Immigration Confirms The End Of Border Runs From Oct 1, 2006

[Mark Wolfe]

Joka: They made a mistake in your favor, go give thanks at a temple.

motivation is pretty obvious: you have the indian from UK who cut up his kids and came to live in thailand, and you have john karr child molester teaching tots english in bkk, and you have a million guys walking around with last nights date all over bkk.

So that means that Sunbelt and the others sponsering Non-imm O visas will be shut off?

The "hiding out" crowd is minscule and not even a consideration in forming (or as it were, enforcing) immigration policy.

Of course, you can always just overstay and pay under the table to make it go away.

[Totster]

also, looking at my last stamp from Malaysia from two weeks ago, i notice that i had been given a three month(90 days) stamp. all my other stamps have been for 30 days. has anyone else received the 90 stamp from Malaysia?

BE VERY CAREFUL.

I may be wrong, but if you don't hold the correct visa for 90 days then you are not entitled to it.. even if it says so in your passport.

My point is that when you leave Thailand, you may find yourself on 60 day overstay

totster

p.s.. might i suggest that you post this in the Thai visas, residency and work permits section and see what people think there.

[Beachedwhale]

and those who fall in the cracks (like my friend whose bar is not doing well and doesn't have the cash in the bank for a marriage visa, even though he is -- with a one-year-old son) will have to think long and hard about how to keep the relationship going.

My understanding is that if you are on a valid visa have a work permit and want to get a marriage visa it is not necessary to have the money in the bank per se. In your accounting for your bar, if you pay yourself a monthly salary of THB60k and pay the appropriate taxes on it for a reasonable period (say the length of yor first O visa) then you can get the marriage visa (this will still take time to get through the approval process as all of them do - but it works as I got one this way and never showed any bank statements). Obviously whether you actually take the full salary out or reinvest it back into the bar is up to you. If the bar cannot sustain that level (of taxes for the documented monthly salary) or your friend is operating a bar while on a tourist visa then I will make no more comment ...

[DerringDo]

Here's the face saving caveat:

"Pol Lt-Gen Suwat said the new VOA rules will be put into effect once approved by the Royal Thai Police Office."

There is just a tiny chance it won't happen or that there will be "consultations" on the issue. (Taken from the BKK Post article.)

[libya 115]

A while ago I did a Pattaya-Poi Pet visa run on a minibus. The British guy next to me showed me his passport; it was just Cambodia visas and 30 day Thai entry stamps: he said he had been doing 30 day visa runs for nearly 2 years.

I think the cheapest visa run is 2000 baht: so that is approx. 24,000 baht a year, plus a lot of hassle. He said he was living off some kind of invalidity/disablement pension.

Now, there must a lot of people who do continuous 30 day visa runs: not all of them 'bad eggs': Some actually enjoy the trip and enjoy the day out.

So, maybe they are on the wrong visa, yet surely far better would be for more scrutiny of proof of income and more prosecution of illegal workers?

As a previous poster said; more innocents will end up inconvenienced than 'rogues'.

Plus: complications to this new ruling will cause some problems to people who are bona fide tourists or wealthy 'long-stayers'.

[PeaceBlondie]

The entire fiasco about J. M. Carr caused Thailand to lose face, big time. We will never know the truth about the Carr details, but the face damage required a reaction.

To John K and the others who asked about the teachers, it's hard to say. Many of them are ignoring this, because they've learned to ignore opening statements by Thai officials. From those teachers, we could learn a lesson.

As for the economics, I say again: price is inelastic. There is no demand for 50K English teachers, just 30K, 15K, and 115K. Ninety percent of the Thai schools will not pay over 45K; many now balk at paying more than 25K. They will get cheaper labour, such as Filipinos and, if that also drys up as a cheap labour source, they will just have the few remaining Thai-trained Thai teachers of English keep saying in Thai or Thailish, "Open your books to page sahm-sip si."

If this all blows over, you've still got a huge number of farang English teachers who are spooked. They're far less likely to start a new job without a proper long-term visa in hand, along with a work permit in hand, by the end of the first pay period, or by the end of the first teaching hour.

I'm not saying that Thai school administrators are slow, dull, stupid, or ignorant. But they are slow to change, slow to do new work, and slow to pay more money. Painfully slow, and they don't take instructions from farang, usually.

As for timing, I'll give 1000 baht to the first Thai official I see, if these 'new procedures' are clear on 1 October 2006.

[joka]

The stamp was to stay in Malaysia for 90 days, not Thailand. And looking back through my passport, I actually have several of these 90 day stamps.

[Maestro]

And what happens it's not 90 days in a row ?

Then the new policy does not apply to you. Things remain the same for as they were before.

---------------

Maestro

[Totster]

The stamp was to stay in Malaysia for 90 days, not Thailand. And looking back through my passport, I actually have several of these 90 day stamps.

Right sorry... I misread it to mean you had a 90 stamp from Thai imm.

totster

[lung]

"Pol Lt-Gen Suwat said the new VOA rules will be put into effect once approved by the Royal Thai Police Office."

There is just a tiny chance it won't happen or that there will be "consultations" on the issue.

when a plane with "T" inside goes down

[sjaak327]

And what happens it's not 90 days in a row ?

Then the new policy does not apply to you. Things remain the same for as they were before.

---------------

Maestro

I'm just wondering, why you say it doesn't apply if it is not 90 days in a row. I mean, I read this as limiting an alien to three entries within a 90 day period, regardless of duration of stay.

But I could be wrong here.

[astral]

The process of checking entire passports for all entries and tallying to check 90 days incountry etc is just not feasable.

You are forgetting that Immigration already tracks all your comings and goings on the computer, which is linked to all ports and Immigration offices.

[rainman]

i have a 1-year "O" visa, so i'm not affected. but i'm also interested to hear if this "new change" (i just heard about it a few minutes ago) only concerns visa-on-arrival (30 day runners) or also those who make 3-month tourist visas from penang, laos, etc. i have a few friends who are young, not married and not working in that situation ...

[ChiangMaiThai]

Dr. Pat Pong, while you were three years early with all your talk of the impending end to the "poverty packers", it does appear that ultimately you were right. I'll have to buy you a drink one day.

Edited September 11, 2006 by ChiangMaiThai

[astral]

1. Personally, I work in the Caspian Sea on a platform on a 6/2 rota.

2. We don't have access to a Thai Embassy or Consulate to apply for a Non Imm O Visa.

3. It is not advisable (and illegal) to FEDEX your passport out of the country to another Embassy.

I did speak to an immigration officer previously before this news broke and was informed that even if I did get an Non Imm O Visa I had to stay in Thailand for 90 days before I could apply for a 9 month extension to make it a one year Visa. I can't see my company paying me to sit on the beach while I wait for the extension.

2 days in Penang will get you the Non O visa valid for 3 months.

You do not have to sit and wait for the 3 months to pass.

Go about your normal business.

If that is working overseas then get a re-entry permit to keep you visa alive.

Make sure you are in Thailand just before the 3 months is up to make your application for the 9 months extension.

This ruling is not aimed at people like you.

It is the out and back the same day visa runners who will suffer.

[ChiangMaiThai]

As for everyone who has been relying on monthly trips to the border, I have been in the same boat in the past and I have a couple comments.

1. Thaksin & Co. do not care about you and would prefer you leave. They want the kind of foreigner who gladly dishes out 10,000 baht+ a night for a hotel room, flys around the country, buys a lot of crap and then LEAVES. They don't want the people who survive on 20,000 or 30,000 baht a month. The high end tourists will spend this in a day or two.

2. Many people think that Thailand as we know it has come to an end in recent years. Things are changing, I agree. And this Thaksin idiot isn't helping anything. But I am of the opinion that if you want to stay in Thailand, there will always be a way. You have to let things pan out. A lot of the questions that are being asked now haven't even been considered by the Thais yet. It will take some time.

[VanZam]

I have noticed an increase in the number of people posting who have Thai wives etc but cannot afford the 400k for a Type O visa.

You DONT need 400k to get the 3 month visa, the money comes in when/if you want to extend it to a full year.

To get around this you can just leave every three months for another one.

[A_Traveller]

The things that strike me here are :-

By IB's own statements, maybe intentionally misleading, the computer system is only operational at 15 of the entry points.

Both the Immigration Act and 'transport law' provides that the airline has financial responsibility {not just return to origin} if entry is 'reasonably' refused. The present confusion suggests that there is not a workable structure in place for that. Without it any 'add up the days over the last year' technique would be, at best problematic. No carrier is going to expose themselves to such costs unless the authorities provide them with a precise managable framework within the constraints of check-in.

The Commissioner does seem to speak first and then expect his team to 'make it so'. However, in this case, unlike exit, there has to be agreement with the carriers about changes which could cost them money, unless, of course, the government agrees to indemnify them.

Still more to be heard on this, maybe there will be a delay in implementation, but it has been suggested to me that ultimately permanent tourists will not be tolerated any longer.

Regards

PS And yes Karr does have a lot to do with this happening now.

/edit PS added//

Edited September 11, 2006 by A_Traveller

[John K]

The entire fiasco about J. M. Carr caused Thailand to lose face, big time. We will never know the truth about the Carr details, but the face damage required a reaction.

To John K and the others who asked about the teachers, it's hard to say. Many of them are ignoring this, because they've learned to ignore opening statements by Thai officials. From those teachers, we could learn a lesson.

As for the economics, I say again: price is inelastic. There is no demand for 50K English teachers, just 30K, 15K, and 115K. Ninety percent of the Thai schools will not pay over 45K; many now balk at paying more than 25K. They will get cheaper labour, such as Filipinos and, if that also drys up as a cheap labour source, they will just have the few remaining Thai-trained Thai teachers of English keep saying in Thai or Thailish, "Open your books to page sahm-sip si."

If this all blows over, you've still got a huge number of farang English teachers who are spooked. They're far less likely to start a new job without a proper long-term visa in hand, along with a work permit in hand, by the end of the first pay period, or by the end of the first teaching hour.

I'm not saying that Thai school administrators are slow, dull, stupid, or ignorant. But they are slow to change, slow to do new work, and slow to pay more money. Painfully slow, and they don't take instructions from farang, usually.

As for timing, I'll give 1000 baht to the first Thai official I see, if these 'new procedures' are clear on 1 October 2006.

Good point that this is all face fallout, unfortunately the reaction looks like they will lose more face, votes, and money if it follows through. Yes the teacher will be traumatized and be on edge. But in discussions this is just a knee jerk reaction by the Thais without thinking more than one or two steps ahead on cause and effect. Given time things will return to the way they were. Simply everyone needs to eat and if the cash flow in changed there could be many people buying 5 ThB noodles at 7-11. The TRT wont want to do any damage to their voting base in Isaan. So if the teachers disappear there it will surly make the Isaan Thais more aware that what happens in Bangkok does effect them and they should pay attention to what is going on and why.

[rainman]

I have noticed an increase in the number of people posting who have Thai wives etc but cannot afford the 400k for a Type O visa.

You DONT need 400k to get the 3 month visa, the money comes in when/if you want to extend it to a full year.

To get around this you can just leave every three months for another one.

i have a friend who didn't want to get married, though he's been living with the same girlfriend for over 7 years. they live near the border so he's been doing border runs for over 5 years from what i understand. looks like its time to get married for him.

[Thaiquila]

OK, so Thai immigration reads this board.

Hello Thai immigration!

It is your country and your right to make the rules.

PLEASE decide and tell us CLEARLY exactly what the rules are. Otherwise, mass confusion and alot of people get hurt, including Thai families of farangs and Thai small businesses.

Otherwise, these things will happen:

-- Embassies and consulates all over the world won't know whether it is OK or not OK to grant tourist visas on many passports with many existing stamps/ tourist visas. There is a lot of confusion about whether time in Thailand on real tourists visa is counted in this crackdown.

-- Airlines won't know whether to board passengers with passports with many existing stamps/visas; they will likely unjustly deny boarding to many

-- You might consider, after clearly communicating the new rules, to offer a six month grace period of nonenforcement so that those that wish to and can get different kinds of visas can do so with the minimum amount of emotional and economic disruption

Well, thats a start of my list, I am sure there are others.

And while immigration might be reading, how about trying a modification of the Philippine system? Allow people to stay as long as one year one one month extensions to their 30 day stamps, and make such people visit immigration and pay a rather hefty monthly service fee. The fee after 90 days would include a much larger "investigation fee" in which an officer would interview the applicant about their activities in Thailand and proof of funds coming from abroad. Those suspected of illegal working could be selected for further investigation and prosecution. This way, Thailand would get rid of undesirable people and still keep the people who love Thailand very much, are spending their money in Thailand, and don't qualify for a more long term visa.

Oh, and while we are at it. How about lowering the retirement visa age to 30? That visa is mostly about showing money and not working in Thailand, yes? There are lots of Westerners who have the money and desire to retire in Thailand before age 50.

Edited September 11, 2006 by Thaiquila

[John K]

This could all very well be crony related. Unqualified people making decisions. I can’t say for sure but it would not surprise me. I don’t know what Thaksin has done in the immigration department.

If it looks to hurt Thaksin during the elections it will disappear faster that it showed up.

[Mobi]

Good point that this is all face fallout, unfortunately the reaction looks like they will lose more face, votes, and money if it follows through. Yes the teacher will be traumatized and be on edge. But in discussions this is just a knee jerk reaction by the Thais without thinking more than one or two steps ahead on cause and effect. Given time things will return to the way they were. Simply everyone needs to eat and if the cash flow in changed there could be many people buying 5 ThB noodles at 7-11. The TRT wont want to do any damage to their voting base in Isaan. So if the teachers disappear there it will surly make the Isaan Thais more aware that what happens in Bangkok does effect them and they should pay attention to what is going on and why.

You may be right , but I doubt it.

We had all this "wishful thinking" talk on the forum when the land crackdown started. "Just wait a few weeks and everything will be back to normal" etc. Well. if anything, it's got even worse, with additional measures being brought in from 15th August. Nobody is now suggesting that it will all blow over.

Do you seriously think anyone will start to think about some hypothetical "knock-on effect" in Issaan? Not a chance. Most Thais, including those from Issan, still believe that many of their woes are the fault of johnny foreigners, and any measures to stamp out alleged illegal practices will be accepted wihtout question.

At a guess, I would say there will be a greater impact on the economy from the crackdown on farangs owning houses, than there will be on this latest visa measure. If it just affects the "VOA's", then the impact will be almost non- existent, as all but the poorest will simply revert to the proper tourist visa route. If it stops all tourists staying for more than 90 days, there will obviously be a financial impact - but I doubt anyone really cares - especially the immigration Dept - it's not their problem.

[lung]

I have noticed an increase in the number of people posting who have Thai wives etc but cannot afford the 400k for a Type O visa.no need 400k you can just leave every three months for another one.

but you have to marriage "proper" or not ..

But I am of the opinion that if you want to stay in Thailand, there will always be a way.

for shure ...

[Big Dogster]

By far the best and most cogent argument on the subject today, and posted by a 50% farang / 50% thai.

Well said, that man.

Cheques in the mail :-)

Honestly, if someone started spouting this sort of stuff in New Zealand (where I grew up) the VERY next thing said would be:

'Well if you don't effin like it, then eff off'

I don't think that is quite the right attitude here, but honestly, do the people doing perpetual visa runs honestly think they were going to be doing that for ever>?

Get the right Visa lads, and you'll all be fine

Cheers.

I always love to hear people compare the visa policies of "civilized coutries" to Thailand. Got news for you, Thailand is not a civilized country so don't bother with such comparisons. Do you comparisons to PI, Cambodia and the like. Sheesus

[pattaya_girl]

well, well, well. we are off again !!!!!

i have been watching this thread since page one and now its up to page 30.

i have lived in pattaya for over 5 years and have seen changes made so very very often. changes that are costly for us, and inconvenient also. changes that we must adhere to else we are in big trouble. let hope it will change again soon.

amazing thailand ! it certainly is at times...... THE LAND OF SMILES.

[VanZam]

I have noticed an increase in the number of people posting who have Thai wives etc but cannot afford the 400k for a Type O visa.no need 400k you can just leave every three months for another one.

but you have to marriage "proper" or not ..

Well to get the visa you usually have to produce a marriage cert, although I know people who have managed to get non-immigrant O visas with just a smile. However I think you'd be pushing your luck if you had to do that every 3 months.

[Meg_2003]

Sick of this garbage.. They certainly know how to make their visitors feel unwelcome !!

[meemiathai]

Some people are bad mouthing Thailand for this crackdown. They should look at immigration laws to western countries and see how Thailand, even with the crackdown, is much more liberal than US, UK and Europe to name a few places.

Some also might want to check out Malaysia's Second Home Program. Lots of good benefits to moving to Malaysia, but there are rules and a different set of problems than Thailand has.

Yes but Europe, the US and the UK are rich countries. They can be as picky as they want . Thailand should be what it always was and why people love it so much , because its sleezy or smart whatever you want it to be . Everyone can get in and spend their money in Thailand.

I hope that this leads to a noticeable fall in tourism and foreigners staying in LOS and they start to lose loads of FOREX , after which they will see the stupidity of what they have done and leave well alone.

Thailand should, IMO, let all and sundry in , even the so-called undesirables , because they all spend money , and thats all that matters for the prosperity of Thailand

Trolling?

[cikeda]

I come to Thailand for pleasure each month. Sometimes 1 week sometimes up to several weeks depend on my schedule. According to what I read here, people like me can come for pleasure 3 times only and cannot come for 90 days?? This policy is just too rediculous, must be out of some monkey brain. Because I know many friends, European expats in HK, Singapore, Taiwan, Brunei, ect, come Thailand for pleasure every month, some people only work a few days a month, and spend their big chunks of money in Thailand for pleasure. Are we in this group also affected??

Like you, I come to Thailand every month as I've moved to a more lucrative market, HK. I am in Thailand usually for a few days, sometimes as much as a week. So I am only allowed to come 3 times then I have to take a 3 month break?

To hel_l with that.

A handful of friends and I are in the same boat as you guys. We visit Thailand much more than 3 times a year and stay for a week at a time and average at least 200K BHT per visit ... we can afford it. Too bad this had to happen but we'll abid by the decision of the country. We talked about visiting other ASEAN countries and I guess now we'll be actually visiting instead of talking about those visits. Good luck to LOS on their decision.