2010 crackdown: Some families lose hope that justice will be served

[webfact]

Some families lose hope that justice will be served
NITIPOL KIRAVANICH
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- FIVE YEARS after the end of the bloody crackdown on red shirts which led to the combined death of 99 people, some of the protesters interviewed have given up hope of getting justice.

"The chance of bringing the wrongdoers to justice is nearly zero per cent," Walailak University lecturer Uchen Chiangsaen, a protester back in 2010, said.

Uchen said even if it is hard to get justice for the protesters, "we must try our best because if it is ever successful in promoting better justice, it will set a standard if similar cases occur in the future".

In April-May 2010, the United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) or red shirts gathered to protest against the government of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and the military was ordered to disperse the protest.

'No determination to make changes'

Red-shirt law lecturer Ekachai Chainuvati said there was not much hope that justice could eventually be served for the relatives of people who lost their lives during the crackdown.

"There is little hope to it, because it has been five years now, no matter which government is in power, they do not show determination in bringing the wrongdoers to justice," Ekachai said.

The legal cases focus on only two people: Abhisit and his then deputy Suthep Thaugsuban, who are accused of negligence and allowing the military to disperse the protesters in a manner that led to fatalities.

"This shows that the Thai judicial process is still problematic, particularly when it comes to those who hold weapons [armed officers]," he reasoned.

UDD member Pratchayaa Surakamchomrop said if we believe the authorities have great influence over the justice process, the possibility of getting justice for relatives could be a very low.

He said the military and government officials during 2010 and now could be perceived as being related. Junta leader and Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-o-cha, for example, was the highest-ranking officer on the ground under Abhisit back in 2010.

But some hold hope - against all odds.

Meanwhile, Nattapat Akkahad brother of volunteer nurse Kamolkade Akkhad who was shot while tending to the injured inside Wat Pathum Wanaram in downtown Bangkok, said: "We have never lose hope in obtaining justice."

Nattapat insisted that he and other relatives of those who lost their lives still have faith in the Thailand's justice system.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Some-families-lose-hope-that-justice-will-be-serve-30260506.html


-- The Nation 2015-05-20

[Tatsujin]

"He said the military and government officials during 2010 and now could be perceived as being related."

Yeah, Yingluck/Thaksin also made great strides in bringing the offenders to justice during their years of running the country and (not) pushing this case forwards.

Guess they had more important things to do (filling their pockets) rather than ensure justice is done, or perhaps they just don't really want people to look too closely into this case as it's going to open up a whole big can of worms that NEITHER side wants out in public.

[Robby nz]

I guess that would be the family of the army officer whose wife made repeated pleas to Tarit to investigate the murder of her husband and was ignored

[trogers]

Have a talk to the wife of the lawyer whom was abducted and believed killed during Thaksin's time.

[oneday]

Be patient; right now the current government is busy prosecuting every "Red Shirt" they can get their hands on. By the time they are done, all the "Yellow Shirts" who might be held accountable will be dead from old age.

[Pimay1]

These families are either blinded to the root cause of this conflict that resulted in many tragic deaths or simply do not want to accept it.

[robblok]

They seem to fail to accept and mention that Thaksin and his blackshirts have blame too. Sure the army used too much violence but they were fired upon by blackshirts who were there on Thaksins orders. If it was a peaceful protest then this had not happened. They should be honest and also blame the militants in their own camp not only the army.

Both are to blame.

[FangFerang]

TVF posters wearing yellow goggles immediately swarm in with -- "but Thaksin this" and "those red thugs that" and every troll-style deflecting post imaginable.

I cannot be kind about cheerleaders calling for teen spirit. The article is about something you don't like. Whinge on!!

The army slaughtered a lot of people, some in a temple. Claiming that Thais "just are blind" or "cannot understand" is a claim for "Ferangness"...and about as vapid as any argument can be.

Yeah. Right. The rest of the world outside this little bubble call such remarks "uneducated and uninformed" I tend to lean toward "intentionally ignorant" and "blatantly prevaricating."

[kingalfred]

And the thugs who "were involved in violence" in 2010 want justice? Some of them got it at the time, others were lucky to escape punishment!

[kingalfred]

TVF posters wearing yellow goggles immediately swarm in with -- "but Thaksin this" and "those red thugs that" and every troll-style deflecting post imaginable.

I cannot be kind about cheerleaders calling for teen spirit. The article is about something you don't like. Whinge on!!

The army slaughtered a lot of people, some in a temple. Claiming that Thais "just are blind" or "cannot understand" is a claim for "Ferangness"...and about as vapid as any argument can be.

Yeah. Right. The rest of the world outside this little bubble call such remarks "uneducated and uninformed" I tend to lean toward "intentionally ignorant" and "blatantly prevaricating."

"intentionally ignorant" describes your motives I suggest.

[dageurreotype]

They seem to fail to accept and mention that Thaksin and his blackshirts have blame too. Sure the army used too much violence but they were fired upon by blackshirts who were there on Thaksins orders. If it was a peaceful protest then this had not happened. They should be honest and also blame the militants in their own camp not only the army.

Both are to blame.

I was living off Sathorn at the time. There was no 'bloody crackdown'. People were getting frustrated that Abhisit was holding off dispersing them. I do remember the men in black though ..

[robblok]

They seem to fail to accept and mention that Thaksin and his blackshirts have blame too. Sure the army used too much violence but they were fired upon by blackshirts who were there on Thaksins orders. If it was a peaceful protest then this had not happened. They should be honest and also blame the militants in their own camp not only the army.

Both are to blame.

I was living off Sathorn at the time. There was no 'bloody crackdown'. People were getting frustrated that Abhisit was holding off dispersing them. I do remember the men in black though ..

I lived in near BKK and seen the men in black too.. and followed the news of the bombings shootings that occured before the army finally stepped in. This was no peaceful protest. But it can't be denied that many people got killed so something went wrong for sure. The army is not blameless.

[smutcakes]

They seem to fail to accept and mention that Thaksin and his blackshirts have blame too. Sure the army used too much violence but they were fired upon by blackshirts who were there on Thaksins orders. If it was a peaceful protest then this had not happened. They should be honest and also blame the militants in their own camp not only the army.

Both are to blame.

I was living off Sathorn at the time. There was no 'bloody crackdown'. People were getting frustrated that Abhisit was holding off dispersing them. I do remember the men in black though ..

I lived in near BKK and seen the men in black too.. and followed the news of the bombings shootings that occured before the army finally stepped in. This was no peaceful protest. But it can't be denied that many people got killed so something went wrong for sure. The army is not blameless.

Where did you see the men in black?

[GeckosDiving]

TVF posters wearing yellow goggles immediately swarm in with -- "but Thaksin this" and "those red thugs that" and every troll-style deflecting post imaginable.

I cannot be kind about cheerleaders calling for teen spirit. The article is about something you don't like. Whinge on!!

The army slaughtered a lot of people, some in a temple. Claiming that Thais "just are blind" or "cannot understand" is a claim for "Ferangness"...and about as vapid as any argument can be.

Yeah. Right. The rest of the world outside this little bubble call such remarks "uneducated and uninformed" I tend to lean toward "intentionally ignorant" and "blatantly prevaricating."

[hugh2121]

Some people here do not want to face up to the truth. A democratically elected government was ousted by the military.

Abhisit and his government were installed but not elected.

The red shirt faction protested this totally undemocratic act.

The army mobilised to support Abhisit and disperse the red shirts.

99 people were killed during this dispersal.

A new government was duly elected by the people.

Suthep and his followers caused many problems for the new lawful government.

The army refused to assist said lawful government.

Parliament was desolved because of this and new elections were called.

Abhisit boycotted the election because he knew he could not win.

Because parliament had been dissolved there was effectively no government.

The military staged another coup.

[robblok]

They seem to fail to accept and mention that Thaksin and his blackshirts have blame too. Sure the army used too much violence but they were fired upon by blackshirts who were there on Thaksins orders. If it was a peaceful protest then this had not happened. They should be honest and also blame the militants in their own camp not only the army.

Both are to blame.

I was living off Sathorn at the time. There was no 'bloody crackdown'. People were getting frustrated that Abhisit was holding off dispersing them. I do remember the men in black though ..

I lived in near BKK and seen the men in black too.. and followed the news of the bombings shootings that occured before the army finally stepped in. This was no peaceful protest. But it can't be denied that many people got killed so something went wrong for sure. The army is not blameless.

Where did you see the men in black?

On the protest sites in BKK when i went into the city. Saw also plenty armed protesters at the sites.

If you dont want to get shot dont carry weapons and dont stand near those who do. This was no peaceful protest everyone who was there at the time knew.

[smutcakes]

Where did you see the men in black?

On the protest sites in BKK when i went into the city. Saw also plenty armed protesters at the sites.

If you dont want to get shot dont carry weapons and dont stand near those who do. This was no peaceful protest everyone who was there at the time knew.

I walked through the protest sites daily in Chidlom area, and not once saw anyone armed, all the way up to the final days. (I am not saying they were not armed)

The men in black, not one caught by any army, police, who operated covertly under the cover of darkness and were only captured in grainy images by reporters, yet old Robblok from Thai Visa walked through the protest sites and managed to see them....... of course you did Rob.....

[robblok]

Where did you see the men in black?

On the protest sites in BKK when i went into the city. Saw also plenty armed protesters at the sites.

If you dont want to get shot dont carry weapons and dont stand near those who do. This was no peaceful protest everyone who was there at the time knew.

I walked through the protest sites daily in Chidlom area, and not once saw anyone armed, all the way up to the final days. (I am not saying they were not armed)

The men in black, not one caught by any army, police, who operated covertly under the cover of darkness and were only captured in grainy images by reporters, yet old Robblok from Thai Visa walked through the protest sites and managed to see them....... of course you did Rob.....

Mate there are pictures of them in daylite. I saw them once not many times. Maybe i was lucky maybe not. You say you went there every day and no arms.... i seen baseball bats catapults and knives on the redshirts. Maybe you closed your eyes.

[Robby nz]

Where did you see the men in black?

On the protest sites in BKK when i went into the city. Saw also plenty armed protesters at the sites.

If you dont want to get shot dont carry weapons and dont stand near those who do. This was no peaceful protest everyone who was there at the time knew.

I walked through the protest sites daily in Chidlom area, and not once saw anyone armed, all the way up to the final days. (I am not saying they were not armed)

The men in black, not one caught by any army, police, who operated covertly under the cover of darkness and were only captured in grainy images by reporters, yet old Robblok from Thai Visa walked through the protest sites and managed to see them....... of course you did Rob.....

Is that so called 'grainy image' good enough for you ?

Or possibly another would help ?

There are pages more where that came from and videos also but you don't want to believe them.

How do you know none of the MIB or other armed reds were not shot, do you really believe their weapons would have been left with the bodies ?

As for none of the MIB ever being caught well possibly they have, although I don't know yet if they have been convicted of being MIB I understand they were convicted on firearms charges for weapons they had in their position when caught, including a grenade launcher.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/759559-five-men-in-black-suspects-are-in-police-custody/

Edited May 20, 2015 by Robby nz

[Eric Loh]

People still refuse to see the big gorilla in the room. No coincidence that there are 18 coups all for the reasons that the establishment want to spin and setting the scene. Thailand will be a much peaceful and progressive country if the big gorilla stick to their job of defending the country and not turning their guns inward.

[seajae]

the red supporters in here continually refuse to believe the truth that has been proven time and again, its the red propaganda machine in action. Yes the army was at fault but the reds were the ones that started it, they were offered the election then changed their minds overnight and started all the violence, was this under instructions, we will probably never know but if they had not started the violence this would not have happened. Its a bit hard when the ones responsible for the violence complain that they were injured/shot, what did they expect, to shoot at the army and have nothing happen to them. Thaksins black shirts that were seen and photographed by many journo's have a lot to answer for but the ptp simply never went after them because they were working for their boss, people want to blame the troops for shooting civilians then they also have to accept responsibility for being in declared no go zones and having their own members shooting at the troops etc, there is blame on both sides but it was the reds that started it. Pity they are too stupid to understand that when you create violence you recieve it back, maybe the red leaders told them nothing would happen to anyone if they did as they were told just to get them to do it all but they definitely are not blameless in this, they have to accept responsibility for what they started and did under instructions, strange that the ones telling them to create the violence have never been tossed in jail for doing so, they are all wealthy now or didnt any of the red sheeple realize this fact.

[DM07]

So let me get this straight: everyone on the "red"-side is just responsible for all the bad things that happened, so all the families who lost anyone should just go and fork themselves, right?!

[kingalfred]

Some people here do not want to face up to the truth. A democratically elected government was ousted by the military.

Abhisit and his government were installed but not elected.

The red shirt faction protested this totally undemocratic act.

The army mobilised to support Abhisit and disperse the red shirts.

99 people were killed during this dispersal.

A new government was duly elected by the people.

Suthep and his followers caused many problems for the new lawful government.

The army refused to assist said lawful government.

Parliament was desolved because of this and new elections were called.

Abhisit boycotted the election because he knew he could not win.

Because parliament had been dissolved there was effectively no government.

The military staged another coup.

Where to start with such junk. Well lets start at the beginning. The Democratic Party lead by Abhisit had a majority in parliament with the support of a smaller party, just as the peau thai,or whatever name they had at the time, had previously. The rest of your diatribe is red rhetoric! Edited May 20, 2015 by kingalfred

[Gunna]

Some people here do not want to face up to the truth. A democratically elected government was ousted by the military.

Abhisit and his government were installed but not elected.

The red shirt faction protested this totally undemocratic act.

The army mobilised to support Abhisit and disperse the red shirts.

99 people were killed during this dispersal.

A new government was duly elected by the people.

Suthep and his followers caused many problems for the new lawful government.

The army refused to assist said lawful government.

Parliament was desolved because of this and new elections were called.

Abhisit boycotted the election because he knew he could not win.

Because parliament had been dissolved there was effectively no government.

The military staged another coup.

Or maybe the truth is closer to:

Supreme Court found Thaksin guilty and confiscated some of his ill-gotten money

To get back the money he needed to get back in power

But as a convicted criminal he couldn't return and stand for election until an amnesty/pardon for his convictions and outstanding criminal charges was made

So Thaksin paid UDD/Redshirts to demonstrate in Bangkok and get Government overthrown

Abhisit agreed to November elections which UDD asked for, but then strangely said that wasn't enough and refused to withdraw.

99 people were killed during this dispersal. after Government waited 3 months trying to negotiate a settlement

Thaksin had his sister installed to stand as his proxy/caddy as leader of PTP - his sister other sister Yowappa was serving a 5 year ban for previous illegal activities) although a proxy held her seat until the ban ended and immediately resigned to let her have her seat back.

A new government was duly elected by the people - after TS bought as many votes as he could and paid village headmen to intimidate voters, plus bribe the electorate with overs of over the top rice payments, tax back on new cars and free computer tablets for school children and increasing the minimum wage.

(The first 3 scams were complete failures and will take Thailand 20 years to pay off the debts - just so Thaksin could get LY in charge to get an amnesty for him

And so YL became the PM with no previous political experience, so kept out of the way by going on overseas shopping trips

Thakin's stooges then went about a litany of illegal acts and scams

Then tried to push through the Amnesty bill thinking no-one would complain/protest by including Abhisit, Democrats/Yellow shirts

This backfired and after more incompetence and lies by PTP the army coup happened, ruining TS chances of getting back and getting back his confiscated money for many years to come.

[ExPratt]

And the thugs who "were involved in violence" in 2010 want justice? Some of them got it at the time, others were lucky to escape punishment!

So all those people getting killed was Justice was it? Nice

[EnglishJohn]

People still refuse to see the big gorilla in the room. No coincidence that there are 18 coups all for the reasons that the establishment want to spin and setting the scene. Thailand will be a much peaceful and progressive country if the big gorilla stick to their job of defending the country and not turning their guns inward.

Utter crap as usual.

The Army would not have been there if the police did their job. Can you explain why they didn't ?.

Armed gunmen were on the streets of the capital city and were escalating the situation. They would have been cleared out much quicker in any Western country by riot police. Maybe the government should have declared a 2 Km exclusion zone and left them there ?.

When red-shirts say 'Justice' they mean that the Army are found guilty. This is their version of justice : right and wrong don't come into it. They have no clue what really happened and don't care either.

[kingalfred]

And the thugs who "were involved in violence" in 2010 want justice? Some of them got it at the time, others were lucky to escape punishment!

So all those people getting killed was Justice was it? Nice

nothing "nice" about it! They were in the front line engaged in violence ,period.

[dragonfly94]

And the thugs who "were involved in violence" in 2010 want justice? Some of them got it at the time, others were lucky to escape punishment!

The rest are still in the army and one took over the country

[rubl]

Where did you see the men in black?

On the protest sites in BKK when i went into the city. Saw also plenty armed protesters at the sites.

If you dont want to get shot dont carry weapons and dont stand near those who do. This was no peaceful protest everyone who was there at the time knew.

I walked through the protest sites daily in Chidlom area, and not once saw anyone armed, all the way up to the final days. (I am not saying they were not armed)

The men in black, not one caught by any army, police, who operated covertly under the cover of darkness and were only captured in grainy images by reporters, yet old Robblok from Thai Visa walked through the protest sites and managed to see them....... of course you did Rob.....

When some heavily armed 'militants' ask you politely not to make photos, would you start a discussion on "freedom of the press" with them?

[rubl]

I guess that would be the family of the army officer whose wife made repeated pleas to Tarit to investigate the murder of her husband and was ignored

That's unfair. Tarit said to concentrate on the 'easy' cases first.