UN says will engage Israel on 'realistic options' for talks

[dexterm]

Look ... why not take your bogeyman Hamas and the rest out of the loop.

Because they are NOT out of the loop.Hamas is half of the Palestinians government.

Time is not on the side of the Palestinians, but that is what they tell themselves. That is why Israel keeps building settlements. Either the Arabs recognize the Jewish State, renounce terrorism and sign a peace treaty or they are going to wake up with next to nothing one day, with - as usual - only themselves to blame.

Someone ought to make Bush, Obama, Kerry and Netanyahu aware of the impossibility of their task in talking peace with Abbas and the PA, while leaving Hamas out of the loop, next time they invite Abbas to the White House. He seems to have sneaked in there at least 3 times already.

They can talk all they want. What they CAN'T do is get a peace deal that matters. Without Hamas there is NO peace deal and unless Hamas recognizes Israel as Jewish state and renounce terrorism - which they refuse to do - there will be no deal in the future.

Palestinians can live in purgatory forever, if they choose to, but it will be their own responsibility. I'm pretty sure that Netanyahu would be perfectly happy with that. It is hurting the Palestinians a lot more than the Israelis. Israel is flourishing.

What you appear to be doing is raising an insurmountable obstacle to peace. Hamas will never recognize a Jewish State of Israel. Why should they ... a state that less than 100 years ago was only 12% Jewish with only 3% Jewish land ownership.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/demograhics.html

They will accept the secular state of Israel if Israel accepts Palestine within 67 borders. I wouldn't be surprised if several EU countries (Israel's largest trading partner) refuse to recognize the Jewish State of Israel too, tantamount to recognizing racism and apartheid.

As I said above, Obama, Kerry and Netanyahu seem to be happy ignoring your Hamas obstacle to peace. Lets hope they make progress with the PA, and see what happens then. Cross that bridge when we come to it.

The Palestinians have waited almost 100 years now for self determination. A few more wont make much difference.

Yes, I have visited Israel and it does have the trappings of a developed country, but it has a lousy business plan for the future, isolating itself from trade with the rest of the Middle East and a quarter of the world's population...Muslims, and with the threat of EU sanctions if it does something stupid such as opt for full blown apartheid or ethnic cleansing.

[Ulysses G.]

The Palestinians have waited almost 100 years now for self determination.

If they do not recognize Israel as a Jewish state, renounce terrorism and sign a comprehensive peace deal, they will be waiting forever. They have failed in combat. They have failed in economic terms. They have failed at pretty much everything. Israel is a success and holds all the cards.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[ggold]

Because they are NOT out of the loop.Hamas is half of the Palestinians government.

Time is not on the side of the Palestinians, but that is what they tell themselves. That is why Israel keeps building settlements. Either the Arabs recognize the Jewish State, renounce terrorism and sign a peace treaty or they are going to wake up with next to nothing one day, with - as usual - only themselves to blame.

Someone ought to make Bush, Obama, Kerry and Netanyahu aware of the impossibility of their task in talking peace with Abbas and the PA, while leaving Hamas out of the loop, next time they invite Abbas to the White House. He seems to have sneaked in there at least 3 times already.

They can talk all they want. What they CAN'T do is get a peace deal that matters. Without Hamas there is NO peace deal and unless Hamas recognizes Israel as Jewish state and renounce terrorism - which they refuse to do - there will be no deal in the future.

Palestinians can live in purgatory forever, if they choose to, but it will be their own responsibility. I'm pretty sure that Netanyahu would be perfectly happy with that. It is hurting the Palestinians a lot more than the Israelis. Israel is flourishing.

What you appear to be doing is raising an insurmountable obstacle to peace. Hamas will never recognize a Jewish State of Israel. Why should they ... a state that less than 100 years ago was only 12% Jewish with only 3% Jewish land ownership.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/demograhics.html

They will accept the secular state of Israel if Israel accepts Palestine within 67 borders. I wouldn't be surprised if several EU countries (Israel's largest trading partner) refuse to recognize the Jewish State of Israel too, tantamount to recognizing racism and apartheid.

As I said above, Obama, Kerry and Netanyahu seem to be happy ignoring your Hamas obstacle to peace. Lets hope they make progress with the PA, and see what happens then. Cross that bridge when we come to it.

The Palestinians have waited almost 100 years now for self determination. A few more wont make much difference.

Yes, I have visited Israel and it does have the trappings of a developed country, but it has a lousy business plan for the future, isolating itself from trade with the rest of the Middle East and a quarter of the world's population...Muslims, and with the threat of EU sanctions if it does something stupid such as opt for full blown apartheid or ethnic cleansing.

I believe Israel offered the Iron Dome system to the Saudi's to help protect them from missiles fired from the Yemen! But the Saudi's were not interested. I think it is the Muslim world that refuses to buy Israeli goods. NOT Israel refusing to trade with the arabs.

Oh and Hamas will never recognise Israel secular or otherwise. As an Arab propagandist you should know that, surely?

Israel hasn't isolated itself from trade with the rest of the ME. It is the other way around, and again with the BS claim of ethnic cleansing.

The real ethnic cleansing is in Syria Sunni against Shia, The real ethnic cleansing is in Iraq, Sunni against Shia. If you want to talk ethnic cleansing talk about ISIS/ISIL.

Your problem is, as an Arab propagandist, there is no milage in that for you!

[Ulysses G.]

Yes, I have visited Israel and it does have the trappings of a developed country, but it has a lousy business plan for the future

As usual, you don't know what you are talking about. Business in Israel is doing just fine. Exports to Europe grew nearly 10 percent in the last year and and hi-tech is at a record. In fact, half of Israel’s exports last year were hi-tech, a statistic which is unmatched in the world. People NEED Israel's high tech products, which is why boycotts against them are such a dismal failure, and Muslims will just hurt themselves if they do not deal with them.

In the span of just a few decades, the Jewish state has "transformed itself from a semisocialist backwater into a high-tech superpower," as The Economist put it in 2010. Per capita, it gives birth to more technology startups and is the destination for more venture capital than any other country in the world. Its economy barely flinched during the financial crisis.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/08/its-not-just-the-culture-stupid-4-reasons-why-israels-economy-is-so-strong/260610/

Edited May 24, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[ggold]

The Palestinians have waited almost 100 years now for self determination.

If they do not recognize Israel as a Jewish state, renounce terrorism and sign a comprehensive peace deal, they will be waiting forever. They have failed in combat. They have failed in economic terms. They have failed at pretty much everything. Israel is a success and holds all the cards.

A palestinian state could never survive on it's own. It would need Israel to keep it a viable nation state. It could not survive if it relied on Jordan for it's economic prosperity.

They need Israel more than Israel needs them. But even Abbas can't make Peace. he would be a traitor in Arab eyes.

Edited May 24, 2015 by ggold

[dexterm]

ggold (threa full..sorry)

If you want to talk ethnic cleansing talk about ISIS/ISIL.

No thanks. I think we have another thread for that. I am discussing the OP.

Oh and Hamas will never recognise Israel secular or otherwise.

Perhaps Israel should do what European MPS did...try asking them.

Haniyeh: Hamas willing to accept Palestinian state with 1967 borders

Hamas leader in Gaza addressed group of European MPs who sailed to Strip to protest Israel's blockade.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh-hamas-willing-to-accept-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915

Israelis are there to stay and so is the elephant in the room...the 2.5 million Palestinians under occupation in the West Bank and 1.7 million Palestinians under blockade in Gaza.The population is growing and the problem is festering.

And the whole world is becoming more and more aware of Israel's unjust treatment.

For all the acrobatic semantics, mythologizing of history, obstacle building, besmirching of critics by Israeli apologists, the truth will out.

[ggold]

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/2014/08/27/abbas-cant-solve-gaza-or-make-peace-hamas-palestinian-authority-west-bank/

Abbas Can’t Solve Gaza or Make Peace

Even if we were to take it as a given that Abbas is as dedicated to peace as some of his American and Jewish friends claim him to be, the notion that it has been Netanyahu’s disdain for the PA leader that has prevented peace is absurd. Throughout his years in power Abbas has had two key objectives: to portray himself as a peacemaker to the West and to avoid being trapped in any negotiations with Israel that might obligate him to sign a deal that would recognize the legitimacy of a Jewish state and end the conflict for all time. That’s why he fled the 2008 peace talks with Ehud Olmert even after Netanyahu’s predecessor offered virtually all of the West Bank and much of Jerusalem. It’s also why he boycotted peace talks from 2009 to 2013 and then fled them again at the first opportunity this spring when he signed a unity pact with Hamas rather than peace with Israel

The unfortunate reality is that Abbas knows that even unsuccessful attempts to slaughter Jews—such as Hamas’s shooting of more than 4,000 rockets at Israeli cities or its attempt to use tunnels to pull off terrorist atrocities—boosts its credibility as the party that is doing the most to “resist” Israel. When Hamas talks about ending the “occupation” they are not referring to the West Bank (which the Palestinians could have had as long ago as 2000 when Israel made its first peace offer) but all of pre-June 1967 Israel, a stance that resonates more with the Palestinian street than Abbas’s clever equivocations.

The vast majority of Israelis know that any withdrawals on the West Bank would probably mean the creation of a larger and more dangerous version of the mess in Gaza. That is something no rational government of any kind would countenance.

[ggold]

ggold (threa full..sorry)

If you want to talk ethnic cleansing talk about ISIS/ISIL.

No thanks. I think we have another thread for that. I am discussing the OP.

Oh and Hamas will never recognise Israel secular or otherwise.

Perhaps Israel should do what European MPS did...try asking them.

Haniyeh: Hamas willing to accept Palestinian state with 1967 borders

Hamas leader in Gaza addressed group of European MPs who sailed to Strip to protest Israel's blockade.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh-hamas-willing-to-accept-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915

Israelis are there to stay and so is the elephant in the room...the 2.5 million Palestinians under occupation in the West Bank and 1.7 million Palestinians under blockade in Gaza.The population is growing and the problem is festering.

And the whole world is becoming more and more aware of Israel's unjust treatment.

For all the acrobatic semantics, mythologizing of history, obstacle building, besmirching of critics by Israeli apologists, the truth will out.

"No thanks. I think we have another thread for that. I am discussing the OP".

You could at least of commented that the situation in Syria and Iraq is closer to ethnic cleansing compared to your claims over Israel, without going off topic. I think comparisons are allowed to be made?

As I said there is no milage in it for you!

I'll leave the acrobatic semantics. mythologizing of history, etc to our resident Arab Propagandist. Abbas would be proud of you, maybe the Ayatollahs would be also?

Edited May 24, 2015 by Scott

[dexterm]

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/2014/08/27/abbas-cant-solve-gaza-or-make-peace-hamas-palestinian-authority-west-bank/

Abbas Can’t Solve Gaza or Make Peace

Even if we were to take it as a given that Abbas is as dedicated to peace as some of his American and Jewish friends claim him to be, the notion that it has been Netanyahu’s disdain for the PA leader that has prevented peace is absurd. Throughout his years in power Abbas has had two key objectives: to portray himself as a peacemaker to the West and to avoid being trapped in any negotiations with Israel that might obligate him to sign a deal that would recognize the legitimacy of a Jewish state and end the conflict for all time. That’s why he fled the 2008 peace talks with Ehud Olmert even after Netanyahu’s predecessor offered virtually all of the West Bank and much of Jerusalem. It’s also why he boycotted peace talks from 2009 to 2013 and then fled them again at the first opportunity this spring when he signed a unity pact with Hamas rather than peace with Israel

The unfortunate reality is that Abbas knows that even unsuccessful attempts to slaughter Jews—such as Hamas’s shooting of more than 4,000 rockets at Israeli cities or its attempt to use tunnels to pull off terrorist atrocities—boosts its credibility as the party that is doing the most to “resist” Israel. When Hamas talks about ending the “occupation” they are not referring to the West Bank (which the Palestinians could have had as long ago as 2000 when Israel made its first peace offer) but all of pre-June 1967 Israel, a stance that resonates more with the Palestinian street than Abbas’s clever equivocations.

The vast majority of Israelis know that any withdrawals on the West Bank would probably mean the creation of a larger and more dangerous version of the mess in Gaza. That is something no rational government of any kind would countenance.

I would prefer to hear your own thoughts on the subject, rather than the copy and pasting of huge chunks from a clearly biased source (btw riddled with inaccuracies), which "Benjamin Balint describes it as the 'Contentious Magazine That Transformed the Jewish Left Into the Neoconservative Right' "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commentary_(magazine)

[ggold]

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/2014/08/27/abbas-cant-solve-gaza-or-make-peace-hamas-palestinian-authority-west-bank/

Abbas Can’t Solve Gaza or Make Peace

Even if we were to take it as a given that Abbas is as dedicated to peace as some of his American and Jewish friends claim him to be, the notion that it has been Netanyahu’s disdain for the PA leader that has prevented peace is absurd. Throughout his years in power Abbas has had two key objectives: to portray himself as a peacemaker to the West and to avoid being trapped in any negotiations with Israel that might obligate him to sign a deal that would recognize the legitimacy of a Jewish state and end the conflict for all time. That’s why he fled the 2008 peace talks with Ehud Olmert even after Netanyahu’s predecessor offered virtually all of the West Bank and much of Jerusalem. It’s also why he boycotted peace talks from 2009 to 2013 and then fled them again at the first opportunity this spring when he signed a unity pact with Hamas rather than peace with Israel

The unfortunate reality is that Abbas knows that even unsuccessful attempts to slaughter Jews—such as Hamas’s shooting of more than 4,000 rockets at Israeli cities or its attempt to use tunnels to pull off terrorist atrocities—boosts its credibility as the party that is doing the most to “resist” Israel. When Hamas talks about ending the “occupation” they are not referring to the West Bank (which the Palestinians could have had as long ago as 2000 when Israel made its first peace offer) but all of pre-June 1967 Israel, a stance that resonates more with the Palestinian street than Abbas’s clever equivocations.

The vast majority of Israelis know that any withdrawals on the West Bank would probably mean the creation of a larger and more dangerous version of the mess in Gaza. That is something no rational government of any kind would countenance.

I would prefer to hear your own thoughts on the subject, rather than the copy and pasting of huge chunks from a clearly biased source (btw riddled with inaccuracies), which "Benjamin Balint describes it as the 'Contentious Magazine That Transformed the Jewish Left Into the Neoconservative Right' "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commentary_(magazine)

Actaully if you take the time to read the whole article you will see it is even handed. Maybe you don't like the truth when it is presented to you?

Please don't talk about credible links, when using Wiki for your own myth backing propaganda.

I would prefer if you stopped the propaganda, If you were to give your own opinion and is wasn't couched in rhetoric which is nothing but propaganda then people might have a discussion of the topic rather than Propaganda which is obviously aimed at delegitimizing Israel.

Your Rhetoric is so close to that of the Arabs you are a reflection of the problem. You are the proof that peace is not possible because I don't read compromise in anything you say. It is 100% propaganda.

[Ulysses G.]

Haniyeh: Hamas willing to accept Palestinian state with 1967 borders

This is the same stupid deal you keep touting. Read it carefully. It says nothing about a two-state solution. Hamas says that they are willing to accept a PALESTINIAN State - they still do not recognize Israel - and they offer nothing but a temporary truce that could last only one day. In other words, Hamas gets a terrorist base state and Israel gets nothing.and its back to war the next day.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

The Palestinians have waited almost 100 years now for self determination.

If they do not recognize Israel as a Jewish state, renounce terrorism and sign a comprehensive peace deal, they will be waiting forever. They have failed in combat. They have failed in economic terms. They have failed at pretty much everything. Israel is a success and holds all the cards.

A palestinian state could never survive on it's own. It would need Israel to keep it a viable nation state. It could not survive if it relied on Jordan for it's economic prosperity.

They need Israel more than Israel needs them. But even Abbas can't make Peace. he would be a traitor in Arab eyes.

No denying at all that a future Palestine would benefit enormously from an intertwining of economies. The benefits of peace would be astronomical.

Tel Aviv would be the financial, technological, reconstruction, tourism and industrial hub of the entire Middle East. Israel is going to need lots of labor to deal with the boom.

What better way of healing the wounds of 100 years of bitterness, by both states enjoying 100% employment. No need for sour grapes. And no idle hands to make trouble.

[dexterm]

Haniyeh: Hamas willing to accept Palestinian state with 1967 borders

This is the same stupid deal you keep touting. Read it carefully. It says nothing about a two-state solution. Hamas says that they are willing to accept a PALESTINIAN State - they still do not recognize Israel - and they offer nothing but a temporary truce that could last only one day. In other words, Hamas gets a terrorist base state and Israel gets nothing.and its back to war the next day.

But it's a start isn't it? I am sure there would be lots more negotiations before a deal could be clinched.

The longest journey begins with the first step.

[Ulysses G.]

Haniyeh: Hamas willing to accept Palestinian state with 1967 borders

This is the same stupid deal you keep touting. Read it carefully. It says nothing about a two-state solution. Hamas says that they are willing to accept a PALESTINIAN State - they still do not recognize Israel - and they offer nothing but a temporary truce that could last only one day. In other words, Hamas gets a terrorist base state and Israel gets nothing.and its back to war the next day.

But it's a start isn't it?

No. It is the same stupid Hamas lies. Them giving nothing and hoping that someone is foolish enough to think that they are negotiating in good faith.

[ggold]

The Palestinians have waited almost 100 years now for self determination.

If they do not recognize Israel as a Jewish state, renounce terrorism and sign a comprehensive peace deal, they will be waiting forever. They have failed in combat. They have failed in economic terms. They have failed at pretty much everything. Israel is a success and holds all the cards.

A palestinian state could never survive on it's own. It would need Israel to keep it a viable nation state. It could not survive if it relied on Jordan for it's economic prosperity.

They need Israel more than Israel needs them. But even Abbas can't make Peace. he would be a traitor in Arab eyes.

No denying at all that a future Palestine would benefit enormously from an intertwining of economies. The benefits of peace would be astronomical.

Tel Aviv would be the financial, technological, reconstruction, tourism and industrial hub of the entire Middle East. Israel is going to need lots of labor to deal with the boom.

What better way of healing the wounds of 100 years of bitterness, by both states enjoying 100% employment. No need for sour grapes. And no idle hands to make trouble.

I think the ordinary citizen Israeli or Arab Just want to get on with their lives in Peace. That is the fault of both Israeli and Arab politicians. It is a shame that the Arabs didn't take tha advantage of turning Gaza into the place it could be. They had the chance, If they had shown they wanted to Turn Gaza into an oasis, Israel and Egypt wouldn't be blockading Gaza. Abbas isn't strong enough to fight Hamas, is he?

Israels business plan has worked even with the ongoing troubles, The Arabs have kept themselves in limbo, Addas keeps his own people from progress they are just pawns in the Arabs aims over Israel.

Netanyahu is the right person at this time in history, But I think it won't be him that will make peace, But Abbas is also the wrong person to make peace with. He has boxed himself into a corner. Like Arrafat he will run in another direction when it comes to putting pen on paper.

Israel is willing to make peace, it could even leave the Arabs to fester in there failed state which would probably be split between Israel and Jordan at that time. That would be the irony on the whole situation. Israel can make or break a palestinian state.

I would hope the Arabs find a leader who cares for his people rather than holding them back from progress. Abbas is not liked even by his own people.

[dexterm]

I agree 100% that the majority of Palestinians and Israelis want to get on with their lives in peace. And that what we need is another Yitzhak Rabin and a Nelson Mandela type to negotiate it. Perhaps Isaac Herzog will fill the shoes next election when the present government collapses.

Your idea that Israel could ultimately take as much as it likes of the Occupied West Bank and dump 2.5 million Palestinians that it doesn't want in Jordan is a non starter.

It is illegal under the Geneva Convention, Jordan would not agree to it, the majority of the world community who already recognize Palestine as a state would not unrecognize it just to please Israeli ethnic cleansers. Nor would it create a permanent peace for Israel within secure recognized borders anyway. Because no-one to sign up for it.

No, I am afraid Israel has a got real problem on its hands, and in the words of the OP it had better start looking at realistic options.

[Ulysses G.]

Israel has had a problem on it's hands since long before it declared independence - a bunch of ignorant parasites who seem incapable of doing anything positive to improve their own lives. However, the Palestinians are the ones who mostly end up paying for their own mistakes by sticking to the status quo and refusing to make peace.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[BKKBobby]

The Palestinians have waited almost 100 years now for self determination.

If they do not recognize Israel as a Jewish state, renounce terrorism and sign a comprehensive peace deal, they will be waiting forever. They have failed in combat. They have failed in economic terms. They have failed at pretty much everything. Israel is a success and holds all the cards.

The Palestinian and even Hezbollahs resistance movments would love to switch militairy gear and tactics with IDF and give you a promise that they only will use conventional warfare (heavy handed use of conventional weapons and tactics is acceptable according to Israel - they never gives any appologies or real excuses - the excuses always put the blame on the enemy, such as supposed use of human shields or some such)

If Israeli jews were in the opposite position they would use unconventional warfare as the jews that were the pioneers of Zionism did 70 years ago.

Imagine who would be the new "terrorists" if Palestinians and Hezbollah switches military gear with the Israeli military.

Israel would have to resort to terrorism, because as people said, well they aint going anywhere this time. You can only use what you have available.

This was a thought experiment

Edited May 24, 2015 by BKKBobby

[chuckd]

What in the world gave some of you people the insane idea that war is supposed to be FAIR???

The object of warfare is to kill people and to kill them at a fast enough rate that the threat they impose no longer exists. Hopefully you will accomplish this deed before you no longer exist.

When Palestine gets tired of losing, perhaps they will stop goading a sleeping beast.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."

George S. Patton

[Jingthing]

Yes, if you're taking the same or more casualties than your enemy in war, you are LOSING.

Understood that many Israel demonizers are cheering on the terrorist enemies of Israel like Hamas to do just that, kill more Jews.
Sorry, we're not fooled.

Hamas ..., disarm, give up the Jihadist goal of kicking the Jews out of Israel, and then there can be real talks.

[Ulysses G.]

The Palestinians have waited almost 100 years now for self determination.

If they do not recognize Israel as a Jewish state, renounce terrorism and sign a comprehensive peace deal, they will be waiting forever. They have failed in combat. They have failed in economic terms. They have failed at pretty much everything. Israel is a success and holds all the cards.

The Palestinian and even Hezbollahs resistance movments would love to switch militairy gear and tactics with IDF and give you a promise that they only will use conventional warfare

Malarkey. The Palestinians always used terrorism, even when they vastly outnumbered the Jews, were better armed and and even when they had 7 Arab armies backing them up. They still LOST. They have started numerous wars under different conditions with numerous Arab allies as well as Soviet arms and sponsors and they LOST every single one of them.

The Jews started out as the underdogs, but kept learning and working and getting better. They kept improving their military and working on their countries' economy. The Palestinian Arabs started out way ahead of them and ended up way behind. As usual, the Palestinians have mostly themselves to blame for how they have ended up broke, full of hate and and as utter failures, begging for a pretend country that they can not establish or finance themselves.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

There is blame on both sides but clearly it would have been a win win in 1948 if the Arab and Muslim world just said, OK, let's try to bend with this and try out accepting Israel instead of instantly invading.

[Seastallion]

What in the world gave some of you people the insane idea that war is supposed to be FAIR???

The object of warfare is to kill people and to kill them at a fast enough rate that the threat they impose no longer exists. Hopefully you will accomplish this deed before you no longer exist.

When Palestine gets tired of losing, perhaps they will stop goading a sleeping beast.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."

George S. Patton

Nobody has said "fair", and most people refer to a thing called The Geneva Convention. There's also human rights treaties and conventions, and basic human ethics.

And you are very wrong...the aim of warfare is not to kill people....it is to conquer territory or to get rid of a threat.

It's very telling that you think what you think.

[Ulysses G.]

Nobody has said "fair", and most people refer to a thing called The Geneva Convention. There's also human rights treaties and conventions, and basic human ethics.

All of which the Palestinian terrorists have happily ignored when it comes to anyone but themselves. To them, these are weapons to be used against their enemies, but not something that guides their own actions in any way. Apparently these hypocrites do not realize that when it comes to war, turn about is fair play.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[sirineou]

There is blame on both sides but clearly it would have been a win win in 1948 if the Arab and Muslim world just said, OK, let's try to bend with this and try out accepting Israel instead of instantly invading.

I agree, they never learn from history

If the American Indians had stopped fighting the white man, had "bend" over and used some Vaseline, it would had being a "win win" situation

Edited May 24, 2015 by sirineou

[Ulysses G.]

At least, there might be more than a few of them left.

[chuckd]

Exactly how does one army "conquer territory" without killing the enemy on the way?

Even the French lost 100,000 troops during the WWII war that saw them surrender the entire nation in one week.

Edit in: I am what I am. If people don't like that, then my suggestion is to stop responding to my posts.

Edited May 24, 2015 by chuckd

[Jingthing]

At least, there might be more than a few of them left.

Totally different situations.

Jewish people are indigenous to Israel.

No point in even playing into the Israel demonization big lie that Jews are "white" invading colonialists of the dark natives.

Colonialists for what country?

What language did the Israelis make alive again?

Hebrew.

Where was Hebrew from?

Morocco? France? Poland?

No.

It came from the land that is Israel.

Looking for colonialist boogeymen in that region?

Look further back.

The Brits, the Turks, then there are the Romans.

Stop picking on the Jews.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Jingthing

[Seastallion]

Exactly how does one army "conquer territory" without killing the enemy on the way?

Even the French lost 100,000 troops during the WWII war that saw them surrender the entire nation in one week.

Edit in: I am what I am. If people don't like that, then my suggestion is to stop responding to my posts.

Tut tut.....you specifically said "the AIM of war is TO KILL".

Nobody has suggested that no deaths occur in a war.

Maybe (actually, definitely) some soldiers do kill for the sake of it, be they ISIS, IDF, or US forces.....but it is not (or should not) be the aim of a war....that would be ethnic cleansing....Is that what you are suggesting has been happening when Israel kills Palestinian civilians in their thousands?

I agree with you...you are what you are. No doubt about it.

[Neurath]

Neurath (thread full),

That should be the other way around surely?

...no, Israel is the one that claims it is surrounded by enemies.

That is why there is no peace.

..no, Palestinians and the surrounding Arab countries have offered a complete peace treaty with Israel since 2002, free trade, exchange of ambassadors the works. The ball has always been in Israel's court.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

You could not even admit the Arabs caused their own missery by not accepting a State of Israel.

..In the proposed UN Partition why should the Palestinians have agreed to give away 56% of their land to 33% of the population who were illegal immigrants? Would you?

Yasser Arafat and subsequent PA governments Have recognized the State of Israel since 1993.

The Palestinians have compromised enough. they have seen their land diminish from 3% Jewish ownership in 1922 to 100% occupation today.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/demograhics.html

They have seen their land, population and their culture swamped by Zionists invaders who came not as invited guests but to establish a Jewish State in someone else's land. Which they have succeeded in doing.

It is time Israel did some compromising, for starters by not being so greedy.

If in their avarice for land they want the lot, then accept the Palestinian population now under occupation as equal citizens that you have inherited through your conquest. Or compromise justly in a 2 state solution.

You were responding to Mr. ggold, not I. Surely you could not have mistaken us. How hurt I am.