or VOA-stamp or 21 or 41 country's !!

IT is about you COME IN then you go 3 times out or REFRESH-VISA

or VISARUN (30 days or 90days)

BUT after you got enough VOA or VOA-stamps (3)

please make some holiday back home...

and then come thailand again ...

30-day-runners and touristvisa-runners will not get "unlimited" entry

i wish they will check the teacher first

and the marriage-ones can still feed the 5 buffalo

[leonmac]

This is definitely big news...

It'd be great if we could get clarification as to exactly which countries are involved (the article references both Western and Eastern countries as being affected) and precisely what type of entries are affected.

Yes, the article is typically vague and useless. Fear mongering and sensationalistic.

So the question is 90 days in one calender year? 90 days and then 3 days outside of the country before re-entry? Or...?

[KronbergTH]

It seems like the Bangkok Post journalist, Chatrudee Theparat, writes writing about visa-exemption, visa-on-arrival and the blacklisting system at the same time without enough knowledge to making it clear and distinct.

Especially because the US as well as most other western countries already has 30 days visa-exemption; meaning those Westerners do not get visa-on-arrival and thus cannot get a “renewal” anyway as they have visa-exemption…

(And by the way, how can a visa-on-arrival being renewed? If a Chinese or an Indian leaves the Kingdom and then return, he may get a new visa-on-arrival, and not a renewal? Any restrictions about how many visa-on-arrivals granted annually should be another case?)

And the problem with overstayed Chinese and Indians on visa-on-arrival should be a different story than Westerners on monthly visa runs.

Bottom line is that the journalist writes about overstay on visa-on-arrival “renewal” and not about visa-runs on visa-exemption. Whether the IPB-officer actually was taking about that they are going to have more focus on the fourth visa-run in a row for foreigners from countries with visa-exemption is now the question?

[lingyai]

Gee, why so much fuss about a tourist visa. A tourist visa can be 60 days. Seems more than enough for a holiday.

And people wanting to stay longer, ask a non immigrant visa.

And if you are here and you are not a tourist, well obvious you did something wrong in planning for a visa.

If you support someone get a 1 year visa. If you work get a business visa and a work permit. No excuses.

Jean, you must understand the loudest protesters are those here who will not admit that they are the ones who want the immigration laws to bend for them. and they offer all kinds of excuses ,,, spending lots of money here, supporting 10 families and 3 buffalo, etc... Those protesters can still stay, but they would have to get the correct visa to stay the way they are entitled to. The law here says they cannot live here forever on a tourist visa. Simple.

There are a multitude of visa types to allow you to stay. If you do not wish to apply for the correct visa, or cannot afford the proper visa , well then in that case don't blame the immigration people for saying you are here illegally.

Thats life all over the world. Complainers don't complain if you do not fit the rules. Use the rules to work for you. In the end it will be better for all.

But still boycott Air Asia and Nok Air .. Offering unfriendly Sky's to the disabled

Funny how you are whining about something when you are telling others not to whine.

Thailand is a great country but does have some dumb laws and rules. There is nothing wrong with saying so. No one should say “hey cripple those are Air Asia’s and Nok air’s rules, don’t complain.” If people want to complain about and point out the silliness of some current and proposed Thai laws good for them. Just because something is the law doesn’t mean one can’t try to change them.

[LOS NICK]

I read it as 3 entries per year----30 day max on an entry

tourist visa-----i dont know ..will it be 3 entries--60 day max on an entry

regardless it will make a huge dent in tourism.

I guess there will be many condos available for rent.

Who needs a long term rental now...

Edited September 10, 2006 by LOS NICK

[Oliver Reed]

As if its not complicated enough... I have no doubts that this is just another way the Thai immigration can extract a few more baht from foreigners...maybe the people who decide policy at immigration were once tuk tuk drivers

[John K]

I think it is best to sit back for a few days until the story is sorted out. It looks from the outside just a paper plan to deal with abusers. If it has any real functionality will be at the border and with the occasional passport check. Other than that the people who abuse the system don’t make visa runs and stay hidden in plain sight. Passport sweeps will be the only way to root out the problem people. This is not to untypical if what is done in the states. Just keep a copy of your passport and visa on hand. I suspect only certain parts of Bangkok will be swept like China town and so on. Other than that I would not worry too much if you are on the 41 country list.

I'm not sure that is very wise. If you are caught on overstay - not at the airport - the ramifications are pretty medieval!

Although it doesn't affect me I imagine that this is going to make a lot of people up sticks and go live somewhere else - I've heard that Cambodia and Vietnam are getting more popular.

I live in CM and there must be hundreds, if not thousands of foreigners living here that do this. Do the Thai government not want these people spending money in LOS?

I was not talking about people who overstay, I was just saying to have your passport handy so that you have proof that you are legal.

On the other note

More Chinese tourists for Thailand as TAT meets target

LIAONING, Sept 9 (TNA) – Thailand's Deputy Prime Minister Somkid Jatusripitak has set himself a target of attracting more than 100,000 tourists from China’s northeastern province of Liaoning to visit Thailand during the high season late this year, as part of the Tourism Authority of Thailand's (TAT) overall goal of drawing one million Chinese visitors to the kingdom this year.

The TAT is confident that its target will be achieved.

Accompanied by senior officials, Mr. Somkid, who also serves as Thailand's Commerce Minister, on Friday met with major tourism operators of Liaoning Province in his attempt to persuade more people of the province to visit Thailand during this year’s high season.

A tourism cooperation agreement was signed between Juthamas Siriwan, Governor of TAT, and tourism operators of Liaoning aimed at encouraging people in the province to visit Thailand with direct flights between the province and Thailand to be established in the near future.

The TAT governor said that some 800,000 Chinese tourists had visited Thailand since the beginning of 2006 and she was confident that more than one million Chinese would visit the kingdom by the end of this year, meeting the target and also achieving a significant jump upwards last years when approximately 500,000 Chinese tourists visited Thailand.

Mrs. Juthamas said Thailand would also try to persuade higher-income Chinese tourists to visit the kingdom. (TNA)--E111

[lung]

I guess there will be many condos available for rent.

the best one in the last 9! hour's

[david96]

Visa runners would not be seen in such a bad light by immigration if they just stayed out of Thailand for perhaps 7 to 10 days and then returned.They would not be so likely to bring attention to themselves. But to just to complete the basic formalities to cross an international border and then return to Thailand within minutes not once or twice a month this certainly does not make them genuine tourists in the eyes of the authorities.

[kudroz]

I just re-read the article over and over and I just noticed this.

They make refference to 2 things:

- VOA

- VOA Stamp

Where the VOA Stamp - probably reffers to the nationals of the Visa Exempt Countries getting a "30 Days Entry Stamp".

==

IT is NOT about VOA or VOA-stamp or 21 or 41 country's !!

IT is about you COME IN then you go 3 times out or REFRESH-VISA

or VISARUN (30 days or 90days)

BUT after you got enough VOA or VOA-stamps (3)

please make some holiday back home...

and then come thailand again ...

30-day-runners and touristvisa-runners will not get "unlimited" entry

i wish they will check the teacher first

and the marriage-ones can still feed the 5 buffalo

what are you fumbling about, read the article again. The article is talking about Visa On Arivals (VOA) that is available for 20 countries. educate yourself here. And it is a fair assessment to believe they are also talking about the Visa Exempt Stamp (30 Days Stamp Entry) because of the refference to 41 countries and the lenght of stay that such stamp provides.

Nonetheless, the article is phrased wrong - and we can't know for sure. Keep your ASSumptions to yourself.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Visa runners would not be seen in such a bad light by immigration if they just stayed out of Thailand for perhaps 7 to 10 days and then returned.They would not be so likely to bring attention to themselves. But to just to complete the basic formalities to cross an international border and then return to Thailand within minutes not once or twice a month this certainly does not make them genuine tourists in the eyes of the authorities.

If you do a Visa Run at Mae Sai - why would you want to spend anymore time than neccesary in Myanmar, aside from the fact it's an oppresive regime, it's also a dump!

[lung]

read the article again. The article is talking about Visa On Arivals (VOA) that is available for 20 countries. educate yourself here. And it is a fair assessment to believe they are also talking about the Visa Exempt Stamp (30 Days Stamp Entry) because of the refference to 41 countries and the lenght of stay that such stamp provides.

Keep your ASSumptions to yourself.

:D

ok... only for you again (24?)

===

However, some foreigners including tourists ''tiptoe around the law'' by resorting to so-called visa runs to extend their stay. Most take a bus to a border, check out of the country and then return the same day to have the VOA renewed.

They repeat the practice as many times as they wish, affording them almost unlimited stay in the country.

Pol Lt-Gen Suwat said the change of the VOA rules is in order.

In future, foreigners from those 41 countries will be able to stay in the country for 30 days from the first VOA stamp, which will be renewable twice at most, each time for a maximum of 30 days. In other words, a foreigner will be permitted to remain in Thailand for no longer than 90 days in total after three VOA stamps.

The commissioner said the current system is prone to abuse as many foreign nationals make numerous visa runs so they can stay on long term to do business. In some cases, they have gone unregulated, causing social problems.

===

this are the 30 day - runner ...

[The Dan Sai Kid]

a foreigner will be permitted to remain in Thailand for no longer than 90 days in total after three VOA stamps.[/u]

That doesn't make sense -if you do a Visa Run you are surely out of the country...

[Big Dogster]

I live in CM and there must be hundreds, if not thousands of foreigners living here that do this. Do the Thai government not want these people spending money in LOS?

no they dont and rightly so....if you are on a perpetual rotating tourist visa run (or perpetual visa exempt re-entry merry-go-round), then you are cheating the system and have no right to complain if the authorities decide to stop the cheating (even if you are supporting three buffalos and an entire bar)....

get the right visa and get legal not fair to those who comply with the system and take the time and expense to comply.....

I personally don't need to do visa runs. But I have in the past taken advantage of tourist visas, multiple entry tourists visas, and occasionally visa runs posing as vacations. I find the self righteousness of people attacking the large segment of people that do use visa runs as garden variety lack of compassion. Do you really think all visa runners are criminals? Are not lots of people on more long term visas also criminals? So you think you are a superior human being because you have a longer term visa? There are lots of countries that offer perpetual tourist visa opportunities, the Philippines, Argentina, and Mexico to name a few. To those that have taken the opportunity to use the liberal interpretation of Thailand's 30 day stamps, I say good on them, and my regrets if this becomes impossible. These are just the shifting sands of rules and enforcement, and to those who feel so secure now with their long term visas, the rules can change to bite you too!

As Trink used to say, human nature? human manure.

Amen to all that

[argus]

Dear Colleageus,

what every it is, life for foreigner do not become easier here in Thailand. This is only the beginning of sharp rules in the near future (after election).

Be prepared for the worst.

[LivinLOS]

The whole thing is horribly written.. But even if it is meant as its intended (I think)..

Are they really going to turn away the guy who comes for a month at new year, a month at song gran, a month at autumn and then when he returns for christmas say "no, sorry youve spent too much time and money here" I for one doubt that.

As to all the posters getting on thier high horse and saying get a real visa.. There is one glaring gap in the visa regs and thats an under 50 independantly wealthy person who for one reason or another will not or can not marry.

I live here, I am retired and should not need to work again, I have a nice villa to stay in, obey the law, budget about 150k per month for living (but blow that budget some months). The woman I refer to as my 'wife' was previously married to a farang who is MIA (and wanted by Thai authorities) and she cannot divorce without his consent. So what long stay visa is there ?? To the poster who said to get a 1 year tourist, find one !! No embassy or consul I know will issue 4x tourist entries and surely as a long stay resident you shouldnt still be on a tourist visa ??