Why is that Thai schools pass every kid regardless of their ability/grades?

[Bangkok Barry]

Well, to start with not every Frang can teach but your correct about the students And example when I taught for 3 years here I caught a student cheating on a Mid-term and gave her a zero. The Thai teacher ask me to re-test and I refused. I taught what they call special classes which their Mother and Father spend extra money for this service and I taught English, Math, Science, Chemistry, Social Studies, Health, and O.T.

I was borne in the slums of South Phila. and I succeeded in many levels. The point is you compromise principle for a pay check, I did not. I've been a professional educator for 28 years around the world.

Thailand will pay the price. My best opinion would be to fire 50% of the old Thai teachers with more than ten years working. The world is changing but these old teachers are a hamper.

Teach your child at home.

I count seven grammar or punctuation or typing errors in this, although there may be more. It was hard to keep count. And you're an educator? Jeez! Unbelievable.

[MaeJoMTB]

MaejoMBT said, “Without IELTs you won't be going.

You won't get a VISA either.”

Smotherb said, “Just how many degress do you have my friend? Good grades gets acceptance to universities, combined with sufficient funds gets visas. Many schools provide the language training as part of the curricula.”

BudRight said, “This is not very honest. U.S. Universities do offer remedial English classes but never for credit towards a degree.”

So I am a liar? Didn't say the language training was for graduate credit, just part of the classes needed as prerequisites to meet academic requirements and earn the degree. The schools make extra money for the classes. It is a good business move.

Not a liar, just ignorant of the requirements for western university entrance.

If you can't show them the right IELTs qualification, you won't be accepted.

[MaeJoMTB]

Well, to start with not every Frang can teach but your correct about the students And example when I taught for 3 years here I caught a student cheating on a Mid-term and gave her a zero. The Thai teacher ask me to re-test and I refused. I taught what they call special classes which their Mother and Father spend extra money for this service and I taught English, Math, Science, Chemistry, Social Studies, Health, and O.T.

I was borne in the slums of South Phila. and I succeeded in many levels. The point is you compromise principle for a pay check, I did not. I've been a professional educator for 28 years around the world.

Thailand will pay the price. My best opinion would be to fire 50% of the old Thai teachers with more than ten years working. The world is changing but these old teachers are a hamper.

Teach your child at home.

I count seven grammar or punctuation or typing errors in this, although there may be more. It was hard to keep count. And you're an educator? Jeez! Unbelievable.

Yes, that was amusing.

[gandalf12]

It is the same in the Middle East were no one is allowed to fail. In Thailands case it is probably because it would cause a loss of face if they failed

[kerrysum]

Corruption..... Any questions?

[Inn Between]

Well, to start with not every Frang can teach but your correct about the students And example when I taught for 3 years here I caught a student cheating on a Mid-term and gave her a zero. The Thai teacher ask me to re-test and I refused. I taught what they call special classes which their Mother and Father spend extra money for this service and I taught English, Math, Science, Chemistry, Social Studies, Health, and O.T.

I was borne in the slums of South Phila. and I succeeded in many levels. The point is you compromise principle for a pay check, I did not. I've been a professional educator for 28 years around the world.

Thailand will pay the price. My best opinion would be to fire 50% of the old Thai teachers with more than ten years working. The world is changing but these old teachers are a hamper.

Teach your child at home.

I count seven grammar or punctuation or typing errors in this, although there may be more. It was hard to keep count. And you're an educator? Jeez! Unbelievable.

I can understand not worrying about being completely accurate when posting in a forum, but making so many basic errors then boasting about being "a professional educator for 28 years" isn't the best way to convince people of one's teaching ability, is it?

[maidee]

in that way, you have a lot of dropouts at 15-16 with not much education, that can go work in the factories for 300 baht

not too much brain, they have the thai soaps to keep their little mind busy

and booze, gambling & easy girls

so no need to revolt

and everything can stay the same

thai elite loves this

cheap slave labour

[KarenBravo]

Because actual knowledge isn't considered import, or, valued for itself.

It's the bit of paper that is the important bit as that will get you a job with money, which IS the important bit.

[thaipod]

And then there is cheating..

[pinkpanther99]

Corruption..... Any questions?

Yes, you're absolutely right and this is also a big part of it.

There's a major misconception that Thailand's poor educational standards are due to a lack of public spending and investment.

However, the education system in Thailand receives around US$16 billion of govt spending annually, which accounts for almost 20% of total spending, meaning it receives more govt money than any other sector.

This would suggest that the money is there but it just doesn't find its way to the areas that need it.

[pinkpanther99]

How the system works, or is meant to at least, is that students who fail subjects must then be given an opportunity to pass by their teacher. This usually involves doing some additional work of some kind (I've seen students doing manual labour, writing essays, writing lines, additional homework, special tutoring or taking re-tests). Once they complete the work, their grade is usually changed to 1.0, which everyone in Thailand recognizes as the equivalent of a failing grade.

Students who don't complete the additional work on time aren't allowed to progress to the next grade. Although in practice it just needs to be completed before they complete M3 or M6 (At least at my high school anyway). My wife's younger brother almost got caught out by this, whereby when he went to his graduation ceremony they just gave him an empty envelope as he still hadn't fixed his grade for 1 subject (But he fixed it before the deadline for M4 so hot his certificate later).

Many teachers do go easy on their students simply to avoid massive amounts of paperwork, I know I pass all students who have satisfactory attendance & have completed all assignments etc for this reason. Despite this I still fail a lot of students each semester, as many don't maintain 80% attendance.

The decent universities generally don't pass everyone, although many of the Rajabhats, lower quality universities & most of the private universities have a reputation of passing everyone. This reputation is so well known, that some job advertisements which require certain GPAs, will actually specify a higher GPA requirement if the applicants studied at x university.

Many westerners complain that students aren't held back if they fail. They sometimes are held back, but even in western countries you don't get held back simply for failing a subject.

I agree that many students pass when they should fail, but Thailand needs to take small steps. Simply failing 80% of all boys & 30% of all girls won't really achieve anything, instead they need to take small steps. Particularly as I believe that the students aren't the main cause of the problem, rather it's a combination of their teachers/teaching methods, parents, class sizes, school culture & of course the students themselves.

Another interesting post on the discussion.

When I was 'teaching' here, the Mattayom kids who failed were made to come back during the summer holidays and paint the perimeter fence of the school. For some of those kids this was the only time they had set foot on school premises all year.

[SlyAnimal]

Another interesting post on the discussion.

When I was 'teaching' here, the Mattayom kids who failed were made to come back during the summer holidays and paint the perimeter fence of the school. For some of those kids this was the only time they had set foot on school premises all year.

Painting might not be related to their academic studies, but as a punishment to provide them with motivation to try harder next year, it might work. Also it might actually be of some practical use to them in the future, since I doubt they're headed for university lol. Also despite "passing" M3, anyone who views their grades would know straight away that they were terrible students.

[uptheos]

That's why 7/11 asks for a degree.........everyone's got one.

The hi so Chinese gf who so many here seem to be with........have three!

Thai degrees aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

[jumbo]

How can a teacher fail a student who quite possibly knows more than he/she does? Students are learning more from the media and internet than they are learning in the classroom.

Really??

I think these so-called social media are just an additional disrutping factor to actually becoming a social person in the first place...

I call it a-social media...

If not sleeping at any given time of the day they have their pc-laptop-android-tablet-iphone in their face to 'learn' from line, apps, you tube and facebook??

Hahaha, you are a funny guy Tony..

If they were only learning from the internet and the media I would give them all a free tablet, ahhh, they done that already....

the wife's family is falling apart over posts on facebook, it is unbelievable....they treat it like a seriously acceptable means of communication...

should have showed them the social network, but since there is no real hi-so cheating villain (f/m) starring in this movie they will loose interest quickly

[louse1953]

Why is that Thai schools pass every kid

It's American-ness. "Social promotions." and handing out grades to keep everyone happy.

According to Ed Week, social promotion is defined as the practice of passing students along from grade to grade with their peers even if the students have not satisfied academic requirements or met performance standards at key grades.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/franchesca-warren/social-promotion-is-not-a_b_5896120.html

And it's not just in primary schools

EASTON, PA.Pennsylvania graduate student Megan Thode wasn't happy about the C-plus she received for her internship, saying the mediocre grade kept her from getting her desired degree and becoming a licensed therapist.

Thode is suing her professor and Lehigh University in Bethlehem, demanding that her grade be changed. She's also seeking monetary damages.

Bowen Bethards, 17, was a sophomore in Peggy Carlock's chemistry class at Albany High School in Albany, Calif., outside of San Francisco, in the 2010-11 school year when she gave him the C+ grade at the center of the suit, ...

Bethards, in a lawsuit filed with his mother, Laureen, in Contra Costa County Superior Court last month, claims that he has suffered severe physical and emotional suffering, damage to his academic reputation, and diminished chances of getting into his college of choice because of the grade.

At least they gave them the marks they deseved.In Oz, kids go to the next grade regardless of marks.

[mercman24]

totally agree even the lady outside my condo selling street food has a degree, w.t.f absolute joke the education system here in LOS

[MaeJoMTB]

in that way, you have a lot of dropouts at 15-16 with not much education, that can go work in the factories for 300 baht

not too much brain, they have the thai soaps to keep their little mind busy

and booze, gambling & easy girls

Just to point out after M3, government schools chuck out 75% of their students.

Who then have the choice, pay to go to vocational school, or get a job.

If they are poor, they have no choice.

[Rhys]

Unfortunately, the young students grow up to be adults, but without ever experiencing failure.

So, when it comes to real life as adults, these kids find it very very difficult to deal with failure at work and in relationships.

End result ... big social problems. Just look at the social problems caused by the spoilt "Little Emperors" in the People's Republic of China.

Worked in China for a little spell enough to see these little punks acting out... not in my class.. however, i was only there for a short spell.. saw all that I needed.

Hard to believe, but schools, and some universities infact do fail students, if they don't perform. Nobody wants a stupid MD...and the Medical council does their best to ensure this.

Of course, they are given upteen reexams, even told what answer to mark..and bless their souls, they still fail..

Students are a reflect of a society's strenghts and weakeness... sadly the kids have learned.. by example, to not give a meconium below the chords spurt..

So be it..

[FredNL]

Educational system in Thailand.....

Even with a "Masters" degree they still think that if you turn on the lights when driving a car or motorcycle it effects the electrical bill at home !!!

Just show up, pay enough (ƒ*¢k / $*¢k the teacher(s)) and you will pass every education...

Edited May 22, 2015 by FredNL

[Tennisduck]

I don't understand either. I had my wifes daughter come to visit us in in Australia. She was going to university and asked me to check

some of her English assignments. I told her that her English work was that of a year 2/3 class in primary - serious it was terrible.

She told me that she had been studying English for 6 years in Primary and then another 6 years in High school and 2 years In University.

I was what the hell - when I spoke to her in English her mum tod me she didn't understand - I said I need a stiff drink.

her mum - my wife could speak and understand English soo much better then her daughter and she hadn't even taken any English classes.

Yes the system is weird and it benefits no one that they pass people who are no worthy to be passed- and the irony of it all is that if we fail

them then they blame the English teacher - haha very funny

If anyone can educate me then im all ears

[animatic]

Why is that Thai schools pass every kid

It's American-ness. "Social promotions." and handing out grades to keep everyone happy.

According to Ed Week, social promotion is defined as the practice of passing students along from grade to grade with their peers even if the students have not satisfied academic requirements or met performance standards at key grades.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/franchesca-warren/social-promotion-is-not-a_b_5896120.html

And it's not just in primary schools

EASTON, PA.Pennsylvania graduate student Megan Thode wasn't happy about the C-plus she received for her internship, saying the mediocre grade kept her from getting her desired degree and becoming a licensed therapist.

Thode is suing her professor and Lehigh University in Bethlehem, demanding that her grade be changed. She's also seeking monetary damages.

Bowen Bethards, 17, was a sophomore in Peggy Carlock's chemistry class at Albany High School in Albany, Calif., outside of San Francisco, in the 2010-11 school year when she gave him the C+ grade at the center of the suit, ...

Bethards, in a lawsuit filed with his mother, Laureen, in Contra Costa County Superior Court last month, claims that he has suffered severe physical and emotional suffering, damage to his academic reputation, and diminished chances of getting into his college of choice because of the grade.

Ameicanness my ass.

This a rare phenomenon there compared to here. Yes some districts get starved for cash or strangled for science fact based teaching rules, but i have yet to encounter a generalized pass them anyway or else culture in USA. I know people who were 'held back', and are the better for it.

That said my kid is in a english run international school ,where passing is merit based, advancement is based on work levels retained and questions are 100% encouraged and expected. We considered putting her in the local school for about 90 seconds total.

Edited May 22, 2015 by animatic

[smotherb]

MaejoMBT said, “Without IELTs you won't be going.

You won't get a VISA either.”

Smotherb said, “Just how many degress do you have my friend? Good grades gets acceptance to universities, combined with sufficient funds gets visas. Many schools provide the language training as part of the curricula.”

BudRight said, “This is not very honest. U.S. Universities do offer remedial English classes but never for credit towards a degree.”

So I am a liar? Didn't say the language training was for graduate credit, just part of the classes needed as prerequisites to meet academic requirements and earn the degree. The schools make extra money for the classes. It is a good business move.

Not a liar, just ignorant of the requirements for western university entrance.

If you can't show them the right IELTs qualification, you won't be accepted.

Well, ignorance may be the answer, but from whose perspective is the question.

The IELT is a UK certification, which may be similar to the TOEFL in the US, but there are many ways to qualify for university acceptance.

"Each university and college in the U.S has its own international student entry requirements – the minimum requirements for grades and standardised tests, e.g. the TOEFL and SAT, varies from institution to institution. Even within the same university there may be different admissions requirements, depending on which major you choose to study. Usually, the higher your grades and test scores, the better chance you have of getting into one of the top institutions in the U.S, eg. Cornell, Harvard."

https://www.studential.com/applying/studying-abroad/USA/entry-requirements

[Gonsalviz]

2 acronyms.

UN

NWO

[DavisH]

I was told by an employer in Singapore that Thai Uni degrees are not recognised outside Thailand

Rubbish. My wife has a degree and Masters from Thailand and enrolled in a PhD program in Australia. If the degree was not recognised, how did this happen? Someone I know graduated from Chula and works at Google now.

[KarenBravo]

I was told by an employer in Singapore that Thai Uni degrees are not recognised outside Thailand

Rubbish. My wife has a degree and Masters from Thailand and enrolled in a PhD program in Australia. If the degree was not recognised, how did this happen? Someone I know graduated from Chula and works at Google now.

Let me guess.................hi-so Thai-Chinese?

[smotherb]

I was told by an employer in Singapore that Thai Uni degrees are not recognised outside Thailand

Rubbish. My wife has a degree and Masters from Thailand and enrolled in a PhD program in Australia. If the degree was not recognised, how did this happen? Someone I know graduated from Chula and works at Google now.

Let me guess.................hi-so Thai-Chinese?

Let me guess . . . . you really need a bowl of milk?

[Gumballl]

In the US they have the "no child left behind" policy. Could it be that Thailand is emulating the US... or worse yet, the US is emulating Thailand?

[watso63]

I taught Business English Management subjects in the English language to Senior Thai Executives studying for their MBA's. Most of them could speak English well to poor, but almost all of them could not write. Either it was spelling, syntax, grammar errors at very basic levels. I taught at this MBA University in Bangkok for 6 years, and failed students who did not make my grading which had been approved by the Board.

But.......after failing them, I almost always was called to a meeting and politely told to "find enough marks" to pass the failures. If I could not, then I would probably have top find alternative work because I did not understand that degrees were 'big business'. If this university had poorer pass levels, then potential students went elsewhere!!

So it was work and pas everyone, or fail some of them and leave !!

So you became corrupt? How shocking??? Edited May 23, 2015 by watso63

[DavisH]

[quote name="Jaggg88" post="9430955" timestamp="1432203209" date="2015-05-21 17:


Shes far from hiso. Her parents were poor farmers and one 9 children. She studied hard as she didnt want to work in the fields.

I was told by an employer in Singapore that Thai Uni degrees are not recognised outside Thailand

Rubbish. My wife has a degree and Masters from Thailand and enrolled in a PhD program in Australia. If the degree was not recognised, how did this happen? Someone I know graduated from Chula and works at Google now.

Let me guess.................hi-so Thai-Chinese?

[zeichen]

Personally, I have always felt that if you fail a student, you have failed the student.

Passing every child doesn't mean that they all get high marks. A part of the problem that many of you fail to realize that it isn't about money it isn't about lack of standards it is simple culture. Most Asian cultures find it difficult to fail a student and have them repeat a year. The students you start with in school are your age, they grow with you. You are not friends with people 1 year old or 1 year younger. You can hang out with them but the term friend is age related not just about liking someone. Keeping a student back one grade makes it very hard on them for life. Yes, not having certain academic skills make it harder also but because students in the same class take care of each other for life, they protect and help the weaker students. Ask your students who is best at math and they will know. Ask them who is the best at anything or the worst and they will know. I had one student that had severe learning disabilities, but he had an amazing artistic ability. All the students clapped for him when he did something right. They helped him all the time studying and never made him feel bad. If he was left behind and had to repeat, he actually wouldn't learn anymore and then would be the oldest kid in a class of non peers who wouldn't protect him the same.

The only issue that I have in the system is like others have said is about abilities and skills. If students cannot read and are passed up through the system it gets harder for them to ever learn. If schools had special needs classes or teachers with training, there might be a difference. Identifying the root of the problem in a student's lack of ability and helping them is essential but labeling a kid special needs makes the family lose face here. So it is very difficult to get real help. This isn't a Thai problem this is common in most Asian countries. I have taught in Japan, Korea, Thailand and China and have been to many conferences and all teachers complain about these obstacles.

Another real issue is most teachers especially the untrained native teachers don't do anything in their class in regards to differentiation. Make things more challenging for advanced students in the same class by creating slightly stricter rubrics and require higher word count for writing assignments.

Grading students based on their individual level and not necessarily by some class score. For example you might have a class where all students but a few have high ability or are just better students. The lowest scores would fail by a scale system, however if those students were in another class with lower ability students, they actually might be the best students.