Immigration Confirms The End Of Border Runs From Oct 1, 2006

[pattaya_girl]

dare i sleep tonight in case another regulation has come out.

gosh !!! what next.....

the land of smiles - the only smile i see is the cashier in the immigration office.

"they might be sorry one day, who knows !!!! "

[VanZam]

A handful of friends and I are in the same boat as you guys. We visit Thailand much more than 3 times a year and stay for a week at a time and average at least 200K BHT per visit ... we can afford it. Too bad this had to happen but we'll abid by the decision of the country. We talked about visiting other ASEAN countries and I guess now we'll be actually visiting instead of talking about those visits. Good luck to LOS on their decision.

If you spend 200k per visit, then I'm sure the 1000 baht fee for a tourist visa before you come will be no problem.

[Big Dogster]

As for everyone who has been relying on monthly trips to the border, I have been in the same boat in the past and I have a couple comments.

1. Thaksin & Co. do not care about you and would prefer you leave. They want the kind of foreigner who gladly dishes out 10,000 baht+ a night for a hotel room, flys around the country, buys a lot of crap and then LEAVES. They don't want the people who survive on 20,000 or 30,000 baht a month. The high end tourists will spend this in a day or two.

2. Many people think that Thailand as we know it has come to an end in recent years. Things are changing, I agree. And this Thaksin idiot isn't helping anything. But I am of the opinion that if you want to stay in Thailand, there will always be a way. You have to let things pan out. A lot of the questions that are being asked now haven't even been considered by the Thais yet. It will take some time.

RE: point #1...I would say then if the Gov't doesn't want the people surviving on 15, 20, 30K per month then it's time for them to go after the marriage visa people. These requirements are the lowest and many of these folks are the true poverty packers living on spit each month. Just go thru and read a cost of living thread on TV and you will see what I mean. They should triple or quadruple those requirements to truly weed out the low lives. I will prepare my e-mails to be sent with documentation from this site on this issue to be sent on this matter the day I have to leave due to enforcement of these regulations (if that happens).

[pattaya_girl]

1000 baht fee for a tourist visa - maybe...

but how much does it cost to go out and get that visa !

its not just a thousand baht finished......

if only it was that simple.......

[jdinasia]

As for everyone who has been relying on monthly trips to the border, I have been in the same boat in the past and I have a couple comments.

1. Thaksin & Co. do not care about you and would prefer you leave. They want the kind of foreigner who gladly dishes out 10,000 baht+ a night for a hotel room, flys around the country, buys a lot of crap and then LEAVES. They don't want the people who survive on 20,000 or 30,000 baht a month. The high end tourists will spend this in a day or two.

2. Many people think that Thailand as we know it has come to an end in recent years. Things are changing, I agree. And this Thaksin idiot isn't helping anything. But I am of the opinion that if you want to stay in Thailand, there will always be a way. You have to let things pan out. A lot of the questions that are being asked now haven't even been considered by the Thais yet. It will take some time.

RE: point #1...I would say then if the Gov't doesn't want the people surviving on 15, 20, 30K per month then it's time for them to go after the marriage visa people. These requirements are the lowest and many of these folks are the true poverty packers living on spit each month. Just go thru and read a cost of living thread on TV and you will see what I mean. They should triple or quadruple those requirements to truly weed out the low lives. I will prepare my e-mails to be sent with documentation from this site on this issue to be sent on this matter the day I have to leave due to enforcement of these regulations (if that happens).

Hmmm the "marraige visa" extension requires 40k a month or 400k in the bank But really .... please send your info ... they'll need a good laugh at the office that day!

[cikeda]

A handful of friends and I are in the same boat as you guys. We visit Thailand much more than 3 times a year and stay for a week at a time and average at least 200K BHT per visit ... we can afford it. Too bad this had to happen but we'll abid by the decision of the country. We talked about visiting other ASEAN countries and I guess now we'll be actually visiting instead of talking about those visits. Good luck to LOS on their decision.

If you spend 200k per visit, then I'm sure the 1000 baht fee for a tourist visa before you come will be no problem.

If all it takes is an expenditure of 1K BHT for a toursist visa to extend beyond the 3 visits per year, it is no problem.

[Big Dogster]

OK, so Thai immigration reads this board.

Hello Thai immigration!

It is your country and your right to make the rules.

PLEASE decide and tell us CLEARLY exactly what the rules are. Otherwise, mass confusion and alot of people get hurt, including Thai families of farangs and Thai small businesses.

Otherwise, these things will happen:

-- Embassies and consulates all over the world won't know whether it is OK or not OK to grant tourist visas on many passports with many existing stamps/ tourist visas. There is a lot of confusion about whether time in Thailand on real tourists visa is counted in this crackdown.

-- Airlines won't know whether to board passengers with passports with many existing stamps/visas; they will likely unjustly deny boarding to many

-- You might consider, after clearly communicating the new rules, to offer a six month grace period of nonenforcement so that those that wish to and can get different kinds of visas can do so with the minimum amount of emotional and economic disruption

Well, thats a start of my list, I am sure there are others.

And while immigration might be reading, how about trying a modification of the Philippine system? Allow people to stay as long as one year one one month extensions to their 30 day stamps, and make such people visit immigration and pay a rather hefty monthly service fee. The fee after 90 days would include a much larger "investigation fee" in which an officer would interview the applicant about their activities in Thailand and proof of funds coming from abroad. Those suspected of illegal working could be selected for further investigation and prosecution. This way, Thailand would get rid of undesirable people and still keep the people who love Thailand very much, are spending their money in Thailand, and don't qualify for a more long term visa.

Oh, and while we are at it. How about lowering the retirement visa age to 30? That visa is mostly about showing money and not working in Thailand, yes? There are lots of Westerners who have the money and desire to retire in Thailand before age 50.

No Tequila, that's all too logical

[Thaiquila]

A handful of friends and I are in the same boat as you guys. We visit Thailand much more than 3 times a year and stay for a week at a time and average at least 200K BHT per visit ... we can afford it. Too bad this had to happen but we'll abid by the decision of the country. We talked about visiting other ASEAN countries and I guess now we'll be actually visiting instead of talking about those visits. Good luck to LOS on their decision.

If you spend 200k per visit, then I'm sure the 1000 baht fee for a tourist visa before you come will be no problem.

If all it takes is an expenditure of 1K BHT for a toursist visa to extend beyond the 3 visits per year, it is no problem.

Huh?

That sounds silly.

You have to leave Thailand to get a tourist visa.

And nobody knows whether Penang will issue tourist visas to people with passports full of 30 day chops, now, do they?

[baboon]

O.K, now it is the 30 days runners they seem to be after but what then? If Stickman and Tv posters predictions prove correct there will be a rush of bogus marriages which will sooner or later come to the attention of the authorities. What then? Proof your marriage is legitemate? How can most people prove that? First they came for the Jews and I didnt care because I am not Jewish.......

Seems to me now it could be any one of us at any time.....

[VanZam]

1000 baht fee for a tourist visa - maybe...

but how much does it cost to go out and get that visa !

its not just a thousand baht finished......

if only it was that simple.......

Welcome to ThaiVisa Pattaya_girl...

Well the poster claimed to spend 200k per week long holiday, complaining about the entry permit regulations but not bothering to get a real visa just seems a bit lazy.

This entire topic revolves around free entry permits, can still get tourist visas as normal.

Doesn't take long to put your passport in a fedex bag and call for a pickup.

[Thaiquila]

O.K, now it is the 30 days runners they seem to be after but what then? If Stickman and Tv posters predictions prove correct there will be a rush of bogus marriages which will sooner or later come to the attention of the authorities. What then? Proof your marriage is legitemate? How can most people prove that? First they came for the Jews and I didnt care because I am not Jewish.......

Seems to me now it could be any one of us at any time.....

Exactly, Baboon!

And some of my best friends are visa runners.

Maybe they need some PR help.

They are not "visa runners", they are

day trippers

stamp collecters

Cambodiaphiles

[pattaya_girl]

Doesn't take long to put your passport in a fedex bag and call for a pickup.

???????????

i dont understand you ! post my passport thats illegal isnt it ?

[Heng]

Is it that difficult to get a proper visa?

[Big Dogster]

O.K, now it is the 30 days runners they seem to be after but what then? If Stickman and Tv posters predictions prove correct there will be a rush of bogus marriages which will sooner or later come to the attention of the authorities. What then? Proof your marriage is legitemate? How can most people prove that? First they came for the Jews and I didnt care because I am not Jewish.......

Seems to me now it could be any one of us at any time.....

Bingo Bamboon, watch out marriage visa people, you think the sun is shining on you now. Changes will be coming with this type of visa with the mass influx of visa applications forced by this regulation. I see requirements getting goosed up to retirement level immediately followed by further goosing. So if any of you are applauding this new stuff, and I know some of you are, your celebration will be short lived. Oh and all you people with your cash in Thai Baht are gonna get hit with a decline as cash people leave. think about it, You're next

Edited September 11, 2006 by Big Dogster

[jdinasia]

O.K, now it is the 30 days runners they seem to be after but what then? If Stickman and Tv posters predictions prove correct there will be a rush of bogus marriages which will sooner or later come to the attention of the authorities. What then? Proof your marriage is legitemate? How can most people prove that? First they came for the Jews and I didnt care because I am not Jewish.......

Seems to me now it could be any one of us at any time.....

Bingo Bamboon, watch out marriage visa people, you think the sun is shining on you now. Changes will be coming with this type of visa with the mass influx of visa applications forced by this regulation. I see requirements getting goosed up to retirement level immediately followed by further goosing. So if any of you are applauding this new stuff, and I know some of you are, your celebration will be short lived. You're next suckers

Not thinking clearly on this one .....spousal support will likely be the last thing they mess with.

[rijkard]

sad end of an era really, nowhere to hang out indefinitely and avoid the modern world and alll its trappings ie proper visas. you can be self righteous all you want about it but just further evidence of the westernization of the world

[Big Dogster]

Yes it is illegal Pattaya girl

[VanZam]

Doesn't take long to put your passport in a fedex bag and call for a pickup.

???????????

i dont understand you ! post my passport thats illegal isnt it ?

Sorry I should be more clear, I'm talking about people who travel to Thailand as tourists more than 3 times in 90 days and will run into problems with entry permits.

Those people can still come to the Kingdom, by gaining a tourist visa at home before they come.

[baboon]

O.K, now it is the 30 days runners they seem to be after but what then? If Stickman and Tv posters predictions prove correct there will be a rush of bogus marriages which will sooner or later come to the attention of the authorities. What then? Proof your marriage is legitemate? How can most people prove that? First they came for the Jews and I didnt care because I am not Jewish.......

Seems to me now it could be any one of us at any time.....

Exactly, Baboon!

And some of my best friends are visa runners.

Maybe they need some PR help.

They are not "visa runners", they are

day trippers

stamp collecters

Cambodiaphiles

Sorry mate, dont quite get your point. Can you clarify?

[markarthur]

Thanks for the Elite links, just had a read, but it's only 90 day visas, so not much use for me.

My personal gripe with Immigration are:-

1) RETIREMENT PENSION

I am retired early but since I am only in my 40's can't get a retirement pension even though I meet every other criteria

2) INVESTMENT

Sounds fine, but from my investigations that leaves 3 options.

a) FIXED DEPOSIT WITH GOVERNMENT BANK - virtually no interest at all

GOVERNMENT/STATE INDUSTRY BONDS - Would love to buy them, but have you tried! IF ANYONE HAS AN EASY PROCESS FOR THIS PLEASE POST NOW!

c) CONDO PURCHASE - IMHO not a particularly good investment at this time (prices doubled/tripled in last few years and heading for a crash or at least price freeze in the very near future). Also the idea of buying to rent here is a joke if you try to do it legally. LEGALLY you are liable for a lot of tax on both rent, property, as well as when buying and selling. Yes there are ways to avoid paying some of this, but do you really want to risk the implications of being caught?

Having worked here LEGALLY for many years in the past

(but never 3 consecutive years) I find myself (and I think many are the same) in the situation that my life, home, friends etc. are here, and the easiest way to deal with staying here recently has been multiple entry tourist visas.

I do not share other's interpretations that multiple entry visa's will be exempt from this declaration. At the very least, I see problems getting 2 consecutive multiple entry visas as a consulate, and worse case scenario, I can see people being told that after doing a same day border crossing, that they can't come back for another 90 days!

If anyone has a link to the EXACT Thai version of the statement (and English translation if there is one), please post it.

Once again, if anyone has an easy way to buy the Governemt bonds (which give about 4-5% return from my research, please post (I have tried TISCO and they have been pretty useless).

FWIW interest rates were raised recently and may be better at govm't banks. Dunno for sure but worth a look. (I know they were miserable before).

[Thaiquila]

sad end of an era really, nowhere to hang out indefinitely and avoid the modern world and alll its trappings ie proper visas. you can be self righteous all you want about it but just further evidence of the westernization of the world

Actually, there are other countries that welcome stamp collectors, I mean visa runners.

To my knowledge, some of these include

Philippines

Mexico

Argentina

Peru

Costa Rica

Spanish lessons, anyone?

I wonder if 20 years from now Burma will be the new Thailand.

Edited September 11, 2006 by Thaiquila

[wave]

I'm curious about how many people are doing monthly visa runs?

Does immigration actually know?

If we look at Bangkok there are maybe up to 10 "visa run" outfits. They either transport people via minibus (8-12 people) or double decker coach (25-35 people) and some run 2 trips a day. So maybe 350-400 people a day minimum. Lets add in Pattya (maybe the same number), Phuket, Samui, Koh Chang and Chiang Mai etc. There will also be people make the run independently. At least 100,000 people a month and more than likely a hel_l of a lot more. This will affect a lot of people.

Of course Thailand has a right to adopt whatever immigration policy it sees fit.

It does seem a somewhat irresponsible of Thai Immigration to slip this out through the English speaking press only 3 weeks prior to implementing this change of policy.

As noted by the many posts here the exact policy has not been confirmed. It would have been more responsible to announce the changes maybe 3-6 months in advance to allow people to organise their affairs.

But hey TIT!

[loveandlaughter]

I've done this myself and know others who are still doing visa runs.

This might be just the thin edge of the wedge as what if the "easy" visa places such as Hull, Cardiff, Colorado close and Non-B means "real" business sponsership? After all didn't some minister or police complain about undesirable farangs on 1 year visas?

As to English teachers......well I gather Taiwan lost it's shine, Japan was oh so long ago....Thailand never any money......Czech republic? Dubai?

[Big Dogster]

If you want to have a shot at it, be my guest.

I don't do opinion polls, but I think you'll find that most of BKK would be strongly in favour of this sort of enforcement; not everyone wants their country to be 'loser central'.

Guess that means you

[meom]

O.K, now it is the 30 days runners they seem to be after but what then? If Stickman and Tv posters predictions prove correct there will be a rush of bogus marriages which will sooner or later come to the attention of the authorities. What then? Proof your marriage is legitemate? How can most people prove that? First they came for the Jews and I didnt care because I am not Jewish.......

Seems to me now it could be any one of us at any time.....

Bingo Bamboon, watch out marriage visa people, you think the sun is shining on you now. Changes will be coming with this type of visa with the mass influx of visa applications forced by this regulation. I see requirements getting goosed up to retirement level immediately followed by further goosing. So if any of you are applauding this new stuff, and I know some of you are, your celebration will be short lived. You're next suckers

Not thinking clearly on this one .....spousal support will likely be the last thing they mess with.

I wouldn't bet on it. The government get all sorts of strange ideas so i wouldn't be surprised to see the financial requirements for marriage visa and pension visa to be increased in future.

[cclub75]

Sorry I should be more clear, I'm talking about people who travel to Thailand as tourists more than 3 times in 90 days and will run into problems with entry permits.

Gentlemen, we are going nowhere.

I went throught the thread, the paper in BKK Post, Forbes and the comment of Georges (who called an immigration "official")...

At that point, I think we still miss the most important data :

-A- some people understood that it's 3x30 days IN A ROW (= I stay in thailand 90 days, with 3 stamp of visa exemption, the stamp you get at airport)

-B- some people understood that it's 90 days CUMULATED per year (or per 180 days) (= I go thailand 2 weeks, then I go Singapore for business for 2 days, then go back Thailand for 1 week, then go vietnam, then go on the moon, then come back thailand for 2 more week etc. etc. etc)

A and B are completly different and have very different consequences.

So, actually, we need more information.

Then, we have also an uncertainty regarding the solution. Some people say : just get a proper visa (even a "tourist" one, for instance 60 or 90 days, the one you get in thai embassy).

To those people, I would say that it's unlikely because the purpose of the rule is to get rid of "professionnal tourists", AKA farang who stay looooong time with visa runs.

So i can't imagine Thai Immigration replacing visa runs with "accumulation" of visas. It makes no sense.

Voila.

So to sum' up : it's still the thai fog.

Edited September 11, 2006 by cclub75

[Big Dogster]

The whole point seems to be to reduce the number of long stayers who might be working (and probably not paying tax) without the correct visas.

Surely they should be reinforcing the labour laws not the immigration rules.

Or is that a dumb idea?

I have all the correct paperwork and pay my taxes before you ask.

Nope Pal, that's too logical and what is done in civilized countries. Why do something so sensible here. Oh wait, some people are saying that Thailand is enacting policies to be more like other countries

[markarthur]

Thanks for the clarification, although I would still like to hear from someone who has actually done it.

I also note that (even though it is also in the family section) they say as usual but very concerningly "The visa privilege conditions, extension periods, and fees are subject to change by the office of the Immigration Bureau"

Pay Bt.1M then lose the visa priveledges some time later. Perhaps not the solution I was hoping for.

Guess I'll have to go the investment route, but so far, all I have met are barriers and difficulties buying goverment bonds.

Though full of hassles of it's own, the fixed deposit at government bank is a lot easier than govm't bonds. Try that.

[Nikkijah]

I have a non immigrant B visa, the reason it was issued to me is because I have a child with a Thai lady - this is the one and only reason I got this type of visa, the reason I say this is because a lot of people are saying they have friends who have a wife and kids here etc etc, this means that a non imm b visa is available to all of them too, get them while you can...

Someone is going to tellme that the 'B' in 'non-immigrant B visa stands for business but whilst at the 'visa shop' in a well known location, my childs birth certificate was requested as the only form of document required for the visa, does this make sense??

[rainman]

Doesn't take long to put your passport in a fedex bag and call for a pickup.

???????????

i dont understand you ! post my passport thats illegal isnt it ?

Sorry I should be more clear, I'm talking about people who travel to Thailand as tourists more than 3 times in 90 days and will run into problems with entry permits.

Those people can still come to the Kingdom, by gaining a tourist visa at home before they come.

that's what i'm thinking it is, too. its a crackdown on the 30 day visa runners, not on the people getting tourist visas (valid for 3 months, after extension) with a trip to Malaysia or another country.